Sonic fanbase

[The Halloween Captain]

I am having a very hard time understanding what makes up Sonic's fanbase. If the sonic games in recent memory are admittedly kinda bad, why are there still so many fans? and why doesn't anyone demand that all the technical problems with Sonic games be fixed, instead blaming Sonic's failures on gimmicks rather than the technical issues such as camera and controls (and storyline) that bring the games down?

 

[Tenki]

Wrong boardsish? -->>> lighthouse

Sonic's fanbase is generally made up of people who grew up with the Genesis games or were caught up in the wave of 90s cartoons that featured Sonic. It was a 90s Sonic culture.

Also, in Sonic Unleashed (the last recent game I've followed), I think alot of people actually liked the gameplay (day time), and I don't recally any camera/control problems (day time). I think they sort of made an effort to get rid of falling through stages and camera issues. Alot of people, especially on these boards were like, "wwwoooooow the daytime stages were amazing." (and if you've ever seen the 360/ps3 versions of the day stages, I honestly think they're better.) People who had the Wii/PS2 versions loved the day stages. But alot of the day stages were taken out, and almost all of them were nerfed/shortened (well, created shorter - they were developed by different teams), and more gameplay was focused on the werehog 'gimmick'. So people say that the failure (if they see it as such) of Sonic Unleashed was all on the werehog gimmick.

I think everyone can care less about the storyline. I mean really, the Genesis games didn't really have much of one. It was like...
"aaa he's trying to take over the world and turn animals into robots" --> "lolsaved".

 

[Kinzer]

You're thinking of Sonic's console games post Sonic Heroes, his games were actually good.

We can't make them fix it, but we can however not buy any of their bad games.

Hey good to see you again Captain.

This could've gone in our Q&A thread though, but I understand you must still think that we are still spammy.

...Well actually we are, moderation just got tougher.

 

[Camalange]

Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles is the greatest game ever.

 

[Sagen du Smash]

I loved Unleashed daytime stages a lot, more than SA1. My favorite Sonic games personally are Sonic 3 and Knuckles, SA2 and Sonic Advance 2. Oh and SSBB because Sonic is awesome to play as and STEAK and all that...

Shadow The Hedgehog was TERRIBLE. and Sonic 06 was just as bad if not worse. But besides Werehog gimmick, Unleashed is a lot of fun. Will I get Sonic and the Black Knight? Maybe. Didn't get Secret Rings and I heard people liked it. And as long as Sonic RUNS FAST with the sword, I don't care that he has one. Any gimmick that slows Sonic down=bad...

^_^

 

[Unknownlight]

The reason why Sonic fans (including myself) are still fans is because the series isn't nearly as bad as the media and internet proclaim it is. The only bad main series games were Shadow and Sonic Next. Heroes was so-so, still fun but not as good as the Adventure series. Unleashed was awesome --in my opinion. I know many people don't like the werehog, but personally, I don't think those people even give the werehog a chance. His levels are actually quite fun once you level him up and unlock some combos.

Let me put it this way: Shadow was released in 2005, and it was a bad game, but Sonic Rush was released at around the same time, which was a a very good game. In 2006, Sonic Next was released, which was a terrible game; but soon after Secret Rings was released which (in my opinion, some didn't like the controls) was a very good game. That's two years where bad games were released, but immediately followed by good games. Then Unleashed is released and breaks the track record.

My question is: why would I give up on the series?

 

[The Halloween Captain]

The reason why Sonic fans (including myself) are still fans is because the series isn't nearly as bad as the media and internet proclaim it is. The only bad main series games were Shadow and Sonic Next. Heroes was so-so, still fun but not as good as the Adventure series. Unleashed was awesome --in my opinion. I know many people don't like the werehog, but personally, I don't think those people even give the werehog a chance. His levels are actually quite fun once you level him up and unlock some combos.

Let me put it this way: Shadow was released in 2005, and it was a bad game, but Sonic Rush was released at around the same time, which was a a very good game. In 2006, Sonic Next was released, which was a terrible game; but soon after Secret Rings was released which (in my opinion, some didn't like the controls) was a very good game. That's two years where bad games were released, but immediately followed by good games. Then Unleashed is released and breaks the track record.

My question is: why would I give up on the series?

Different definition of good?

I never understood the appeal of the gameplay, even in the original Sonic (sorry, the first three just weren't my thing). The only game in the series I actually enjoyed gameplay-wise is Shadow, because there are no other fast pace shooters. In fact, I've always been a little bitter about all the negative criticism surrounding Shadow, because there is almost no chance of getting another entry into the 3rd person high-speed shooter genre from any company on any system without a sequel, and as bad as the game was, I love the genre.

