Sonic the Hedgehog; a 2nd series rep

[Deleted member]

Look, both of you shaddup and kiss.
You both handled this the wrong way.

And if I'm the one saying something like that, you know you done goofed.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Look, both of you shaddup and kiss.
You both handled this the wrong way.

And if I'm the one saying something like that, you know you done goofed.

It's funny cuz its true.

Alright final lap. Let's get this over with.

We cool?

 

[FalKoopa]

Another debate? Interesting. *munches on popcorn*

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Another debate? Interesting. *munches on popcorn*

Too late mi amigo. Already finished. We're at the making up part.

 

[final lap]

It's fine. Maybe I overreacted.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It's fine. Maybe I overreacted.

We both did.

 

[lordvaati]

*sighs*
I see both sides going about this the wrong way.
While Shadow being a Sonic semiclone would make a lot of sense, just giving minor changes to some moves is not the route to take it.

For example, we have Sonic's Neutral Special, the Homing Attack.
Shadow has been able to perform this since his debut. However, Sonic 06 introduced a special variation of this: Chaos Attack.
With this, Shadow would start off similar to Sonic and rise in the air, then home in on the opponent as he hits the opponent, the player can rapidly press either the attack button or special button (whichever works better for this) to rapidly assault the opponent with punches and kicks.

Now, Shadow needs to Spin Dash. It's iconic to nearly all major Sonic characters, including him.
What I propose as an idea, is that Shadow takes Sonic's old Side Special version of it, leaving Sonic with just the Spin Charge Down Special version. Why? For two reasons:
1. Sonic's Side Special represents how Spin Dash works in Modern titles, while Sonic's Down Specal represents how it works in Classic titles. Shadow, being a Modern character in his debut, would sensibly use the Side Special version.
2. Sonic Boost has become a major part of Sonic's gameplay since after his Brawl appearance, much like the Homing Attack did after Sonic Adventure. Sonic using the Sonic Boost for a Side Special to replace his older one is beleivable.

Springs, don't use them. Sonic only uses a Spring because there's not much else he can do for a recovery.
Shadow has his Chaos Abilities, including a teleportation.

Since two Spin Dashes would be redundant (like in Brawl), this move is open to anything, really. My personal preference would be the Chaos Spear, yet another iconic ability for Shadow. It could theoretically be like when controlling Super Shadow in his own game, press the special button rapidly after firing to rapidly shoot smaller, weaker bolts, or hold the special button after initiating the attack to charge a larger, stronger bolt.

Final Smash, I had an idea where Shadow would briefly turn into Super Shadow, unleash the Arrows of Light ability Super Shadow had in Sonic 06, then revert to normal.

EDIT: Then we get into normal attacks. Those would be as different as Ness and Lucas, considering Sonic has his style of fighting and Shadow has his. They contrast.

also with the recovery thing, he could also temporarily fly with his boots in most games.

 

[final lap]

also with the recovery thing, he could also temporarily fly with his boots in most games.

For the record, there was only one cutscene in SA2 where he appears to levitate using his boots, and it was never an in-game ability.

On 2nd thought you might be thinking of his homing attack, or the fact he pauses in the air when firing chaos spear or a gun.

 

[Deleted member]

His Hover Shoes have been used to keep himself afloat when need be (only example in-game that I know of is when he is firing a weapon, where he uses them to stay in place in the air).
It isn't that farfetched to see him use them as a recovery option, using them more like the cutscene when he is first awakened by Eggman.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Shadow is easily one of the worst ideas for a playable character in Smadh. Even for 3rd party standards...

 

[Junahu]

Well, ok. But this is a thread set up specifically for discussing these things, so you should offer reasoning for your point of view.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Shadow as a violent gun toting version of Sonic is racist.

They only did that because of his color.


Next we'll find out his favorite food is watermelons

 

[FalKoopa]

If there has to be a 2nd Sonic rep, it should be Eggman.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm still not calling him eggman. He's robotnick as far as I'm concerned

 

[Deleted member]

If there has to be a 2nd Sonic rep, it should be Eggman.

Agreed. Eggman would be pretty friggen sweet.
Question is, would he be in a mech, or would he fight like he does as El Gran Gordo? (Luchador style)
Or maybe wrestling backed with mechanical enhancements?

Or whatever. Eggman has potential out the wazoo.

 

[FalKoopa]

The mech seems better suited for a final smash.

 

[Junahu]

I think Eggman's utter reliance on technology that encapsulates and insulates him is central to his character. So unless he uses a lot of gizmos that emulate various iconic past bosses, then it would be difficult to create a moveset for a mechless Eggman.
You could probably make due with a tiny mech, one that is effectively just metal legs and a barebones chasis that seats Eggman's bulk

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Or his iconic hovercraft

 

[Junahu]

I think our assumptions default to him using a mech, so that we can keep him grounded. The difference is relatively superficial anyway, since the SA2 mech was, for all intents and purposes, just his normal egg-o-matic craft with legs attached to it.

 

[Opossum]

Eggman using his mech would be the only second Sonic character I'd support. I just want a mech user. Is that too much to ask, Nintendo? D:


Seriously. As far as Nintendo-owned mech users, I can only think of Porky and Jill Dozer. Is there even anyone else?

 

[Deleted member]

At the same time, Eggman has shown great feats within his own ability outside a mech, such as somehow being able to outrun Sonic and have strength comparable to that of Knuckles.

Though as you said, Junahu, Eggman is known for machines. I think the fanart for "Sonic and Sega All-Stars War Zone" where Eggman fought hand to hand with a mechanical exoskeleton suit would be a suitable style for him as it combines the natural skill with the dependency on machines.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

At the same time, Eggman has shown great feats within his own ability outside a mech, such as somehow being able to outrun Sonic and have strength comparable to that of Knuckles.

