Sol Badguy Rides the Fire!

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#82
I kinda miss the posters for the newcomers that were made during the wiiu era...

But you know what would be hype? if they add Sol they made an exception and give us a smash poster by Daisuke ... I mean,.. we all talk about how amazing his tracks are... but guy is also an amazing iillustrator.

From what I've learned from the Guilty Gear PCP Lecture video on YouTube, isn't Daisuke Ishiwatari considering Sol Badguy his self-insert?

If so, I can't believe we have a fanfiction element in Smash. Also, he's gonna say like, "Oh hey, I'm in Smash now."
 
Joined
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#83
I kinda miss the posters for the newcomers that were made during the wiiu era...

But you know what would be hype? if they add Sol they made an exception and give us a smash poster by Daisuke ... I mean,.. we all talk about how amazing his tracks are... but guy is also an amazing iillustrator.

the trailers in Ultimate got a lot better in comparison to 4, but yeah, I miss the posters. I can only imagine what Kojima, Soejima and maybe Toriyama? would have pulled out for this game (I don't know who the main artists behind BK and FF are).
 

GunBlaze

Smash Lord
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#84
I was fortunate that Lambda clicked with me for Blazblue; even now, I only use like 5 characters, and I'm only decent with 2 of them.
Ayyy Lambda bros.


As for how I got to meet BlazBlue... Well, I was not the nicest about it.

Younger, more stupid me believed they were done with GG for real when BB was announced (didn't find out about the Sega buyout for a few years), and BlazBlue chars didn't catch me. Didn't watch a single Calamity Trigger match, but managed to catch a Continuum Shift one that featured Lambda and Hazama. I thought they were cool, but got turned off by Hazama's Houtenjin (didn't know **** back then, so I thought he was like Johnny, lol).

And then I got to hear Condemnation Wings (Tsubaki's theme) in a Brawl CMV. And that took me to Gluttony Fang. And that to Endless Despair. I didn't get to play neither game (still haven't to this day), but boy can you be sure I played the hell out of Chronophantasma. And when Lambda was announced to return, I. GOT. HYPE.
 
D

Deleted member

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#85
Never really been a fan of designs fro BB, they feel too "animay", I prefer the GG characters because of the Rock/Metal influences. Part of the reason I want Sol in Smash is because of the music, no joke.
 

KatKit

Smash Lord
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#87
For all intents and purposes, Guilty Gear is also hella anime looking. The difference between it and Blazblue is that the latter's aesthetic is predominately based off of more current trends, while the former is based off older ones. Although visually, Blazblue was super overthetop with cliches, so I understand how that can be offputting to some, but it also helped contribute to its success and giving it its own identity.
 

SNEKeater

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
153
#88
the trailers in Ultimate got a lot better in comparison to 4, but yeah, I miss the posters. I can only imagine what Kojima, Soejima and maybe Toriyama? would have pulled out for this game (I don't know who the main artists behind BK and FF are).
Kojima didn't design the characters in Metal Gear, Yoji Shinkawa did. Shinkawa is also the artist behind for the upcoming Death Stranding.

FFVII art was mainly done by Tetsuya Nomura. In fact he draw an illustration if I remember well for Smash 4 after Cloud's announcement. About Banjo & Kazooie I've no idea.
 
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#89
Kojima didn't design the characters in Metal Gear, Yoji Shinkawa did. Shinkawa is also the artist behind for the upcoming Death Stranding.

