Something I think Ness Diehards need to consider (long read)

[LavisFiend]

There is really heavy evidence of Ness' removal, and the Ness fans refuse to let go. I think this is silly, and I will explain why.

Let me be the first to state that I have never HATED Ness, as I was a fan of Earthbound from the very beginning. I don't want people to assume I have it out for Ness, but I do want people to understand the logic behind why Ness is as disposable as an individual character.

First and foremost, I want to bring up the SSE. We all know that the SSE will be a completely unique storyline involving the franchises of the Nintendo cast, battling and uniting against one another for different goals only known to them.

Earthbound's story did little to nothing to develop the character Ness was. The rest of the cast had more depth to them then Ness had, as Ness was the cliche chosen one with a silent demeanor. there was a story, but it was as linear as you could get. The crucial aspect of a storyline is character development, as it helps the player relate and understand the troubles and emotions a character can go through. Ness had pathetically poor character development, if any.

I can basically sum up the story of Earthbound in a few words: Chosen one goes off to battle evil entity to save the universe. It's as basic as you can get, and the fact that there is little to no development of the main hero only helps to further the player away from the story as a whole. The key thing that dragged people into the story was the random and quirky happenings of the Earthbound world. Overall though, the main oomph of the story loses ground when the protagonist is as deep as a puddle.

What does this have to do with anything? Well, for starters, Lucas HAS depth AND a strong sturdy storyline complete with twists and turns set in a very mature overtone. This factor alone gives Lucas far more priority seeing as how SSE will borrow elements from the franchise's respective games to mishmash them into the overall scheme, (from the looks of it so far.) Even though the SSE is not solely dependent on any individual franchise, as it only borrows a small bit from each, it does carry over the personality traits of the characters as well at what makes them the character that they are. My point is this: Which character do you think would have more of an impact SSE wise? The blank cookie-cutter guy, or the guy with a storyline and a background, as WELL as a personality?

The answer is quite obvious now isn't it?

Now I am in no way saying Earthbound is not important. It is hands down THE most important game in terms of social awareness. Without Earthbound, the America's would not have known about the Mother franchise as a whole. Without Ness, the world would be blind to Mother, only those who did enough lurking would be able to uncover the franchise as it is strongly Japanese based.

With Ness came Mother, as Earthbound served as a messenger for the rest of the world. This alone makes him important in his own right...

However, Ness' role is done, It was done way back when Earthbound hit game store shelves as a SNES title. He planted the seeds so to speak. Although Ness' role is complete though, people are hung up on him. After all, he IS the face of Mother in the America's, so it is perfectly understandable. That is why it is so hard to imagine Ness not in Brawl, seeing as how he played such a crucial part of making the rest of the world see Mother. I can understand that, but to continue to believe that he is THE single most important character is silly, as Lucas has proven that HE is the true face of Mother, complete with being a true character and having a true story to back him up.

It is with all this knowledge that I became fine with the idea of Ness not being his own individual character. He has done it twice already, and it is about time he stepped aside and let Lucas take his spot as the face of Mother. It is how it was supposed to turn out from the very beginning of Smash, but there was simply problem after problem that hindered Lucas' availability to the Smash scene. Ness did a great job warming the seat so to speak, but as a stand alone character compared to Lucas, Ness is nothing more than a filler...

Which brings me to my next point. Earthbound deserves it's recognition in Brawl, but it does not deserve to be repped for a third time in Brawl with a playable character. We got our Mother rep, Lucas, and he will do a fine job carrying the flag so to speak. However, how can Earthbound still shine in the world of Brawl without cluttering the roster with a depthless character? A level, Earthbound specific item, maybe even an Earthbound specific AT.... something...but the best thing I can come up with is an alt costume which will perfectly rep Earthbound as it's own game, but at the same time not clutter the Mother name.

Ness is essentially a depthless avatar in the grand scheme of Earthbound's story... an avatar of which fits perfectly to scale with Lucas' Brawl model. A simple application of this outfit to Lucas and voila, we have two characters for the price of one. Think Daisy/Peach, Falcon/Blood Falcon. Sure they were color swaps, and not exactly palette swaps, but Lucas would be special in this case.