My biggest criticism is that the game is mediocre again and again, or when it's good, it's not a true 3-D console sonic. Most iconic figures slowly fade away as they stop starring in AAA games. But the best "true" (semi-normal Sonic platformer mechanics) 3D Sonic game was Sonic adventure 2 battle, which, quite frankly, is not all that great by todays standards of how controls and cameras should function.

I simply cannot figure out what seperates Sonic from all the other characters with lost luster, such as Star Fox, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro (the dragon has as much longevity as Sonic, but who knows where it comes from), and DK. Could someone please explain what seperates Sonic from these icons? Is it that no other character has comparable gameplay?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I simply cannot figure out what seperates Sonic from all the other characters with lost luster, such as Star Fox, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro (the dragon has as much longevity as Sonic, but who knows where it comes from), and DK. Could someone please explain what seperates Sonic from these icons? Is it that no other character has comparable gameplay?

DK's an icon, but his new games are even worse than Sonic's. Atleast the idea of Sonic is kept in someway, but not with Donkey Kong.

Starfox was a space shooter that got some good third-person shooting in some of the games. Many like the first part, and the other may be GTA players. Not all of 'em, and maybe none of 'em, but TPSs are fun when done right(SF64, Assault, and Shadow).

I can't say much for Crash or Spyro though, but I don't think a lot of Spyro's newer games are that popular.

Mario is a LOT more gimmicky than Sonic though, despite the major Mario games almost always being awesome.(Super Mario Sunshine was debatable, but who likes Mario water stages). Either way, a lot of those gimmicks can ruin a game(well, Sonic-wise...for the most part.

 

[GreenKirby]

Because the fan base is so divided up it's not even funny.

First, we have elitists who think that Sonic should just go back to 2D only to be good. Even though ST is full of ****, the fans refusing to let the series evolve by forcing it to remain in 2D is foolish. Then there's the fact that not all 2D games are good. (Sonic Genesis Advance)

Then we have the 12- years old whose first game was Sonic Adventure 2. They play it, see Shadow, and fallen in love with him. Thanks to that, instead of Shadow staying dead like he was originally suppose to, he's now glory hogging the series. And thanks to those idiot 12 year olds who only like gore and guns, Shadow the Hedgehog the game was born.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

DK's an icon, but his new games are even worse than Sonic's. Atleast the idea of Sonic is kept in someway, but not with Donkey Kong.

Starfox was a space shooter that got some good third-person shooting in some of the games. Many like the first part, and the other may be GTA players. Not all of 'em, and maybe none of 'em, but TPSs are fun when done right(SF64, Assault, and Shadow).

I can't say much for Crash or Spyro though, but I don't think a lot of Spyro's newer games are that popular.

Mario is a LOT more gimmicky than Sonic though, despite the major Mario games almost always being awesome.(Super Mario Sunshine was debatable, but who likes Mario water stages). Either way, a lot of those gimmicks can ruin a game(well, Sonic-wise...for the most part.

I actually never accused Sonic of being gimmicky.

I accuse sonic of maintaining his staying power by being the only character in his genre. There's a huge difference. In fact, Sonic's gimmicks would be his selling point if Sega would but enough time into them to place them on the level of Mario.

But first, sonic team must absolutely fix their camera and controls problems before any gimmick is a good idea. Seriously, Shadow should have been the best fanfare ever, but eroded into a critique of what Sonic team should avoid, in spite of the majority of Shadow's problems being basics such as the camera and controls, and not the implementation of a "gimmick", which in that case was actually a pretty solid exaple of how to change gameplay without detracting from a franchise's unique aspects (speed and platforming).

I will say that werehog sounds like a gimmick. The same is true of the chaos emerald hunts and mech courses of Sonic Adventure 2. Not all gimmicks are bad, but the core gameplay must be perfected, otherwise not matter how they are implemented, the game will still be mediocre at best.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I was a fan of Sonic as a child and I never had a SEGA system until the Dreamcast came out.

Of course, back than Sonic had a bunch of tv shows and comics.

He does now too, but it's not the same.

I had the archie comics when I was young. I guess I just liked the colorful characters.

His games dwindling in quality shouldn't really effect his fanbase when I was a fan and never had a SEGA system when I was young.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Because the fan base is so divided up it's not even funny.

