Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Camalange]

@ Camalange

I effin love you so much. Now I can perform this. Just gotta get committed to muscle memory. Great video. Clarified everything for me.

I once was lost but now am found.

<3

I'm stoked to hear that, man.

That's the spirit!

 

[Swiffy22]

Informative video, good music choice. Nice!

 

[Camalange]

Informative video, good music choice. Nice!

Thanks!

Is there anything you guys would maybe like to see different if I did future videos?

 

[Swiffy22]

Some timed input graphics, like the ones on the "How to Play" video, is really the only improvement I can think of. I'm still having trouble timing when I need to switch from Down to Left/Right for the ASC short hop, but that's just me not being used to it.

 

[Kinzer]

You should probably leave a disclaimer for people who aren't using a gamecube controller. Apparently, there are people out there who prefer otherwise...

... Anyway, aside from that small nit-pick, I say good work!

 

[Camalange]

Some timed input graphics, like the ones on the "How to Play" video, is really the only improvement I can think of. I'm still having trouble timing when I need to switch from Down to Left/Right for the ASC short hop, but that's just me not being used to it.

I really wanted to do input graphics, but there's already so many ways to do Spinshot that it would've really held the video back even longer and I just needed to release it and get it out there. Making those graphic slides would've consumed so much more time on my end, but it's something I'd like to try and do for different tech videos perhaps.

You should probably leave a disclaimer for people who aren't using a gamecube controller. Apparently, there are people out there who prefer otherwise…

The only Gamecube specific thing is C-stick, but almost every set-up has a second stick outside of 3DS. Unless you're playing with a Wiimote or something, A, B, X, and Y are pretty universal (plus I even sometimes just refer to "attack" or "jump" instead of always listing a button. Besides that, just felt it was easier to use Gamecube as the standard since that's been the way forever and still is primarily the case, and it's not too hard to translate what each button is mapped to on a different scheme since it's so ingrained into Smash labeling anyway.

... Anyway, aside from that small nit-pick, I say good work!

Thank you! I definitely appreciate all the nit-picking. Even if I don't choose to use all the suggestions, it helps me think about how I go about future videos so I like hearing back from everyone.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Remember seeing a while ago that people reported two spring activations in midair whilst recovering. Did we ever figure that one out? Happened to me today playing a Kirby and it confused the hell outta me.

 

[Kinzer]

Remember seeing a while ago that people reported two spring activations in midair whilst recovering. Did we ever figure that one out? Happened to me today playing a Kirby and it confused the hell outta me.

You probably got footstooled.

 

[Camalange]

Remember seeing a while ago that people reported two spring activations in midair whilst recovering. Did we ever figure that one out? Happened to me today playing a Kirby and it confused the hell outta me.

Ya done been footstool'd, boy.

 

[ROOOOY!]

What a scrub. Would that not have sent the Kirby up with me though? If I did get footstooled, i sprang immediately afterward before I could see the animation. That and I didn't input up B again.

 

[Camalange]

What a scrub. Would that not have sent the Kirby up with me though? If I did get footstooled, i sprang immediately afterward before I could see the animation.

The animation is masked sometimes, like if they get the FSJ as you're rising and other weird situational specifics.

That and I didn't input up B again.

You might've mashed it or something without realizing it. I can't imagine any other answer, as this was something that happened in Brawl as well.

 

[A10theHero]

Hey guys! Other than the Spinshot, are there any other known advanced techniques with Sonic? If so, how do I perform them?

 

[Retro X]

In your experience as a Sonic main/player, what are Sonic's 3 worst matchups and why? And how does one reliably stuff the spin dash when it's coming at you?

Personally I have trouble fighting Sonic more than any other character and my lack of experience against good Sonics doesn't help, I expected this would be the best place to learn what works against him. Thankyou.

 

[Tachyon3]

Hey everybody! I just wanted to let the Sonic mains know how much I appreciate the fact they work so hard to provide information and really help new people with the learn the ins and outs of the character. I started going to tournaments in January as a Duck Hunt main and won my first local tournament! As weeklies went by people started figuring me out so I picked up Pikachu a few weeks ago and was interested in Sonic!


So last week I've been reading all the forums and guides plus all the comments from you guys on almost every thread and went into the lab and just came back from my tournament and didn't lose a single match! A lot of people say how the sonic mains aren't organized on here and don't help out but that is soo false. All of you guys are awesome and provide the most informative guides! I hope time goes on I can join you guys in your discussions and be apart of this group! I am curious though about the Sonic and Fox MU? I didn't want to ask on the MU thread cause it's on Sonic dittos at the moment haha. Thank you guys for your time!

