Something I think Ness Diehards need to consider (long read)

[Wolffe]

"There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now, and Lucas is very similar."

Let's rewind that.

"There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now, and Lucas is very similar."

Instant replay.

"There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now, and Lucas is very similar."

Slow mo

"uuuuuuuup untiiiiiiiil noooooooow"

That should do'er.

Have you missed all the threads and posts about the translation being misleading, or just trolling?

 

[psyniac_123]

(Before I start, I, like so many, don't mind what happens to Ness. He's gonna return? Fine. Not? Okay. S'all good to me.)

Personally, I'm wavering towards Ness being kicked out, as we have 99% sure evidence ("up until now" may be a mistranslation, but I doubt it very much). But all I'm seeing is perfectly good reason for him to be out of Brawl and no good proof of him still have a possibility.
Ness-fans, where's your evidence he won't be kicked out?

 

[OATH]

lulz....kicking ness out would be a mistake..would make ness fans unhappy..why cant he just have lucas and ness...i dont get it. seriously im gonna play melee a couple times when brawl is out and im gonna say who is this ness character..>____>, such a bad move

 

[PKnight]

I glazed over most of this thread, but I felt like I'd add my two cents in.

I've played as Ness in both the 64 version and the Melee version, and I adored the Earthbound game. That being said though, Lucas is a fine replacement. Lucas was very fleshed out in Mother 3, he has some solid looking attacks with those fancy hexagons, and PK Freeze > PK Flash.
Oh, and his hair is of course wicked awesome.
Plus the rope snake makes getting back a much less cumbersome task as it was with Ness, who had to rely solely on his PK Thunder. Which while fun, was still mildly tedious from time to time.

However, the role of Ness in Earthbound, along with pretty much any silent protagonist, should never be downplayed.
Ness' character development is linked directly to the person playing as him. The player gets to include his favorite food, his favorite thing to do, etc., in order to make him feel as though Ness is his representation in the EarthBound universe.
If Ness was to emote constantly and say things, that would take away from the personality given to him subconsciously by the player.
If Ness did something that the player would not do, then that sense of 'Role-playing' is taken away.
As is the basic case with nearly all silent protagonists.
I would list a whole bunch off, but I'm sure you all know plenty of them already.
Without the silent protagonists, Brawl would probably have quite a few less heroes.

In anycase, I understand the move from Ness to Lucas.
Like I mentioned, Lucas is great, and his character has depth that people can relate to. Plus again, who doesn't love his hair? I mean honestly?
The point here is really the fact that Lucas basically has everything Ness had (I'm still hoping he gets the baseball bat xD ), and the wording that Sakurai uses basically sums it up.

We will miss you Ness, but Lucas will take care of your spot with MOTHER pride. <3

 

[Brawl Melee 64]

Sad that Ness is gone, but its not all bad becuase Lucas will be carrying out his legacy.
From the wording of the translation it could go either way, but I think Ness has a very small chance. I wish all the original 12 could make a comeback though.

Have you missed all the threads and posts about the translation being misleading, or just trolling?

Nah, hes just being funny

 

[Wight]

i dont see why only ness diehards could want him back.. i mean i dont main ness, i rarely play him, but still i want him back cos he has been around since 64. even though lucas is similar, its not the same with out ness.

 

[T-Nice]

Ness will be missed, but why can't people now see Ness as a classic... the god father of Earthbound/Mother series; now the legacy is carried on by a new boy in the series... Lucas.

Lucas has everything Ness had; short, cute, and his trademark look. I think Lucas is a great looking character, and looks like he's bursting with personality in this game, he actually looks like he fits in with the rest of the crew. And the Ice Climbers have hella personality, they're cute also, and they give off the whole "We may be small, and cuddly... but we're determined to win! *Popo and Nana high 5*

And stop will all this "rest in peace Ness" crap... Ness isn't dead, he just retired. And why does everyone care about the 12 so much, Sakurai didn't care for the starting 12 if he planned to put Lucas in his spot since Melee?

Classic in the Nintendo world, Classic to Smash... Period.

