Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Phoenix_Dark]

Since I don't see any matchup chart, I'm not sure where I should ask this but just in case: does Sonic have any good moves to bypass Mega Man's projectiles (particularly his Metal Blades and his Mega Buster Jab)? I just ran into trouble with a Mega Man user on For Glory and I dunno how to counter him.

Also, Can I do anything to people who recover low on the ledges?

If they're just spamming it, homing attack will go right over it. Also good for when people think they can hold jab to beat your approach. As people said, springs can be used to annoy enemies recovering low. You can also try dropping off the ledge with f-airs as well. Weak hits can gimp and strong hits will throw them into the stage and spike them if they don't tech it.

 

[Camalange]

Does anyone know how I can cancel my down B early? I noticed that sometimes I'll stop my roll early and I think it could be used pretty nice for setups. How do I control when I stop my downB?

Just don't keep pressing B. If you stop, it loses charge.

 

[Rags]

Just don't keep pressing B. If you stop, it loses charge.

thanks, I found some really cool combos with sonic. like downb into uptilt. Maybe it's cuz I'm used to PM, but I like being in the air with sonic

 

[kataridragon]

thanks, I found some really cool combos with sonic. like downb into uptilt. Maybe it's cuz I'm used to PM, but I like being in the air with sonic

How did u manage down b into up tilt?

 

[Espy Rose]

The only way is if he cancelled his spin by jumping while spinning up a slope.
Since I doubt that's what happened, he probably meant uair or usmash. Probably the former.

 

[kataridragon]

Yeah. I tested that out. You can't combo from spin dash like that even with a meager charge. To bad sonic has to go into his skid animation after.

About air spin dash:
I was testing stuff out and I noticed that a lightly charged air spin dash (idk the acronym) covers distance pretty well. Maybe like a 20 degrees down from a horizontal. Was interesting. Must hold forward to hit. Recovery help?!?

 

[Camalange]

If you're referring to the Down-B, we call it ASC (Aerial Spin Charge).

And yes, holding forward gets you the maximum hits too.

 

[BSP]

I may have passed over it, but I've noticed that if you initiate either spindash in the air, regardless of whether or not you have used your double jump, you lose it.

Darn, passed over it. Well, let me try to add something.

Not being able to shield cancel ASC is going to reduce the viability of FH and SH ASC mixups, as well as make the move more one dimensional, obviously. When I would play Brawlman, he'd get most of his grabs on me by cancelling ASC right in front of me. Now, if Sonic jumps and starts a ASC, shielding is completely safe. People who actually study the Sonic MU are going to be annoying once they know just how limited he is while spinning.

I didn't notice much of a priority increase. Mario's rapid jab still clanks with the spins.

 

[Espy Rose]

ASC lost the shield cancel, but you're playing Sonic's game if you think holding shield is all you need to be safe. Shield pressure is a very real thing.

 

[Camalange]

ASC is still very useful, but it is certainly more of a commitment now that it has lost it's mix-up variety.

 

[kataridragon]

One thing I did notice about forward b is that you can start it then jump and hold shield and even if it charges all the way in the air your shield will cancel it upon landing.

Just something to note.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Nah, if you release it you'll notice that it doesn't charge in the air.

Yep, that jump sucks.

 

[kataridragon]

Really? Lame! It has the animation and everything. I just assumed. Thanks for the heads up.

Yo but check this out. I figured out a sort of running boost grab while fooling around.

What you do is start a run then forward-b, shield, then grab. Quickly but rhythmically. Sonic will jump forward during the spin charge animation then grab. If done correctly you can hear the spin sound. Sonic will maintain his forward momentum and do his standing grab.

Not only does this shoot him forward a little you don't have his whiff animation from a standard running grab and he slides a bit during his stand grab.

Nifty huh?

You can just run, forward b, then grab but the timing is really tight... Like 1frame or so. If you try this way you will most likely just shield. That's why I say to shield then grab.

I can probably make a vid tommorow if some of you don't get it. It was a late night find.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Yea, that's quite well known from Brawl already but Sonic skids so much more in Sm4sh that it makes it specially nice this time around.

But again, too bad the controls are unreliable on the 3DS. Hopefully we'll see more applications of that AT once the Wii U version is released.