 

[Gregory2590]

A lot of people say how the sonic mains aren't organized on here and don't help out but that is soo false. /quote]

To be honest, this was sort of true before Apex..

 

[Swiffy22]

In your experience as a Sonic main/player, what are Sonic's 3 worst matchups and why? And how does one reliably stuff the spin dash when it's coming at you?

Personally I have trouble fighting Sonic more than any other character and my lack of experience against good Sonics doesn't help, I expected this would be the best place to learn what works against him. Thankyou.

In my experience, Rob, Rosalina, and Sheik are the worst. Rob and Sheik both have some annoying, quick, and lingering hitboxes on their projectile moves. Makes it harder to approach. Rosalina is just...difficult. I'm not sure what it is, but it seems like quite a few of her moves have lingering hitboxes as well. And there's the pesky Luma too. Anyway, characters with quick projectiles are bothersome, but don't expect it to be a huge advantage. Spjnshot into jab seems to work in my favor most of the time, especially at the start of the match.

 

[ROOOOY!]

ROB matches seem to time out on me more often than not. Both characters play it safe, and neither can kill each other reliably. I wouldn't say its difficult as much as tedious.

 

[SonicMario]

The wait is over.

Thanks everyone for being patient with me on this one. I really hope this clears up any problems and misconceptions about Spinshot from now on. I'll be including this in the OP of the thread as well as updating the phrasing later to make it more consistent with what I used in this video.

Would love to get feedback and critique on this video as well. If you guys like this sort of approach, I can continue doing it with Sonic's other techniques.

May I ask how to do the spinshot without the C-Stick input as an attack? In the video you seem to spinshot without doing some sort of aerial attack at the end yet everytime I try any input I try with the C-Stick at the end it doesn't end up being like the movement you show in the video. Maybe ending it with an aerial is good for attack as there may have been a few times I've done it. But still, it's not like the examples shown at the beginning just yet where you don't have an attack at the end.

 

[Retro X]

In my experience, Rob, Rosalina, and Sheik are the worst. Rob and Sheik both have some annoying, quick, and lingering hitboxes on their projectile moves. Makes it harder to approach. Rosalina is just...difficult. I'm not sure what it is, but it seems like quite a few of her moves have lingering hitboxes as well. And there's the pesky Luma too. Anyway, characters with quick projectiles are bothersome, but don't expect it to be a huge advantage. Spjnshot into jab seems to work in my favor most of the time, especially at the start of the match.

Thanks for the information, I secondary Rosa and actually struggle against Sonic with her but I speculated that Sheik might fare better. I'll just have to work on my Sheik some more.

 

[Camalange]

Hey guys! Other than the Spinshot, are there any other known advanced techniques with Sonic? If so, how do I perform them?

There are plenty, so please refer to the OP for more. The most technical/flashy outside of Spinshot is Instant Spin Dash Jump, which is what I'll be doing my next video on. Then of course Side-B shield cancels, but that's basic.

In your experience as a Sonic main/player, what are Sonic's 3 worst matchups and why? And how does one reliably stuff the spin dash when it's coming at you?

Rosaluma, Sheik, and Olimar.

Sonic can't deal with characters who zone him out and shut him down. As simple as that. His approaches and landing options are incredibly unsafe, so any character who can force him into those positions, whether it's by pressure or having a stupid amount of hitboxes to zone with, and really capitalizing hard on those things, will be a nightmare.

In my experience, Rob, Rosalina, and Sheik are the worst. Rob and Sheik both have some annoying, quick, and lingering hitboxes on their projectile moves. Makes it harder to approach. Rosalina is just...difficult. I'm not sure what it is, but it seems like quite a few of her moves have lingering hitboxes as well. And there's the pesky Luma too. Anyway, characters with quick projectiles are bothersome, but don't expect it to be a huge advantage. Spjnshot into jab seems to work in my favor most of the time, especially at the start of the match.

I honestly don't think ROB is that bad for us. The ROB boards are currently discussing the match-up, so if you want to check it out I give my two cents there, and you can read on what other people said too.

http://smashboards.com/threads/r-o-b-matchup-analysis-4-sonic.392455/#post-18668888[/SIZE]

Hey everybody! I just wanted to let the Sonic mains know how much I appreciate the fact they work so hard to provide information and really help new people with the learn the ins and outs of the character. I started going to tournaments in January as a Duck Hunt main and won my first local tournament! As weeklies went by people started figuring me out so I picked up Pikachu a few weeks ago and was interested in Sonic!