After all, Lucas has quite a few of Ness' moves, and Ness was an important face in Mother history. I think they could go the extra mile and incorporate this actual costume change for the sake of coherence and tidiness. The best part with this idea though, is that Ness as a standalone character does not lose relevance, because, as I have said before, Ness has little to no personality whatsoever, he technically, IS a blank avatar, unlike Lucas....

So there you have it. I hope this educates you all as to why Sakurai and Sora Ltd. can totally get away with removing Ness from Brawl as a playable character. There is just simply no reason to have him as a stand alone character no more. His role had been complete a long time ago, and he was basically still in because Lucas was fashionably late when arriving to Brawl. Now that Lucas is here, it is only fair for Ness to step aside and let a TRUE character reign precedence as the face of mother.

 

[Bli33ard]

Wow. What a post.

It DOES make sense now, and this should be the first post you should read after discovering that your main's practically been disconfirmed.

 

[Kirby_M@ster]

Two things I see wrong with that:
1) It's a matter of opinion, not fact... And not everybody will agree.
2) Ness isn't the only 'silent avatar' in the game, he shouldn't be singled out for this.

Basically, what you're saying is that you think of Ness as an empty character, and that is why he should be removed?
Removed from the same series that changed Falcon from a faceless racer into an actual character... The one oppartunity for such characters to actually become developed. I don't really mind that Ness is 'replaced' as such, nothing I can do and I was never really attached to him, I just don't exactly agree with your reasoning.

Oh, and three:
"...No reason to have him as a stand alone character no more."
:freak:

 

[heypancho]

Well, that was long. I wasn't totally crushed at Ness getting ditched, but I mean, don't try and take my heart and then give it back :O! But, I also just realized that in Japan Mother 3 is a big deal, so I expect fans over there to be jeering at the idea of Lucas. A lot of them would have been upset if Lucas wasn't in. It wouldn't make sense in the way that "oh no, the original 12!" seems to be over on our end.

Aside from all of that though, you can't help but have that lingering feeling of Ness= new moves= not a clone= spot. I mean, you can say he's gone, but I can not feel that he could be lurking. Like a lot of you are on these boards >:|


aaand I'd rather not see Ness as an alt costume. or a AT/trophy/pokeball. wouldn't mind some cameo though in adventure mode ~_~. But really.. he should be a character >:O!!!!!!! and i like Kirby_M@ster now

 

[Mama]

Two things I see wrong with that:
1) It's a matter of opinion, not fact... And not everybody will agree.
2) Ness isn't the only 'silent avatar' in the game, he shouldn't be singled out for this.

Basically, what you're saying is that you think of Ness as an empty character, and that is why he should be removed?
Removed from the same series that changed Falcon from a faceless racer into an actual character... The one oppartunity for such characters to actually become developed. I don't really mind that Ness is 'replaced' as such, nothing I can do and I was never really attached to him, I just don't exactly agree with your reasoning.

Oh, and three:
"...No reason to have him as a stand alone character no more."
:freak:

Ness is sort of out dated. He is to Lucas as OoT Link is to TP Link. I don't care for Earthbound or Mother. I would play them but I'm not one to get into Japanese exclusive franchises that only tap American shores. I only care about Ness since he's been around since the beginning. I never used him though lol but I think its just sad to see him go. I wish everyone could stay though but thats not the case. I guess you could say I only care that Ness is gone. If he had stayed I wouldn't give a darn.

Although I wouldn't say character depth is a very good reason to not have a character. (Ice Climbers and Mr. G&W are as depthless as you can go) But in relation to another character in the same franchise comparing depth would be reasonable.

 

[Kirby_M@ster]

Don't worry heypancho, I doubt you'll be seeing Ness in a pokeball.

I've also considered that Ness could simply be a completely different character, but from what the update has told us it just doesn't seem to make as much sense. Possible but nothing to lead us to that conclusion...

 

[LavisFiend]

Two things I see wrong with that:
1) It's a matter of opinion, not fact... And not everybody will agree.
2) Ness isn't the only 'silent avatar' in the game, he shouldn't be singled out for this.

Basically, what you're saying is that you think of Ness as an empty character, and that is why he should be removed?
Removed from the same series that changed Falcon from a faceless racer into an actual character... The one oppartunity for such characters to actually become developed. I don't really mind that Ness is 'replaced' as such, nothing I can do and I was never really attached to him, I just don't exactly agree with your reasoning.