 

[kataridragon]

I knew you could cancel your forward b with grab. That's a no brainer. But the fact that this gives you a way better running grab is awesome. There is almost no reason not to do a running grab like this.

 

[Camalange]

I knew you could cancel your forward b with grab. That's a no brainer. But the fact that this gives you a way better running grab is awesome. There is almost no reason not to do a running grab like this.

To quote Sonic Orochi…

Yea, that's quite well known from Brawl already but Sonic skids so much more in Sm4sh that it makes it specially nice this time around.

This same mechanic is in Brawl, but with Sonic's increased grab range, it's only gotten better.

Also, I wouldn't say there's no reason to not use that grab. Having to start and cancel a Side-B requires more time. I'll almost always opt for a regular running grab for the fastest punish, but this has it's own uses.

 

[kataridragon]

Either way it's definitely a cool trick that's worth learning.

 

[Camalange]

For sure. You can also pivot it if you haven't tried that yet.

 

[kataridragon]

For sure. You can also pivot it if you haven't tried that yet.

Ya I checked that out to very interesting stuff.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

I assume most have noticed this by now, but I haven't seen it mentioned. So for the FAQ's sake, spin charge and spin dash no longer roll right on past banana peels. IIRC, they now just pop you out of your spin and then vanish. They definitely do not make you trip on them, but they will stop you in your tracks. Thankfully, banana peels aren't as insane as they were in Brawl, so this is more of a trade off.

Edit: This would be much better off in the changes from brawl to smash 4 thread, but I'm too lazy to do that right now.

 

[Camalange]

Yeah, I feel like I'm trying to keep this more mechanic-centric and general as opposed to very specifics like that. It is important to note though, and maybe we can incorporate the changes from Brawl to Sm4sh in here too? I could divide the FAQ into sections.

So like, does spindash clash with bananas or something if you don't trip? Since they make you stop I imagine it must work like that in a way.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Yeah from what I remember, it clashes, pops you into a standing position and the peel vanishes. As for thrown peels, I'd assume they'd cause a trip on impact. I believe that's how it worked in brawl. Yeah I should've posted this in the other thread for sure. The thread names are so long that I tend to forget which one I'm browsing lol

 

[Camalange]

UPDATES:

Decided to keep old terminology from Brawl Sonic. Trying to change that will inevitably lead to failure. Added the following.

ISDJ = Instant Spin Dash Jump [Spin Dash Jump done immediately after inputting Side-B during a run]*
* Reference this for now: http://smashboards.com/threads/new-...-instant-spin-dash-jump.373605/#post-17792767

^ Will give a more detailed breakdown with this information.

VSDJ2 = Vertical Spin Dash Jump 2 [Spin Dash Jump done out of Spin Dash that retains it's charge]*
* Cannot be done with Spin Charge.

This is what I'm naming that stupid Side-B jump that retains it's charge but can't be interrupted without it touching the ground first. I think someone suggested something like VSDCJ (C for Charge) but I felt that'd be too confusing since we have Spin Charge and this can only be done from Spin Dash... Thus, Vertical Spin Dash Jump... THE SEQUEL.

Did some other **** too probably I don't know I'm very sporadic with this so if you ever see things or lack of things in the OP just let me know.

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

This is completely off topic but has anyone tried Stutter Step (that ever useful forward smash tech) on the 3DS?

 

[Camalange]

Not off-topic! This is the point of having a FAQ Questions are encouraged and welcomed!

Yeah, stutter stepping is even easier now actually. Not that it was even difficult to begin with, but I feel like just with the nature of the controls on 3DS I end up stutter stepping smashes more than just doing them normally.

 

[Gregory2590]

Can we please talk about how underused Sonic's Fair juggling is?

 

[Camalange]

Fair is really effective against people who airdodge right as you jump. I do a lot of empty hops > double jump > Fair to bait an airdodge and punish.

 

[Gregory2590]

Honestly, it makes me wonder how I went around in Brawl without realizing how useful it is.

 

[infomon]

That's also how I play Pika. Fair, Fair, Fair.

