Sol Badguy Rides the Fire!

MojoRobo

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#1

A total, absolute, pipe dream, but here's the support thread for Sol Badguy, main protagonist of Guilty Gear!

Guilty Gear and Sol Badguy: An Introduction

Guilty Gear is the front-running fighting game series created by Arc System Works. Originally beginning on the original Playstation with Guilty Gear in 1998, the series is known for its unique mechanics that pioneered the subgenre of "anime fighter", such as airdashing, Roman Cancels, and a mechanic known as Burst, used to escape combos. Guilty Gear is highly praised for both its long-standing, well balanced, and immensely fun gameplay while preserving its old-school difficulty, as well as its cast of incredibly unique and diverse characters. The most recent entry of the series is Guilty Gear Xrd -Sign- released in December 2014 for consoles. A second version, Guilty Gear Xrd -Revelator-, was released in May 2016 for consoles. The third and final version of the game, Guilty Gear Xrd Rev 2, was released in May 2017 for consoles.

Why Sol?
You might think: "We already have Ryu in Smash, why do we need another fighting game representative?"
While this is a fair point, I would like to mention that Ryu only represents his specific genre of fighting games, being the traditional 1v1 fighter. For those unaware, the mechanics of Street Fighter and Guilty Gear are extremely different. Street Fighter plays much slower, with shorter combos and much more emphasis on dominating the neutral game and using pokes to get small hits in. Guilty Gear, on the flipside, is much more explosive, with a ton of mobility options, much faster pacing in its fights, and flashy, long combos. If we were to use Smash terms, Street Fighter is Smash 4 while Guilty Gear is Melee (Though this is MASSIVELY oversimplifying things). Simply speaking, Sol has the potential to represent an important, and very different subgenre of fighting games when compared to Ryu.


How would he fight?
Sol fights with both his immense physical strength, as well as his weapon, the Junkyard Dog Mk3, a blade that makes up for its lack of real cutting power by being able to produce extremely hot flames. Sol is a very well-rounded, yet rushdown-focused character. Despite being the main character, he is actually not the "Ryu" of Guilty Gear (With that honor going to his rival, Ky). He's only somewhat of an all-rounder, and has a much greater emphasis on getting in his opponent's face and staying there, bullying them with his great normals and converting into huge damage off of counter hits without needing to spend many resources. He has a projectile, but you don't use it for zoning or controlling neutral, you use it to cover your approach and apply pressure on a blocking opponent.

This isn't even mentioning his potential for extremely unique mechanics. His subgenre has a whole bevvy of techniques that could be put into place. While these will be explained later, he could incorporate airdashing, Roman Cancels, and Burst into his Smash moveset.

Overall, Sol would be a heavy offense character, with an emphasis on scaring the opponent with his terrifying close range capabilities and punishing them hard for letting him get anywhere near them.

What would his moveset look like?
This is where the fun comes in: Sol has his moveset almost built in from the get-go, but it can still be tweaked to give very interesting properties to them in a Smash Bros. setting.
Normals
Jab Combo

A simple 3 hit jab combo that ends with a slightly strong launcher. Takes the animations from his 5P, 5K, and c.S from Guilty Gear Xrd.


Tilts

Ftilt

A far reaching tilt that could be used as a tool in neutral. Would likely have solid damage and good knockback. Takes the animation from his f.S from Guilty Gear Xrd.

Utilt

A tall, anti-air tilt. Could be used as a launcher to start air combos or as a combo tool. Takes the animation from his 2H from Guilty Gear Xrd.

Dtilt

A very low-profile sweep kick. Would likely be used both as a neutral poke and as a combo starter, depending on where you hit it. Takes the animation from his 2D from Guilty Gear Xrd.

Aerials

Nair

A simple, short-ranged, and quick two-hit attack. Likely used as a jump-in move on shields. Takes the animation from his j.H from Guilty Gear Xrd.

Fair

A strong, downward angled sword swing. Would have strong damage and fairly solid knockback. Would also hit below Sol to a degree. Takes the animation from his j.S from Guilty Gear Xrd.

Bair

Sol's infamous jumping Dust. Would be a powerful, quick move, with both use in combos and as a strong kill option, similar to Falco's. Takes the animation from, of course, his j.D from Guilty Gear.

