Sonic the Hedgehog; a 2nd series rep

[Jabejazz]

I want Sanic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo_gJwXxshQ

 

[final lap]

Doesn't work.
Do you notice that he has to grab something right above him? Eggman can't reach out in front of him while in either mech.

You may have a point but I think it is exceedingly more likely it could work. He could lift himself out of his mech a little to bend down and reach things. Not to mention he can scrunch up the legs of his mech to lower himself which I think he does in SA2 anyway.

His mech has a punching glove as well, that can be used as well. (it doesn't have to follow SA2 to the letter. Considering that any other machine would have been made up for SSB anyway)

Your argument is almost like me saying Kirby/Jigglypuff/Toad wouldn't work in Smash because their arms are too short.

As for Eggman being too large, the SA2 mech is very small. It's probably only an inch taller than Eggman on foot. Even if Eggman gets added to SSB4, he wouldn't be the largest character. Bowser would still be larger, probably much larger. When I think of Eggman in SSB I think King Dedede, Donkey Kong, King K Rool, i.e. a character class that's larger than average but by no means the largest character in the game.

And all this in the midst of Ridley having support for SSB4?! Saying Eggman is too big is just plain.. baffling.

Top Ten Best Eggman/Robotnik Plans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbPXE0OCfMs#t=9m18s

^Not that big now is it? Oh and he is reaching his arm out, isn't that nice. x)

 

[Deleted member]

Kirby/Jigglypuff/Toad use rubber cartoon physics, so they can't really be used as a point.

As for "lifting himself out of his mech a little to bend down and reach things" or "scrunching up the legs of his mech to lower himself", that would be way too much hassle to make viable within Smash to the point that it would simply not be done at all.
Which is why, once again, using the Fighters mech if he has to use a mech is the best route. And it would fit best, as Sonic's fighting style is taken from Fighters as well. 'Twould also take the least amount of modifications to make work.

As for size, you are mistaken.

Eggman may be tall, but I'm pretty sure he's not "a head" shorter than that.
The mech also has far more width than Bowser does, which overall contributes to size.
Simply put, with its design, it is unsuitable and unfeasible for Smash, something Sakurai looks into.

 

[final lap]

As for "lifting himself out of his mech a little to bend down and reach things" or "scrunching up the legs of his mech to lower himself", that would be way too much hassle to make viable within Smash to the point that it would simply not be done at all.

You're maybe making it sound more complicated than it is. Eggman's walker scrunching its legs is no different from any character squatting or bending their knees.
And Eggman's walker is kinda supposed to be comical like that. It even has a punching glove. And Eggman always looked like he would have a tough time squeezing into the cockpit of his eggmobile.

Which is why, once again, using the Fighters mech if he has to use a mech is the best route.

He has to use sort of mech assuming he is in the game. (maybe a full suit body armor like Lex Luthor) The idea of him not using one is obviously absurd, so let's not even go there.

As for size, you are mistaken.

Eggman may be tall, but I'm pretty sure he's not "a head" shorter than that.

I have to wonder if maybe I'm just mentally overestimating how big Bowser is. It's the only explanation.
If you put Bowser in that pic I'm inclined to think he will be at least slightly bigger than Eggman. Just slightly? Right?
Mind you, Sonic and his friends are around Mario sized, i.e. less than human height. Eggman on foot would still be at least 1.5 times their height.

Simply put, with its design, it is unsuitable and unfeasible for Smash, something Sakurai looks into.

You're telling this to someone who thinks Ridley is too big to be in smash. Believe me, if Eggman's walker is in fact too big or too radical for SSB then I don't even really want it anymore. I simply think that isn't the case, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

For future reference. Bowser is bulkier and wider than Eggman. Eggman is taller.

 

[Deleted member]

"Too big" is not the issue though.
The issue goes more than just size (which is a poor reason against Ridley). It is simply not feasible the way it is designed. It would require quite a bit of a Smash-original rehaul at which point it's not even the same vehicle.
Unlike the Fighters mech. All that needs is a "Modernization" to go along with Modern Eggman. Such "Modernization" can even incorporate the Vulcan Cannon, Homing Missile, and Hovering of the Egg Walker to reference it.

