Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Espy Rose]

Or put edgehogging back in.

 

[Camalange]

Or put edgehogging back in.

Trump for president.

(not really though)

 

[Minwu]

How many characters can just straight up challenge Sonic's spindash with a smash attack? As a non-Sonic player, when you can beat out spindash with a Ganon Fsmash trying to shield it seems like the wrong choice of action.

 

[Espy Rose]

Doesn't matter. All of them can challenge spindash with jab.

 

[jordanm43444]

I didn't know that having KO moves counted as an issue...?

Well I mean, looking at past nerfs for us that seems to be the case. RIP kill power.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Doesn't matter. All of them can challenge spindash with jab.

People often cite Sonic as Ryu's worst matchup. I don't really see it being too bad (if any bad at all) having that gigantic disjoint and when trades will almost always go on Ryu's favor.

 

[Minwu]

So... what makes spindash work then? Panic shielding/creative angles? Do people go too slow when fighting Sonic?

 

[MarKO X]

The spindash in and of itself doesn't work. The game play that is Sonic makes the spindash work.

Spindash is terrible for approaching.
It doesn't stop or go through projectiles (most of the time, as there are special occasions, such as down B stopping fireballs and arrows(I think) as well as the side B hop going over and through projectiles due to the hop and its invincibility). Also, the options out of spindash are far more limited than, say, walking or running. You can only turn around (and erase its hitbox upon turn), jump, and stop (which leaves you open most of the time), as opposed to dashing still having access to usmash, dash attack, shield, stop, jump, grab, other specials and walking having every option that dashes don't (fsmash, tilts, etc.)

So what makes spindash work? Bait and punish makes spindash work.

We run around, we make you think you can attack us, we show you that the attack you threw just now can't hit us, and we spindash you.

We knock you into the air. We dare you to attack us with something laggy, or dare you to air dodge upon landing, and we spindash you.

We spindash once and jump, then jump away. We act like we're gonna spindash, but we cancel its charge. Then maybe we'll do a vertical spindash jump. Lull you to sleep, then we spindash you.

However, once we know that you don't know how to deal with a spindash, we will run all over you with it.

 

[Minwu]

*marth jab*

 

[Espy Rose]

People often cite Sonic as Ryu's worst matchup. I don't really see it being too bad (if any bad at all) having that gigantic disjoint and when trades will almost always go on Ryu's favor.

It's either even or slight Ryu favor just by virtue of his output and early KO setups.
I'm leaning more on an even MU though. Ryu can't really catch us, and sideB cuts through the Hadouken stuff.

 

[Seagull Joe]

's matchups entirely from my opinion:
70-30
70-30
50-50
60-40
60-40
45-55
60-40
40-60
60-40
60-40
50-50
50-50
60-40
50-50
55-45
50-50
60-40
50-50
50-50
50-50
35-65
70-30
50-50
50-50
50-50
55-45
55-45
40-60
70-30
50-50
60-40
50-50
50-50
55-45
60-40
55-45
60-40
50-50
50-50
70-30
60-40
60-40
70-30
70-30
70-30
60-40
60-40
70-30
60-40
50-50
55-45
70-30
55-45
60-40
55-45

 

[Giovani44]

I had a feeling sonic and dedede go even

 

[ぱみゅ]

But Sonic can pressure DDD, bait any of his laggy moves, combo him for days and not let him land.
From a DDD perspective, it's no better than 40:60.

 

[Giovani44]

Yeah that is true

 

[Espy Rose]

70:30


65:35


60:40


55:45


50:50


45:55


40:60


======

imo.

 

[jaimex2]

But Sonic can pressure DDD, bait any of his laggy moves, combo him for days and not let him land.
From a DDD perspective, it's no better than 40:60.

+1 I dont think I've ever lost to a DDD. It's like Ganon; dont do fancy stupid stuff and you'll two stock on frame data alone.

 

[soniczx123]

Have two good Dedede in our region (Both in the PR), would say the MU is even by the fact that he has like no endlag on most of him grounded moves.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Except he does, his grounded options are Jab, Dtilt, Ftilt and maaaaybe a surprise Dsmash.
All of them are laggy and/or lack range, specially to keep Sonic at bay.

Seriously, pick DDD against someone who knows the matchup and realize his massive flaws.

 

[Camalange]

Not to discourage the discussion, but let's try to keep the general match-up ratio debates to our match-up thread.

 

[Damandatwin]

was watching the komorikiri vs nairo set from Umebura and noticed komorikiri apparently doing short hop up airs out of shield:

probably a noob question but does anyone know how to do that? i always thought you couldn't since you just get jump-cancelled up smash and that is what i get when i try it

 

[Bowserboy3]

After months of putting it off, I have finally decided now is the time to learn Sonic more seriously. I come here for a bit of guidance before I get stuck in.