Oh, and three:
"...No reason to have him as a stand alone character no more."
:freak:

1) Yes....just like every other post here. This did not need to be addressed....

2) Well, he is, because he is directly affected by Lucas' inclusion.

but you see, Ness not only had two chances to distinguish himself in the Smash series, his game already focused on him as an individual character. Captain Falcon got the way he was because of the creativity the team put into making him. They made him from virtually nothing, as character specific personality and mannerisms came with the building process. My point is that with all the time they had to flesh out what Ness was, they didn't. They just basically built upon what the game had already gave them through content and whatnot, but when it came to personality, he still retained the dry blankness from his game. There is nothing to Ness, making him dispensable as a playable character.

3) This whole post explained bit by bit why I made this statement. I don't like to toot my own horn, but I believe the information I provided is plenty evidence enough of my statement, regardless if you wish to believe it to be authentic or not.

 

[Reyairia]

Earthbound's story did little to nothing to develop the character Ness was. The rest of the cast had more depth to them then Ness had, as Ness was the cliche chosen one with a silent demeanor. there was a story, but it was as linear as you could get. The crucial aspect of a storyline is character development, as it helps the player relate and understand the troubles and emotions a character can go through. Ness had pathetically poor character development, if any.

... I think that counts for many Nintendo heroes, including Link and Mario.

 

[Kirby_M@ster]

1) Yes....just like every other post here. This did not need to be addressed....

2) Well, he is, because he is directly affected by Lucas' inclusion.

but you see, Ness not only had two chances to distinguish himself in the Smash series, his game already focused on him as an individual character. Captain Falcon got the way he was because of the creativity the team put into making him. They made him from virtually nothing, as character specific personality and mannerisms came with the building process. My point is that with all the time they had to flesh out what Ness was, they didn't. They just basically built upon what the game had already gave them through content and whatnot, but when it came to personality, he still retained the dry blankness from his game. There is nothing to Ness, making him dispensable as a playable character.

3) This whole post explained bit by bit why I made this statement. I don't like to toot my own horn, but I believe the information I provided is plenty evidence enough of my statement, regardless if you wish to believe it to be authentic or not.

I don't see how Lucas' inclusion makes Ness the only 'hollow avatar' character, though. How does that affect anyone else?

They didn't flesh out Ness in the last two games, simply because they didn't need to, as the previous games didn't actually have an involved story. Doesn't mean they can't do it now.

I'm kind of confused with what exactly you were trying to say after 3), there... I can't make the connection between that and my post... There's no evidence, only opinion, and therefore nothing that can be considered 'authentic' or otherwise.

 

[LavisFiend]

... I think that counts for many Nintendo heroes, including Link and Mario.

As silent protagonists, yea...

but from body language as well as how the rest of the cast perceived them, as well as their way of tackling situations help build them up as a silent character, but with a certain feel about them that differentiate them from the others.

Ness did not have this crucial element of expression that is now required to stand out in a world of mute heros.

 

[Enlong]

Another nail in Ness' coffin is the fact that Lucas' special moves are nigh identical to the ones Ness had: He's got PK Fire, a PK Freeze that is launched in the same manner as PK Flash was, the same PK Thunder Move, and Psi Magnet. I highly doubt that Ness can come back without being heavily changed in move-set.

And then there's all the characterization stuff, but...

 

[Reyairia]

As silent protagonists, yea...

but from body language as well as how the rest of the cast perceived them, as well as their way of tackling situations help build them up as a silent character, but with a certain feel about them that differentiate them from the others.

Ness did not have this crucial element of expression that is now required to stand out in a world of mute heros.

Really? Because I don't see them being portrayed as something other than "the really nice guy who always does what's right," with no real personality. Sure they influence other characters, but nothing further than the generic "I see the light!" which often seems really random.

In other words, I don't think a character's personality or lack of has any influence whatsoever whether he/she/it enters or not.

 

[Magically Enhanced Hobo]

As silent protagonists, yea...

but from body language as well as how the rest of the cast perceived them, as well as their way of tackling situations help build them up as a silent character, but with a certain feel about them that differentiate them from the others.