Also bear in mind that Bowser goes through many sizes (even some that would make the "too big" Ridley crap himself). While Bowser and Eggman share a size in the Olympics, it doesn't mean Bowser will ALWAYS be only as tall as mechless Eggman.

I also don't see the big problem with him fighting outside a mech, considering we got Captain Falcon outside of his racecar and Fox and pals out of their ships.

 

[final lap]

"Too big" is not the issue though.
The issue goes more than just size (which is a poor reason against Ridley). It is simply not feasible the way it is designed. It would require quite a bit of a Smash-original rehaul at which point it's not even the same vehicle.
Unlike the Fighters mech. All that needs is a "Modernization" to go along with Modern Eggman. Such "Modernization" can even incorporate the Vulcan Cannon, Homing Missile, and Hovering of the Egg Walker to reference it.

For all intents and purposes I would consider "modernization" the same as a "smash original rehaul".

But I have no problem with either.

I also don't see the big problem with him fighting outside a mech, considering we got Captain Falcon outside of his racecar and Fox and pals out of their ships.

That's not even comparable.
Fox was on-foot in Adventure and Assault, and they used weapons including blasters. But even if those didn't happen it would still not be comparable to Eggman.
Falcon is seen out of his vehicle in the SNES comic. Plus his name is Captain Falcon and he's sort of a badass masked vigilante or super hero.

Eggman is a fat guy behind a control panel.
If Dr Wily was in SSB, should be fighting on-foot too? Should he falcon-punching people?

Stylistically, Cpt Falcon is like a mexican luchador. Whereas Eggman is more of a circus ringleader.

 

[Neanderthal]

I'd love to see Tails as a playable. He's the second most iconic from the series.

He'd be like an aerial version of sonic.

Possibly could be a Luigified clone of him.
But holding jump after his second jump would cause him to fly around spinning his tail like R.O.B.
Definitely the same side B as sonic that he can do from flying.
They would need to give him his own Up B though.



Robotniik/Eggman would be pretty cool but probably not worth the time to make a third party villain. Meh to Shadow, but he can be a Sonic clone which doesn't take up too much time so I guess he's more likely.

 

[Deleted member]

Fox was on-foot in Adventure and Assault, and they used weapons including blasters. But even if those didn't happen it would still not be comparable to Eggman.

Those games came after his debut in Smash. And Eggman has been playable outside a mech.

Falcon is seen out of his vehicle in the SNES comic. Plus his name is Captain Falcon and he's sort of a badass masked vigilante or super hero.

He never fights outside his vehicle in the games, however. And the one thing he did do outside it in the comics is shoot a gun. It's been three Smashes already, and he does not shoot a gun. Example invalid. Even more invalid because we see Eggman as a masked luchador (El Gran Gordo) in comics.
Using names also doesn't help. We got Dr. Robotnik. That gives off the feeling of a robot man (though we know he's not, but then again, Falcon is neither a masked vigilante nor a super hero). We also have Dr. Eggman, a name that sounds more like it would be for some egg-based science guy.

Eggman is a fat guy behind a control panel.

Who has been shown great feats outside a control panel. He's got speed that somehow beats Sonic's, and strength comparable to that of Knuckles.

If Dr Wily was in SSB, should be fighting on-foot too? Should he falcon-punching people?

Dr. Wily has shown no feats on his own like Eggman.

Stylistically, Cpt Falcon is like a mexican luchador. Whereas Eggman is more of a circus ringleader.

The irony is, Eggman's been a luchador, while Falcon is neither super hero nor vigilante. Just an expert racer and bounty hunter (which DOES NOT translate into fiery bird punches).

Here is El Gran Gordo, by the way:

 

[final lap]

He never fights outside his vehicle in the games, however.

That was not the point. The point is that for Captain Falcon to fight outside of the vehicle, would not be entirely out of character.
Furthermore unlike Cpt Falcon, Eggman has tons of appearances outside of racing games, and the vast majority of the time if not all the time, he does not fight with his hands and fists, but rather rides a machine. When he is not in a machine, he's completely vulnerable, and usually only happens if Sonic isn't around.

Even more invalid because we see Eggman as a masked luchador (El Gran Gordo) in comics.

comics = not canon
I'm actually disgusted the comics would even be brought up here. Why would that even be relevant on the matter of SSB versions of characters?

