Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Marteh]

This may seem like a stupid question and I feel I should know this.
But does Sonic's Down B shift Sonic's hurtbox back slightly? I've had a few deaths near the blastzone as I go to spinshot, I'm not sure if I'm somehow spinshotting off to the blastzone, or my hurtboxis shifting and killing me that way?

 

[divade]

Yep.

Sonic-curious sounds like an orientation.

Lol some people I think are sonic curious. Is this tech applicable? Or is it too hard to time? The use for this btw would be lowering your hurt box and giving a grab with less fail lag.

 

[jaimex2]

This may seem like a stupid question and I feel I should know this.
But does Sonic's Down B shift Sonic's hurtbox back slightly? I've had a few deaths near the blastzone as I go to spinshot, I'm not sure if I'm somehow spinshotting off to the blastzone, or my hurtboxis shifting and killing me that way?

Yeah it does. Always fair your way out of horizontal blast zones to live about 3% longer.

Go into level editor and make a lava wall to test shifting positions.

 

[Camalange]

A very fast-paced one.

Is there any advantage of doing that instead of a Pivot Grab other than the mixup value?

Lol some people I think are sonic curious. Is this tech applicable? Or is it too hard to time? The use for this btw would be lowering your hurt box and giving a grab with less fail lag.

I'm still unsure if it's in the frame data which is better... The spin canceled version will give you less end lag but I feel like the pivot grab is less forecasted and possibly quicker overall start-up since it's less inputs? Something that's kind of bothered me for a long time because I'm not a frame data person and I want to know if SDSC grabs are just better overall than regular grabs.

This may seem like a stupid question and I feel I should know this.
But does Sonic's Down B shift Sonic's hurtbox back slightly? I've had a few deaths near the blastzone as I go to spinshot, I'm not sure if I'm somehow spinshotting off to the blastzone, or my hurtboxis shifting and killing me that way?

Pretty much doing most moves near a blast zone will actually kill you sooner. If you're unsure of what move will push your hurtbox away from the blast zone, you're safer not pressing anything.

In Sonic's case, Fair works but for some reason I feel like even that has killed me sooner than normal...

 

[divade]

I'm still unsure if it's in the frame data which is better... The spin canceled version will give you less end lag but I feel like the pivot grab is less forecasted and possibly quicker overall start-up since it's less inputs? Something that's kind of bothered me for a long time because I'm not a frame data person and I want to know if SDSC grabs are just better overall than regular grabs.

Alright, I'll leave it alone if it's up in the air on usefulness. I'll keep using the sdsc to slide I. Though cause that's just funny lol.

Edit new question : Are there any option selects with sonic? I was trying to set one if you landed/missed a footstool so sonic doesn't dair to his death on whiff.

 

[Heracr055]

Hello Sonic boards! Which characters are considered Sonic's worst MUs? I'm doing research for possible secondaries for Ryu's bad MUs (despite me thinking the Sonic MU for Ryu's not that bad)

 

[Skyfox2000]

Hello Sonic boards! Which characters are considered Sonic's worst MUs? I'm doing research for possible secondaries for Ryu's bad MUs (despite me thinking the Sonic MU for Ryu's not that bad)

,, , these are some Match-Ups that I struggle in. /projectiles can make it really hard to get in and /I feel like the Blue Blur struggles with Sword Characters. However, this is just my opinion.

(Also can someone help me with the / MU, I find it very difficult fighting these two characters and advice would be deeply appreciated.)

 

[KeetZ]

So I just watched the stepdash video everyone has their tailfeathers rustled over, and I must ask what you guys think this could open up for Sonic if anything at all.

Edit: https://youtu.be/KvRsb_2yE5Y
Here's a link to the video for those who may not have viewed it.

 

[Rucent]

Hello Sonic boards! Which characters are considered Sonic's worst MUs? I'm doing research for possible secondaries for Ryu's bad MUs (despite me thinking the Sonic MU for Ryu's not that bad)

Outside of Mega Man, Sonic really doesn't have bad match up that everyone can universally agree upon.

Most people tend to say Fox, Cloud, Rosalina, Yoshi, Corrin, Toon Link, and Zero Suit Samus are unfavorable match ups, but I feel like those match ups aren't as bad if you know how to approach them and what to abuse from them. You need to learn good and safe spacing no matter what with any of these characters if you do choose to use them against Sonic. You also have to know Sonic if you want to do better against him.

If you hear a Sonic main say he loses to Wario though, tell them to learn how to play Sonic.

(Also can someone help me with the / MU, I find it very difficult fighting these two characters and advice would be deeply appreciated.)