Uair
This is a hard one to figure out. Likely would need to be an original move. For now, I will leave this empty, but if you have a suggestion, don't be afraid to post it!

Dair

A stall-n-fall divekick dair that drops quickly. Would likely have a spike hitbox near the beginning. On contact with any terrain, Sol would unleash a large pillar of flames that would launch the opponent into the air, bouncing them off of the ground. Takes the animation from Sol's Kudakero (j.214K) special attack from Guilty Gear Xrd.
Smashes
Fsmash

Sol's powerful 6H, aka "Tombstone". Lifting up and driving his weapon into the ground, this attack would work one of two ways: Either serving as a powerful kill move, or as a move that buries the opponent on hit. If hitting an aerial opponent, though, it would definitely result in a brutally strong spike. Takes the animation from his 6H from Guilty Gear Xrd.

Usmash

Heeeeere's Dust! Sol swings his open hand upwards, resulting in a brutally strong, yet slow, up smash. Takes the animation from his 5D from Guilty Gear Xrd.

Dsmash
Not much to work with for this one. Would likely need to be an original move. Open to suggestions.
Grabs + Throws
Grab + Pummel

Sol grabs his opponent by the collar. Pummel would be a strong, yet very slow headbutt. Uses the animation from the first hit of Sol's Wild Throw (623K) special attack from Guilty Gear Xrd.

Bthrow AND Dthrow

The ending hit of Sol's Wild Throw special attack. Would ground bounce the opponent into the air slightly above Sol. Bthrow launched them behind Sol while Dthrow does the opposite. Ground bounce would be 100% untechable.

Fthrow and Uthrow
Again, not much to work with on this one. Likely would just be original moves. Post suggestions if you have them.
Specials + Final Smash
Gunflame
Neutral B OR 236+A

Sol's signature Gunflame special. A projectile that consists of multiple pillars of fire exploding forth from the ground in a row. Would likely have large shieldstun. Can be made more powerful by doing the original motion input from Guilty Gear.

Bandit Revolver
Side B OR 236+B

Sol's idea of a Tatsumaki. A leaping, quick, overhead kick attack. Sol would jump into the air for this, likely higher and faster than Corrin's own Side B. Would be a quick attack possibly used to close in during neutral or as a combo tool. Can be made more powerful by doing the original motion input. But wait! There's more:

Bandit Bringer
Side B (Hold) OR 236+B (Hold)

A strong, overhead strike. Sol delays the attack for longer than Bandit Revolver, but gets an immensely strong attack off of it with both high damage, knockback, and shield damage. Would launch grounded opponents into the air, but would hit aerial opponents with a powerful spike.

Volcanic Viper
Up B OR 623+A

Possibly one of the strongest dragon punches in fighting games. Sol rises incredibly high up with a flaming, multi-hit uppercut. Not a kill move, but rather a combo tool to tack on way more damage than the combo would deal without it.

Tataki Otoshi
B OR 214+A (At any time during Volcanic Viper)

A finisher attack to Volcanic Viper. Sol finishes off the attack with an overhead kick, resulting in a brutally powerful spike to the opponent.

Grand Viper
Down B OR 214+A

An incredibly fast, low-profile attack where Sol quickly speeds across the ground, catching any opponent unlucky enough to not be blocking into a massive amount of multi-hits. Hold the button to extend to sliding attack for longer, or push it again to end with an absurdly strong kill move. Be warned, however, if you reach the ledge while sliding Sol will drag them off the stage with him as he continues downward at an angle.
Branding Breach

Sol activates his Dragon Install and then proceeds to rush forward with a straight punch engulfed in flames. If it connects, he will then go into his Instant Kill from Guilty Gear Xrd: Branding Breach, where he rushes forwards and punches his opponent in the gut with the Junkyard Dog, engulfing them in a massive explosion that rends the earth around them. The move would deal incredible damage and strong knockback, but would instantly kill if the opponent is over 100% damage.