 

[MookieRah]

Sakurai didn't care for the starting 12 if he planned to put Lucas in his spot since Melee?

What the hell are you talking about? Why do people hear some random *** rumor from some ****ty source and assume that it's true? Why do people not QUESTION any information they get these days? Where is your proof that Sakurai wanted to replace Ness with Lucas in Melee? Can you even prove that Lucas *existed* when Melee came out?? All the shots of Mother 3 for the N64DD had a character that looked just like Ness in it, so I really doubt Lucas was even conceived prior to Melee.

 

[ifoundwaldo512]

im with ya lavisfiend. Nothing wrong with ness, but I never EVER play as him under any circumstances no how no way in hell I would ever remoteley consider wanting to think about playing as him.

 

[DekuBoy]

I want all the characters with original movesets to definitly return from Melee. When Lucas was confirmed I had my first true worries about the game. hopefully Sakurai can put these worries to rest once and for all.

 

[MookieRah]

Is anyone willing to address where the "rumor" of Sakurai loving Mother 3 and hating Earthbound? Seriously, if the vast amount of pessimists are using this as any form of debate I'd like to see where it came from. Until someone reveals some form of official source of this, we should assume that it is a complete and total fabrication.

 

[Level 9]

MookieRah, If your looking for hard cold proof of one claim over the other I don't really think ether side has one... Rather this is more or less a debate of logic & speculaton... And while to that ends it could easily be viewed as one hell of a waste of time, it's also kinda nice to feel like you have the right answers & have SOME kind of barring on the situation at hand... IE. Religion...

...

....

..... Good god we need to get lives...

 

[Kittah4]

MookieRah, apparently the rumor about ness being replaced in Melee, or planned to, is stated on the Japanese Melee site, where I think you can actually see "MOTHER 3" in there amongst the Eastern Runic. However, it was BECAUSE Mother 3 was pushed back that Ness got a second seat, according to translation. That's why people feel like Sakurai has been rushing to boot Ness out.

Edit: Link
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/0717/index.html

Translation of the paragraph in question...
To tell the truth at the beginning, it was the schedule which is modified in the protagonist of MOTHER3, but there being a variety, while detouring, it was settled in the original sheath.

And there you have it, thats why people have been saying that Ness is disliked.

 

[MookieRah]

MookieRah, If your looking for hard cold proof of one claim over the other

I'm not looking for proof of either or, cause with the information we have now we cannot prove anything; however, I'm asking for people to validate the rumors they hear which is why they believe Ness will be leaving in the first place.

is stated on the Japanese Melee site, where I think you can actually see "MOTHER 3" in there amongst the Eastern Runic. However, it was BECAUSE Mother 3 was pushed back that Ness got a second seat, according to translation. That's why people feel like Sakurai has been rushing to boot Ness out.

Well that makes sense, partially, but not really. If this was on the old japanese melee site prior to melee's release then the Mother 3 as we know it didn't exist. Mother 3 was a game that was in development FOREVER and they constantly changed things about it. I specifically remember reading in Gamepro years back about Mother 3 aka Earthbound 2, that was to be released on the 64DD (disc drive) and there they had 3D renders of what looked like Ness (although it might have not been Ness, seeing as how Ninten and Ness looked virtually identical). I very much doubt that Lucas even existed and much less was going to be any part of Melee.

Another thing, can anyone actually verify that the Mother 3 emblem was actually on the Japanese site prior to Melee's launch? Until someone does that, even though the Mother 3 rumor sounds more legit it still doesn't make it true.

 

[FlatSoda]

Someone give me cold hard concrete evidence that Sakurai stated himself favoring Lucas over Ness. :/

:D

 

[Kittah4]

It doesn't get much colder than what I posted, flatsoda. It says there that from the beggining, they planned for the "protagonist of Mother 3" to be in, but since there was a delay in that game, they went with the "original sheath", or Ness. Can't get much crueler than that.

 

[FlatSoda]

Hm. Someone whoever encounters Sakurai for an interview should ask this. :[
But I'm sure it'll be avoided. D:~

 

[Level 9]

I'm not looking for proof of either or, cause with the information we have now we cannot prove anything; however, I'm asking for people to validate the rumors they hear which is why they believe Ness will be leaving in the first place.