There is discussions on these two characters in the MU thread. BSP has good posts regarding the Pac-Man match up that I totally recommend. Just read starting from here until you see a post from me stating the next two characters being discussed. If you want to see discussions for the Peach MU then go here. Do note that very little is said for the Peach MU. In that case, I also made a post here about the Peach MU.

 

[Camalange]

Pretty much every Sonic agrees we lose to Mega Man.

I think we lose pretty badly to Rosaluma still.

So I just watched the stepdash video everyone has their tailfeathers rustled over, and I must ask what you guys think this could open up for Sonic if anything at all.

Edit: https://youtu.be/KvRsb_2yE5Y
Here's a link to the video for those who may not have viewed it.

This kind of reminds me of Sonic's grind, but better.

Has anyone tested how well this works with Sonic yet?

 

[KeetZ]

Pretty much every Sonic agrees we lose to Mega Man.

I think we lose pretty badly to Rosaluma still.

This kind of reminds me of Sonic's grind, but better.

Has anyone tested how well this works with Sonic yet?

Just as with every tech I feel like there could be some undiscovered applications for us, but of course we're also the fastest character so maybe we don't need this fancy stutter step?
Also, the only mu I think we're at a noticeable deficit other than Mega Man is Cloud.

 

[Bwill3002]

Is U-tilt bair u-tilt a true combo for Sonic at lower percents? I was messing around in training mode and it looks like it is.

 

[Camalange]

Just as with every tech I feel like there could be some undiscovered applications for us, but of course we're also the fastest character so maybe we don't need this fancy stutter step?
Also, the only mu I think we're at a noticeable deficit other than Mega Man is Cloud.

I feel that way sometimes about movement tech, but I also don't want that to be an excuse to be lazy.

Nah, Cloud match-up isn't that bad.

Is U-tilt bair u-tilt a true combo for Sonic at lower percents? I was messing around in training mode and it looks like it is.

Utilt > Bair is sometimes true but it pretty much ends there.

 

[KeetZ]

I've asked this before but I never really got a solid answer, but can someone please tell me what 6wx is doing @12:45 with the spincharge and provide the inputs.

https://youtu.be/g11KT_q5mnU

 

[luke_atyeo]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for

I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.

 

[Caldozza]

Hey guys, I've been trying to learn sonic for a while and was wondering if someone would be able to tell me all of the movement options that I should try to master to play sonic affectively. thanks

 

[<Chewy>]

My friend now mains mega man after Kamemushi got second at EVO. I am having a hard time dealing with all those stupid lemons and metal blades. Any tips?

Hey guys, I've been trying to learn sonic for a while and was wondering if someone would be able to tell me all of the movement options that I should try to master to play sonic affectively. thanks

Well, some I can think of include:

Spinshot
Dashdancing
Foxtrotting
Extended dash dancing
Spindash/Spincharge (does this count?)

These are only a few I can think of. I am sure there a ton more but these are just a few good movement options.

Umm, I'm not sure if this is a new discovery or not, but Sonic has some grounded grab release combos. But only on Villager (I've tested on the majority of cast and only Villager seems to be affected by this). After pummeling Villager, you can either jab, f-tilt, or d-tilt. The only useful thing for this grab release combo (that I can think of) is d-tilt at high percentages. If you are lucky enough to get the untechable spin animation, you can go for the up smash kill. Or you can just use this for damage. The help bar in training mode says it's true. Does anybody know if this works on anybody else or if this is really true? Thanks.

 

[kenate101]

Hello Sonic boards, I'm fairly new to this and I don't really forum post but I have been having an issue lately. My friend tells me I don't know how to pressure shields well and I was wondering how do I pressure a shield with sonic at all. I understand spindash is an option but can I get some more clarification on pressuring shields with Sonic? Also what is safe on shield with him?

 

[Snack Pack]

I've asked this before but I never really got a solid answer, but can someone please tell me what 6wx is doing @12:45 with the spincharge and provide the inputs.

https://youtu.be/g11KT_q5mnU

Rolling Spin Charge > https://smashboards.com/threads/rollingspincharge-sonic-advanced-technique.417290/

 

[MarKO X]

My friend now mains mega man after Kamemushi got second at EVO. I am having a hard time dealing with all those stupid lemons and metal blades. Any tips?

Start approaching with shield. Stop approaching with Spin Dash. Have more patience than usual. If you get a lead on an overly campy Mega Man, their plan should start to unravel if you choose to lame them out.

If you have a lead and you can get the Metal Blade in hand, hold it, and really lame that Mega Man out.

Just a couple of tips I've gathered in my limited For Glory experience.