Video for reference:

What would make Sol unique?
Sol has a lot of potential to bring totally unique mechanics to Smash. His source game pioneered a subgenre of its own, and Sol would need to adequately represent it were he to make an appearance. Here are just a couple of ideas:

Airdash
A staple of the anime fighter subgenre. Sol would be able to choose between either a normal double jump, or the ability to move horizontally forward or backwards through the air. Sol would not be able to airdodge during the beginning of the airdash, replicating how you cannot block during the first few frames of an airdash, but would be able to act out of it very quickly. This would open up a new avenue of aerial game that other fighters would not be able to replicate.

Tension Gauge

A major mechanic in Guilty Gear is your Tension Gauge, or just your regular super gauge. Every character in Guilty Gear has multiple options on how to spend their Tension Gauge, and it all depends on what the player believes is the best option in the moment. Tension would be fundamentally different from the Final Smash Meter, in that Tension would be consumed to give Sol access to powerful options for different occasions. This introduces the concept of meter management into Smash, and would give Sol an extra avenue of depth to his entire meta as a character, giving him powerful tools at a cost that he must make intelligent use of.

Faultless Defense
An extra avenue of defense. It drains your Tension Gauge, but in exchange your character will prop up a shield that blocks all incoming chip damage. In Smash, you would likely use this to become immune to shield damage in exchange for Tension.

Roman Cancels
The Roman Cancel is a mechanic pioneered by Guilty Gear. Essentially, the Roman Cancel system is a way for you to extend your combos, as for spending a certain amount of Tension, you can entirely cancel the animation of an attack you are currently doing and suffer no endlag. There are three types of Roman Cancels that would likely be implemented into Smash. Yellow, Red, and Purple, indicated by the flash of aura your character displays while using them.

Yellow Roman Cancels (YRC) occur when you cancel a move while your opponent is not in hitstun or blockstun. They consume 25% of your Tension Gauge to activate and provide a very brief period (18 frames) of slowed down time. They are mostly used to make slow, whiffed moves safe.
Red Roman Cancels (RRC) occur when you cancel a move while your opponent is in hitstun or blockstun. They consume 50% of your Tension Gauge and will provide a full second of slowed down time (60 frames) to allow for ease of extending combos.
Purple Roman Cancels (PRC) occur when you cancel a move during the recovery frames. They consume 50% of your Tension Gauge and will provide a short time (40 frames) of slow down. Certain attacks such as Volcanic Viper cannot be PRC'd.

In Smash, Roman Cancels would likely work much the same way, in an effort to represent one of the defining gameplay features of Guilty Gear.

Burst
Another staple of both Guilty Gear and the anime fighter subgenre. This is a powerful, yet expensive tool that allows your character to spend a precious resource to instantly break out of any combo they are caught in. There is a whole sub-metagame built around Burst within Guilty Gear, and you must be smart about your usage, as it takes a long time to get it back again. If you use it incorrectly, you are likely to be subject to a brutal reset and full damage combo, but when used correctly it is a valuable defensive option to let you survive.
There are one of two ways that Burst could be implemented into Smash. One, tie it to a separate Burst meter, similar to Guilty Gear, or two, tie it to the Tension Gauge and have it consume 100% Tension.
Regardless, Burst would likely work how it does in Guilty Gear when used, Sol would rise a short distance into the air and release a burst of energy, spawning a hitbox that knocks the opponent away.

Conclusion
Sol represents a genre of fighting games that have no presence in Smash yet, and is the most popular representative for that genre. He brings a ton of possibilities for mechanics that Smash has never seen before, and has the potential of being one of the most unique fighters in the series' history. He may not be the absolutely most popular character, and definitely is obscure within the Smash community, but the potential he has to spice the game up in his own unique way, I feel, more than justifies his inclusion into the series.


Credits go to Dustloop for all pictures provided here. They are a very useful resource for anyone looking to get into fighting games similar to Guilty Gear. Check them out!

Current Supporters!
toonito
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Kirbeh
 
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SvartWolf

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#3
While sol isn't my main guy , I totally support him or more like, i totally support the inclusion of guilty gear in smash, which will means Sol Badguy.

STILL though... as far as generic bland boring protagonist go... Sol have the adventage of not being neither bland nor boring nor generic, so yay? XD

(also if people though Bayonetta was frustrating XD)

support!
 