Ness did not have this crucial element of expression that is now required to stand out in a world of mute heros.

Not only that, Mario and Link are irreplaceable not only in their own franchises, but in Nintendo's universe in general, and like you said, they are distinct characters even without ever talking. According to Lavis, Ness is replaceable even within the Mother universe, and (as Sakurai oh so viciously showed us) in the Smash universe.

I don't think that most people are so much upset over Ness himself, as they are over the "desecration" of the original 12, as if this was some aspect of the series that was set in stone. Personally, seeing as how I, like probably almost everyone here, did not use Ness that much and did not play Earthbound, I wasn't affected at all by this. If anything, I'm glad to see Ness's character slot updated with someone fresh. Out with the old, in with the new, I say.

However, to those of you who ARE actual fans of Ness himself, my apologies if I came off as blunt. I know I'd feel pretty bad if Captain Falcon got taken out of the roster. This post was intended for those who only know Ness through Smash, like myself.

 

[LavisFiend]

I don't see how Lucas' inclusion makes Ness the only 'hollow avatar' character, though. How does that affect anyone else?

They didn't flesh out Ness in the last two games, simply because they didn't need to, as the previous games didn't actually have an involved story. Doesn't mean they can't do it now.

I'm kind of confused with what exactly you were trying to say after 3), there... I can't make the connection between that and my post... There's no evidence, only opinion, and therefore nothing that can be considered 'authentic' or otherwise.

This whole post was made to counter argument the logic that Ness HAS to be in as a playable character because he is far more important to the series that Lucas is, which is a fabrication. It's a battle between who is more worthy to be lead character and hold the flag for Mother, Lucas or Ness? Lucas has more to him than Ness does, it boils down to this simple statement. In terms of relevance to the overall scheme of things, Ness brought Mother awareness outside Japan, but in terms of being his own stand alone character, he has no real strong points to consider. Lucas however is not only reveled to be best of the Mother series, (as it had plenty of time to focus on what made the Mother games great and build upon that) it had a deep mature story that Earthbound lacked due to simplicity of a cliche approach.

That is not a strong enough point to argue Kirby_M@ster. The lack of story in the past two Smashes is not a valid excuse for Ness. After all, Captain Falcon was basically a blank racer until Sakurai got ahold of him and crafted him to what he is today. He had nothing, but was given everything needed to stand out as an original character. Ness did not have this same treatment to make himself different. They did not build from the base, they kept the base.

What I said about the story is true. I did not make it up. There is no character development outside of the minor bits with Paula, Pokey, and Jeff. Ness had hardly any, and the development he did have had little effect on the overall story. If you ask me, we should have had Paula over Ness, as she was more relevant to the overall story of Earthbound, AS WELL as have a personality that Ness had lacked. You can't even beat the last boss without her, that's how important she is.

The connection between your post and my statement about it obviously won't have no connection as I am doing battle with a summarized quote of my text as well as a googly-eyed emoticon. I was speaking in my defense because I did bring up logical points that helped prove my stance on the deal. It is not overall PROOF of everything, and I am not making the statement that it is, but the words I typed had direct effect on my overall finisher, which was the quote you quoted on #3.

 

[heypancho]

Well I just want to say I think it's dumb/heart-wrenching to see Lucas act as a Ness imposter. Floating around doing Ness' moves that were in Melee... I know he didn't really know those in EB, but he still did them in Melee. Lucas seems enough like Melee Ness to bring a lump to the throat. I see Ness as gone, and it's sort of like a laugh at us to switch it around like that. That's probably why most people are upset.

And maybe Ness was lifeless in EB, but in 64/Melee he established himself enough! ;_;.. Crashing in as an intro, "Okay" *bow*, the Melee intro vid of him warping, "WoAh", PK thunder "Blahealdkj"

And OoT Link --> TP Link isn't really the same as Ness to Lucas. Updated sure.. but... lol i'm not really that sad about this, I just want to talk @_@

 

[LavisFiend]

Really? Because I don't see them being portrayed as something other than "the really nice guy who always does what's right," with no real personality. Sure they influence other characters, but nothing further than the generic "I see the light!" which often seems really random.

