Some falcon questions

[JeezImSoBored]

Q: is there a point of reverse upB recovery vs Marth? (it feels harder to tech their fsmashes and gets tippered by dtilt)
Q: I keep getting faird by marth when you try to combo after throws (am I doing uair too slow? if not, what should i do against it?)
Q: does lv7 cpu relly have random DI (saw a youtube video that says this)
Q: is shield drop faster than jump OOS and grab OOS? (how good shielddroping on platform out of pressure )

 

[Hax]

1. you can't tech when you reverse up-B recover (assuming you magnet the ledge, which is the whole point of reverse up-B), but it helps you dodge the fsmash/dtilt altogether. its the better option if the Marth has to dash from the other end of the stage before they dtilt/fsmash, as they'll have to run slightly more to hit you, which may cause them to not make it in time. if they don't have to run to make it to you, just up-b normally so that you have the option of teching

2. yeah you're too slow; this shouldn't happen

3. idk

4. grab OOS sucks, learn to never do it unless they clearly messed up their shield pressure. if they're on the same platform as you then shielddropping is good, but if they're pressuring you from below you don't want to shielddrop onto them. fullhop OOS is good defensively

 

[Keblerelf]

1. you can't tech when you reverse up-B recover

wait really? I thought it made it easier to tech because his body is turned towards the stage

 

[ShrieK1295]

I'm pretty sure I can tech fine when I do reverse up+b. Maybe it's harder though.

 

[Hax]

when I reverse up-b I magnet as hard as possible, which makes it impossible to tech. it's better for magneting than up-B facing the stage because falcon's hitbox is more favorable vs several edgeguarding moves (his arm is extended outwards rather than inwards)

yeah ofc you can tech if you reverse up-B and hug the wall. in terms of how difficult teching is, I actually prefer facing the stage, but that's probably because I'm more used to it

 

[JeezImSoBored]

thanks for the replies!
i think hax is right, the whole point of reverse up B is to be as far from the ledge as possible so it's basically impossible to tech unless you do some crazy ass smashDI.
hold up,
but s2j said this in the other thread "in general I think teching is a lot easier if you up-b backwards, your hitbox is safer and it makes it seem a lot easier to tech than up-ing normally if you up-b normally (because you have to), i've found that c-stick DIing into the ledge makes it more likely for you to tech"

also falcosmassacure01 talked about the fair countering falcon's grab combo here http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...ver-made-ever-ever.74541/page-10#post-1786099 so I'm a little confused about which is actually true

 

[gravy]

Alright so I have a very definitive answer for this. The first thing you need to understand is that grabs increase in power every 7 percent starting at 3%. Thus, the throws at early percents against marth should only be distinguished as 0-2, 3-9, 10-16, 17-23, 24-30, and 31+%. As far as grab follow ups at these percents go, from 0-16% we have no true follow ups against away di. Granted, there are still follow ups, but the marth can fair or dj out. However, against neutral or in DI you can dthrow regrab them or dthrow nair them.

17% is where **** starts to get real. Even with away di, you can uthrow regrab marth guaranteed, and if they di neutrally or in you can uair or nair them (depending on di). When you get a grab at 31%, you can uthrow uair them no matter what. Even with away di and spamming defensive options, it WILL connect if done correctly. After that, you need to use your knowledge of your character to kill the hell out of that tiara wearing ****.

With this in mind, here is a simple strategy to **** the balls off of marth. Let's say you grab him at 17%. Here's your time to shine. Pummel him once, which will get you closer to that magical 31 number and give him time to start di-ing away. Now uthrow regrab him, and pummel him twice. Now look at that, you're past 31. Now it's time to finish your food.
Also, if someone is letting you pummel them excessively at low percents, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT.

 

[JeezImSoBored]

holy crap you just blew my **** mind. never knew how good pummel is thankss.

 

[gravy]

Haha no problem mang.
Magus's post on this page http://www.smashboards.com/threads/scar-talks-lean-melee-2012yotf.197123/page-144#post-8894919 shows the throw scaling at higher percentages.