First, we have elitists who think that Sonic should just go back to 2D only to be good. Even though ST is full of ****, the fans refusing to let the series evolve by forcing it to remain in 2D is foolish. Then there's the fact that not all 2D games are good. (Sonic Genesis Advance)

Then we have the 12- years old whose first game was Sonic Adventure 2. They play it, see Shadow, and fallen in love with him. Thanks to that, instead of Shadow staying dead like he was originally suppose to, he's now glory hogging the series. And thanks to those idiot 12 year olds who only like gore and guns, Shadow the Hedgehog the game was born.

Why does everybody blame the guns in Shadow?

I doubt anyone whose played the game would say the guns were the problem. They are actually the best part.

IMO, most people want a game that controls well with a good camera that allows you to be a super-powered behemoth that can blow stuff up by looking at it, in which you are allowed to simply maul legions of enemies right up until the boss battle in which another super-powered behemoth duels you in an epic exciting challenge. Generally speaking, the enemies are there for your entertainment, and the puzzles and bosses provide all the challenge in the ideal game.

Sonic was a super-fast sissy who couldn't take a hit. Shadow couldn't take a hit either, but at least he had super-strength with his speed (in the form of guns) to maul legiones of enemies with. I would think most gamers would support the enhancement of that, so far as to demand a higher quality sequel, rather than demand developers never again implement the best elements of such a game.

 

[Lord Viper]

I was a fan of Sonic as a child and I never had a SEGA system until the Dreamcast came out.

☆ What?! No love for Chaos and 3D action. D=

My first Sonic game is Sonic Two for Genesis and so on. Well I'll say that Sonic games and Puyo Puyo game's were the only game's I play for Sega becides a little of Night's. I would say that Sonic game's took the wrong turn when required missions came out from a good amount of Sonic newer games. Well to be honest, I don't know why some people dislike Sonic Adventure, I guess they have reasons. Oh who am I kidding, BRING BACK THE CHAOS!!! ☆

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Why does everybody blame the guns in Shadow?

I doubt anyone whose played the game would say the guns were the problem. They are actually the best part.

IMO, most people want a game that controls well with a good camera that allows you to be a super-powered behemoth that can blow stuff up by looking at it, in which you are allowed to simply maul legions of enemies right up until the boss battle in which another super-powered behemoth duels you in an epic exciting challenge. Generally speaking, the enemies are there for your entertainment, and the puzzles and bosses provide all the challenge in the ideal game.

Sonic was a super-fast sissy who couldn't take a hit. Shadow couldn't take a hit either, but at least he had super-strength with his speed (in the form of guns) to maul legiones of enemies with. I would think any real gamer would support the enhancement of that, so far as to demand a higher quality sequel, rather than demand developers never again implement the best elements of such a game.

Its because people who play Sonic wants one thing,Speed.Its not a true Sonic game if you can't run through the whole level.(this is not my perspective.)
Guns were a minor distraction that were not needed

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Its because people who play Sonic wants one thing,Speed.Its not a true Sonic game if you can't run through the whole level.(this is not my perspective.)
Guns were a minor distraction that were not needed

And the chaos emerald hunts of Sonic Adventure 2 weren't?

 

[GreenKirby]

Why does everybody blame the guns in Shadow?

The guns themselves weren't the problem. It's the reason. Sega thought that putting guns in a game automatically means it'll good and popular.

Throw in the fact that Shadow is the ULTIMATE LIFEFORM! Shadow using a gun is like putting a cherry bomb on a ****ing nuke!

Another fact was that the guns were suppose to be optional. But not using guns will make it impossible to get an A-rank.

And the guns aren't the best part of the game. The hero/dark aspect and branching storylines are.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

The guns themselves weren't the problem. It's the reason. Sega thought that putting guns in a game automatically means it'll good and popular.

Throw in the fact that Shadow is the ULTIMATE LIFEFORM! Shadow using a gun is like putting a cherry bomb on a ****ing nuke!

Another fact was that the guns were suppose to be optional. But not using guns will make it impossible to get an A-rank.

And the guns aren't the best part of the game. The hero/dark aspect and branching storylines are.

No, the hero/dark aspect and branching storyline of the game are not the best parts of the game. In order to complete the game and battle the final boss, one must attempt all ten endings. The requirement to follow the first stage ten times and any second and third stage 3-4 times each was actually my biggest complaint about the game. The idea was good, but poorly implemented.

Not only that, but the guns were fun. Ignore the fact that shadow is the ultimate life form for a moment. Sonic's normal gameplay, in my opinion, is dangerous, with auto-aim attacks that launch you off cliffs or into bullets. Shadow's attack set was simply superior to sonic's, and the result was, IMO, enemy fights that were a part of the gameplay, rather than in the way. Anyone who even attempts Shadow the Hedgehog A ranks without guns is missing the point of having guns in the first place - to make the game more fun and enjoyable for fans.

