Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Camalange]

Kinzer confirmed to avoid having the booty facing him.

 

[Tachyon3]

Refer to my SSBB guide, if needed (link in signature).[/quote]
Thank you for pointing me in the right direction! That video was also super helpful. Even though it is a different games and some things are different the fundamentals are still there and I felt like I understand Sonic a bit more from watching your guide! I really appreciate it!

 

[Swiffy22]

I think you meant ASC and yes, HSD requires you to charge the ASC at least twice in order for the Spinshot to actually work.

That is covered in the custom moves section in the moveset thread, but.. oh well.

Yes, I meant ASC. And sorry for missing the info again. :/ I've read through it, but it's been a few months.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I know this is an already known tech but..

http://gfycat.com/UnhealthyHeavenlyFlyingfish

Looks really neat.

Also, on a side note, while I know the matchup thread will eventually cover this, I'd like to know if anyone could give me some general pointers on the Fox MU.

I feel like that's (yet) another one that's slightly against us.

 

[Camalange]

I know this is an already known tech but..

http://gfycat.com/UnhealthyHeavenlyFlyingfish

Looks really neat.

Haha, I actually didn't know Sonic got that much of a slide from it.

You can do a similar mechanic in place too without the ledge, but you don't get as drastic of a slide. I think Utilt is one of his only moves that carries his momentum during it though... Most characters can Dsmash but I don't think Sonic is one of them. All of his moves make him stop in place except for Utilt iirc.

 

[BlackPhantom]

Haha, I actually didn't know Sonic got that much of a slide from it.

You can do a similar mechanic in place too without the ledge, but you don't get as drastic of a slide. I think Utilt is one of his only moves that carries his momentum during it though... Most characters can Dsmash but I don't think Sonic is one of them. All of his moves make him stop in place except for Utilt iirc.

U mean perfect pivot?

 

[Camalange]

U mean perfect pivot?

Nope.

Perfect pivot is different. There's a mechanic that abuses the slide from the turnaround animation, and it can be lengthened by doing it along a ledge, like in that gif.

 

[Crabman]

I know this is an already known tech but..

http://gfycat.com/UnhealthyHeavenlyFlyingfish

Looks really neat.

Also, on a side note, while I know the matchup thread will eventually cover this, I'd like to know if anyone could give me some general pointers on the Fox MU.

I feel like that's (yet) another one that's slightly against us.

Wow that looks crazy, what is that tech called exactly? I'd like to look it up and learn it if for nothing else to get a laugh out of people I'm playing against

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Wow that looks crazy, what is that tech called exactly? I'd like to look it up and learn it if for nothing else to get a laugh out of people I'm playing against

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I really, really wish that BSBS gets patched at some point. Every time it happens i always feel like it was an oversight in coding how sonic transitions from his air state to his landing state during his spin attacks. That or if it was indeed intentional that it's changed. Though i feel like people haven't been very vocal as far as making people aware it's a thing that needs changing. At least outside of the sonic boards anyway.

 

[Camalange]

I really, really wish that BSBS gets patched at some point. Every time it happens i always feel like it was an oversight in coding how sonic transitions from his air state to his landing state during his spin attacks. That or if it was indeed intentional that it's changed. Though i feel like people haven't been very vocal as far as making people aware it's a thing that needs changing. At least outside of the sonic boards anyway.

Why would anyone else want to help out our character? We're literally the only ones who'd care.

 

[ROOOOY!]

That and I doubt anyone outside of the boards knows what it is. My impression is that people see acronyms and are like **** that ****. Even if we didn't abbreviate I doubt people would make an effort to understand the difference between moves unless they were interested in picking up the character. I don't know about anyone else, but I lurk most other character boards cos I don't want to go up against someone and be like 'wut they doin?' Even the dead ones, looking at you DK boards.

To be honest, patching cypher grabbing was one more improvement than I thought we'd get.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

i still feel like if we improved awareness that this is a thing, that it could be fixed. Similar to what happened with cypher grabbing. Granted i don't think anyone has even recorded footage of this thing on its own and claimed it as a bug/glitch (which i'm very inclined to believe it is).

