Sonic vs. Yellow Rat

[SoldierofGOD357]

Yo everyone, I appologize if this has been discussed already, but I've been having trouble fighting Pikachu. As a Sonic user I can put up a decent fight against most characters, but I've had the most difficulty fighting Pikachu, becasue of his quick and effective attacks.(Thunder, Skull Bash, fair, etc.) Any ideas how I can effectively fight Pikachu with a Sonic?

 

[shinhed-echi]

First of all, I feel your pain. Even though my first encounter against a Pika (with Sonic) I was like "No effing way..."

But I'm way too stubborn to accept bad matchups just because "all the cool kids are doing it". And I payed close attention to Pika users.


Most of the time, Pikachu users, when facing Sonic, will spam B. Then they expect you to rush in, and they'll do a Dsmash. If they get you completely, they'll follow with TWO Thunderbolts. And you just got kod in 3 moves... -_- Sucks, I know.

When facing Pikachu you gotta learn Sonic's BRAKE. Stop before running into him. This feint will tell you how Pikachu would've reacted. Then wait for his animation (dsmash most likely) to end, and here's where you fsmash him.

Pursue a lot, but feint a lot too. Pikachu user X expects Sonic to run right into his DSMASH.

Should he happen to smash you out of the platform, DON'T PANIC. You know he'll be waiting with B-down edgeguard. Use B (homing attack) to close in on the stage. Don't use your second jump unless you're falling to your doom. When Pikachu uses B-Down on the edge, you have three options.

1.- Use momentum with air-dodge.
2.- Wait while falling, then after the lightning disappears, use side-b to get away from him as fast as possible (before he makes his second thunderbolt).
3.- *UNTESTED* Use fair. I heard this move tends to reflect projectiles when timed right.


Other general tips.

- Spam FTILT.
- Feint a lot. VSDJ following a dair.
- Pursue in air. Pikachus that use Down B on air, don't like the lightning stalling them. Sonic's fast enough to narrowly avoid the lightning, and close in on Pika with Homing.


These are just some tips. It's all about mindgames really. Pikachu matchups are still a nightmare.. But now I can manage.

 

[ky72x]

Sorry Ethan, I know I can be a pain using Pikachu.

Shinhed's advice should really help you out. Use the brake more, and try not to get caught in the dmash/thunder/thunder combo.

Looking forward to facing you next week after you get back from camp.

 

[IceDX]

Use MindGames and then Fsmash!!

till this happens:

 

[AgentAO]

Coincidence, my first new youtube Brawl video is against a pikachu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC0_Tgl3Gec

He's far from the best, but I still had a problem against him. I honestly hate pikachu.

My advice to you, from what I gleaned in that match:

Avoid using dashes too much, his B will cancel them. Avoid the downsmash, use TONS of fakes, try to combo him up and off the screen. Its a hard match-up, that's for sure. Also, if you can figure out your opponent, trick him into using down-B where it looks like he can hit you, but you can easily avoid it. Then punish him. I'm not sure if stutter step lets you get into the down smash or out-range the forward smash, but if it does, use it. Also, shield grabbing seems to have worked nicely in my match, so I think I can recommend it.

 

[Onomanic]

First of all, I feel your pain. Even though my first encounter against a Pika (with Sonic) I was like "No effing way..."

But I'm way too stubborn to accept bad matchups just because "all the cool kids are doing it". And I payed close attention to Pika users.


Most of the time, Pikachu users, when facing Sonic, will spam B. Then they expect you to rush in, and they'll do a Dsmash. If they get you completely, they'll follow with TWO Thunderbolts. And you just got kod in 3 moves... -_- Sucks, I know.

When facing Pikachu you gotta learn Sonic's BRAKE. Stop before running into him. This feint will tell you how Pikachu would've reacted. Then wait for his animation (dsmash most likely) to end, and here's where you fsmash him.

Pursue a lot, but feint a lot too. Pikachu user X expects Sonic to run right into his DSMASH.

Should he happen to smash you out of the platform, DON'T PANIC. You know he'll be waiting with B-down edgeguard. Use B (homing attack) to close in on the stage. Don't use your second jump unless you're falling to your doom. When Pikachu uses B-Down on the edge, you have three options.

1.- Use momentum with air-dodge.
2.- Wait while falling, then after the lightning disappears, use side-b to get away from him as fast as possible (before he makes his second thunderbolt).
3.- *UNTESTED* Use fair. I heard this move tends to reflect projectiles when timed right.


Other general tips.

- Spam FTILT.
- Feint a lot. VSDJ following a dair.
- Pursue in air. Pikachus that use Down B on air, don't like the lightning stalling them. Sonic's fast enough to narrowly avoid the lightning, and close in on Pika with Homing.


These are just some tips. It's all about mindgames really. Pikachu matchups are still a nightmare.. But now I can manage.

Lol exactly. DI right after the Dsmash. If not, Pika is going to use Thunder to destroy you. Works best at high percents. Pika is my third main.

 

[Tenki]

bait with movements and cancels.

It's been mentioned before, but Sonic outprioritizes most of Pikachu's aerials, so in an air vs air battle, Sonic will win. F-air outprioritizes thunderbolts altogether, and side/down-B tend to clang or eat projectiles (at least in the air).

But Pikachu will try to get to the ground, so to counter the problem with grounded Pikachu, you'll have to rely on baits.

Towards the end ofPikachu's D-smash, you can actually hit Pikachu out of it, so you can do some baits with move cancels, like run > charge side-B for a few frames > cancel and prepare a counter attack for d-smash, or ASC cancel.

Also, as stated in Kuja's guide, don't forget you can use Homing Attack to punish laggy moves, like if Pikachu starts to spam neutral B, jump and do a quick HA. If you wanna bait a D-smash, do a jump at him, and stop the momentum with a Homing Attack. Some Pikachus will reflexively do a no-charge dsmash, so you can delay HA so it hits him during his d-smash's vulnerability frames.

