Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[GroundZero996]

My friend has one that we used to use for LPs, so I'm going to try and borrow it.

I'll put AT list as a possible thing to do. I think it'd be cool to have a list followed with a video for each tech, or maybe one video would suffice.

One video and time stamp links?

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I was gonna work on one of those videos eventually, but if you guys wanna do it ASAP, go for it!

 

[Camalange]

One video and time stamp links?

Yeah, that might be more manageable.

I was gonna work on one of those videos eventually, but if you guys wanna do it ASAP, go for it!

It doesn't have to be me, I just offered since I know I'd be able to borrow an Elgato. Your Brawl video was brilliant but maybe we should wait and let the game develop a bit before making as comprehensive of a breakdown.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

It doesn't have to be me, I just offered since I know I'd be able to borrow an Elgato. Your Brawl video was brilliant but maybe we should wait and let the game develop a bit before making as comprehensive of a breakdown.

Yeah, and considering how we can have gameplay patches now..

Though I plan to at least gonna update the moveset guide Wii U stuff and gyfcats.

 

[Camalange]

Patches are definitely going to be an issue for keeping consistent information... You said that Sonic's momentum canceling options out of spring are gone now? Like, completely?

 

[Sonic Orochi]

If you want to grab the ledge, you'd best try not to do it.

The best move we have for that now is Bair and even then you'd have to use the Spring from a height that would activate the infamous Brawl Spring Bug..

Momentum cancelling with the air dodge is still great for the 3DS version, though.

 

[Camalange]

Why did that retain in 3DS if both games are supposed to be the same...

I knew that would happen. lol.

 

[Camalange]

UPDATED:

• Fixed up some of the terminology (Ex. Separated Spin Dash Roll and Spin Charge Roll as their own moves)
• Expanded upon certain mechanics (Ex. Instant Spin Dash Jump, Slope Canceling, Spin Dash Shield Cancel, etc.)
• Added more inputs for advanced techniques (as well as updated with C-Stick for Wii U version)

POSSIBLE LIST OF THINGS TO COME

• Even more advanced technique breakdowns (things that aren't overly complicated but carried over from Brawl, like grinding, etc.)
• Video demonstrations for advanced techniques

 

[kataridragon]

Hey I was thinking about doing a breakdown video of his moves as well!!!

I never have the time anyways..... :/

I have the time to play and record but not edit.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Just a thing I noticed: I think we can only slope cancel when using a short hopped SDJ now (the ASAP jump when you hit the ground)..

 

[Camalange]

Just a thing I noticed: I think we can only slope cancel when using a short hopped SDJ now (the ASAP jump when you hit the ground)..

Only? I'm pretty sure I've done it out of an SDR. I don't think I've actually seen it done that way.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I've tested it on Melee's Yoshi's Island and could only slide when using a short hopped SDJ/SCJ.

 

[Camalange]

I've tested it on Melee's Yoshi's Island and could only slide when using a short hopped SDJ/SCJ.

Interesting. What about after the hop of Spin Dash?

 

[Chis]

In this game does Sonic have combos that don't begin with hitting someone with a spin attack or upthowing them?

 

[Camalange]

In this game does Sonic have combos that don't begin with hitting someone with a spin attack or upthowing them?

Oo, I thought of one.

Nair>Utilt

 

[Espy Rose]

Nair combos into anything, and uair, fair, and uthrow all set up into combos.

 

[Camalange]

He said except for spin attacks and uthrow though.

On taller characters, you can sort of WoP Fair, or Fair>Uair.

 

[Gregory2590]

What about Dtilt(trip induced) into a throw? Although, I think people can recover out of the tripping animation quickly.

 

[Camalange]

What about Dtilt(trip induced) into a throw? Although, I think people can recover out of the tripping animation quickly.

That works really well around 8-14% I noticed. I can almost always get a trip > grab.

idk if the recovery on trips are better in this game or not tbh.

 

[iMAGN]

Hey all, great thread with great tips, I recently decided to switch mains to sonic. I've done my research, and I've gotten the timing of most combos down- I've cleaned up rookie sonic mistakes and I consistently beat level 9 cpus of every type. My problem is online play- always at the last moment I feel like Sonics technical edge gives way to weight, brute force or infuriating spam.

Tl;dr online sonic tips?

 

[Camalange]

Hey all, great thread with great tips, I recently decided to switch mains to sonic. I've done my research, and I've gotten the timing of most combos down- I've cleaned up rookie sonic mistakes and I consistently beat level 9 cpus of every type.

Thank you. This all sounds great. Normally I'd say the Lv. 9 CPU thing means next to nothing, but I noticed the AI in this game are actually probably the smartest and most "natural" of any Smash game...

My problem is online play- always at the last moment I feel like Sonics technical edge gives way to weight, brute force or infuriating spam.

Tl;dr online sonic tips?

Honestly... Try not to measure your skills as a player solely through online play. The ultimate test will be in person events.