 

[Sonic Orochi]

So, should I save BSBS for the big tutorial vid (which has like.. only 1 new tech, I think? ISDJ, that is) or make a separate one just for BSBS and all its glorious BSness?

edit: already have a thumbnail if a BSBS-only vid is made

Spoiler

 

[Camalange]

i still feel like if we improved awareness that this is a thing, that it could be fixed. Similar to what happened with cypher grabbing. Granted i don't think anyone has even recorded footage of this thing on its own and claimed it as a bug/glitch (which i'm very inclined to believe it is).

The difference there is that cypher grabbing didn't effect just Sonic...

So, should I save BSBS for the big tutorial vid (which has like.. only 1 new tech, I think? ISDJ, that is) or make a separate one just for BSBS and all its glorious BSness?

edit: already have a thumbnail if a BSBS-only vid is made

Spoiler

I think you'd probably explain BSBS best. I was thinking of doing my next video on ISDJ since the Spinshot video went over well, but I'd trust you to properly break down the BS that is BSBS better than myself. Perhaps we could even collab or something...? Who knows, lol.

 

[ROOOOY!]

Oralange productions? Definitely be more digestible for the uninitiated if they're put in separate videos.

 

[Camalange]

Oralange productions? Definitely be more digestible for the uninitiated if they're put in separate videos.

I agree. I'd be down with covering ISDJ if you wanted to cover BSBS, @ Sonic Orochi . We can compare notes as well as discuss over messages to make sure both of our videos have the proper content.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Haha, sure. I'll start working on something after this weekend's tourney.

 

[Kinzer]

Also, on a side note, while I know the matchup thread will eventually cover this, I'd like to know if anyone could give me some general pointers on the Fox MU.

I feel like that's (yet) another one that's slightly against us.

Fox is really stupid.

Espy has said it before, it's a momentum-based MU. If you have it, you feel like a god. Lose it, and you are at the mercy of the opponent.

I played SK92 a couple of weeks ago, and he plays Fox in this game now that Falco is poopy; and he plays against me like a gaylord. And if that word is censored, I'm basically saying he ran away from me despite how much he praises flashiness and prefers aggressiveness. Needless to say, I was not ready for him to run away from me the entire match.

Anytime I approach with a spin dash, he would just double jump away and go to the other side of the stage. With that said, I'm telling you to not make the same mistake I did and go with a more neutral approach... like running.

I played too much auto-pilot and approached too much when I did hold the lead over him. What I should've done in that time was have him come to me or at least respect that I was past his safe-zone. One thing that would probably help is to make him use his double jump while you're on the ground and run to where he might land and punish from there. I think you might be able to challenge anything he has with a properly spaced Back air; but, if not, you can just shark with Uairs. And if he gets past that, you should be ready to put him back in the air with a quick dash attack, or possibly FTilt to push him off stage or something.

If you're feeling really ballsy, you can probably USmash. It isn't like Fox has too many places to go given that he's a fast-faller.

That's all I got for you. Frankly, I need to learn the matchup myself, and I need to get into the mentality that if he's going to do that s*** to me, I should play to win without any regard for how much "fun" he or I will have for that particular set.

Seriously, it pisses me off when people play like how he did to me then. I'm not trying to be the guy who plays Sonic to be annoying, I want to play him because he's the only character who I feel comfortable with. Everybody else is too slow. Playing to win is like a 3rd or 4th after-thought; however, doing that is not cool for anybody.

 

[VKatana]

At a recent tournament I went to, I noticed some Sonic players were able to change the direction they were facing after an up b in order to make it more difficult to judge where they were going to land after down airing back to the stage. Does anyone know how to perform this technique? I think its supposed to be pulled off at the apex of the spring jump before performing a down air, but I'm not sure how to do it. Help!

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

you simply input the other direction immediately after you input up-b. Basically as your holding up right after you hit the special button hold your control stick the opposite direction you were initially facing if that sound a bit easier.

 

[Camalange]

^ A universal input since Smash's conception.

There's no way to Dair the opposite direction after Sonic has performed an Up-B facing one way, if that's what you were looking to find out.

 

[VKatana]

Will the Sonic character forums be getting a larger, more comprehensive match ups thread anytime soon? I noticed many other character forums have that.

 

[Camalange]

Will the Sonic character forums be getting a larger, more comprehensive match ups thread anytime soon? I noticed many other character forums have that.