This is a natural thing, as you'd actually have to analyze far more deeper than normal to figure out what makes these characters different. The key ingredient to unmasking these characters and setting them apart is the most simplistic way of viewing them, which is body motion, how they present themself, as well as their fighting style and how they go about their duties. Stuff like that. Their impact on other characters as well as the world around them is a very vital part of character development, as we learn more about how others see this hero. One may see a quiet guy prancing around in a green dress, while another sees a man of honor and a strict sense of getting the job done. It is how they are perceived from many different angles that help give the character the much needed development that helps set them apart from generic hero A and generic hero B.

 

[LavisFiend]

Well I just want to say I think it's dumb/heart-wrenching to see Lucas act as a Ness imposter. Floating around doing Ness' moves that were in Melee... I know he didn't really know those in EB, but he still did them in Melee. Lucas seems enough like Melee Ness to bring a lump to the throat. I see Ness as gone, and it's sort of like a laugh at us to switch it around like that. That's probably why most people are upset.

And maybe Ness was lifeless in EB, but in 64/Melee he established himself enough! ;_;.. Crashing in as an intro, "Okay" *bow*, the Melee intro vid of him warping, "WoAh", PK thunder "Blahealdkj"

And OoT Link --> TP Link isn't really the same as Ness to Lucas. Updated sure.. but... lol i'm not really that sad about this, I just want to talk @_@

The main point I am getting at is this:

Ness had kept the Mother franchise chair nice and warm. He was fit for the job as he was such an important part of the Mother franchise as a whole, (bringing the series to other places basically.) However, now that the true Mother rep has arrived via Lucas, what about Ness? They are not the same person, but Ness does not have anything to separate him from Lucas as his own individual character. This little tidbit helps factor in that he could be an alt costume and Ness, as a character, does not lose any ground because he did not have much going for him in the first place to separate him as a unique character minus a few little phrases that he had said. He is essentially an empty avatar from Earthbound, holding no real relevance to the overall story and not emitting any personality whatsoever from it. He is basically a shell of a character that could work just as efficiently as an alt costume for Lucas.

 

[Youkai Master]

Wow I admit, this caught me by surprise... I didn't expect it to be so well written and structured. Good job LavisFiend.

I agree with you on pretty much everything, even though I love Ness. But my problem is why did they have to make Lucas simply a prettier Ness clone? If he is so different and distinct in his abilities why does he have the same recycled moves? This doesn't make sense on Nintendo's part, it's contradictory actually... Unless, they are not removing Ness and are just using him as a ground base for Lucas, basically a Luigified clone so Mother 3 could get some easy representation...?

This is not desperate thinking or denial by the way, it's just my analysis on the things we've seen so far. I would be perfectly fine without Ness...

 

[volbound1700]

Ness is gone... sad to say. Lucas should have never replaced Ness, Lucas is not in the U.S. plus Ness is better then Lucas.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Although i agree that ness is gone, some of the reasoning here is just plain wrong and unrelated to anything.

Following the same thought process, Link never speaks and doesn't really develop as a character. He shouldn't be in Brawl.

But i repeat, i firmly accept that Lucas has indeed replaced Ness.

 

[i rise]

Ness is gone... sad to say. Lucas should have never replaced Ness, Lucas is not in the U.S. plus Ness is better then Lucas.

that doesn't really work seeing as the game isn't meant for just the U.S., but everyone. also if we didn't get japanese exclusive characters we would've never had marth or roy, who's popularity helped bring the awesome fire emblem series stateside. i can only hope lucas does this for mother 3.

 

[NES n00b]

I thought the point of Earthbound's plot was to make fun of the cliche silent, chosen hero saves world with quirky things and a non too fantasy environment for the setting.

Anyways, I think he was replaced simply because he is not the face as Mother as a whole. So, Sakurai did the logical thing and used the newest character of the series. In the end, Lucas in a sense is to Ness as Link TP is to OOT, but has more factors that make him look different. They look similar, have the same movesets pretty much (in smash), and they are both play the same role in their games. Only people who grew to like the character Ness in Smash or Earthbound/Mother 2 should be sad. However, since he is pretty similar to Ness in terms of movesets, I don't really know why smash people would really miss him.
I guess it is for whatever reason I miss him.