Sure, online is great for match-up experience and starting to develop how to read and condition opponents, but try not to take it too seriously. Hone mental abilities online and craft execution and ability to deal with pressure offline.

 

[iMAGN]

Thanks man. I guess amongst my friends I'm probably tied for best. I guess I should look for tournaments around me and see how it goes?

 

[Camalange]

Thanks man. I guess amongst my friends I'm probably tied for best. I guess I should look for tournaments around me and see how it goes?

Definitely. That's the only way to find out, no?

It's easy to be better than your friends... It takes those with skill and time to improve beyond that.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Interesting. What about after the hop of Spin Dash?

Welp, finally got to test it more, here are the results:

• Slope Cancelled SDJ/SCJ is gone. We can't transition directly from a roll into neutral stance anymore;
• What we can do, however, is SDR/SCR (I think I'm gonna start calling these Spin Rolls - SR, when stuff is related to both), land the SDJ/SCJ (and these, SJ) and then slide;
• The easiest, consistent way to slide would be to use a single charge SC and then hit up/side on the C-Stick;
• Tested this stuff on Yoshi's Island, so of course results will vary on different angled slopes.

This, however, begs the question: how the **** did that slide occur from a SD on the Pilotwing stage's bridge?

 

[Camalange]

Welp, finally got to test it more, here are the results:

• Slope Cancelled SDJ/SCJ is gone. We can't transition directly from a roll into neutral stance anymore;
• What we can do, however, is SDR/SCR (I think I'm gonna start calling these Spin Rolls - SR, when stuff is related to both), land the SDJ/SCJ (and these, SJ) and then slide;

I did some testing and I was able to slope cancel on Yoshi's... Unless slope canceling works differently, I think you've confused me.

Took video that I'll probably be uploading.

Also, I agree with SR and SJ. That was what I wanted when I started this thread ;_;

• The easiest, consistent way to slide would be to use a single charge SC and then hit up/side on the C-Stick;
• Tested this stuff on Yoshi's Island, so of course results will vary on different angled slopes.

This is true.

This, however, begs the question: how the **** did that slide occur from a SD on the Pilotwing stage's bridge?

The stage was actually Wuhu Island...

... And I have no ****ing clue.

Also, I tested your ASDR mentioned from your thread and will probably be adding it to this thread too.

 

[Intero]

Just a quick question for you guys, when Im going for mix ups or I land a side SD or SC should I finish with Uair or Nair and any reasons you have for why you choose the one you do.


Also, the same for which you choose to do more and why, Side-B or Down-B, I've already read a majority of the stickies as well and havent found anything to justify which special prioritizes over the other, thanks

 

[ROOOOY!]

For me, nair early on in stock for damage racking. Uair later on so it puts them near the top blastzone, and it's not stale. Nair at high %s has much better KB than in brawl though, so maybe it's a brawl habit idk.

As for SD or SC, this thread was on first page.

http://smashboards.com/threads/spin-dash-or-spin-charge.381563/

Not sure it's mentioned there, but I think it's kinda character specific as to which is used more often. As an example, against projectiley nubs I tend to use SD more for many reasons. Shield cancelability (not a word), being able to spinshot from ground (as that's where you should be against them, his aerial maneouverability is not great outside of spinshot). The hop can of SD can go through basically anything too. But yeah, it's preference.

 

[Reksho]

I mainly use Nair since it's the safest one and the most sure to hit of the aerials. It's also the second most damaging aerial after Bair if I recall correctly. After I racked up enough damage, I switch to Uair or Bair if I'm feeling confident as I find it hard to hit.

 

[Crabman]

I have a question

Does anyone ever cancel sonics SD with a roll? I can't believe I just realized he could do this, I knew you could shield cancel it but it never occurred to me to cancel it with a roll. Since a lot of people seem to shield when they see sonic charging up I feel like this could be a great option to get a lot of grabs.

 

[Camalange]

I have a question

Does anyone ever cancel sonics SD with a roll? I can't believe I just realized he could do this, I knew you could shield cancel it but it never occurred to me to cancel it with a roll. Since a lot of people seem to shield when they see sonic charging up I feel like this could be a great option to get a lot of grabs.

I'd rather just dash dance or dash dance pivot into Side-B shield cancels. Gives you way more mobility and options than trying to move via rolling.

 

[Crabman]

I'd rather just dash dance or dash dance pivot into Side-B shield cancels. Gives you way more mobility and options than trying to move via rolling.

I'm not sure what you mean, I don't see how dash dance pivot to side b cancel accomplishes the same thing as cancelling a side b into a roll.

If your opponent is conditioned to shield whenever you side b if you space it correctly I feel like it could lead to a lot of free grabs, or 50/50's where your opponent has to decide if you're going to roll or go through with side b. I'm gonna test it out

 

[Camalange]

I'm not sure what you mean, I don't see how dash dance pivot to side b cancel accomplishes the same thing as cancelling a side b into a roll.