Using names also doesn't help. We got Dr. Robotnik. That gives off the feeling of a robot man (though we know he's not, but then again, Falcon is neither a masked vigilante nor a super hero).

Robotnik sounds like an evil genius who hides behind a control panel and commands robots to do his bidding.

also robotnik is polish for "worker"

Dr. Wily has shown no feats on his own like Eggman.

Eggman has shown no feats either that didn't involve machines, aside from running his fat *** away from Sonic in Sonic 2. Funny though that should be used as an example of how he would make a good fighter.

In the endings, Wily bows in front of Mega Man pleading for forgiveness. He must be strong to be able to do pushups like that! Put that man in SSB4 straight up, no machines needed.

The irony is, Eggman's been a luchador, while Falcon is neither super hero nor vigilante. Just an expert racer and bounty hunter (which DOES NOT translate into fiery bird punches).

bounty hunter = vigilante.
Furthermore to be a bounty hunter in F-Zero universe, you're obviously hiding some serious strength/talent/powers, otherwise you'd be dead. Just.. have you seen F-Zero's rogues gallery?? What Captain Falcon has to go up against is about as bad as what Eggman has to deal with. Except that with Eggman, it's largely established exactly how he deals with them all the time, and it's by surrounding himself with robots, and piloting machines.

 

[volbound1700]

Agreed that Eggman has to be in a mech. Sorry guys I haven't been at home all week so not able to post Tails moveset, maybe Saturday or Sunday.

 

[Jabejazz]

Out of character

Moot point. Doesn't prevent GDubs from fighting, a perfectly pacifist assumed character. And as much as his moves are jokish, Phoenix Wright is in MvC. The same could be done with Robotnik, or make him use gadgets to fight. Make him throw robots at his opponent like TripleD throws Dees and Doos. Everything is perfectly possible, just as downsizing his mecha if that's what needed to make him fit into the game.

However...

The irony is, Eggman's been a luchador, while Falcon is neither super hero nor vigilante. Just an expert racer and bounty hunter (which DOES NOT translate into fiery bird punches).

Sup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa5OkdP3-r8

 

[volbound1700]

I think if any Sonic character should be in the next Smash it should be Amy Rose or Big the Cat

 

[Jabejazz]

I think if any Sonic character should be in the next Smash it should be Amy Rose or Big the Cat

I'm down with Amy, making a moveset around her hammer sounds fine. Knuckles is what I'm hoping for, should they even include more 3rd party characters.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

comics = not canon
I'm actually disgusted the comics would even be brought up here. Why would that even be relevant on the matter of SSB versions of characters?

.

You just brought up the comics for your argument for Falcon. You're contradicting yourself.

 

[Jabejazz]

You just brought up the comics for your argument for Falcon. You're contradicting yourself.

No, I'm not, if you looked at who posted what. The anime is the only instance outside of Smash where Falcon uses his punch. Canonicity is irrelevant in this case, all it shows is that C.Falcon is a powerful being outside of his Blue Falcon. Just like Sonic is just as fast as he should in the comics, whether it's canon or not.

 

[FalKoopa]

When Smash bros. is itself not canon, it is unnecessary to bother about which is canon and which isn't.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

No, I'm not, if you looked at who posted what. The anime is the only instance outside of Smash where Falcon uses his punch. Canonicity is irrelevant in this case, all it shows is that C.Falcon is a powerful being outside of his Blue Falcon. Just like Sonic is just as fast as he should in the comics, whether it's canon or not.

I was talking to final lap dude.

Read who the quote is quoting next time. ;P

 

[Deleted member]

Sup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa5OkdP3-r8

Release Date of Nintendo All Star! Dairantō Smash Brothers: January 21, 1999.
Final Episode of F-Zero Falcon Densetsu: September 28, 2004.

Why people think the Falcon Punch came from the anime of all things confuses me.

 

[Jabejazz]

I was talking to final lap dude.

Read who the quote is quoting next time. ;P

I see no mention of F-Zero comic in his post though, which is why I suggested you were mis-referring to me. Everything seems spot-on accurately related to the actual video game franchise.

Release Date of Nintendo All Star! Dairantō Smash Brothers: January 21, 1999.
Final Episode of F-Zero Falcon Densetsu: September 28, 2004.