FFVII art was mainly done by Tetsuya Nomura. In fact he draw an illustration if I remember well for Smash 4 after Cloud's announcement. About Banjo & Kazooie I've no idea.
Eh, I should have clarified as this is an easy misunderstanding to make
This is the Kojima I mentioned known for her work on a big chunk of the Castlevania games between SotN until like Harmony of Despair.
With FF I meant Fatal Fury, because all those franchises were added in Ultimate thus they lack the iconic posters 4 had that often borrowed the artists associated with their respective newcomers.
For all intents and purposes, Guilty Gear is also hella anime looking. The difference between it and Blazblue is that the latter's aesthetic is predominately based off of more current trends, while the former is based off older ones. Although visually, Blazblue was super overthetop with cliches, so I understand how that can be offputting to some, but it also helped contribute to its success and giving it its own identity.
this more or less sums up what I was going to say, both series are super anime, just in different styles. Guilty Gear aims for something more akin to the 80s-90s and I'd say can be fairly comparable to the likes of Fist of the North Star or Jojo (to name a few, the latter even sharing the love for referencing music), while BB is a lot more modern with its trends. Oddly enough I hardly care for old school anime while I enjoy a fair share of post-2000 stuff despite my growing distaste for BB while I like GG more and more, but that's besides the point.
 
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SNEKeater

Smash Apprentice
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#90
Eh, I should have clarified as this is an easy misunderstanding to make
This is the Kojima I mentioned known for her work on a big chunk of the Castlevania games between SotN until like Harmony of Despair.
With FF I meant Fatal Fury, because all those franchises were added in Ultimate thus they lack the iconic posters 4 had that often borrowed the artists associated with their respective newcomers.

this more or less sums up what I was going to say, both series are super anime, just in different styles. Guilty Gear aims for something more akin to the 80s-90s and I'd say can be fairly comparable to the likes of Fist of the North Star or Jojo (to name a few, the latter even sharing the love for referencing music), while BB is a lot more modern with its trends. Oddly enough I hardly care for old school anime while I enjoy a fair share of post-2000 stuff despite my growing distaste for BB while I like GG more and more, but that's besides the point.
Ops. Sorry, my bad!
I don't know how I have misunderstood you, haha. I guess it's because you said FF, I always associate FF with Final Fantasy.
 

OldHickory

Smash Cadet
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#91
So, I kinda thought the point of the BB cast being cliches was to use that as a jumping off point for story telling and character development.
Like, Ragna starts off as your stock 90s antihero, but despite being Mr. Protagonist receives exactly no respect, with every attempt to leverage his antihero-ness blowing up in his face and furthering the antagonists' goals, with stuff only really working out for him when he stops being so edgy, gets over his more selfish motivations, and starts being a tad more personable.

Now, to compare/contrast how Sol and Ragna could work in Smash, here's a few possibilities;
General:
Similarities: They'd both more than likely be roughly the same size and have similar reach and movement speed.
Differences: The elephant in the room is Ragna's Drive, Soul Eater. An integral part of his gameplay if a life drain mechanic with low HP. As such, he'd likely be a good bit lighter than Sol in Smash.

Neutral Special?: Gun Flame/Dead Spike
Similarities: Short-ish range projectile. Neither Sol nor Ragna are meant to fight at long range. Leaves you out there on whiff.
Differences:
-Gun Flame: Have both a regular and a feinted version to bait reactions. Maybe act as a slow moving, multi hit projectile good for pressure.
-Dead Spike: Dash cancellable on hit/shield. Low/set knock back to capitalize on being dash cancellable. Possibly be a big disjoint rather than a projectile, similar to Hero's Zap, to make the cancel thing work a bit better in programming.

Up Special: Volcanic Viper/Inferno Divider
Similarities: Uppercut, possesses a followup.
Differences: Really short on major ways they could differ. They're both basically the same move. Only real difference is that Ragna has a variable followups to it. Only real thing I can think of is giving Ragna the option of both a horizontal and a semi-spike option, rather than just a semi-spike option.

Side Special?: Wild Throw/Hell's Fang
Similarities: None, these are completely different moves.
Wild Throw: Sol's command grab. A low-damage grab with more or less set knock back, used to set up combos after cracking someone's defense. If Bowser's Flying Slam is a Spinning Piledriver/Potemkin Buster, then this is Karakusa.
Hell's Fang: Lunging punch that's safe on shield and has an unsafe on block but rewarding followup for frame traps.

Down Special: Not sure
This is where I'm not sure what to do for specials, as both have options with numerous ways of how to implement them.
Very open to suggestions on this one.