So last week I've been reading all the forums and guides plus all the comments from you guys on almost every thread and went into the lab and just came back from my tournament and didn't lose a single match! A lot of people say how the sonic mains aren't organized on here and don't help out but that is soo false. All of you guys are awesome and provide the most informative guides! I hope time goes on I can join you guys in your discussions and be apart of this group! I am curious though about the Sonic and Fox MU? I didn't want to ask on the MU thread cause it's on Sonic dittos at the moment haha. Thank you guys for your time!

This warms my cold heart. Thank you.

Also, who told you that? I will (duck) hunt them down.

I personally don't have a lot of experience in the Fox MU, but from what I've gathered it's incredibly momentum based. Sonic does fine against him, but if Fox gets his way he can really apply pressure and get really early kills.

Thank you again for your kind input, and it'd be a pleasure to see you around again. Take your time; there's nothing wrong with lurking. Since you've already spent so much time reading through our forum then I'm sure you wouldn't do anything to anger me... Right?

May I ask how to do the spinshot without the C-Stick input as an attack? In the video you seem to spinshot without doing some sort of aerial attack at the end yet everytime I try any input I try with the C-Stick at the end it doesn't end up being like the movement you show in the video. Maybe ending it with an aerial is good for attack as there may have been a few times I've done it. But still, it's not like the examples shown at the beginning just yet where you don't have an attack at the end.

I'm a bit confused. What do you have C-stick set to? I'm not sure if setting C-stick to tilts works (I considered testing it but the list of inputs was already really long) but I'd imagine it would work since it's still at it's core set as an attack button.

As long as you get the initial C-stick flick and go into a Spinshot you should be fine... Maybe you're holding C-Stick or hitting it again after you Spinshot?

 

[Swiffy22]

Thanks for the information, I secondary Rosa and actually struggle against Sonic with her but I speculated that Sheik might fare better. I'll just have to work on my Sheik some more.

Just a forewarning: don't get too wrapped in learning counterpicks. It's best to just find that one character that you wholly enjoy playing as, and then flesh them out as much as you can. That's not to say it's bad to learn new characters. It's good to get in your opponents heads and learn a characters limitations that you can take advantage of. And occasionally while playing another character, you'll run across some tech or pattern of thinking that never occurred to you that you can bring back to your main. So branch out, but always keep your main in mind. It'll help in the long run.

I honestly don't think ROB is that bad for us. The ROB boards are currently discussing the match-up, so if you want to check it out I give my two cents there, and you can read on what other people said too.

http://smashboards.com/threads/r-o-b-matchup-analysis-4-sonic.392455/#post-18668888[/SIZE]

Thanks for the link. Nice write-up in that topic as well. It's true that ROB is more tedious than anything. Of the three I listed, he was definitely the more even match up.


So, I'm looking to get a little more input here. I'm struggling to try and push myself to the next level, as far as basic gameplay goes, and trying to shake off a few old habits from Brawl. Watching videos of 6wx and the like, my movement just feels really sluggish in comparison. And I think I've pinned the root of that problem to roll dodging. Playing Kirby in Brawl, it just sort of became a habit. In competitive play, I see a lot of tanking hits with the shield and then grabbing or acting out of them, which feels like an obvious improvement I should be working on. I've just got to work on that urge to dodge at every opportunity. So the question is, when is it appropriate to roll/spot dodge? That's what I really can't pin down. I know I use it too much, but I don't fully understand what situations would call for it.

On a similar note, would practicing against some level 9s while I've got a high handicap seem like a wise suggestion? Part of me feels like I'm letting myself take too many unnecessary hits, the other part believes that it's just part of being an offensive player. I was definitely a campy Kirby in Brawl; definitely don't want to go back to that. It would definitely make me more attentive, but I fear that could be a bad thing.

And as a less important detail, I've noticed some high level Sonics doing skid to stop and dashing in the opposite direction. I did a little testing with it a few weeks back, and skid to stop was usually slower than just regularly turning around. Is it truly faster, or is it just some visual trickery to throw people off?

 

[ROOOOY!]

Roll or spotdodge against characters it's difficult to get in on (think Olimar etc). Others you can afford to be less patient approaching sometimes running away can be a better option. People can read defensive options and punish you for them. No ones keeping up with you to punish if you just run away, just don't run from characters who can hassle you from range. I feel like I play sluggish too, on the ground I'm fine, I just find myself floating around aimlessly sometimes. I've played Sonic since Brawl, so I've no excuse, I just suck.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

So I don't main Sonic, I main Kirby, but I played against an amazing Sonic yesterday. I would lose/barely win, but then something weird happened.