Ah!... Well In my case there isn't any really... Just speculatons based on a few things here & there...

For one... As I said before, The Mother series is manly a japanese one seeing as only one instalment of it has been released outside of japan so far... So my logic tells me that whatever's up to date for them is the most likely to go...

Also on that note Marth & Roy seem to be MIA as well, So far seemingly being replaced as well with more up to date characters for there respective series...

And to that ends so far we haven't seen anything rather it be stage or item related with any kind of significant relevants to ether Earthbound or Fire Emblem 1-2 as of yet...

All this to me is mounting information that so far isn't speaking to friendly about holding out hope that Ness well still be in Brawl...

 

[Shin Virus]

someone should do a ness goodbye video and post it on youtube, i'm surprised there isn't one out


choice of music should be" here without you" by 3 doors down

 

[BrianM]

While i've never had the chance to play Earthbound or Mother 3 sadly, I have played Chrono Trigger almost to the obsessive point back in the day & I can honestly say that Crono did have plenty of character development...

Somehow at some point in time (no pun intended) Crono was labeled as a mute because he never said anything you could read without the players help...

But he did in fact talk repeatedly during the game... You the player chose his words for him to help along with whatever path you wanted to go down to reach the end of the game...

So in a strange way it was ment to be like Crono had your personality even though he talked & had a role to play out of his own...

So while everyone else already had a story to tell you where helping make Crono's... I thought it was a brilliant system for character development myself...

Ugh. No. There's absolutely no disputing whether or not he has character development, Jesus Christ. Choosing what options to pick has nothing to do with character development, that's more like just giving you more variety in the plot and game of Chrono Trigger (which is what makes it so great), NOT because Crono has a ton of character development. -.- If you're looking for character development, Lucca, Robo, Magus, etc. have more character development because they have their own dialogue and story. Their thoughts and actions are clear and understood -- they don't have to have other people automatically understand what he/she just said, without them actually saying anything, unlike Crono.

Crono never changed at all, really. Right from the get go, he wants to save the random girl (Marle). And later on, he wants to save more people, and save other people from Lavos (and kills himself in the process). How the hell do you call that development?

 

[lookatthatbaconsizzle]

Someone give me cold hard concrete evidence that Sakurai stated himself favoring Lucas over Ness. :/

:D

This one is good, too. except those eyebrows dont look like they fit against that DARK hair. but nice, very nice!

 

[Level 9]

Ugh. No. There's absolutely no disputing whether or not he has character development, Jesus Christ. Choosing what options to pick has nothing to do with character development, that's more like just giving you more variety in the plot and game of Chrono Trigger (which is what makes it so great), NOT because Crono has a ton of character development. -.- If you're looking for character development, Lucca, Robo, Magus, etc. have more character development because they have their own dialogue and story. Their thoughts and actions are clear and understood -- they don't have to have other people automatically understand what he/she just said, without them actually saying anything, unlike Crono.

Crono never changed at all, really. Right from the get go, he wants to save the random girl (Marle). And later on, he wants to save more people, and save other people from Lavos (and kills himself in the process). How the hell do you call that development?

Well... This is a hard one for me to answer... More or less I can't really say anything on the subject that wouldn't just be a repeat of what I've said already...

I do understand your logic as it makes perfect sense considering Crono was more then not ment to be a blank slate that the player used to feel like they where part of the game, But as I said that was the point... He was just some kid who lived with his mother and that was it... Then you come along as the game player & get to experience along with Crono the crazyness that unfolds up to the end...

You get to experience the most interesting part of Crono's life rite alongside him as it happens... Really all you do as the game player is A. interpret through your own eyes how Crono feels & B. slightly influence his decisions as to how some events in the game unfold...

His story so to speak is what happens right before your eyes as you play through the game... He was just designed to further make it feel like you where him by choosing his words for him... But all in all he still was a strate forward character where you knew where he stood on things... He wasn't completely subject to your will just like in most asian rpgs of its day...