Our current match-up thread will become that. Our old one was insufficient and the project was only recently rebooted. We ask that you give it time.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Maybe we should cover more characters in the same week? I also feel that the MU thread is kinda lacking, even though it is (slowly) developing.

 

[kj22]

still reveling in a post brawl world where this could even be a possible statement that exists

Sonic's worst match-up is against people who know the match-up.

Spinshot?

Sonic's worst match-up is against people who know the match-up.

^^^^This times 1000. Playing against people who actually know sonic's options and how to punish is like....damn my basic stuff isn't working anymore time to get even more creative. I love DDPing as sonic as well. Need to replace my roll habit with dash aways though.
Running through people is fun too. As well as slow walking and ftlit ;c

It's how I beat 6wx on wifi ;b, actually knew how to punish stuff (fighting zero's sonic a crappppton)

 

[kj22]

sonic vs ZSS is still infuriating.... especially given the fact that she gets guaranteed KO setups from bthrow into down b at like 30% and then dsmash short hop nair into down B at like 60%. That and while her grab isn't very safe running from spin dash and pivot grabbing tends to work well. Could just be that i'm getting a mental block vs ZSS but the MU feels like one that not in our favor.

Honestly that mu feels deeeead even to me. Played against Nicole (and Paw) a whole lot when she was down here, and it usually comes down to who made the last read lol. Sonic can't really fraud zss with spindash like he can with other characters, her mobility + downsmash, paralyzer, grab, bair and UP B (almost pee-d my pants when she running up'd me outta spindash ;^ lets her handle spindash easily. Hell her short hop was like designed not to get hit by spindash.

I use SH ASC a lot more in this matchup because it can punish paralyzer shot and since it's multihit won't lose to paralyzer (not sure if sideb loses) Edgeguarding comes down to reading whether she will down b or not and punishing it (hard to tbh, upsmash seems to beat it) Baiting zss to dash grab/grab also yielded high results because of her slow and punishable (not as much as brawl though) grab. Abuse that, abuse her bad grab!

Definitely had to work a lot harder then I'm used to, felt different, I know we're faster than her but she can definitely keep up.

 

[VKatana]

What are some generally good options against an opponent who is constantly shielding your spindashes? I generally can't seem to get a grab on them, and while there are mix-ups to avoid getting punished, it seems difficult to rack up damage without spindash combos. It feels like I'm playing much worse recently due to this.

 

[Vash_Ericks]

One thing that I'm having trouble with matchup-wise at tournaments is villager. I have no idea how to beat them when they play the edge by hopping on and off firing their projectiles at me. When I actually get to them, I don't really know how to punish them as their balloons keep me from spiking/springing them when they go off the edge and their ledge-snap frames keeps me from really damaging them. I try to take them to Omega-Battlefield, Lylat cruise, or Castle SIege as the first 2 have weird ledge-snaps and the third is good at throwing off projectiles in all forms. The problem is that it still feels like an uphill battle in terms of their kiting ability. How do you guys deal with Villagers zoning and escapes?

 

[ROOOOY!]

Villager is difficult off stage. The only thing I try and do is force them to recover high. If theyre above the stage I run off the stage hopefully making them pull the balloons out cos falling would send them to me. If they do you've not committed so you can get back to the stage easy and they can't land or get to the ledge safely. You've got to kind of feign aggression.

I can't do peach. Please help.

 

[VKatana]

I generally just get camped by Peaches who will constantly hang in the air with the float, and its difficult to get them during that, even with a homing attack. Any character or even player who plays campy and defensive is an uphill battle for Sonic, or at least thats my experience so far. As far as Villager goes, just respect them on the ledge and try to punish things in the neutral, that's all I can really tell you for whatever its worth.

However, the character that truly destroys me is Luigi. I've played against several Luigi mains who will constantly throw out fireballs and the first hit of jab in order to try and get a grab, which is where all their damage and kills derives from. The Luigis I've played against mainly do this and a few of them are so incredibly patient, they'll just walk back and forth slowly until they're in the perfect spot for a grab. It may just be the players and not the character, but I've been destroyed every time by this patient and campy playstyle. Any tips for racking up damage and getting kills against these sorts of players/characters?