So I b-throw the Sonic, but he up-bs at the exact time he touches the ground from the throw (Where Kirby flips him upsidedown) and we both get launched into the air by his spring. Basically, I was in the b-throw animation when he is in my arms, and he sprang, and we both went up. It was like frame perfect.

I usually record my matches, but I forgot t save it and I didn't start recording. Is this tech already known, or was it just a glitch?

 

[Tachyon3]

This warms my cold heart. Thank you.

Also, who told you that? I will (duck) hunt them down.

I personally don't have a lot of experience in the Fox MU, but from what I've gathered it's incredibly momentum based. Sonic does fine against him, but if Fox gets his way he can really apply pressure and get really early kills.

Thank you again for your kind input, and it'd be a pleasure to see you around again. Take your time; there's nothing wrong with lurking. Since you've already spent so much time reading through our forum then I'm sure you wouldn't do anything to anger me... Right?

Cold heart? From what I've seen you're very nice and warm if not angered hahaha. You are welcome though! I know from reading in the forums you have a strong presence here and have such extensive knowledge about Sonic! Also when I was fighting this Fox player in friendlies, he would do that jab combo that would have you stuck and found out you can just spring out of it after the first hit or so. Thank you once again for your input All this information goes a loooooooong wayy haha.

 

[Camalange]

So I don't main Sonic, I main Kirby, but I played against an amazing Sonic yesterday. I would lose/barely win, but then something weird happened.

So I b-throw the Sonic, but he up-bs at the exact time he touches the ground from the throw (Where Kirby flips him upsidedown) and we both get launched into the air by his spring. Basically, I was in the b-throw animation when he is in my arms, and he sprang, and we both went up. It was like frame perfect.

I usually record my matches, but I forgot t save it and I didn't start recording. Is this tech already known, or was it just a glitch?

That is odd. It's known that Sonic can send other people flying with him after a spring if it's timed and spaced correctly... Can you help educate me a bit on Kirby? I'd imagine that Sonic should've still been in hitstun, but he broke out of the throw by springing out, which caught you and canceled your animation taking you with him? That's interesting...

Cold heart? From what I've seen you're very nice and warm if not angered hahaha. You are welcome though! I know from reading in the forums you have a strong presence here and have such extensive knowledge about Sonic! Also when I was fighting this Fox player in friendlies, he would do that jab combo that would have you stuck and found out you can just spring out of it after the first hit or so. Thank you once again for your input All this information goes a loooooooong wayy haha.

<3

 

[Swiffy22]

I finally got the ASC Spinshot down! It took me a while before I realized you had to tap B a second time. Camalange, your video isn't entirely idiot proof. But I'm glad to have that trick learned now, thanks again for the tutorial.

I'm trying to find some good ways to practice alone, seeing as it seems no one in my city plays. I work at the only place that sells Smash Wii U here, and I was the only one who bought a copy for two weeks. :/ Anyway, I hate the latency online. I bought a usb adapter and still don't like it. But I still try to practice at least half as much online as I do with level 9s. I don't know which one is really helping me more.

If I upload what I consider a good match for me, would you guys be willing to watch it and critique me? I think I may be due for a small break. Feels like I'm starting to hit a wall...

 

[Sonic Orochi]

You can also simply hold down and wait for the single ASC charge before flicking the C-stick left/up/right.

 

[Gregory2590]

So I don't main Sonic, I main Kirby, but I played against an amazing Sonic yesterday. I would lose/barely win, but then something weird happened.

So I b-throw the Sonic, but he up-bs at the exact time he touches the ground from the throw (Where Kirby flips him upsidedown) and we both get launched into the air by his spring. Basically, I was in the b-throw animation when he is in my arms, and he sprang, and we both went up. It was like frame perfect.

I usually record my matches, but I forgot t save it and I didn't start recording. Is this tech already known, or was it just a glitch?

Although I very highly doubt it, maybe he teched it and then sprang immediately?

 

[Camalange]

I finally got the ASC Spinshot down! It took me a while before I realized you had to tap B a second time. Camalange, your video isn't entirely idiot proof. But I'm glad to have that trick learned now, thanks again for the tutorial.

Doing it off of more than one charge makes it a little easier, but you definitely can do it from a single charge, as Orochi explained.

I'm trying to find some good ways to practice alone, seeing as it seems no one in my city plays. I work at the only place that sells Smash Wii U here, and I was the only one who bought a copy for two weeks. :/ Anyway, I hate the latency online. I bought a usb adapter and still don't like it. But I still try to practice at least half as much online as I do with level 9s. I don't know which one is really helping me more.