• What are the best things for Sonic to be doing in neutral? What should he be looking for? Examples of good moves?
  
• What is Sonic's best playstyle?
• Any easy/go to combos I should know about?
• Any techniques that are vital to his game I should know about?
• And if there are any good guides that anybody could point me in the direction of, i'd appreciate it!

Thanks to anybody who can help!

 

[jordanm43444]

What are the best things for Sonic to be doing in neutral? What should he be looking for? Examples of good moves?

Sonics neutral is weird, we dont really have a neutral outside of baiting people into doing bad options and punishing them for it immensely.

Really in neutral you should be doing various mixups with spindashes and such like Shield Cancelling SideB or hopping around in different angles with DownB/SideB until you get an opening.

What is Sonic's best playstyle?

As stated above, bait and punish. Dont even try and play full aggro Sonic it wont work too well.

Any easy/go to combos I should know about?

Really, alything out of spindash, well aerials.

Any techniques that are vital to his game I should know about?

http://smashboards.com/threads/moveset-thread-wip-bsbs-video-finally-updated-11-14-15.370892/

 

[MarKO X]

probably a noob question but does anyone know how to do that? i always thought you couldn't since you just get jump-cancelled up smash and that is what i get when i try it

step zero: turn tap up jump off
step one: learn how to short hop out of shield. That's easy.
step two: learn how to short hop nair out of shield. That's also easy.
step three: with tap up jump off, hold up on the stick and do jump cancelled upsmashes by buffering jumping and the A button. take a note of that timing.
step four: with tap up jump off, hold up on the stick, jump, and press A. You should be doing short hop uairs.

I don't have a Wii U, but I'm going to guess the timing you get with the above method will help you understand the short hop uair timing with or without the c-stick, whether tap up jump is on or off.

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

Finally back here again. Settled on making Sonic my main character. So uh, what are some tips on practicing movement with Sonic?

Edit: What are the applications of said movement techniques? I'm trying to implement them into my play but it isn't really easy finding a place to add them.

 

[Damandatwin]

step zero: turn tap up jump off
step one: learn how to short hop out of shield. That's easy.
step two: learn how to short hop nair out of shield. That's also easy.
step three: with tap up jump off, hold up on the stick and do jump cancelled upsmashes by buffering jumping and the A button. take a note of that timing.
step four: with tap up jump off, hold up on the stick, jump, and press A. You should be doing short hop uairs.

I don't have a Wii U, but I'm going to guess the timing you get with the above method will help you understand the short hop uair timing with or without the c-stick, whether tap up jump is on or off.

Yeah I know how to do that, I guess what I was wondering is if there is a way to do buffered up airs out of shield like with other aerials, because what he did looked super fast to me. I think I'm wrong though because that doesn't seem to be possible.

 

[Sonic Meaper]

Hello i main sonic for like 5 months. I didn't master sonic yet. I need to learn more.

I need help on the competition in 1 vs 1 glory. Most of them are OP and almost easily beat me. They're too much! Please help give me tips and tricks. I know i have to be good. I only beat few of them

if possibe, how can sonic shield break? Is it possible?

Can you list me habits i should use and shouldn't do but in certain situations? I feel like i have gone agressively without thinking because it's too competitive

Can you list me most things on how to bait. I don't think i bait very well. Maybe a video might be helpful

which one of sonic's move can deflect DDD's gordo back at DDD? It's so annoying! If so can you show me the video of how to deflect it in the right timing and right angle.

Do you think i lost to players in 1 vs 1 glory because i didnt dodge or block well? or bait or something?
Oh i play it on 3ds. No wiiU

Thanks!

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

which one of sonic's move can deflect DDD's gordo back at DDD? It's so annoying! If so can you show me the video of how to deflect it in the right timing and right angle.


Thanks!

Everything. But Jab and Spindash are the most effective out of all of them.

 

[J~Rod 00TimeMaster]

A few questions:

After BSBS is active will SDR/SCR -> FS deactive BSBS?

Also what jab lock setups do we have? I know that Sonic can SDR/SCR -> FS -> SJ (lock) -> D-air (to follow up lock). This is very hard to execute, especially on certain characters. Are there moves that could cause a platform fall with a more sure punish than spring locking?

Also tips on setup/execution of D-air spike to FS?

Thanks.

 

[da K.I.D.]

If you think recoveries need to be toned down, you need to git gud and step up your 2 frame punish game.

Does anybody know if theres any difference between pre jump frames for short hop and full jumps

 

[Exegguter]

Hey new Sonic player here (used to be a doc main)


I got a question regarding this video:

https://youtu.be/_PRJ0V5o85A

At 00:19 how does he do that? Stop the speed of the dash and go straight up?