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

we actually want peach in the air as we can easily do a run in usmash for kills as our upsmash beats our her dair which in most cases is what she is going to be using if she's above you unless she does a falling nair or fair which you can just shield and punish with a grab. We can also just short hop fair her when she is floating.

 

[Cypher99]

My questions
1 is sonic good for tornaments?
2 how should I be playing when I use sonic?
3 what are his best combos?
4 how do you gimp opponents?
5 when should I use down b and side be respectively ?
6 is side b better then down b?
7 what are Sonic's best kill options?

 

[BlackPhantom]

My questions
1 is sonic good for tornaments?
2 how should I be playing when I use sonic?
3 what are his best combos?
4 how do you gimp opponents?
5 when should I use down b and side be respectively ?
6 is side b better then down b?
7 what are Sonic's best kill options?

1. Yes, he is very viable, top 5 actually.
2.Aggro or Passive-Aggro (Your choice), but your main objective should be applying pressure and punishing mistakes and habits.
3.70% comes from side and down b man.
4.We like to use bair if they like to recover high or spring if they like to recover low.
5.Punishing, pressure,approaching. It all comes down to how you like to play him.
6. Side b has more priority and invincibility frames on some part of the hop and does more damage, however, down b is faster and deals more hits. Also, down b has a better trajectory in the air compared to side b.
7.U-smash, F-smash, U-air, Bair, Back Throw, and F-throw

 

[Camalange]

My questions
1 is sonic good for tornaments?
2 how should I be playing when I use sonic?
3 what are his best combos?
4 how do you gimp opponents?
5 when should I use down b and side be respectively ?
6 is side b better then down b?
7 what are Sonic's best kill options?

1 sure
2 fast
3 1 2 buckle my shoe
4 hit
5 respectably take them to dinner first
6 i dont choose sides
7 chili dogs

 

[VKatana]

My questions
1 is sonic good for tornaments?
2 how should I be playing when I use sonic?
3 what are his best combos?
4 how do you gimp opponents?
5 when should I use down b and side be respectively ?
6 is side b better then down b?
7 what are Sonic's best kill options?

1. Sonic is probably one of the most tournament viable characters if you know the match ups.
2. Sonic can play aggressively or defensively, depending on your situation.
3. You can chain any aerial out of a spindash. At lower percents, up throw to up air, and at mid percents, up throw to spring to forward air.
4. Punish high with aerials, punish low with springs.
Not 100% sure about 5 and 6.
7. Back throw at the edge, forward smash, up smash, up airs off the top, back airs (varying areas of the stage depending on percent and opponent's weight class).

 

[ROOOOY!]

Running Usmash is terrible against a floating Peach I find, get punished for it every time. But yeah.

Also I did double spring yesterday janking around in master orders yesterday so I couldn't save it. No one around me I promise you. Think I did it from the ground on Boxing Ring, then again during descent. So I'm confused. Its not useful anyway, but its bugging me cos I don't like not knowing things. Pretty sure there's something missing outside of footstool to cause it, unless the platform thing at the top footstooled me cos there was no one up there.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Auroura]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EEdZ1961Bg&feature=youtu.be So I am to understand that I got footstoled and that's why I got another spring. Since my thread got closed I'll just ask here. Where did I get footstooled at? Because I'm watching this over and over, and I don't see a footstool. 1:47-1:51. Because this is bugging me. You guys are seeing something I don't. ):

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Why do I sometimes lose my double jump when I transition my grounded SDR into an ASDR by pressing A, and then do an aerial? When I do no action out of the ASDR and allow it to cancel itself, I always lose my double jump, which I understand. However, when I do an aerial to exit the ASDR I SOMETIMES lose my double jump but other times I don't. What gives?

Okay, from where are you starting your ASDR? ASDR only occurs when you roll off a platform. Using an aerial SD will lead into a SDH and not an ASDR.

Presuming you're actually doing an ASDR, did you check if you were, by any chance, in BSBS? If you are in BSBS, you won't be able to double jump out of a ASDR.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EEdZ1961Bg&feature=youtu.be So I am to understand that I got footstoled and that's why I got another spring. Since my thread got closed I'll just ask here. Where did I get footstooled at? Because I'm watching this over and over, and I don't see a footstool. 1:47-1:51. Because this is bugging me. You guys are seeing something I don't. ):

Definitely a footstool. Right at the beginning of the first Spring.