Sonic The Hedgehog Mafia - Who lives happily ever after in the Land of the Sky?

[Rockin]

I also like the case made by Sir, but I also like Sold's response to it. Eh...I gotta look into it a bit more.

I wish Chibo can comment more on the issue. Out of all, he's one of the three I can't quite put my head into (the other two being Swords and Zac).

 

[DtJ S2n]

Just droppin' by to say what's up.

I shouldn't have even posted a defense, I shoulda just told you all to go meta me lol. I'm hitting 100% my townie play this game, serious lol.

I might make an offense sometime? I guess it's my responsibility to at this point.

 

[CT Chia]

Will be posting on this tomorrow, been catching up on work before I leave for MLG Raleigh and haven't had much time to read mafia

 

[UTDZac]

Sold, why do you say you shouldn't have posted a defense? Was it just a waste of time for you to type up all that... and for us to read it? Almost sounds like you're giving up already.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Only responding to what I feel needs to be responded to; everything else I am fine with.

I'll answer with "probably" to Chibo and Zac, and I'd be like "woah, no way" if there wasn't scum on the D1 Kirby wagon.

Well, if you're sure that there was scum on the Kirb wagon, then you're sure that one of Chibo or Zac (or me) is scum. Not "probably".

yay semantics

But I think this question is for everyone.

@Everyone, considering that we now know that Kirbyoshi is scum (and a bomb), and also keeping in mind the NK decisions up til now, what does everyone think of the likelihood of absolutely no scum being on the Kirbyoshi wagon D1? The wagon consisted of rPSI, ChiboSempai, UTDZac, TigerWoods, and Sir Bedevere (me).

I don't know which period of time you're referencing, but I probably covered it above.

You did, but for further clarification:

The reason you defended Kirb D1 (aside from thinking the wagon was scummy) was that you were more concerned with going after weaker, lurkier players, rather than follow scum/town reads? And D2 you did not defend Kirb because you held greater importance in scum/town reads at that time, and Kirb was amongst your scum reads?

joke defense

wat wat

I shouldn't have even posted a defense, I shoulda just told you all to go meta me lol. I'm hitting 100% my townie play this game, serious lol.

Links? Also, links to games where you were scum?

But yeah, Unvote. I liked your answers. Interested in your case on Swords.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Now that you mention it bedivere, it seems to me that UTD has been flying under everyone's radars until now. I'd like to hear more from him right now.

 

[UTDZac]

How does one not "fly under the rader" ? I'm as active as the other participants of this game. I don't have time to comb through this thread over and over again to find inconsistencies. I did spent a good bit of time looking up the Sold case.

I didn't know 100% that Kirbyoshi was scum but he still seemed like a good choice to keep my vote on.

Also I think it's safe to assume that at least one person in "I didn't vote for Kirbyoshi" people is scum.

 

[UTDZac]

@Mod can you update the living/dead player list in the OP?

 

[DtJ S2n]

Well, if you're sure that there was scum on the Kirb wagon, then you're sure that one of Chibo or Zac (or me) is scum. Not "probably".

I mean, it could be you. You were there too. I honestly kinda wanna dismiss the D1 Kirby wagon as influence to who I think is scum though. At the time I would have bet my mafia life (and I pretty much almost did) that there was scum on that... but now I'm not so sure.

But I think this question is for everyone.

@Everyone, considering that we now know that Kirbyoshi is scum (and a bomb), and also keeping in mind the NK decisions up til now, what does everyone think of the likelihood of absolutely no scum being on the Kirbyoshi wagon D1? The wagon consisted of rPSI, ChiboSempai, UTDZac, TigerWoods, and Sir Bedevere (me).

Continuation of above. I think that it's negligible. At this point I think it's impossible to determine town or scum from the D1 wagon of Kirby, given how accepted it was for the most part. If I had to give an answer, I'd say I still feel pretty strong about there being scum on it. I don't like going back on my old reads, my intuition is pretty nice.

The reason you defended Kirb D1 (aside from thinking the wagon was scummy) was that you were more concerned with going after weaker, lurkier players, rather than follow scum/town reads? And D2 you did not defend Kirb because you held greater importance in scum/town reads at that time, and Kirb was amongst your scum reads?