Though as you said, Junahu, Eggman is known for machines. I think the fanart for "Sonic and Sega All-Stars War Zone" where Eggman fought hand to hand with a mechanical exoskeleton suit would be a suitable style for him as it combines the natural skill with the dependency on machines.

I just looked that up.

Why would they include Earthworm Jim in a SEGA fighting game?

 

[volbound1700]

@ PyschoIncarnate, I have never thought of Shadow as a Black person, at best he is a white goth lol.

Tails to me should be next in line followed by Dr. Robotnik. Tails = Luigi and Luigi got in before Bowser. Mario + Luigi vs. Sonic + Tails is EPIC.

 

[Deleted member]

I just looked that up.

Why would they include Earthworm Jim in a SEGA fighting game?

The artists gathered the idea that it should incorporate a lot of 3rd Party characters that have history with Sega.
Eartworm Jim has a bit of notability to Sega, despite the games being generally multiplatform.

 

[FalKoopa]

Tails to me should be next in line followed by Dr. Robotnik. Tails = Luigi and Luigi got in before Bowser. Mario + Luigi vs. Sonic + Tails is EPIC.

Mario+Sonic vs Bowser+Eggman is much more epic.

 

[final lap]

His Hover Shoes have been used to keep himself afloat when need be (only example in-game that I know of is when he is firing a weapon, where he uses them to stay in place in the air).

I don't think that's his shoes doing that necessarily. (unless energy is visibly emanating from his shoes in which case I'm wrong) It's just something games commonly do even if the character has no means of levitating.

It isn't that farfetched to see him use them as a recovery option, using them more like the cutscene when he is first awakened by Eggman.

Yep, that's the cutscene I was thinking of.

I'm still not calling him eggman. He's robotnick as far as I'm concerned

I'm not calling him Bowser. He's King Koopa as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, it's the shoes.

 

[final lap]

Still, if you look here.. Dante is able to stay in the air while firing weapons, and Dante doesn't have rocket shoes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_HM10PunTs#t0m30s

There are probably other games that do this if I can just think of them / find footage of it happening.

I am not saying Shadow shouldn't levitate in SSB, but I might make the point that, levitating strictly to fire a weapon, and just levitating, can be considered two different things.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Still, if you look here.. Dante is able to stay in the air while firing weapons, and Dante doesn't have rocket shoes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_HM10PunTs#t0m30s

There are probably other games that do this if I can just think of them / find footage of it happening.

I am not saying Shadow shouldn't levitate in SSB, but I might make the point that, levitating strictly to fire a weapon, and just levitating, can be considered two different things.

But Shadow is clearly using his shoes...
Yes, its a gameplay thing but, the game explains why Shadow can do that.

 

[Deleted member]

It doesn't matter if Dante doesn't have hover shoes, or whoever else you can think of that shoots a gun, Shadow has been shown to use the shoes for levitation. That is all that matters.

 

[final lap]

If Eggman was in his eggmobile, it would be strange, because it's only supposed to fly, but SSB is a game where everyone is standing or jumping.

It doesn't have to be SA2 walker specifically, but the general concept seems like the way to go. (eggmobile + legs)

When I try to visualize Eggman in SSB, the SA2 walker immediately works. I see him front-flipping down through platforms, hovering, using punching glove, etc.

edit: On top of that there there's the added significance of the fact that the only time Eggman was ever playable was in his SA2 walker, and the game even featured same-screen multiplayer.

 

[Deleted member]

Only time he was playable?

Sonic Drift
Sonic Drift 2
Sonic R
Sonic the Fighters (HD re-release only)
Virtua Striker 3
Sonic Riders
Sonic Riders Zero Gravity
Sonic Free Riders
Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games
Mario and Sonic at the Winter Olympic Games
Mario and Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games
Sonic Superstars Tennis
Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing
Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed
Sonic Chronicles

as well as some other miniscule playable roles in other games I didn't mention. Adventure 2 is by far NOT the only game you can play as the good doctor.
Aside from that, even in your example of Sonic Adventure 2, you can play as Eggman on his own, though only in the Chao Garden.

 

[final lap]

Sonic Fighters is a good call, since Eggman rides a machine in that too.

But this gives me another idea for what Eggman's machine can be in SSB.

This thing from Sonic CD:

 

[Deleted member]

Problem with both the Egg Walker and the mech from Sonic CD is that they are too damn tall and have nothing to use for grabbing ledges, opponents, items, etc.

If he HAS to use a mech, the Fighters one is the way to go.

 

[final lap]

and have nothing to use for grabbing ledges, opponents, items, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGk4yD0s0g0#t=0m58s

bwahahahaha xD

 

[volbound1700]

Dr. Robotnik would be hard to fit into Smash as a character unfortunately. He fits perfectly as a boss though.

 

[FalKoopa]

Dr. Robotnik would be hard to fit into Smash as a character unfortunately. He fits perfectly as a boss though.

If he can play in the Olympics, he certainly can fight.

 

[volbound1700]

I guess they could do a playstyle with him outside of a mech using olympics or tech moves but that wouldn't do him justice. He relies on machines and not his own physical body to fight Sonic et al.

 

[Deleted member]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGk4yD0s0g0#t=0m58s

bwahahahaha xD

Doesn't work.
Do you notice that he has to grab something right above him? Eggman can't reach out in front of him while in either mech.

Which is why the Fighters mech works best. Not only does it have moves to borrow from (like how Sonic borrows from the game), but it also works within the specifications of Smash.

 

[Frostwraith]

Eggman on his walker could work. A good way to see that he can work is to see how Tron Bonne fights in MvC.

They could make an original walker based off on his usual Egg-o-Matic, but add mechanical arms and legs and have the cannons from SA2 for projectile moves.