Finally, the reason Shadow has guns is because he is the ultimate life form. The only thing that seperates Shadow from Sonic is his resourcefulness; Sonic does not use guns because they are not part of his style, but Shadow does because he will do anything to succeed, whereas Sonic has his personality which prevents him from reaching the same extemes as Shadow. Shadow is actually weaker than Sonic, as he relies on hoverboots to keep up, but his resourcefulness puts him on top.

Yes, vehicles were a bad idea. Yes, Sega did it for all the wrong reasons. However, ignore that for a second; Shadow the Hedgehog has a totally unique gameplay to it that has never been implementated elsewhere, and even when done poorly, Shadow the Hedgehog was a fun game. I don't care if the next game is called "sackboy meets the easter bunny," if they copy the gameplay formula of highspeed with high-power projectiles, and do it well, it will make an amazing game.

 

[Jimnymebob]

People nowadays think that Sonic games should be about blazing through the levels at incredible speeds.

Unless I was playing Bubsy, the original Sonic games were focused on platforming, Chemical Plant Zone being a great example of a stage that required good jumps. Sure, you could get through the earlier levels fast, but that was because each level had lots of different routes to the the end. I also miss the traditional level formula of Act 1, 2, then 3 and boss.

I am a fan of the 3D games, but apart from the character you play as, they bare no resemblance to Sonic whatsoever. I don't care for the story, and I never really had a problem with the controls and camera, except on a few certain occasions.
However, I don't like the fact that you only spend about 50% or less of the game playing as Sonic and running through levels, except for Sonic and the Secret Rings, but that only picked up at the later half of the game. Other characters are OK, as I enjoyed Tails' stages on SA, as they were similar to the stages Sonic plays, and I even liked certain missions of Amy. However, the shooting, collecting, fishing, driving and beat em up levels are unnecessary, and distract from the Sonic experience.

I don't think Sonic needs to go back to his 2D roots, as I found Sonic Advance 2, and Sonic Rush to be worse than the 3D games, but that may be my dislike of grind rails XD.
Sonic just needs to turn to a Sonic, and if that means trying to make a 3D game with the level format of the originals; without adventure stages and other character specific stages. Other playable characters would be cool, especially if they could go through different routes in the level.

 

[Minato]

Like I said in the Sonic Unleashed thread, Sonic has a tough time succeeding due to the split fanbase.

 

[Firus]

No, the hero/dark aspect and branching storyline of the game are not the best parts of the game. In order to complete the game and battle the final boss, one must attempt all ten endings. The requirement to follow the first stage ten times and any second and third stage 3-4 times each was actually my biggest complaint about the game. The idea was good, but poorly implemented.

I agree. I found the feature rather tedious and obnoxious, especially since I'm still confused about what exactly happened to Shadow. I went the straight path the first time and was all "ZOMG SHADOW'S A ROBOT!", and then I go through another and it says something completely different. What's the point of that?

Then at the end Shadow's just like "Screw it, I don't want to know my past". SO WHY DID YOU MAKE ME PLAY THROUGH THE GOD**** GAME?!

Not only that, but the guns were fun. Ignore the fact that shadow is the ultimate life form for a moment. Sonic's normal gameplay, in my opinion, is dangerous, with auto-aim attacks that launch you off cliffs or into bullets. Shadow's attack set was simply superior to sonic's, and the result was, IMO, enemy fights that were a part of the gameplay, rather than in the way. Anyone who even attempts Shadow the Hedgehog A ranks without guns is missing the point of having guns in the first place - to make the game more fun and enjoyable for fans.

Your complaints about enemy fights not being a part of gameplay and auto-aim attacks which kill are easily fixed by the Genesis Sonic games. I know you're not a fan of them, but it's the 3D games, not Sonic in general, that do that.

The guns were probably to make the game more fun and enjoyable, or maybe just to make Shadow look bad*** as they clearly wanted him to be. However, I didn't find them fun. I'm pretty sure others didn't either, which is partially why it's disliked so widely.

Finally, the reason Shadow has guns is because he is the ultimate life form. The only thing that seperates Shadow from Sonic is his resourcefulness; Sonic does not use guns because they are not part of his style, but Shadow does because he will do anything to succeed, whereas Sonic has his personality which prevents him from reaching the same extemes as Shadow. Shadow is actually weaker than Sonic, as he relies on hoverboots to keep up, but his resourcefulness puts him on top.