Yeah, that exactly. It's a common trade-off, choosing a player who's not going to help as a lynch instead of choosing a suspect. Unless there's good reason on said suspect (and given it's D1), I usually prefer to go for option #1. Half of it is looking for scum trying to coast, or sneak by. It's easy for scum to coast D1 while everyone is still feeling each other out, and it gives them time to set-up how they wanna go about the rest of the game. Not saying this is always the case, but it's a strong trend.

wat wat

It was initially. I was originally going to say "Oh this is fun, let me answer with just quotes of my old posts!" since I felt they explained something you may have overlooked. Then I decided that would be a jerk-move and polished it up a bit. A misunderstanding in communication.

Links? Also, links to games where you were scum?

As if you should trust someone who claims their meta is town.
Mayfia!- Townie. Though this was with all my buds so I was kinda fooling around a lot.
Muppets- Townie. Perfect example. I replaced in late D2.
DBZ - Cop/Mafia Cop. I got yak'd N1 lol. I happened to be like, one out of 2 roles that if yak'd didn't have a role they could prove through night actions. I'm still a bit mad about this whole game, even though it was probably scum's favor anyways. .

It took me this long to realize I'm probably the easiest meta'd player on smashboards. Though I guess I consider myself more of an AiB mafiar, but whatever.

But yeah, Unvote. I liked your answers. Interested in your case on Swords.

Never said I would make a case on Swords. I'll look into it, but honestly at this point in the game, every single one of you makes me nervous.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Slow game is slow. Activity hazd stagnated. Let's get some moar activity guys!

@UTD ok, fair enough that you contributed part of the sold case, but how do i put this. You can be one of the most active players and never be scum.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Not V/LA, but I'm holding a smashfest today and I'm going to a (card) tournament tomorrow.

 

[Rockin]

I want to fairly bet that scum was on that wagon D1. It's a bomb, so I assume it's a perfect excuse for any to bus their partner.

also Zac, I don't think you have to be active to avoid going under the radar. I'm sure if people don't have much of mindset of where you're heading/not focusing on you, you can probably be forgotten. *shrugs*

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Sheesh, can we get mass prods for everyone? This is ridiculous! only 3 days until deadline and EVERYONE is lurking.

Vote: UTDZac to get the ball rolling.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

I mean, it could be you. You were there too. I honestly kinda wanna dismiss the D1 Kirby wagon as influence to who I think is scum though. At the time I would have bet my mafia life (and I pretty much almost did) that there was scum on that... but now I'm not so sure.

I earnestly think that there's something we can learn from studying the Kirb wagon as well as the NKs. Unless mafia didn't have much of a plan when they decided for NKs (except maybe "kill all the players who have shiny red names" lol) I don't think we should leave the Kirb wagon or the NKs out of the equation.

I'd still like everyone else to answer the question I posed, as well (Rockin, Sold, Zac, you've all already answered).

Continuation of above. I think that it's negligible. At this point I think it's impossible to determine town or scum from the D1 wagon of Kirby, given how accepted it was for the most part. If I had to give an answer, I'd say I still feel pretty strong about there being scum on it. I don't like going back on my old reads, my intuition is pretty nice.

Really? You think that we can't determine scum from looking at interactions between other players and a known scum? :/ Distancing and buddying are both tactics scum employs, and I'm pretty sure Kirb did both. If I have time either today or tomorrow (I'm busy both days, so I'll see what I can do lol) I'll dig up some stuff that I think is worth looking at. Hopefully we can come up with a lynch from that, because I really hate how we're so close to deadline with no clear lynch target and everyone's activity flatlining (though I can't really call myself innocent of that).

Yeah, that exactly. It's a common trade-off, choosing a player who's not going to help as a lynch instead of choosing a suspect. Unless there's good reason on said suspect (and given it's D1), I usually prefer to go for option #1. Half of it is looking for scum trying to coast, or sneak by. It's easy for scum to coast D1 while everyone is still feeling each other out, and it gives them time to set-up how they wanna go about the rest of the game. Not saying this is always the case, but it's a strong trend.

Alright, just wanted to make sure. That makes sense to me.

It was initially. I was originally going to say "Oh this is fun, let me answer with just quotes of my old posts!" since I felt they explained something you may have overlooked. Then I decided that would be a jerk-move and polished it up a bit. A misunderstanding in communication.

Ah, ok.

As if you should trust someone who claims their meta is town.
Mayfia!- Townie. Though this was with all my buds so I was kinda fooling around a lot.
Muppets- Townie. Perfect example. I replaced in late D2.
DBZ - Cop/Mafia Cop. I got yak'd N1 lol. I happened to be like, one out of 2 roles that if yak'd didn't have a role they could prove through night actions. I'm still a bit mad about this whole game, even though it was probably scum's favor anyways. .