 

[ShrieK1295]

A lot of good players can get out if you pummel them even once below ~30%. Then again, I live in Europe, where the standards are radically different (for instance, even European scrubs tend to be as good at power shielding as top Americans, but they suck ass at ledge guarding my reverse up b). If you ever get a chance to play against Hack, I guarantee you he will get out of some of your grabs at <10% even if you are trying to throw him as fast as you possibly can.

 

[gravy]

Yah, you're going to have to find where your opponent stands on that. I'm trying to figure out how to know how many guaranteed pummels you can get.

 

[JeezImSoBored]

Another question: is F-smash faster or knee faster ? and which one is stronger?

Another question: i know you can't gentleman without hitting anything, but which hit is the one that has to hit something for gentlemen to work?

 

[ShrieK1295]

Another question: is F-smash faster or knee faster ? and which one is stronger?

Another question: i know you can't gentleman without hitting anything, but which hit is the one that has to hit something for gentlemen to work?

FSmash comes out on frame 18. Jump comes out on frame 5 and knee on 14, so that's 19 if you do it perfectly, so fsmash will probably be ~3 frames faster. You also can gentleman hitting nothing if you just do the AAA hold method. Otherwise, I think you need the third hit to hit, but I could be wrong, as I've been playing pal for some months now.

edit: yes my bad j00t, I meant fsmash is faster

 

[j00t]

Don't you mean fsmash comes out faster?

And I'm about 95% sure that it can be any hit of the jab sequence that you have to hit in order to gentleman

 

[gravy]

No, you don't have to hit anything to get a gentleman. The reason that hitting makes gentleman easier is because it increases the duration of the gentleman via hitlag. The way that the game decides whether you get a gentleman is by dividing total time of gentleman/amount of time spent with button pushed down. Thus, hitting someone increases the time, giving you a bigger numerator and getting you towards that mysterious acceptable number. You can test this to be true by gentlemanning the air really slowly while still releasing the buttons quickly. Also, if you hold the last button press until your next action, it won't be counted towards amount of time with button pressed, making it more likely you will gentleman.

 

[JeezImSoBored]

Q: when to fullhop uair vs short hop uair for combos? (ex. against marth)

 

[gravy]

That one I'm not able to answer as well :/ but intuitively, it would be in the range where the first uair doesn't knock them very far away but theyre still stunned a decent amount where you could use full hop uair to falling uair. However, I do know from experience that uthrows in the 50% area can usually be followed up with a falling knee or uair.

 

[JeezImSoBored]

Q: for auto cancel short hop uair, can you fast fall at all?
Q: if you can't, would auto cancel non-fast fall'd Uair be faster for comboing into the next uair or the SHFFLd uair be faster?

 

[gravy]

I don't think you can fast fall at all, and if you can it's only for a couple frames. As far as comboing, it's probably faster to do your fast fall unless the first uair sends them really far away.

 

[JeezImSoBored]

ok, im just wondering cuz i know you can auto cancel marth nair with delayed fast falls. wasnt sure if its the same with falcon

 

[The Irish Mafia]

uair doesnt auto cancel iirc
there's a window during shuair to double jump which implies the duration of the move is just less than the duration of the shorthop

 

[JeezImSoBored]

actually im almost 100% sure shorthop uair auto cancels. I heard it from m2k and i've been doing it. I just don't know if it'll work if you fast fall/ delayed fast fall.