So wait...Shadow's the ultimate life form, but he's weaker than Sonic?

Sonic being the main character, obviously that SHOULD be true, but it doesn't make sense. Wouldn't the ultimate life form have something more going for him than some magical powers?

Yes, vehicles were a bad idea. Yes, Sega did it for all the wrong reasons. However, ignore that for a second; Shadow the Hedgehog has a totally unique gameplay to it that has never been implementated elsewhere, and even when done poorly, Shadow the Hedgehog was a fun game. I don't care if the next game is called "sackboy meets the easter bunny," if they copy the gameplay formula of highspeed with high-power projectiles, and do it well, it will make an amazing game.

It was kind of unique, but I didn't find it very fun. To each his own, I suppose.

And Minato, I think the bigger problem is that Sega doesn't have a clue what the hell their fans actually want in the first place. Either that or they just don't care.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

So wait...Shadow's the ultimate life form, but he's weaker than Sonic?

Sonic being the main character, obviously that SHOULD be true, but it doesn't make sense. Wouldn't the ultimate life form have something more going for him than some magical powers?



It was kind of unique, but I didn't find it very fun. To each his own, I suppose.

And Minato, I think the bigger problem is that Sega doesn't have a clue what the hell their fans actually want in the first place. Either that or they just don't care.

Well, actually my problem is I don't like the Sonic format in 2D or 3D.

Personally, I think that the series should just branch into two. Shadow for the people who like 3D, Sonic for the people who like 2D.

And while Shadow is the Ultimate life form in name, his physical characteristics are demonstratedly lesser than Sonics (although that does depend a little on the game). Shadow relies on hoverboots for speed, and Sonic used a fake chaos emerald to warp time in Adventure 2 Battle, something Shadow did not know was possible.

However, Shadow is clearly more knowledgable about the nature of warfare than Sonic. It's like comparing a veteran of fifty to a new army recruit. Sure, the younger soildier will have better raw physical abilities, but the veteran is more useful because of his extensive battlefield knowledge which has saved him time and again.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

No, the hero/dark aspect and branching storyline of the game are not the best parts of the game. In order to complete the game and battle the final boss, one must attempt all ten endings. The requirement to follow the first stage ten times and any second and third stage 3-4 times each was actually my biggest complaint about the game. The idea was good, but poorly implemented.

Not only that, but the guns were fun. Ignore the fact that shadow is the ultimate life form for a moment. Sonic's normal gameplay, in my opinion, is dangerous, with auto-aim attacks that launch you off cliffs or into bullets. Shadow's attack set was simply superior to sonic's, and the result was, IMO, enemy fights that were a part of the gameplay, rather than in the way. Anyone who even attempts Shadow the Hedgehog A ranks without guns is missing the point of having guns in the first place - to make the game more fun and enjoyable for fans.

Finally, the reason Shadow has guns is because he is the ultimate life form. The only thing that seperates Shadow from Sonic is his resourcefulness; Sonic does not use guns because they are not part of his style, but Shadow does because he will do anything to succeed, whereas Sonic has his personality which prevents him from reaching the same extemes as Shadow. Shadow is actually weaker than Sonic, as he relies on hoverboots to keep up, but his resourcefulness puts him on top.

Yes, vehicles were a bad idea. Yes, Sega did it for all the wrong reasons. However, ignore that for a second; Shadow the Hedgehog has a totally unique gameplay to it that has never been implementated elsewhere, and even when done poorly, Shadow the Hedgehog was a fun game. I don't care if the next game is called "sackboy meets the easter bunny," if they copy the gameplay formula of highspeed with high-power projectiles, and do it well, it will make an amazing game.

The targeting system was so poorly implemented though. You couldn't even aim manually. Also, the melee weapons/attacks were kind of slow and useless, and would end up getting you hit in between swings more often than not. The concept has potential but was just poorly executed. Compare the gameplay of a game like Devil May Cry 3 to Shadow and you can clearly see how rushed it was. They just need to stop and take their time to flesh out the gameplay instead cranking out halfassed sequels like an assembly line.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

The targeting system was so poorly implemented though. You couldn't even aim manually. Also, the melee weapons/attacks were kind of slow and useless, and would end up getting you hit in between swings more often than not. The concept has potential but was just poorly executed. Compare the gameplay of a game like Devil May Cry 3 to Shadow and you can clearly see how rushed it was. They just need to stop and take their time to flesh out the gameplay instead cranking out halfassed sequels like an assembly line.

I agree completely.