I read both Mayfia and DBZ, but not Muppets yet (which sadly is the one that seems to be most inclined to prove your towniness LOL). Although I kinda forgot most of both games, so I'll end up having to re-read them all anyways. <_> Maybe I'll have time during the Night if I'm not lynched/Night doesn't end early/more bombs don't explode. >_>

Never said I would make a case on Swords. I'll look into it, but honestly at this point in the game, every single one of you makes me nervous.

I kinda took "offense" to mean "case", otherwise I'm not sure what you mean by "offense".

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@Everyone, considering that we now know that Kirbyoshi is scum (and a bomb), and also keeping in mind the NK decisions up til now, what does everyone think of the likelihood of absolutely no scum being on the Kirbyoshi wagon D1? The wagon consisted of rPSI, ChiboSempai, UTDZac, TigerWoods, and Sir Bedevere (me).

Ya mean this one?

It's gonna sound like mad WIFOM, but here's my opinion:

It can go either way. You can either look pro town, by manipulating your scum buddy's power and be on the wagon, waiting for the bomb to explode. OR, you can hop on another wagon, and wait for the obv scum buddy to get lynched the next day. It's a tuffie, for me.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Bedivere, i do think there is scum on the D1 kirb wagon, which is why i voted UTD.

 

[Rockin]

Bedivere, i do think there is scum on the D1 kirb wagon, which is why i voted UTD.

Can you explain why you feel Zac is scum?

 

[UTDZac]

Sorry guys I was away at a tourney yesterday. Still recovery now, have company over. I'll post again later tonight

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Can you explain why you feel Zac is scum?

Just flying under the radar in general. He hasn't really responded well enough to my vote, so i'm keeping it on there. It's possible to be the most active and yet contribute nothing at all.

 

[UTDZac]

And I haven't contributed anything?

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Nope, not really much at all.

 

[Rockin]

Just flying under the radar in general. He hasn't really responded well enough to my vote, so i'm keeping it on there. It's possible to be the most active and yet contribute nothing at all.

Wouldn't that mean Chibo falling into that catagory?

 

[UTDZac]

Ok swords you asked for it, so here it is...

Just got done re-reading the whole thread. I focused this time on reading Swords' posts. I really really do not like his play so far. Sure he may be active at posting, but he's also the most active unvote/voter out there. He's jumped from person to person way too many times. I'm also quite suspicious of why he left the Kirbyoshi wagon Day 2 even though he was one of the first people to vote for Kirbyoshi (first followers of the wagon).

GorditoBoy69 brought up a strong case against Swords earlier toDay that I didn't take much from at first, but after doing my re-read I completely agree with. I want to bring up the major points again:

#162

If you all lynch Kirbyoshi, I fully expect everyone on the wagon to step it up. I refuse to work with a town that has little discussion and few or no attacks.

Kirbyoshi lynch is weaksauce. Why do people not unvote? >.> He's at L-2 and from what's sold's written, i see no legitimate case against kirbyoshi whatsoever. Right now, tiger woods has been ultimately useless, his posts being major weaksauce. (P.S. I know he's at APEX, but he'll be back by tomorrow correct?)

Vote: Tigerwoods

Defending / Leaving the Kirbyoshi wagon.

#309

Claim seems believable right now, i'll unvote as scum commuter doesn't seem likely. Now....Vote:Chibo

He has contributed almost nothing all game, has been joking a lot, and has been throwing around his vote without any reasoning behind it.

Leaving the Kirbyoshi wagon again!

Unvote
Vote: SwordsRbroken

I'm unvoting Sold because I believe Swords to be the better pick as scum for toDay. Swords, by his definition, hasn't been flying "under the radar" but I think that's a false positive attribute. He brought it up to make himself look good.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Vote: SwordsRBroken

blah blah blah we need a lynch blah blah blah. Disgusting that this Day has dragged out this long and we've accomplished next to nothing. I'm going to make sure that doesn't happen toMorrow.

Anyway, just some things to add to the Swords/Kirb case:

@Swords: Why are you suspicious of Sir Bed for wanting to protect town from otherwise extremely easy deception?

Swords: My issue was that you were voting Sir Bed on the possibility that he was scum. Since there is an equally viable town reason for it, I see no reason whatsoever for the vote.

I just very seriously doubt that you did not see how it could work very well to town's advantage if he is town. Saying what Sir Bed said is a null-tell. I'm generating better, more useful discussion questioning you on it than you would have ever gotten questioning Sir Bed because I think you tried to mask that there was a town reason for saying what Bed said.