If I upload what I consider a good match for me, would you guys be willing to watch it and critique me? I think I may be due for a small break. Feels like I'm starting to hit a wall...

When I practice alone, I focus mostly on movement and things like that. Battling online or versus level 9s can lead to really bad habits so I avoid those as much as possible... Even if you can find literally anyone offline that's near your skill level to play against, that will help you push each other to get better.

Although I very highly doubt it, maybe he teched it and then sprang immediately?

Can Kirby's Bthrow be teched?

 

[Tachyon3]

I think I have read in the forums somewhere of how random and weird homing attack is and was wondering if anyone had any updated information on how it works? I was playing some friendlies on Halberd and got sent to the bottom right corner of the map where I couldn't even see Sonic and figured I would just use homing attack because I wasn't going to make it with the spring. So I charge it up and it goes all the way back to the stage! It traveled so far! Then there are other instances in which I'm like 5 inches away from the edge and I drop straight down and I'm just like Homing Attack whyyyyyyy???

Is there any clarification you wonderful sonic mains can provide me with the use of homing attack or is it just the byproduct of Sakurai trolling us? Thank you guys for your time!

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I think I have read in the forums somewhere of how random and weird homing attack is and was wondering if anyone had any updated information on how it works? I was playing some friendlies on Halberd and got sent to the bottom right corner of the map where I couldn't even see Sonic and figured I would just use homing attack because I wasn't going to make it with the spring. So I charge it up and it goes all the way back to the stage! It traveled so far! Then there are other instances in which I'm like 5 inches away from the edge and I drop straight down and I'm just like Homing Attack whyyyyyyy???

Is there any clarification you wonderful sonic mains can provide me with the use of homing attack or is it just the byproduct of Sakurai trolling us? Thank you guys for your time!

http://smashboards.com/threads/sonic-guide-faq-ask-questions-here.371222/page-7#post-18446612

Refer to my SSBB guide, if needed (link in signature).

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

sonic vs ZSS is still infuriating.... especially given the fact that she gets guaranteed KO setups from bthrow into down b at like 30% and then dsmash short hop nair into down B at like 60%. That and while her grab isn't very safe running from spin dash and pivot grabbing tends to work well. Could just be that i'm getting a mental block vs ZSS but the MU feels like one that not in our favor.

 

[Arikie]

Can someone give me an idea of when exactly sonic's SideB and Upsmash are invulnerable? Can attacks clang with them even during the invulnerable frames?

 

[Gregory2590]

Can Kirby's Bthrow be teched?

Beats me. Which is why I had high doubts.

 

[Swiffy22]

I figured out why I've been having so much trouble with ASD spinshot. I tried it again with Default instead of customs. Had absolutely no difficulty with 1 press whatsoever. For whatever reason, Hammer Spin Dash makes it so you need at least 2 B presses to do this. I could be wrong, but I've tried them both quite a few times.

When I practice alone, I focus mostly on movement and things like that. Battling online or versus level 9s can lead to really bad habits so I avoid those as much as possible... Even if you can find literally anyone offline that's near your skill level to play against, that will help you push each other to get better.

I have a few friends that live about an hour and a half away that would be great and are interested in competitive. Unfortunately, we don't get to meet up often. I'll be moving to a larger city soon though, so I'm hoping I can meet some people then.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I think you meant ASC and yes, HSD requires you to charge the ASC at least twice in order for the Spinshot to actually work.

That is covered in the custom moves section in the moveset thread, but.. oh well.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Can someone give me an idea of when exactly sonic's SideB and Upsmash are invulnerable? Can attacks clang with them even during the invulnerable frames?

Side B is during the first frames of the hop. Usmash, if its the same as brawl, is at the apex of the rise. But usmash is ****ing weird, we really need to play round with it more. Up B is invincible too initially.

 

[Kinzer]

sonic vs ZSS is still infuriating.... especially given the fact that she gets guaranteed KO setups from bthrow into down b at like 30% and then dsmash short hop nair into down B at like 60%. That and while her grab isn't very safe running from spin dash and pivot grabbing tends to work well. Could just be that i'm getting a mental block vs ZSS but the MU feels like one that not in our favor.

How often do you get to play the matchup, sir?

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

i don't get to play it often sadly.

 

[Kinzer]

i don't get to play it often sadly.

That's probably part of the problem.

It caught me off guard the first time too.

Then I went through every hoop and hurdle to make sure ZSS never had her back facing off stage with me. Or if she did, I wouldn't let her land the grab.