KHJason95

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#8
COUNT! ME! IN!

Sol Badguy is one of the few left-handed swordfighters to be remembered by me! Arc System Works, please allow this!
 

SvartWolf

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#10
is somewhat sad that almost all teh list I am as a supporter barely have 10 supporters T.T
I know this not gonna happpen.. but it would be amazing :D

(yet still i got plenty of characters ive suported on the game... Wolf in brawl, Robin and Bayonetta on Sm4sh, Simon and Ridley on ultimate :3)
 

Scribe

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#11
I'm working on a series of moveset concepts for traditional fighter characters, and decided to pop in here to see what y'all have in mind for Sol and cross-reference it with what I have so far.

I guess the one thing I've noticed compared to y'all is that while MojoRobo MojoRobo seems to be basing his take on Sol primarily on his Xrd kit (and specifically his kit from Revelator onwards), I have sort of a "greatest hits" version of Sol, drawing from his Xrd and XX kits and even a little bit from Order-Sol. So a few of my ideas y'all might find interesting:
  • Rather than the tension meter and the mechanics that come with it, I used gatling chains and super jumps as Sol's unique mechanic.
  • I went with 2S instead of 2D for his down-tilt, and used 2D as his down-smash. I also considered 2K for his down-tilt at one point
  • Since you didn't mention a dash attack, I chose Fafnir as his for my moveset concept.
  • I went with his old 6HS as his forward-smash, rather than his current one.
  • For aerials, I went with j.K as his neutral air, j.HS as his down air, and Order-Sol's j.K as his up air. I've also considered having j.S as his neutral air and Order Sol's j.HS as his forward air.
  • For his throws, I used his standard ground throw for his pummel, Wild Throw for his back throw, 6P for his forward throw, the Tombstone 6HS for his down throw and his air throw for his up throw
  • I kept Gunflame as his grounded Neutral Special, but gave him Blockhead Buster (Order-Sol's 236+P) as his airborne neutral special.
  • I also kept Grand Viper as his grounded Down Special, but make Kudakero (his divekick) his airborne Down Special
  • I avoided motion input specials entirely. One of the constraints I'm following with my project is deliberately avoiding motion inputs and the light/heavy system to keep those things unique to Ryu and Ken. I want to show that there's enough interesting and unique stuff going on mechanically with other traditional fighter characters that they could function in Smash even without those systems (or at least while doing something different with them)
I do think going with tension and the mechanics associated with it instead of gatling chains would probably be a more unique idea with a lot more design space to it, but there's some things I'd keep in mind:

First, mapping the inputs for them - a lot of these mechanics work in Guilty Gear work because it's a five button game. If you ignore jump and grab, Smash just has three buttons - attack, special and shield. Guilty Gear has a whopping 26 possible unique button combinations, while Smash only has four. Two of Smash's are used for universal mechanics (attack + shield for grabs, attack + special for smash attacks).

This means that you have only two unused combinations available - shield + special and all three at once. Faultless Defense is the easiest to map - hold special while shielding, just like Inkling's reload. The upshot of the other two is that either one can be made context sensitive - e.g. you can remove YRC in idle states and only make it work while in an attack animation, and have it share its input with one of the other options.

I'd also have Burst use its own meter, both for accuracy to Guilty Gear and for balance purposes - keeping it on a cooldown timer independent of your super meter makes it harder to abuse. If you wanna keep the UI from getting too cluttered, I'd consider maybe ditching the visible Burst meter and instead just using the blue lightning VFX that characters have when their Burst is ready.

Another idea: giving him at least one of his supers (I'd prefer Dragon Install but Tyrant Rave would also be great). Give players something big to really build towards with meter rather than having the meter only be used for more utility-based mechanics. If there's one thing that he should have that uses motion inputs, it's his supers.
 

Mr. Robotto

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#12
I always wanted Sol in. But if he gets in with the Fighter's Pass, that means there'll be Guilty Gear tracks to come along with him. So that's an absolute YES from me!
 

KatKit

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#13
I love ArcSys. I love anime fighting games. I love Smash. So, even though I don't think this is happening, I support. If we got Guilty Gear (and/or Blazblue) songs in Smash, that'd be fantastic. I'll take Sol, complete with ridiculous Guilty Gear inputs and an Order Sol alternate costume.
 