Unvote Chibo, Vote: SwordsRbroken

Swords, I never questioned whether or not there was a possible scum motive behind it. In fact, I clearly see that there is, potentially. However, it seems to me that you are the one doing the assuming when you jump to the conclusion that the reason why Bed said that is because he had that motive.

Simultaneous buddying with me (pseudo-defending me from Swords earlier suspicions) while also distancing himself from Swords. The entire argument between them might have been an act to make him look less scummy.

I agree. It could be WIFOM, but Swords was scummy yesterday, so...

Vote: SwordsRbroken

More distancing. I am convinced that they decided to have him bussed D2, so having Kirb say something like this that made no sense while distancing himself from Swords at the same time seems a pretty good way to make Swords look better.

But still IGMEOY Swords.

S'more distancing.

Vote: Kirbyoshi he's da scum.

Means VERY VERY little, but an RVS vote on a scummate is its own form of distancing. This honestly doesn't affect my opinion of Swords, but still worthy of some notice.

I don't really get why tigerwoods just voted for kirbyoshi. From what i see, kirbyoshi was trying to get some discussion started. Zac's vote reeks of Oh-my-gosh-you-suck. Making you defend yourself is not a bad thing. Anyone who votes someone else for making them defend himself is weak. unvote Vote: Zac

If scum did not plan on bussing Kirb D1, Swords' post here is confirmation of it. Defending Kirb while also putting pressure elsewhere.

This is what i don't get. You obviously don't see how this would have worked to his advantage if he was scum. Better more useful discussion? Please. Your "tells" on me are nothing except bull. you're trying to turn me pushing bedivere for his post talking about that into OMGOSH SWORDZ IS SCUM! You are just assuming that bedivere is definitely town, which is what i don't like. If you are lynched and flip scum, i would not be surprised if bedivere flipped scum too.

gogo gadget distancing

lol@bold. Swords would have known that Kirb was scum, and saying something like this sets up a mislynch after losing a scummate (though I doubt anyone would follow it just off this, but w/e). The reason I don't think Swords brought it up later is either that his scummates advised him against doing so, or that when Kirb wasn't lynched, other things happened that made him forget about it (since this post was made when pretty much everyone else was on the Kirb wagon).

yo Swords, I'm pretty sure Sold and Gordito are both after your head, so if your claim is worth anything at all (i.e. not Brownie Townie or Bulletproof Double-Voting Twilight-Vig), you should claim now to save us some time and give us any useful information you may have.

I want to prod everyone

 

[DtJ S2n]

I'm here. I read it.

I don't like that you use me and Gordito as leverage for forcing a claim like that, but with the ways its looking, that's probably the best idea for him.

Swords lynch is better than No lynch/Me lynch(dude I love myself) but I'm not convinced.
I'll contribute something in a bit I suppose.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

I don't like that you use me and Gordito as leverage for forcing a claim like that, but with the ways its looking, that's probably the best idea for him.

I was like "ughhhh this sounds weird someone's probably gonna call me out on this" when I was typing it, but I needed a reason to get him to claim ASAP and I wasn't sure if you/Gordito/anyone else would be online in time to even vote, since we effectively need to fit all the progress we should have made toDay into these last few days before deadline.

Swords lynch is definitely better than no lynch. ToMorrow's probably lylo if Swords isn't scum, and no lynching now will put us in mylo with one less flip than we should have had now, which means less information for us to base lynches on. And town-controlled flips are always better than scum-controlled flips.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Well... At least I didn't go unheard .

So, let me just get it straight:

*It's me, Bed, and UTD on the Swords lynch.
*That puts him at L-1.
*We need to get a claim out of him.

They all lead into the next point lol. But I'm hoping Swords' inactivity in one game that I'm in doesn't determine the outcome of Swords' activity in this one.

Oh, and if it isn't ovbious:

CHIBO NEEDS TO PUT HIS F***IN SAY.

 

[UTDZac]

Chibo/Rockin, are you for or against Sword's lynch today? (not saying you have to vote, just asking) Do either of you think he's scum?

 

[Rockin]

Chibo/Rockin, are you for or against Sword's lynch today? (not saying you have to vote, just asking) Do either of you think he's scum?

Eh...

I was at first against it cause Kirbyoshi (scum) was after Swords again and again. Looking at the case seems decent, but I don't fully buy into it (mainly cause he distanced himself from a bomb). I would vote for him if we not nothing else going (which seems to be the case atm).