Yes, rolling is an option out of Side-B since you can cancel it with shield... You can also spotdodge. You're essentially in a neutral stance. I don't see the benefits of it other than possibly for movement, as you can almost always do a better option out of Side-B than a dodge roll (which is also why I brought up DD and DDP). Just in general though, there's almost always a better option than dodge rolling (granted it does seem stronger in this game, but still).

If you're initiating a Side-B, this is what they're going to do:

1. Challenge - They'll try to approach. This is when you shield the hit then grab or use other OoS options. Free punish. As I mentioned before, you can also spotdodge but why do that when shielding the hits give you frame advantage? Same goes for a roll. You're just throwing away your advantage.
2. Zone - They'll try to hit you from a distance. This is when (for most projectiles) you release Side-B and either go right through or eat the projectile with the hop, and SDRing to them for a punish. Or you can just play it safe and shield cancel to powershield the hit and still have frame advantage. Buffering a dash OoS in between powershielding projectiles is godlike for Sonic because of his ground speed. Rolling around the hits is a far worse option.
3. Grab - I don't even know if you can be grabbed out of the charge because I never see it. I think it's possible, but the Side-B pulls you back during the charge and you can probably just release the hop to avoid the grab and land the punish. Maybe even spinshot over them. If you're in a position that you're letting yourself get grabbed out of your Side-B charges though there's a way more serious problem at hand.

There are just so many benefits to of acting out of Side-B that rolling seems like a waste of an option. Maybe there's some very specific utility, but I feel like you're just forfeiting your footing and frame advantage in all cases.

If your opponent is conditioned to shield whenever you side b if you space it correctly I feel like it could lead to a lot of free grabs

My point exactly. Just bait the shield and punish. Why would you roll behind someone who is shielding? It's really forecasted, and again, you're throwing away frame advantage when you can just run up to their face and punish. Dropping shield in this game is slower than Brawl if it's not blocking a hit, so empty shields are far more of a liability.

50/50's where your opponent has to decide if you're going to roll or go through with side b. I'm gonna test it out

But it's not a 50/50. There's like, a vast amount of options that Sonic has out of Side-B that should be intimidating your opponent. Dodge rolling is not one of them. They'll just punish your recovery from it.

 

[Sonic is Slow]

I'm having this issue that whenever I ASDJ I always end up SDRing into my ISDJ 5 times

 

[Sonic is Slow]

hahahahaha hey guys I've been working on my ASC's but I can only SDH sometimes after an SDJ

 

[Kinzer]

Pardon me; but, is there an aerial (or action) besides Nair that is reliable out of a Spin Dash (/ Jump) combo at low percents?

For some reason, using Nair to end the combo usually gets me punished because it doesn't send the opponent anywhere. I'm not sure if it's because I'm getting the weak hits, or if Nair just doesn't have safe knockback at such miniscule %s. I would prefer if I wasn't punished for landing this, at least.

Thank you.

 

[Kuraudo]

Pardon me; but, is there an aerial (or action) besides Nair that is reliable out of a Spin Dash (/ Jump) combo at low percents?

For some reason, using Nair to end the combo usually gets me punished because it doesn't send the opponent anywhere. I'm not sure if it's because I'm getting the weak hits, or if Nair just doesn't have safe knockback at such miniscule %s. I would prefer if I wasn't punished for landing this, at least.

Thank you.

I never use NAir at low percents out of Spin Dash. When all else fails, the tried and true FAir/UAir/BAir depending on where they wind up after the Spin Dash is good.

I've done this to mix-up my opponent whose expecting me to follow up. Fast fall down from the Spin Dash and immediately catch them falling (sometimes an Up Smash works).

 

[kataridragon]

Just a quick question for you guys, when Im going for mix ups or I land a side SD or SC should I finish with Uair or Nair and any reasons you have for why you choose the one you do.


Also, the same for which you choose to do more and why, Side-B or Down-B, I've already read a majority of the stickies as well and havent found anything to justify which special prioritizes over the other, thanks

At low percentages:
If I land a sc I go uair>jump>uair>Spring>nair/uair
If I land sd I go nair.

At mid and high I go uair>jump>uair>spring >nair/uair for both

 

[Phill-Bot]

I think Espy is doing what is known as a VSDJ into a grab @1:42, but I don't know how he lands facing the opposite way.
http://youtu.be/Lbk67OMosl8?t=1m42s

How did he do that?

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I think Espy is doing what is known as a VSDJ into a grab @1:42, but I don't know how he lands facing the opposite way.
http://youtu.be/Lbk67OMosl8?t=1m42s

How did he do that?

Hm, looks like a buffered turnaround grab, but I didn't test it or anything.

 

[Camalange]

I think Espy is doing what is known as a VSDJ into a grab @1:42, but I don't know how he lands facing the opposite way.
http://youtu.be/Lbk67OMosl8?t=1m42s

How did he do that?

It is in fact a VSDJ, but it is interesting how quickly he was able to face the opposite way.

I'd have to go with Orochi and say perhaps it was just a buffered turnaround. That's the only thing I can think of.

Sweet mix-up.