 

[Kittah4]

It's a shame if Ness has gone. He's an icon for us, the only Mother/Earthbound hero to make it to other shores, despite not a small amount of fan pleading. If his heritage alone isn't enough, then I don't see why the dang ice climbers had to come back, after all Pit represents Nintendo retro sensibilities just fine.

Lucas is just a kick in the face. A pallete swap of ness with weird hair, no cap or backpack, and Lucas doesn't have a SINGLE one of his special moves as his own (holding out for PK Starstorm as his final smash, perhaps). So what if he had a good story? Story is irrelevant when considering character placement. Story would have helped devleop his moveset, perhaps, except that he just rips from Ness/Kumatora.

Lucas discards any notions that Sakurai had about including Japan-only characters, especially if Ness is truly dead. It's just not fair to all of the fans Ness had. Who cares what sort of character Ness was, if people became attached to him? With a different A button moveset, there's plenty of tweakning Ness could have had to make him viable. Plenty of PSI that didn't get used in Earthbound (Lucas should probably have had PK ground instead of Magnet, to shake thinks up).

But no, all of the characters that appeared so far are in the "now", their most recent character iteration (Fox, Ike to some degree, Yoshi etc.), and if that means they're a completely different character, so be it.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Another nail in Ness' coffin is the fact that Lucas' special moves are nigh identical to the ones Ness had: He's got PK Fire, a PK Freeze that is launched in the same manner as PK Flash was, the same PK Thunder Move, and Psi Magnet. I highly doubt that Ness can come back without being heavily changed in move-set.

And then there's all the characterization stuff, but...

It would be extremely naive to think those are the only move from the Mother series.

 

[MaximoSmasher]

I agree with alot, but you can still hope Ness will be in it because its not written in stone yet. Being UPSET by it is another story.

 

[MaximoSmasher]

Oh, I think they are suckering you guys into an EPIC Ness comeback....Why? because ONE character from ONE franchise seems like such a waste in brawl.

PS. wait till you guys play Mother 3. PROMISE you'll like him, and chances are Lucas in Brawl will get a Mother 3 release here.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Oh, I think they are suckering you guys into an EPIC Ness comeback....Why? because ONE character from ONE franchise seems like such a waste in brawl.

PS. wait till you guys play Mother 3. PROMISE you'll like him, and chances are Lucas in Brawl will get a Mother 3 release here.

Cough

Claus

Cough

 

[VanillaMummy]

Oh, I think they are suckering you guys into an EPIC Ness comeback....Why? because ONE character from ONE franchise seems like such a waste in brawl.

PS. wait till you guys play Mother 3. PROMISE you'll like him, and chances are Lucas in Brawl will get a Mother 3 release here.

If that's your logic then I guess we can see Topi as a playable character so that Ice Climbers aren't the only rep from their franchise...

 

[vesperview]

I hate this "I don't hate Ness, but his supporters are idiots for supporting him threads" seriously if you don't care about the character why the hell do you need to create a thread like this?

 

[DekuBoy]

I must disagree. Ness is an original character but has'nt really been in enough games to solidify his personality.
But Mr. Game and Watch is probably returning... how will he work in the SSE?

 

[MookieRah]

I'd like to point out the distinct time period in which both games were created. Earthbound is a very old game, and back then they had different views on creating games and their stories. By todays standards Ness seems very stale, but at the time it was completely the norm for a hero to act that way. If Mother 3 had the same kind of protagonist, then it wouldn't have been as acceptable to gamers in todays market due to how the genre has evolved. I don't think the emphasis of the logic for Ness being tossed out should be focused on his character development.

I point to the fact of which character is more iconic? Which character is more popular world-wide? Nintendo made the decision to NOT release Mother 3 in the US, and I'm also assuming Europe and many other countries as well. Why would they make the poster boy of Mother in Brawl a Japanese only character when they have the option of putting up someone that has been represented in a game that hit everyone elses shores? It's not very logical from that point of view.

One last thing, the whole theory of Ness not making the cut comes purely from Starmen.net. If they hadn't said Ness was out people wouldn't have the same conviction of him being removed. While Starmen.net is a hell of a lot more likely source for this kind of unofficial information than many others, it is still unofficial. We cannot build assumptions off of rumors.