Idon

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#14
Holy ****, this guy is the anime fighter guy (well, other than Ragna, but I like Sol more).

How does this not have more supporters as it is?

Unbelievable, you can put me down as a supporter because Sol would be ****ing awesome in Smash.
 

Flyboy

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#15
How have I missed this thread?

Guilty Gear is my absolute favorite fighter franchise of all time. XX^+ is an incredible game and one of the best ever. My mains may be Slayer and Faust, but Sol is the ****ing man. The coolest of the cool. A pick so out there and completely wild that I never even entertained it. We'd get some of Guilty Gear's incredible music, a hype fighter, and a cool stage set in that beautiful world I love so much. Sign me up hard.

Anyone else play Dust Strikers? I'm just saying, we already have proof Sol works in a platform fighter.
 
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Kirbeh

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#18
No offend,
but... how would Nintendo deal with his infamous Middle Finger taunt?
By not using it? It'd be an unfortunate omission for fans of that taunt, but characters can't have everything they've ever had when making the transition to Smash and we already have several characters with censored designs on the roster.

:ultbayonetta: - Covers more skin during Wicked Weaves, and her costume lost the diamond cut outs.
:ultcorrinf:- Given tights to cover her thighs which are normally exposed.
:ultpalutena: - Underwear changed to shorts and lower cut opening in her skirt to conceal more leg.
:ultpeach: - Void under the dress to prevent upskirt shots.
:ultdaisy: - Void under the dress to prevent upskirt shots.
:ultrosalina:- Galaxy under the dress, though I'll give this one props for at least being a little creative and fitting for Rosalina's design.
:ultsnake: - If you want to count the omission of guns, the knife, his smoking habits, and less pronounced buttocks compared to Brawl.

Not a fan of changes like these in general (Smash really needs to go back to a T rating) but I can understand a few of them at least. More so in regards to Snake's more realistic guns, but I still think with a little bit of work they could be made more stylized and use trail effects similar to Bayo's. And Joker has a knife/dagger so that argument also applies to Snake now too.

Regardless, I do still like the way he turned out in Smash given how creative they got with his moves. That said, it'd still be nice if in a future Smash game his moves could be revised a little to include the knife and at least the tranquilizer. Getting way off topic now though.

Sol's still got other taunts to use and they can just pull directly from the three he has in Xrd. After all, the Xrd version of the finger taunt uses his index finger, not the middle.
 
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#19
By not using it? It'd be an unfortunate omission for fans of that taunt, but characters can't have everything they've ever had when making the transition to Smash and we already have several characters with censored designs on the roster.

:ultbayonetta: - Covers more skin during Wicked Weaves, and her costume lost the diamond cut outs.
:ultcorrinf:- Given tights to cover her thighs which are normally exposed.
:ultpalutena: - Underwear changed to shorts and lower cut opening in her skirt to conceal more leg.
:ultpeach: - Void under the dress to prevent upskirt shots.
:ultdaisy: - Void under the dress to prevent upskirt shots.
:ultrosalina:- Galaxy under the dress, though I'll give this one props for at least being a little creative and fitting for Rosalina's design.
:ultsnake: - If you want to count the omission of guns, the knife, his smoking habits, and less pronounced buttocks compared to Brawl.

Not a fan of changes like these in general (Smash really needs to go back to a T rating) but I can understand a few of them at least. More so in regards to Snake's more realistic guns, but I still think with a little bit of work they could be made more stylized and use trail effects similar to Bayo's. And Joker has a knife/dagger so that argument also applies to Snake now too.

Regardless, I do still like the way he turned out in Smash given how creative they got with his moves. That said, it'd still be nice if in a future Smash game his moves could be revised a little to include the knife and at least the tranquilizer. Getting way off topic now though.

Sol's still got other taunts to use and they can just pull directly from the three he has in Xrd. After all, the Xrd version of the finger taunt uses his index finger, not the middle.
That gives me the idea.
What if unlike all of the characters taunts. Sols taunts would be two taunts in two sides of the D-pad. Two on the up taunt button, and the other on the side taunt button (Which is respect). This unique control scheme references the way you do taunts in Xrd, with normal taunts on the up dpad, and the respect taunts in the right/left pad.
 