At 2:06 (same question basically) but how does he cancel the SD on shield/ stop his momentum immediately?

What are the inputs?


Thanks in advance !

 

[Camalange]

Hey new Sonic player here (used to be a doc main)


I got a question regarding this video:

https://youtu.be/_PRJ0V5o85A

At 00:19 how does he do that? Stop the speed of the dash and go straight up?

At 2:06 (same question basically) but how does he cancel the SD on shield/ stop his momentum immediately?

What are the inputs?


Thanks in advance !

First off...

Holy ****, that was a terrible set. God damn that was painful. I made it like, a minute in.

Second off, to answer the question...

We basically call it a Slow Spin Roll. It's easiest with Spin Charge, but when a Spin has little charge or collides with a shield, it slows down the spin. If you jump during the Slow Spin Roll state, you can do a Vertical Spin Jump (VSJ) of sorts. It's a great mix-up option.

 

[Espy Rose]

Your spin also slows down when travelling up hill. Most prominent on lylat cruise and castle siege.

 

[Exegguter]

First off...

Holy ****, that was a terrible set. God damn that was painful. I made it like, a minute in.

Second off, to answer the question...

We basically call it a Slow Spin Roll. It's easiest with Spin Charge, but when a Spin has little charge or collides with a shield, it slows down the spin. If you jump during the Slow Spin Roll state, you can do a Vertical Spin Jump (VSJ) of sorts. It's a great mix-up option.

Lol all my friends say that as well (I secretly like it though hehehe)

So that basically means tapping spin charge once and then jump to go straight upward/hold back to cancel it immediately?

Thanks for answering!! :D

 

[Camalange]

Lol all my friends say that as well (I secretly like it though hehehe)

So that basically means tapping spin charge once and then jump to go straight upward/hold back to cancel it immediately?

Thanks for answering!! :D

There's no canceling involved.

It's hard to describe, but once you hit the shield (or go up a slope), you can see Sonic sort of "stall" and during that period, just tap jump. Once you jump you're primarily vertical and have control of his aerial movement.

 

[Damandatwin]

was watching the komorikiri vs nairo set from Umebura and noticed komorikiri apparently doing short hop up airs out of shield:

probably a noob question but does anyone know how to do that? i always thought you couldn't since you just get jump-cancelled up smash and that is what i get when i try it

I found out how to do this after (short hop buffered up airs). Turn on tap jump and set c-stick to attack (instead of smash). More details here:

Not sure if I wanna enable tap jump...

 

[Ax^2]

This isnt a question of sorts but more of an observation. I dont know if this already known, but sonic can combo an opponent from his Fair into an Utilt and an Uair string at low percents.

Short hop Fair >(keep holding control stick towards knockback direction and auto cancel fair) Utilt > Uair > (jump) Uair/Bair.

 

[soniczx123]

This isnt a question of sorts but more of an observation. I dont know if this already known, but sonic can combo an opponent from his Fair into an Utilt and an Uair string at low percents.

Short hop Fair >(keep holding control stick towards knockback direction and auto cancel fair) Utilt > Uair > (jump) Uair/Bair.

Is it a true combo? What weight class does it work on? How big of a factor is fall speed?

 

[Ax^2]

Is it a true combo? What weight class does it work on? How big of a factor is fall speed?

In my experience, it is a true combo below 40% 30%. Fall speed is a big deal with the fair. You want to fast fall a bit after you hit the opponent with the last hit of the Fair, but before the opponent is too far away (you can avoid this happening by moving towards them after the knockback hit and then fast falling when you're very near). If done correctly, the Fair is auto cancelled and you are right infront of the opponent WHILE they're still in hitstun and being knocked back. You can then trap them with an Utilt and immediatley follow with a Uair string or what ever desired. This combo is useless anywhere over 40% 30%. Keep in mind that this combo is hard to pull off.

About weight class, im not sure, but this was attempted on an Ike and each hit connected. I have yet to test this combo completely. Although, I can safely say that this will work exceptionally well with big characters like Bowser and DK. I will be available for quite awhile so if you wish we could test this out with DI and such. NNID is BlueBlur97

Edit: Ignore my statement about fast falling, you want as much foreward momentum going as possible and fast falling won't help.

Im still testing this out and when done properly, this combo does 33%dmg. I find that it's easier to do Fair > Utilt > fair (as opposed to Uair), In which case this combo would deal 22%

 

[soniczx123]

Interesting. I will try labbing this in training and come back with results. I appreciate the offer of practicing together, but I can't handle the lag of playing against someone from across the ocean (as I only have access to a wireless connection)

 

[Camalange]

I usually just Fair > Ftilt since getting the Utilt to reach doesn't seem to work for me.

Maybe it's more likely if you hit with the center of Fair, or maybe I'm just not getting it at the right percent.