Umm, I'm not sure if this is a new discovery or not, but Sonic has some grounded grab release combos. But only on Villager (I've tested on the majority of cast and only Villager seems to be affected by this). After pummeling Villager, you can either jab, f-tilt, or d-tilt. The only useful thing for this grab release combo (that I can think of) is d-tilt at high percentages. If you are lucky enough to get the untechable spin animation, you can go for the up smash kill. Or you can just use this for damage. The help bar in training mode says it's true. Does anybody know if this works on anybody else or if this is really true? Thanks.

I once watched a video on grab releases.
After grab releases, both parties are completely neutral.

I did check the Villager thing (on a 3DS), however, and the counter does go up for some reason. Played against a level 9 cpu, and a strange thing happened... The cpu blocked one jab, but got hit with the rest, and the counter still went up even after blocking the first jab.

Unless you can get a human to hold that shield button after getting grabbed and prove otherwise, I'd honestly just call it a glitch in the counter, because the level 9 cpu was able to shield the first jab. Maybe there's a glitch where the shield doesn't block after a grab release, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[jaimex2]

Rolling Spin Charge > https://smashboards.com/threads/rollingspincharge-sonic-advanced-technique.417290/

Confusing instructions...

Just hit down B while in the run animation, holding down for about one second before letting go of the stick.

At least that's how I've always done it for 100% consistency.

Fun fact: Spin Charge has an active hit box on frame 1. ( vs 5 for dash attack and 17 for spin dash)

 

[hotshot23]

How do you perform sonic's spin bounce slide cancel? Everytime I input the C-stick, I input a dash attack.

 

[jaimex2]

How do you perform sonic's spin bounce slide cancel? Everytime I input the C-stick, I input a dash attack.

The what?

 

[Swiffy22]

Couldn't find info regarding the timing for the reversed spin dash shield cancel and the wavebounce version, so I decided to do a little testing. I made two recordings of myself doing this roughly 5 minutes each and counted the frames.

Frame number indicates the frame on which Sonic's animation is reversed after the spin dash animation has started. Frame 1 = first frame of the spin dash animation out of the running animation.

Frame 1: Undetermined (One occurence in sample tested. Input too soon during the running animation, so no slide was given)
Frame 2: Undetermined (One occurence in sample tested. Resulted in a wavebounce with Sonic facing the same way he was running as a result of unintended stick movement.)
Frame 3: Reverse SDSC
Frame 4: Wavebounce SDSC
Frame 5: Reverse SDSC
Frame 6: Reverse SDSC
Frame 7+: Roll

 

[Z1GMA]

Do u have a combo list/thread? If yes - where?

Any advice on getting more Spring Stage Spikes?
I get the part that it is supposed to knock them from the outside, but do you have any advice on how to increase your odds of this happening?

 

[Bwill3002]

I found that if you up-air fast fall (in very specific way) into Up-tilt its a true combo at lower percents. I got it to work on Mario up to 24/25%, I got it to work on Ness from 0% to around 10% (but its hard af to get because of his height and how you have to fast fall) and Falco from lower percents. I also found that when fast fall in this way you can immediately do your tilts, smash attacks (still have start up time), Specials ( you can fast fall up air at even percents like 117% up-air and kill (basically guaranteed, but cpu didn't DI)), and dash attack aswell. I tested this multiple times.

 

[(Buddha)]

////////////////////////////////////

 

[Funkermonster]

Just curious: According to this tweet by Pugwest... Sonic's recovery is mediocre?

 

[jaimex2]

Just curious: According to this tweet by Pugwest... Sonic's recovery is mediocre?

Yeah, there's nothing overly special about it. Its better than the majority of the casts.

Weird tweet, I wouldn't say we have a good neutral. We are good at resetting but our neutral is entirely based on baiting and making you eat dirt for missing.

 

[kasakuri]

How should sonic approach people who like to camp on the side of the stage with their backs to the ledge?

Specifically, I have a lot of trouble with Palutena - in center stage, I can outspeed her but when she camps on the side of the stage with her back to the ledge, many of my approach options gets stuffed by disjoints and if I spin charge through those options, I'm still at a disadvantage because now I'm off stage and have to recover.

Thanks for your help!

 

[jaimex2]

How should sonic approach people who like to camp on the side of the stage with their backs to the ledge?

Specifically, I have a lot of trouble with Palutena - in center stage, I can outspeed her but when she camps on the side of the stage with her back to the ledge, many of my approach options gets stuffed by disjoints and if I spin charge through those options, I'm still at a disadvantage because now I'm off stage and have to recover.

Thanks for your help!

Mixups and baits like every other fight.