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#21
Can I get on that support list? I love what little I’ve played of GG, I really love the cast of the series, and I would especially to see the series repped with Sol as a playable character! **** would be dope.
 

Kirbeh

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#22
Sakurai cares more about the CERO rating than the ESRB rating. Brawl, 4, and Ultimate are all rated A by CERO, and they had to tone things down to ensure it keeps that rating.
I guess I should've included CERO )and maybe PEGI) in my post, but when I say T, that includes the CERO equivalent. The main issue here is CERO becoming stricter about certain things over the years. Sakurai himself expressed in an interview (w/Famitsu iirc) his complaints about CERO asking to flip over female characters to check for potential up skirts and things to that effect.

This is why we have the voids under dresses, different poses for the Japanese versions of some trophies like Wonder Pink in Smash Wii U, removal of Tharja in all versions of Smash 3DS, etc.

Yet Brawl which had Peach's legs fully modeled underneath her dress still got an A rating. They were either less thorough/more lax back then or more meticulous/stricter now.

My general sentiment in regards with "going back to a T rating" is hopes that either Nintendo gives the ok on a B/C rating, or CERO becomes less strict. I'm impressed how close they managed to cut things with Smash 4/Ultimate and of course some things need to be toned down for a game like Smash Bros. That said, it'd still be nice if in the future, not as many changes would need to be made (as extremely unlikely as that may be.)
 

Kirbeh

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#24
And Joker is coming to Smash tomorrow with an even more realistic looking gun than Bayo's with the move even just straight up being called Gun...

And yes those who've played P5 will know that it's technically just a model gun, but still. His looks realistic, and Bayo's are real despite being more stylized. I don't mean to go too off topic with content ratings again, but why do we need Exdeath's void to consume Peach's legs if you can also shoot her in the face in the same game?

Again, sorry for the mini thread derailment, back to Sol. In terms of Guilty Gear content in general, I think they have just as fair a shot as any now that we have characters like Snake, Bayonetta and Joker.

The only reasonable censorship I could see on Sol would of course be the finger taunt as brought up earlier, only due to the fact that gesture is actually intended to be rude. Or rather it'd be interpreted as such by many western countries.

Possible spirits like Dizzy and Jack-O would probably get the Mythra treatment of course. It makes little sense to me along with the changes already made, but I've gone on about it enough. More over Sol would be the actual character getting in so there's no problem there.
 
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Naptec

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#25
So, Guilty Gear 20th Anniversary Pack (AKA the original GG and XX Accent Core Plus R) will release today (or tomorrow, idk) on the Switch. So, with the "the Guilty Gear series never appeared on a Nintendo console" removed, I think Sol (or Ky, depends of Nintendo's mood when he chosen the DLC characters) can have all his chances to be in Smash (and I think Order-Sol will be in his alts)

Also, put me in the list
 
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#35
The Ishiwatari music alone makes me support this idea, and GG was always cooler older sibling to even consider a BB character over it (besides being the face of Arksys I think?). Are there any other big japanese fighter developers besides Arksys missing in Smash now that SNK got a rep?
 
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#36
What I like to see is Sol having a bit of choppy movements that are unlike any other character to reference the animations from Xrd, as well as other stuff from there like the bending aspects of his model.
 

12cheeper

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#37
Just curious but is there any reason that dragon install is absent from even his FS?It's a pretty big part of his character and unlike alot of other fighting game super forms is pretty visually distinct from his base form so I'd assume if Sol did get in that Sakurai would incorporate it to some degree.
 
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#40
With news of more DLC characters and Sakurai's words implying only 3rd party characters, Sol's chances shot up definitely. I think he
s the most likely fighting game character, mainly because I don't think 3d Fighting game characters aren't getting in because of the complications of adding their gameplay to their moveset, and Mortal Kombat pretty much has no chance. And he's had many crossover appearances, despite some people saying Guilty Gear wasn't allowed to have crossovers(which was actually referring to not crossing over with Blaz Blue just yet).
 
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