Why people think the Falcon Punch came from the anime of all things confuses me.

The anime is the only instance outside of Smash where Falcon uses his punch. Canonicity is irrelevant in this case, all it shows is that C.Falcon is a powerful being outside of his Blue Falcon. Just like Sonic is just as fast as he should in the comics, whether it's canon or not.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I see no mention of F-Zero comic in his post though, which is why I suggested you were mis-referring to me. Everything seems spot-on accurately related to the actual video game franchise.

"Falcon is seen out of his vehicle in the SNES comic. Plus his name is Captain Falcon and he's sort of a badass masked vigilante or super hero." Tried directly quoting the link but it didn't work for some reason.
There ya go.

 

[Deleted member]

That was not the point. The point is that for Captain Falcon to fight outside of the vehicle, would not be entirely out of character.
Furthermore unlike Cpt Falcon, Eggman has tons of appearances outside of racing games, and the vast majority of the time if not all the time, he does not fight with his hands and fists, but rather rides a machine. When he is not in a machine, he's completely vulnerable, and usually only happens if Sonic isn't around.

Except in games that shows him more than capable of handling himself outside a machine. Whereas the one time we see Falcon confront someone outside of racing in a game (F-Zero GX), he's completely overpowered by Black Shadow.

comics = not canon
I'm actually disgusted the comics would even be brought up here. Why would that even be relevant on the matter of SSB versions of characters?

....YOU brought up a comic. Don't be a hypocrate.

Robotnik sounds like an evil genius who hides behind a control panel and commands robots to do his bidding.

And Captain Falcon sounds like a racer with a falcon motif. We can do generalizing all day.

also robotnik is polish for "worker"

Las I checked, "worker" doesn't sound like an evil genius in a field of robotics. Thus furthering the point.

Eggman has shown no feats either that didn't involve machines, aside from running his fat *** away from Sonic in Sonic 2. Funny though that should be used as an example of how he would make a good fighter.

In the endings, Wily bows in front of Mega Man pleading for forgiveness. He must be strong to be able to do pushups like that! Put that man in SSB4 straight up, no machines needed.

Failed troll.
Eggman has been shown in the Sonic Riders games to be able to punch obstacles out of his way just like Knuckles. Why do you think I kept saying "strength comparable to Knuckles"? If he was as weak as you claim he is, he wouldn't be considered a Power character, but a Speed character to go with his insane speed (which has been shown in more than Sonic 2).

bounty hunter = vigilante.

.....you have no idea what a bounty hunter is, do you?
A bounty hunter is someone who is paid to hunt down and arrest or kill specified targets that have bounties on them.
A vigilante is someone who takes the law into their own hands.
There's a big difference.

Furthermore to be a bounty hunter in F-Zero universe, you're obviously hiding some serious strength/talent/powers, otherwise you'd be dead. Just.. have you seen F-Zero's rogues gallery?? What Captain Falcon has to go up against is about as bad as what Eggman has to deal with. Except that with Eggman, it's largely established exactly how he deals with them all the time, and it's by surrounding himself with robots, and piloting machines.

Which is why Samurai Goroh is so powerful, huh? He's not dead either, and he's a bounty hunter. And he's quite poor at it.
And once again, being a bounty hunter =/= fiery bird punches.
And it's largely established how Falcon deals with his rogues gallery. He beats them in races. . Guess Falcon should be in his car the whole time.

 

[Jabejazz]

SNES comic.

Point still stands. A comic made for the SNES game, compared to a cartoon made by a third party which may or may not be accurate.

Which is why Samurai Goroh is so powerful, huh? He's not dead either, and he's a bounty hunter. And he's quite poor at it.

To be fair, he's more of a gang-leader than a bounty hunter :
In outward appearance, Goroh is a bounty hunter just like Falcon, but in actuality, he is the boss of an intergalactic group of bandits with a terrible reputation. This group of cutthroats is said to use the Red Canyon for a hideout.[...]He actually dreams of performing notorious deeds as a bounty hunter, but Falcon always seems to beat him to the punch in the newest and most profitable projects—Goroh is very bitter about this.

Taken straight from GX booklet.

Also from GX booklet, about C.Falcon :

Beyond racing, he is quite well-know as an extremely capable bounty hunter -just how many criminals he's brought in is unknown, but the number is said to be astronomic. Obviously you beat criminals in races to put them in prison.[/quote][/quote]

 

[Deleted member]

Well, like I said, he's poor at it.