I feel we shouldn't go for a claim, mainly cause anyone can claim anything and it'll just be a problem on our end with WIFOM (not to mention it may almost be as useless as nameclaiming. Let's not forget that several bought the commuter claim). If we're going to lynch someone scummy, then we should do it. (let

I'll drop hammer if everyone is cool with it.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

No, we should let Swords claim before hammer. If he claims doc/bulletproof townie/cop/whatever, we're still going to kill him, because we don't want WIFOM hanging around us (that was my incentive to not believe Kirb's claim). But if he's the cop, we get valuable information of who not to lynch in the Days to come, or if he's some other information role that Xiivi might have thrown in, we get whatever info that role had as well. There is no reason not to allow someone to claim when there is no disadvantage in doing so (except having to wait for them to claim I guess <_>).

And uhhh, I thought it was L-2? I see only me and Zac voting Swords. No one vote Swords yet regardless.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Okay. Ur right Bed. I'm surprised I don't have my vote up lol. But he's L-1 in spirit.

But Rockin has a point: WIFOM.

Why would a SwordsRScum not want to claim cop? It'll be able to drag the s*** out of the WIFOM. Like, per example, he can claim cop and say that he found Chibo as scum. What happens there?

Thinking about it made me realize: It IS a bad idea to have him claim. Or at least, to believe a PR claim.

 

[UTDZac]

GorditoBoy69, here's an example scenario:

He claims cop.
He tells us that Chibo is town.
We lynch him toDay (we do this regardless).

If after we lynch he shows up as town, then we can take his word for truth.
If he flips as scum, then we just ignore w/e he said. He could be telling the truth or not, there's no way to know.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

That makes sense.

I guess it's up to him to either realize that he's getting lynched, and to help town in whatever way we can (if he even is town), or to throw a b****fit and get lynched.

Point is Swords, you're getting lynched. If you wanna claim and help out, please do.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Deadline has been set for August 31, 2010 11:59PM EST.

It takes 4/7 to lynch!

Day 3 Vote Count 1:​

GorditoBoy69: (0)
Rockin: (0)
Sir Bedevere: (0)
Sold2: (0)
SwordsRbroken: UTDZac, Sir Bedevere (

)
UTDZac: SwordsRbroken (

)
vVv ChiboSempai: (0)
Not Voting: GorditoBoy69, Rockin, Sold2, vVv ChiboSempai (

)

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Don't ask me why xiivi made Tails be a Brownie townie.

Rockin, chibo would fall under that category as well.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

GorditoBoy69, here's an example scenario:

He claims cop.
He tells us that Chibo is town.
We lynch him toDay (we do this regardless).

If after we lynch he shows up as town, then we can take his word for truth.
If he flips as scum, then we just ignore w/e he said. He could be telling the truth or not, there's no way to know.

You seem to be for my lynch all of a sudden when you hadn't said much about lynching me until i was suspicious of you.

 

[CT Chia]

Ok I'm back and reading now from wherever I left off

 

[CT Chia]

Sooooo down for a Swords lynch

Vote Swords

He's still jumping on easy cases it seems and even though it could be seen as wifomy, he says he thinks scum was on the kirbyo lynch and he conveniently wasn't. the way he went about it really makes me think he's using it as an excuse to lynch someone and not look at him as he went about it somewhat abruptly and is voting UTD because of it. Someone presented the question and he took it on his own to vote UTD based off of it which doesn't really make sense without much discussion.

Let's face it, whenever Kirbyo is scum it's very easy to bus him as other scum because of how poorly he plays as scum. The same thing happened in MXC Mafia. However kirbyo didn't do anything blatantly obvious in this game to get him lynched like he did with the meta read in the MXC EC1. The lynch was still kind of haphazard and I don't think it's conclusive to say that scum was or was not on it, however I'm leaning towards I'm not. I know I'm not scum of course yada yada yada, and if anyone else wants a reason to think so, I had been gunning for kirbyo since day 1, and specifically tried to get people to switch from tiger woods to kirbyo as I was picking up subtle reads on him from the start. im also a little less inclined to believe utd is scum atm from what happened at the very beginning of the game with him voting the innocent child lol. it obv obv obv doesn't clear him but it puts me slightly more towards the ok side atm.

despite there being little content from what I had to catch up on, I don't see anyone else being the play today. SwordsRgone

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Well, there's nothing much else to do today but get us down to one scum...

Vote: SwordsRBroken

Chibo, I never really thought you were scum.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

EBWOP:

Well, there's nothing much else to do today but get the scum out...

Vote: SwordsRBroken

Chibo, I never really thought you were scum.

Talking-to-my-friend-at-the-same-time-and-got-mixed-up-with-words johns.