There's also the question of whether or not the two should have traditional inputs.
And while a part of me says yes, a bigger part of me says no.
Like, that's specifically Ryu/Ken's shtick, and something about spreading it around feels weird to me, even if Terry is more than likely gonna have them too.
 
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SNEKeater

Smash Apprentice
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#92
Terry will have inputs, yes. If I remember right it was clear seeing the short footage of gameplay Sakurai showed
 
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#93
I imagine Sol is likelier to have something like a burst or roman cancel gimmick than command inputs, as that's what partly makes GG stand out from the rest of fighters.
I don't think this was meant by the Sol/Ragna discussion, but I really don't think we'd get a BB character over GG. Both more or less represent the same idea, I don't think one series has particularly sold better than the other in average to have that as a factor to consider? And GG just has a lot more history and overall influence in contrast to BB, which might not even exist if GG wasn't a thing. I don't know if Sol is sort of the mascot of Arc Sys like Terry is for SNK, but GG definitely feels like their pedigree franchise over anything else they might do.
 

OldHickory

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#94
I'd still call it a coin flip.
Let's say one of them is guaranteed to get in, in my mind it could go either way.

Like, let's say Sol represents classic and Ragna represents modern anime fighters.
Using our Persona representative as an example, Yu Narukami has certainly been around a whole lot longer than Joker, but look how that turned out.
Going further on pedigree and progenitor whatnot, that'd be SMT with someone like the Demi-Fiend, Flynn, or Aleph, and that sure didn't happen.

That said, we've still got Cross Tag as a relatively recent BB title and GG2020 as an upcoming GG title, making the matter even muddier.
Would Sol get the Roy/Corrin treatment and bring greater publicity to Guilty Gear?
Would Ragna...
get pulled into yet another conflict after his bittersweet ending
Who knows.

Either way, here's hoping for an ArcSys bruiser swordsman, whether they're using fire or darkness.
 
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AreJay25

May or May Not Be Pac-Man
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#95
Just dropping by to show some support for Sol. Guilty Gear is awesome and I think he'd be a great choice.

With Arc Sys gaining more and more recognition over the years, I'd say he's got a fair shot at making it.
 

SNEKeater

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Messages
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#96
I'd still call it a coin flip.
Let's say one of them is guaranteed to get in, in my mind it could go either way.

Like, let's say Sol represents classic and Ragna represents modern anime fighters.
Using our Persona representative as an example, Yu Narukami has certainly been around a whole lot longer than Joker, but look how that turned out.
Going further on pedigree and progenitor whatnot, that'd be SMT with someone like the Demi-Fiend, Flynn, or Aleph, and that sure didn't happen.

That said, we've still got Cross Tag as a relatively recent BB title and GG2020 as an upcoming GG title, making the matter even muddier.
Would Sol get the Roy/Corrin treatment and bring greater publicity to Guilty Gear?
Would Ragna...
get pulled into yet another conflict after his bittersweet ending
Who knows.

Either way, here's hoping for an ArcSys bruiser swordsman, whether they're using fire or darkness.
Well the right comparison would be Persona and Shin Megami Tensei, not Persona 5 and 4.
If Persona was picked and not SMT I guess it was because:
- Persona is more popular than SMT and this is a thing since at least Persona 3 release
- Sakurai loves Persona
- Atlus is pushing Persona more than SMT

Maybe this is only me but I feel Persona is a solid choice, even more than SMT. With the latest game the franchise it's in a good moment of popularity, but that doesn't mean the previous entries were mediocre. Persona 3 or 4 were some of the best JRPG of their generation, but the recognition arrived with P5, a recognition for P5 but also for all the previous games. The Persona series started in 1996 so it has history.
And again maybe it's just me but I don't feel there's a solid choice for Shin Megami Tensei if we talk about a rep. The closest is Jack Frost and while he's the mascot, he isn't the protagonist and Sakurai usually goes with main characters. Outside Jack Frost I don't find a solid choice. Persona had Joker of course, but if it wasn't him Minato/Yuki or Yu Narukami would probably enough entity to be chosen, and I don't feel the same for any SMT character. My opinion, of course.