@Lavis: Dear god man, change your font color. You are ****** our eyes. You don't put dark text on black, make it lighter!

 

[Deleted member]

I stopped reading after the first paragraph or so where you say that Ness was barely developed as a character which is a reason you list for him not being in.

Mario, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Peach, Link, Pit, Wario, Samus, Pokemon Trainer, Yoshi, Ice Climbers, Meta Knight, King Dedede, etc. (I could go on forever) are not developed characters either. Nintendo's games mainly focus on great gameplay not story.

The only ones that you could argue had a developed story are Snake, and possibly Ike. I know Snake is but I haven't played Fire Emblem so I don't know about Ike, but I heard the game has a lot of text so I would assume they do something with him.

I'm a huge Ness fan, and no I DO NOT think he will be back. However your post is extremely poorly written and has so many inconsistencies I couldn't even finish it. Horrible.

EDIT: By the way I have an "insider" telling me Ness is back and I STILL find it unbelievable, unless Sakurai is bringing clones back. So I agree he will likely not be back but I just want to reiterate how far off from reality your train of thought is.

 

[lookatthatbaconsizzle]

I see no probalem with Ness's removable. His yoyo moves sucked... well basically all his smash moves sucked except for that baseball bat.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Two things I see wrong with that:
1) It's a matter of opinion, not fact... And not everybody will agree.

That's bull**** and you know it. If a character is badly developed, it's not an opinion. It is a fact. It is a fact that Aragorn was a well-developed character with a backstory, weaknesses, and such. Likewise, it is true that Chell (Portal main character) is a completely mysterious and blank protagonist. This isn't an opinion. Aragorn is a deeper character with more personality than Chell. Same thing with Lukas and Ness.

2) Ness isn't the only 'silent avatar' in the game, he shouldn't be singled out for this.

Yeah, but Lukas is more vocal, thus better. Sure, you can't kick Link out in favor of Midna just because Link never talks. He's too important. Ness and Lukas, though, or both very important characters and more or less interchangable.

 

[maxpower1227]

Earthbound's story did little to nothing to develop the character Ness was. The rest of the cast had more depth to them then Ness had, as Ness was the cliche chosen one with a silent demeanor. there was a story, but it was as linear as you could get. The crucial aspect of a storyline is character development, as it helps the player relate and understand the troubles and emotions a character can go through. Ness had pathetically poor character development, if any.

So what kind of deep character development have Mario, Link, Samus, Kirby, Fox and Donkey Kong received?

 

[lookatthatbaconsizzle]

So what kind of deep character development have Mario, Link, Samus, Kirby, Fox and Donkey Kong received?

None, their games are just ten times better. Galaxy FTW!!!

 

[DekuBoy]

I think that characters personalities don't matter. despite single-player modes the main part about smash is it's multi-player.
ps: who thinks tommorrows update will be Ness? Sakurai likes to screw around with our minds!

 

[lookatthatbaconsizzle]

I think that characters personalities don't matter. despite single-player modes the main part about smash is it's multi-player.
ps: who thinks tommorrows update will be Ness? Sakurai likes to screw around with our minds!

I don't think so, even though I know this is a joke.

 

[LavisFiend]

I hate this "I don't hate Ness, but his supporters are idiots for supporting him threads" seriously if you don't care about the character why the hell do you need to create a thread like this?

And to think...I used to think of you as one of the members with common sense...

Look, it is fine if you don't read the post, but don't put words in my mouth, that ticks me off...

I never called anybody an idiot for supporting him, as I do support him, but not to the lengths that I used to.

and I created this thread because out of all the Ness bashing, mine is not flammatory and has solid logic as to why I think him being removed as a playable character has ground.

Seriously man, I can't stand people like you who assume things of others without taking in the whole scene.

@Mookierah: Sorry. but it looks fine on my monitor, and it looks great, sexy even.

but seeing as how you are the only one complaining about it, I don't think you should use the term "our," as noone else but you made this statement. However, if more users are having trouble seeing it, then I will change it. Till then, tough it out. XD

 

[Red Exodus]

I don't see the big deal, Lucas is basically Ness with a few minor changes in moveset which would have happened regardless of the character change.