If they are camping the corner you can probably just stand there cornering her and not go in, she can't approach either so wait it out.
If she does the range attack I'm pretty sure a quick HA can punish it.

Other mixups would include:

- Run past the edge, jump back and bair.
- Slow spin charge > Reverse Sping - cover your landing with bair
- Feing SD and run in and grab
- Goto the other side of the stage and spam taunt

 

[NonJohns]

Is sonics foxtrot bad

 

[jaimex2]

Is sonics foxtrot bad

Nope, Its probably one of the best foxtrots in the game.

 

[West End]

Due to its length and sonics incredible speed along with dash cancelignh, sonic has one of the best foxtrots in the game, only secondary to clouds. (Clouds is good because when he dashes his feet leave the ground makeinig it super hard to tell when he is commiting to something.) Also, sonic has bad match-ups against RosaLuma, Cloud, and megaman (-20 for lemons )

 

[West End]

Also, coupled with sonics foxtrot, it makes hi moving spin dash cancel one of the best, if not the best, Mix up movement in the game, being fast and safe without making him commit to anything. It also enhances his allready great out of shield options.

 

[BenjieJay]

The one thing I just can't seem to be able to wrap my brain around is when I should be using down-b and when I should be using side-b. Right now I'm just always using side-b but I see some matches where people use both and I'm wondering where I should not be using side-b.

 

[West End]

Side B is great, also down B. What you need to understand the differences.
Side B has a short "hop" when he starts the animation, and is a great mix up tool. It is also necessary for spin-shoting on the ground, as you need to be in the a to spin-shot. Also, if you run into someones shield with the side special, it passes right through and is VERY hard to punish.

Down B is good to. There is no "hop" at the beginning of the animation, and is notably faster when fully charged. It is also better to spin-shot in the air with, as it shifts your hurt box, allowing you to go a little deeper into the blast zone. Also, if your're opponent is spot-doge happy, then use the side b. Its multi hit properties can sometimes catch him if he is not expecting it.

One more thing... ONLY SIDE B CAN SHIELD CANCEL. So your down be will be used mostly for mix-ups while you are on the ground. Please reply i that didn't answer your question.

 

[BenjieJay]

Side B is great, also down B. What you need to understand the differences.
Side B has a short "hop" when he starts the animation, and is a great mix up tool. It is also necessary for spin-shoting on the ground, as you need to be in the a to spin-shot. Also, if you run into someones shield with the side special, it passes right through and is VERY hard to punish.

Down B is good to. There is no "hop" at the beginning of the animation, and is notably faster when fully charged. It is also better to spin-shot in the air with, as it shifts your hurt box, allowing you to go a little deeper into the blast zone. Also, if your're opponent is spot-doge happy, then use the side b. Its multi hit properties can sometimes catch him if he is not expecting it.

One more thing... ONLY SIDE B CAN SHIELD CANCEL. So your down be will be used mostly for mix-ups while you are on the ground. Please reply i that didn't answer your question.

That's all great info, but a few more questions if you don't mind. What defines charge of the different moves(going faster), is it holding, tapping the button again and again? It just seems like when I watch high-level Sonics their spindashes seem to go much faster then mine. Maybe it's just placebo on my end? LOL

And by the description it sounds like I should only be using down-b when going for a down b specific tech like the spinstool dair spike or in air spinshot (Since it's better then side-b spinshot), and using side-b for everything else. Is that right in my thinking?

 

[jaimex2]

That's all great info, but a few more questions if you don't mind. What defines charge of the different moves(going faster), is it holding, tapping the button again and again? It just seems like when I watch high-level Sonics their spindashes seem to go much faster then mine. Maybe it's just placebo on my end? LOL

And by the description it sounds like I should only be using down-b when going for a down b specific tech like the spinstool dair spike or in air spinshot (Since it's better then side-b spinshot), and using side-b for everything else. Is that right in my thinking?

Charge speed: Side B = holding. Down B = Tapping. I rarely charge up either.

High level play may seem faster because players aim to not telegraph their next move.

Ideally you never release a spin unless you are 80% certain you have a window that can hit. Frolic around poking your opponent but never commit until there is a punish window.

 

[West End]

Really? I almost always full charge my down b before relasing. Benji, what you need to understand is yes, the down b is really only used for down b specific tech, ecxept for mix-ups. The down b is faster and unless you are solid wiuth the animation and sound differences nbetween the two, your opponent will be confused.

Also, just a cool peice of tech I use in my matches... When you are on the ledge, if you fast fall down, short hop, then quikly press and release your side b, then that little hop at the begging of the animation will get you on the stage and start you off with a combo starter. Not good if they read it, but a viable mix up.