mixa
Banned via Warnings
to me 64 is on hold until zenith videos come up, pretty much
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Social Social Thread - Talk About Anything (You Are Allowed to Talk About)!
- Thread starter craiigg
- Start date
Komotonoto
Smash Journeyman
Ya'll nikkas need to quit flappin your lips and play more smash. Fri99in noobs.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
this is a funny statement
Sangoku
Smash Master
"Don't take the argument out of proportion" goes for everyone. Now I think we are done with this silly argument and we can move on. Thank you.
THE_MAAFIA
Smash Ace
Lots of crazy drama I missed, but any way, I'm really enjoying the online ranking system
Ps. Fun games @SheerMadness
Ps. Fun games @SheerMadness
Froski
Boss of Bosses
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2010
- Messages
- 381
"aww ****"
Anyways
I remember when sangoku got pissed off at me when i posted what he said about this emmi person on the forums. He said "**** you" to me from that day forward. Some people get into their feelings a tad bit much, but water under the bridge.
Anyways
I remember when sangoku got pissed off at me when i posted what he said about this emmi person on the forums. He said "**** you" to me from that day forward. Some people get into their feelings a tad bit much, but water under the bridge.
Last edited by a moderator:
mixa
Banned via Warnings
surely is not water under any bridge since you came out of the woodwork to say that
Sedda
Smash Champion
jeez I was actually going to buy it until I saw the price tag. phew
Herbert Von Karajan
Smash Lord
SuPeRbOoM
Smash Master
**** I want it
Combo Blaze
Smash Ace
Herbert Von Karajan
Smash Lord
yeah i used google translate before and none of the meaning of the posts come across at all. All i can tell is they are talking about "wait"
Ah Camping! Items fixes that. Is there a chance of getting a response other than "because" to why Hyrule is banned? Or why items are banned for that matter? Hyrule, 7 stocks, No Hammer/Star/Poke/Ray/Fire. That is the true form of the game, it eliminates "camping and gimping" one of which doesn`t even apply to this game.
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
Items does not eliminate camping as camping/running/defense is still the best strategy on hyrule even with items. Defensive play is the best strategy on every stage, but this is not the reason hyrule is banned. Hyrule is banned because both players using defensive play can make the game take ridiculous amounts of time and some matches could theoretically go on forever due to both players refusing to approach each other since hyrule can create that scenario quite easily. No reason to make it even longer with 7 stocks for that matter.
Items are banned because they are random and can give a player a great advantage for no reason.
Last edited:
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
by now, if you don't understand why items are banned, why hyrule is banned, and why the game is played with 5/4 stocks after it has been explained ad nauseum, i don't think you ever will
please do not mention the words "true form" of the game, because anything you can alter takes away from "true form." there is absolutely no reason 7 stocks should be true form while 1 stock isn't, nor why 5 minute timed matches shouldn't be the default/"real game" options. you can also put on handicap, team attack, etc etc. there are a lot of options, and thus, no true form.
please do not mention the words "true form" of the game, because anything you can alter takes away from "true form." there is absolutely no reason 7 stocks should be true form while 1 stock isn't, nor why 5 minute timed matches shouldn't be the default/"real game" options. you can also put on handicap, team attack, etc etc. there are a lot of options, and thus, no true form.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
the guy made brawl
Shears
Smash Master
Below are MY opinions on the "true" way to play. None of my opinions are influenced by SB, Sakurai, any of the people here or the tournaments I've been to. It is based off my empirical observation of playing the game and my feelings of the game. Most of this is the way I have played since I was a kid before I ever knew what smashboards was or that tournaments existed. For more detail on each of these you can PM me about it, my entire meta is developed on my own findings not from what I read on smashboards or watched in a youtube video, I play how I played as a kid I'm just a little more precise and fine tuned than I used to be. I've still never watched an isai stream, and if you talk to some of the people I've played in person quite a bit, Tom Jones, Breakthrough, Bloodpeach, Clubba, they will tell you I'm not a very technical player and don't do things that are the "SB" or "Right" way to do them. With that as my credentials, Studstill, here are my opinions:
I like 4/5 stocks because its what I feel shortens the game to a point that doesn't jeopardize the outcome. With less than 4 stocks you changed the dynamic to a who gets the first hit or doesn't make the first mistake. Its too short and at least 4 stocks is needed to determine the truly better player that match, and allow someone to overcome a silly mistake or a single combo. Its why football isn't played with a single quarter, soccer with a single half, hockey with a single period, or baseball with a single inning. So why not 7 stocks? Well 7 stocks would prove who the truly better player is, just like 6 stocks will, 5 stocks will, and 4 stocks will. The difference between all these different stock counts is time. The more stocks, the more time it takes and I don't feel the increase in time is really going to make a significant difference in outcome from my observations. The guy that wins 5 stock matches 90% of the time will win 6+ stock matches 90% and therefore you are just extending an inevitable outcome. If 100 matches were played at 5 stock and 100 matches at 7 stock, I'll bet that the amount won by P1 (assuming they are playing each game with the intensity, focus, and effort of the others) will be nearly the same meaning you are just wasting time. I'll bet that because of the volatility of mistakes and combos, that in a 3 or less stock game played 100 times vs 100 5-stock games, the amount won by P1 (again assuming effort is constant) will not be nearly the same. This can be used to show the inaccuracy of 3 or less stock games and the accuracy of 4 or more stock games. So if 4 or more stock is needed why use 7 when you can do the job in 4/5? Why not play 30 stock matches for tournaments? Because time really is a pressing matter in all smash games, especially online where there is a DS issue directly caused by time. As a kid I always played 5 stock.