 

[Frostwraith]

While it would be cooler to have Eggman on his mech while fighting (think of Tron Bonne in MvC), it's not impossible to have Eggman fight outside his mech.

Meet Rufus from Street Fighter IV. If HE can fight, so can Eggman. See the images below to get my point.

 

[volbound1700]

I really don't think of Dr. Robotnik as being fast, in the chase scenes, I just think he has the advantage by taking off before Sonic can get to his speeds. You notice he doesn't run long and it is more of a panic run real quick while Sonic is still recovering from just detroying some mech boss.

 

[Deleted member]

Doesn't explain how Mechless Eggman moves faster than Sonic in Sonic Adventure 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6jEQv7ee9s

He's also got some speed in the Olympics, though that is attributed to his great Stamina rather than his Speed stat. (This is why Wario can beat Sonic in the running challenges easy)
Though his Speed stat is not too bad; it's actually pretty good for someone who isn't in the Speed Class.

 

[Frostwraith]

Doesn't explain how Mechless Eggman moves faster than Sonic in Sonic Adventure 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6jEQv7ee9s

The power of science.

Perhaps Eggman uses the same speed data as Sonic? But I don't recall him being so fast when using him on the Chao Garden, though.

 

[Deleted member]

The power of science.

Perhaps Eggman uses the same speed data as Sonic? But I don't recall him being so fast when using him on the Chao Garden, though.

He didn't really have all that area to move and acheive top speed.
If used outside the Chao Garden....he has no such limitation.

 

[Frostwraith]

He didn't really have all that area to move and acheive top speed.
If used outside the Chao Garden....he has no such limitation.

Yeah, you're correct.

Still, it's funny to see Eggman as fast as Sonic.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, when you expect to be chased by him at some point, you got to be able to at least outrun him, even if it's for a short while to make your escape or get to the last resort machine.

 

[volbound1700]

Olympic series is poorly done when it comes to stamina.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know....Wario's got pretty good stamina if he can survive being crushed, set on fire, bitten by zombies, bitten by vampires, buried in snow, completely frozen, electrocuted, heavy allergic reaction to bee stings, etc.

 

[Wonks]

I keep having this crazy thought that if Dillon's in Smash, we may see a Knuckles clone. I know it doesn't seem possible, but the two have similar looks, abilities, and back-stories/family history.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I keep having this crazy thought that if Dillon's in Smash, we may see a Knuckles clone. I know it doesn't seem possible, but the two have similar looks, abilities, and back-stories/family history.

Pretty sure Dillon can't glide, climb walls or even punch really. Dillon uses his claws to slash.

 

[final lap]

The problem with Sonic is that he's too fast. (the fastest character in Brawl, you say?) There should be a Sonic series rep that is more noob friendly.

Even if Shadow was a semi-clone of Sonic (as in all 4 of his moves are the same), if he was slow and heavy/powerful enough, I think I'd be ok with it.
Eggman, Knuckles, Amy.. any one of them would provide a more standard character instead of an ultra fast one.

But now that I mention it, maybe the devs will simply tone Sonic down.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The problem with Sonic is that he's too fast. (the fastest character in Brawl, you say?) There should be a Sonic series rep that is more noob friendly.

That gave you away. How's the trollying business?

 

[FalKoopa]

The problem with Sonic is that he's too fast. (the fastest character in Brawl, you say?) There should be a Sonic series rep that is more noob friendly.

Sonic isn't meant for noobs. He's not a pick-up-and-play character, unlike Mario.

Ignore if you're trolling.

 

[final lap]

Sonic isn't meant for noobs.

Sonic fans are not going to be as good at fighting games, myself included. I think it's kind of counter intuitive to make SSB's sole Sonic rep an expert-level character.

That is partly why I think there is good cause for a 2nd Sonic rep.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sonic fans are not going to be as good at fighting games, myself included. I think it's kind of counter intuitive to make SSB's sole Sonic rep an expert-level character.

That is partly why I think there is good cause for a 2nd Sonic rep.

Even though Sonic's had more fighting games than any of Nintendo's characters....

And that's a terrible reason for including a character....