 

[Camalange]

I also hate that the video is called "pseudoish" wop. "Pseudo" basically already means "ish" so when you add "ish" to "psuedo" you're just admitting that it's nowhere near being a wop and it's just a bunch of SH Fairs that someone is not reacting to at all.

 

[Gregory2590]

I also hate that the video is called "pseudoish" wop. "Pseudo" basically already means "ish" so when you add "ish" to "psuedo" you're just admitting that it's nowhere near being a wop and it's just a bunch of SH Fairs that someone is not reacting to at all.

....Isn't that the point?

 

[Camalange]

No? Pseudo-ish is redundant. It also only further shows that it's not really an option. That's like me making a video called "Pseudoish wall of pain" and I just do a bunch of bairs. It's not a wop, or even close to a wop, it's just me landing bairs on a ragdoll. You could make a video like this with almost every character… A pseudo wop would be more of a wop that someone just DI'd (VI'd? lol) improperly to, which is still an option, but not necessarily a good one against people who know ****. A pseudo-ish wop is again, redundant, and just means nothing. Might as well be like, "Hey, did you know you could hit someone with an aerial? Then also hit them again with the same aerial later?"

 

[infomon]

u mad bro

10supermadbros

 

[JamesUK7]

What is the best way to get around an opponent that shields either Sonic's Side B or Down B because when I go through the shield and jump I usually get punished by an Up Air or something, should I try not jumping and go right past them or perhaps Up B to safety?

 

[Espy Rose]

Drop a spring right after jumping. Not all the time, but on occasion. If they jump to aerial, they'll get popped by it. Otherwise, don't jump and just keep spinning away. Just make sure you have your double jump if you intend to spin offstage.

 

[JamesUK7]

@ Espy Rose Alright thanks man, I'll try to react depending on whether I hit them or if I hit the shield.

 

[Camalange]

I happened to have a rough day at my job which is centered around "language consulting" so I may have extended part of my frustration from that to here, but I celebrated my friends 21st birthday and had a couple drinks and I suddenly care less now.

Spring is good, but also just be less predictable with spindash in general. It's really easy to punish if you fall into auto-pilot patterns. Don't forget there's a lot of things you can do out of Side-B for mix-ups (shield cancel, spinshot, ISDJ, etc.) to keep your opponent guessing. You don't even have to connect spindash against their shield. Sometime I SDJ before reaching them and jump over stuff or I HA them to punish a reaction.

 

[Espy Rose]

In addition, you always have the VSDJ if you feel like the spin you're charging would set you up for something bad. Try what you can to think about your spin as you start it up. Whether or not it's safe, or if they can react to it, or if you can mix them up or condition them to act out of it in a certain way.

 

[Funkermonster]

Would a Dash Attack-Canceled Grab be a good idea for Sonic (heard it increases grab range slightly in past games, dunno if it workes here) if I wanna go for a dash grab sometimes? And what's a good way to setup or find opportunities to use SideB or DownB so I don't get shielded? I've had a terrible habit of using Spin Charge to approach and rack up damage fast and now I'm trying to break out of it, but I still want to cause some damage with it.

Also the best possible stage choice for this character? I just wanna know before I enter a tournament. And what's a spinshot? I keep hearing about it but I have no idea what it is.

 

[kataridragon]

Would a Dash Attack-Canceled Grab be a good idea for Sonic (heard it increases grab range slightly in past games, dunno if it workes here) if I wanna go for a dash grab sometimes? And what's a good way to setup or find opportunities to use SideB or DownB so I don't get shielded? I've had a terrible habit of using Spin Charge to approach and rack up damage fast and now I'm trying to break out of it, but I still want to cause some damage with it.

Also the best possible stage choice for this character? I just wanna know before I enter a tournament. And what's a spinshot? I keep hearing about it but I have no idea what it is.

Dash attack cancel grab?
Dash attack canceled grab is mainly for mind games. The opponent hears the spin noise but gets grabbed.

Openings for spin specials?
Be more thoughtful of your spin dashes. Cancel spin charge with shield. Do vertical spin charges/dashes. Aerial spin charge... Etc. Mix it up. Catch people as they land on the ground.

Best stage?
Final Destinations. IMO.

Spin shot?
Do a Forward b, then as soon as you release hit jump. Sonic will fly forward in a long jump fashion. Kinda neat.