 

[JeezImSoBored]

SH air time: 31 Uair Auto cancel: 22>

 

[taylosun]

Q: when to fullhop uair vs short hop uair for combos? (ex. against marth)

I think if they di a certain way, away or down or something like that, you can't follow up on a fullhop uair. I could be horribly wrong on that though. It really depends on how close you were to them when you did the uair, percents, di and whether you got a running jump or not

 

[JeezImSoBored]

new question:
falcon vs marth on FD, after a d-throw shffld Uair, usually we can regrab or jab to grab, but i was wondering, since marth will DI down and away, couldn't we just Fsmash and they will get ***** super hard? is it not plausible for watever reason? (i never see people do this)

*nvm it doesnt really "combo" into it, although f-tilt seems to work but maybe i'll work if they werent expecting it.....*

 

[BTmoney]

new question:
falcon vs marth on FD, after a d-throw shffld Uair, usually we can regrab or jab to grab, but i was wondering, since marth will DI down and away, couldn't we just Fsmash and they will get ***** super hard? is it not plausible for watever reason? (i never see people do this)

I can almost assure you that won't true combo.

Uair to fsmash? Fsmash hits on like frame 20 or some overly slow number like that.

 

[JeezImSoBored]

I can almost assure you that won't true combo.

Uair to fsmash? Fsmash hits on like frame 20 or some overly slow number like that.

yeh i just tried it on training, its not a real combo

 

[Chaos1sHere]

Another question. I've seen a lot of falcons do an aerial and land on a platform and then almost instantly drop through with another aerial.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-1Wo5c_0DQ
Mango does it against Zhu at 1:16. How is this done? Are they just canceling and pressing down and then hitting up on the c stick? I seem to get stuck on the level half the time if I just press down.

 

[Ziodyne]

There's this thing called Isai dropping. Basically, when you land, you can kinda cancel your landing animation by walking. So what Mango is doing is he aerials on the platform, L-cancels, tilts his control stick forward, then hits the control-stick down and c-sticks up.

Get that down into a fluid motion and you will know how to Isai drop.

 

[JeezImSoBored]

There's this thing called Isai dropping. Basically, when you land, you can kinda cancel your landing animation by walking. So what Mango is doing is he aerials on the platform, L-cancels, tilts his control stick forward, then hits the control-stick down and c-sticks up.

Get that down into a fluid motion and you will know how to Isai drop.

actually i dont think there's "landing lag" if u do an aerial, you can just press down after l cancel. when u l cancel, ur character is standing, whereas when u land without doing anything, the character goes into the landing animation where they crouch and gasp and all that crap

 

[JeezImSoBored]

NEW question

jab reset on marth
it feels like he gets up almost instantlly ??
is he not jab-reset-able?

 

[ShrieK1295]

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/does-jab-guarantee-slow-getup-on-non-tech.193346/#post-5327530

 

[JeezImSoBored]

new Q:
when someone is hanging on the ledge without invincibility, can falcon's UP B hit them?

 

[Ziodyne]

No
One pretty big reason why falcon's recovery blows

 

[JeezImSoBored]

yeh thats a pretty big deal

 

[RedGamer]

jeez, you're so bored!

Q: what is the best way to prepare against a new falcon player when challenging me to dittoes?
for some strange reasons, I magically don't cover options when when someone says "oh you're a falcon main? derp lets play dittoes derp!

 

[ShrieK1295]

nair them out of whatever they try to do

 

[Ziodyne]

hate random falcon dittos
most people's falcon secondaries suck ass and fighting them is a ****ing chore
i do get this strange sense of satisfaction going top/high tier secondaries and destroying bad falcon secondaries by playing to all of falcon's weaknesses

it's like S&M

 

[gravy]

There's this thing called Isai dropping. Basically, when you land, you can kinda cancel your landing animation by walking. So what Mango is doing is he aerials on the platform, L-cancels, tilts his control stick forward, then hits the control-stick down and c-sticks up.

Get that down into a fluid motion and you will know how to Isai drop.

Mango doesn't use the c stick for some ****ing reason.

 

[JeezImSoBored]

new Q (dont let non-falcon players see this)
so i think drop zone doesn't count as a guarantee KO
i think u can just di towards the stage and maybe SDI too and it'll become a reverse knee, which then u can tech jump recover and possibly kill falcon if ur falco or fox with side B or downAir or shine
please correct me if im wrong (i hope im wrong)