Just be careful and try not to reflexively use springs to escape Pikachu juggles, or if you do it on purpose, be ready to airdodge thunders.

@.@ yeah, you basically have to camp grounded Pikachu and be aggressive vs aerial Pikachu.

If he does Thunder while you're on the ground, run, and slide a shield into him (neutralizes Thunder) and grab him.

Basic Pikachu should be no problem. However, I have no answer to Pikachu who know how to use QAC just yet :[

PS, if you get caught in Dsmash, tap up and C-stick in rapid succession and you'll be free.

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

I hate the rat. My friend mains Pikachu, and he constantly follows the pattern already explained.

Draw in-D smash-Launch-Rain death upon me from the heavens-Repeat

It annoys me, and That's No Good.

 

[SoldierofGOD357]

Thanks for the imput everyone. I'll try that on some of my friends when I get the chance.

 

[Greenstreet]

Use MindGames and then Fsmash!!

till this happens:

i am so saving that image icedx...
i agree that this is a really mega hard matchup tho. i pwn my mate with every character until he got to pika... but with the use of the thread i shud do better.

1 thing i learnt is run in and shield the dsmash then just a,a,a, it to rack up a bit of damage (coz sometimes they will have time to shield the fsmash)
but yer.. avoid lightning at all cost and play a little defensive (not too much or he'll spam bolts), just enuff so u pik ur attacks well and mostly avoid his.

 

[OwL]

PS, if you get caught in Dsmash, tap up and C-stick in rapid succession and you'll be free.

Elaborate please.

C-Up?

Or Up + C-Anywhere?

 

[Tenki]

Elaborate please.

C-Up?

Or Up + C-Anywhere?

C-up is generally the 'smash' input: (direction tap+attack)

Tapping in a direction at the same time you get hit is called SDI (smash DI), and it 'jerks' you in the direction you tap. If you tap both the C-stick and the control stick, you're basically doing it at double the speed, so it's easier to get out.

 

[gojira345]

I've found it helps to be about 1 to 2 Sonics away, and just jab him for his mistakes, ftilt during his attack lag if he smashes, or dtilt if he short hops, as it ducks under bair and fair and if he lands in front of you, it's possible to get 2 in before he knows what 's going on. NEVER FSMASH. It seems dsmash works well if he approaches from the air, and they like to roll, so use it then too.

Dsmash also does something else that is very important, often puts him offstage. If he's offstage that is the best chance you have if he ends up at a low angle. Try to bair/fair, even if he uses over b, as you are fast enough to hit him.

Never make it an air battle, and throw in homing if you know he will fsmash, or even mid thunder, to hit him afterwards. I'll repeat...air battle equals Pikachu wins. Your spin is not useless.Approach with it during a smash or as he comes down on a platform. The only time this should be an aerial battle is if you nail him with uair, and immediatley know you can spring, uair and KO before he can nair/dair/thunder.

Sorry if that doesn't work for you, but it does for me. I hardly ever sheildgrab the **** thing, because he pokes sheilds so well and unless it's bair he can immediatley go into jab or something else....ugh.

 

[MalcolmM]

Pikachu is really this troublesome?

He has two approaches...his fair and his bolts.

His grab range is very small and his dash grab animation is so laggy if he misses its comparable to bowser.

The QAC can't lead into anything that is a kill move (below like 160%) besides thunder...and thunder is nowhere near instant. you have quite a bit of time to react.

His dash attack is all around bad.

His bair is useless....as is his ftilt.

He has less range than sonic with the exception of his fsmash, so how can you never shield grab him?

His once insanely beast upsmash in melee is now nothing more than average.

His downsmash recieved alot of hype when the game first came out, but in all honesty the move can be DI'd so it has no follow up OR it can be SDI'd out of completely .

If you shield the Dsmash and angle your shield down it will not poke, not to mention the whole downsmash animation is not a hitbox. The end of it is just for show and you have time to shield drop F-smash pikachu before its over.

In all honesty, hes a chip damage character with like 4 kill moves that become insanely unreliable the more famliar the person is with playing against pikachu. I think you just need to focus more on how your friend is killing you....and if its with this "THUNDER COMBO" then you need to work on DI and what you can improve on in the gameplay mechanics, before wondering what sonic can do against pikachu. Pikachu is basically a giant beginner course in smash....he teaches you how to air dodge how to SDI how to DI and how to perfect shield. once you get these 4 things down...he becomes severely nerfed.

Edit: and jabs are not faster than sonic's shield grab, so grab instead of jab. If you wanna jab then pummel them once you get the grab. The upthrow is 11%...sonic's whole jab combo is like 9 =/

 

[Pero]

nicely put MalcomM you said what I was thinking about pika. I agree with you, I dont face many pika's but the friend I play uses him well. And I dont seem much a problem.

 

[Greenstreet]

i vs'd my pikachu mate today and one 4/5 matches and the ones i won were by a fair bit.. anyway the key (as obvious as it sounds) is play smart. only take hits in pikachus lag if u can. another problem i used to have is rolling into his dsmash but now i fake it everynow and then by just shielding... he does his dsmash and i charge up my fist and wait till he is hittable. other than that i have one more point....

TILTS ARE LEGENDARY.. u cant successfully fmash a pikachu thundering often (on the spot thunder btw) because he will shield as soon as he can and ur smash is to slow. but ur ftilt is not. yay i pwned up with that as well as punishing him wen he thunders in the air...

other stuff...
across b to aerial combos works well as long as u throw in a homing device sneak attack to shake em up every now and then..
thats just wat worked for me. was a fun match up this way