Sol in Smash would be a great push for ArcSys and Guilty Gear. Honestly, any franchise added to Smash will receive a push in some form, even if we're talking about super legendary and well known series like Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid. There's always people who won't know some franchises even if it's hard to not have heard about Final Fantasy or Metal Gear, and even if they know there's always people who didn't play the games. A lot of times Smash pushes the curiosity and creates new fans for these IPs.
Smash pushed me to play Fire Emblem or Kid Icarus but also SNK games or MGS, for example. So Guilty Gear in Smash would attract a lot of new fans to GG like it's happening to Persona, DQ, Banjo & Kazooie or SNK fighting games.
 

KatKit

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Seconded on the Accent Core R. You'll get the full, classic GG experience and get to use characters who didn't make it to Rev 2.

And if you're ever in the mood for something that's equally solid and deep yet completely different, feel free to jump on Arcana Hearts 3: Love Max. Don't let the appearance of the roster fool you, it is legitimately one of the best 2D fighters I've ever played. 23 characters plus 23 Arcana you can mix and match gives 529 possible character combinations that alter how you dash/jump/what special moves you have/supers/etc. It's like the perfect DBZ meets Jojo game, except with little girls instead.
 
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Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
1,593
I'd still call it a coin flip.
Let's say one of them is guaranteed to get in, in my mind it could go either way.

Like, let's say Sol represents classic and Ragna represents modern anime fighters.
Using our Persona representative as an example, Yu Narukami has certainly been around a whole lot longer than Joker, but look how that turned out.
Going further on pedigree and progenitor whatnot, that'd be SMT with someone like the Demi-Fiend, Flynn, or Aleph, and that sure didn't happen.

That said, we've still got Cross Tag as a relatively recent BB title and GG2020 as an upcoming GG title, making the matter even muddier.
Would Sol get the Roy/Corrin treatment and bring greater publicity to Guilty Gear?
Would Ragna...
get pulled into yet another conflict after his bittersweet ending
Who knows.

Either way, here's hoping for an ArcSys bruiser swordsman, whether they're using fire or darkness.
the Persona comparison isn't very accurate as it's not a separate series like GG and BB are, even if we compared it to SMT, they're still pretty different in themes, structure and gameplay, and both Persona and SMT influenced the RPG genre in different ways. But even without that in mind, Joker over Yu wasn't crazy, P5 is Atlus best selling game by a long shot and influenced social media and whatnot so much more than P4 ever did. I'd also say Joker always had much better moveset potential being a phantom thief, which displays a lot more agility and abilities that'd translate well in Smash in contrast to Yu that really doesn't do anything that noteworthy in P4 to have that much to work around on a moveset.
For GG vs BB, you have 2 franchises that represent the over the top anime take on fighting games, both are more or less just as popular sales wise.
But wait, GG came out about a decade before BB did with a fair amount of games released throughout that period, giving it a much larger legacy and time for recognition, and it has a had a fairly succesful revival not long ago with a new main game on the way next year, and its engine even laid the groundworks to what'd become Arcsys best selling game by a mile, and the series is no strange to Nintendo either.
I'm probably coming out as a big BB hater with all my earlier comments, but I find the idea of BB getting before GG to be as ridiculous as say, getting a character from Darkstalkers or Power Stone before Street Fighter. It's just not as strongly associated with the company nor as historic I feel.
IMO, Ragnas only time to shine over Sol was during Sm4sh when GG was fairly inactive and BB was releasing game after game in the meantime.
 
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SNEKeater

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Thank you for the answers. I think I'll get Accent Core eventually, I saw some photos and videos and the game looks really good (in terms of visuals I mean haha). Now I'm playing episode mode and doing random and ranked matches in Rev 2. I'm not great but I'm having fun!
 
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