I think DL is the most neutral, there is no hazard that can cause significant disruption to a combo or stock, the wind ****s things up, but it doesn't interfere like a bumper, or tornado, or lava (Only DL, Yoshis, and Congo). DL is flat. The stage is flat, the platforms are flat (Only DL). DL is nearly symmetrical, there is no change in playstyle depending on where on the stage you are, the metagame is universal across it (Only DL, Congo, and Peachs). The boundaries on the stage are nearly even space from the stage itself on all edges meaning kill distances and combos from any side can be successful, the stage is balanced (See Saffron, Yoshis, and Zebes are violators). The stage doesn't ruin any character (Peachs disadvantages ledge recovery chars, Saffron kills ness). If we're being objective here and finding the true way to make it player vs player and not player vs player vs stage, then it has to be DL. I'm a supporter of all stages being fair and playable. I think CPs should allow for any stage, but if we're looking for one stage to settle disputes and close the book, its DL. As a kid I always played random, but if it was to settle a dispute, we went to DL.
I will never in a million years concede items to a game ever. They do not test skill or a players ability in the game. Even assuming the items you suggested are set to none, a tomato falls in front of you, well now you just got a free stock back if you were at high percent damage. A character like DK or Jiggly who purposely doesn't have a projectile now has a projectile, unbalancing the game. A character like mario who has a weak projectile with low knockback and can't kill, now has a projectile with the knockback of samus charge shot and can kill anywhere on the stage. The game no longer becomes player vs player, it becomes player vs player vs items. As a kid I always played no items and there is no good argument for them. Stages, stocks, playing behind your back with one eye closed upside down arguments I'll listen to, items I will not. If you don't understand the items argument then idk what to tell you. I don't care if Sakurais bible says to play with items, Sakurai is playing the game for fun not for competition (winning is fun). I don't play sports because I think wiggling my body on a field is fun, I play sports because I want to humiliate my competition and win because power and success is fun. I didn't run in circles because it was fun to be part of a track team and endorphins feel good (I hate endorphins. leisure, laziness and hedonism feels good), I ran in circles because I won and because I was better than everyone and that was a way to prove it. Smash is a way to prove it too. Its not about swinging fairy sticks and double jumping and pretending you're your favorite nintendo character, its about ****ing someones **** up and winning and proving you are better than them in every way. Its about making their parents be ashamed of their existence because their ***** son was too much of a ***** to win a game of super smash bros.
This is the true way to play. This is the way I play.
I like 4/5 stocks because its what I feel shortens the game to a point that doesn't jeopardize the outcome. With less than 4 stocks you changed the dynamic to a who gets the first hit or doesn't make the first mistake. Its too short and at least 4 stocks is needed to determine the truly better player that match, and allow someone to overcome a silly mistake or a single combo. Its why football isn't played with a single quarter, soccer with a single half, hockey with a single period, or baseball with a single inning. So why not 7 stocks? Well 7 stocks would prove who the truly better player is, just like 6 stocks will, 5 stocks will, and 4 stocks will. The difference between all these different stock counts is time. The more stocks, the more time it takes and I don't feel the increase in time is really going to make a significant difference in outcome from my observations. The guy that wins 5 stock matches 90% of the time will win 6+ stock matches 90% and therefore you are just extending an inevitable outcome. If 100 matches were played at 5 stock and 100 matches at 7 stock, I'll bet that the amount won by P1 (assuming they are playing each game with the intensity, focus, and effort of the others) will be nearly the same meaning you are just wasting time. I'll bet that because of the volatility of mistakes and combos, that in a 3 or less stock game played 100 times vs 100 5-stock games, the amount won by P1 (again assuming effort is constant) will not be nearly the same. This can be used to show the inaccuracy of 3 or less stock games and the accuracy of 4 or more stock games. So if 4 or more stock is needed why use 7 when you can do the job in 4/5? Why not play 30 stock matches for tournaments? Because time really is a pressing matter in all smash games, especially online where there is a DS issue directly caused by time. As a kid I always played 5 stock.
I think DL is the most neutral, there is no hazard that can cause significant disruption to a combo or stock, the wind ****s things up, but it doesn't interfere like a bumper, or tornado, or lava (Only DL, Yoshis, and Congo). DL is flat. The stage is flat, the platforms are flat (Only DL). DL is nearly symmetrical, there is no change in playstyle depending on where on the stage you are, the metagame is universal across it (Only DL, Congo, and Peachs). The boundaries on the stage are nearly even space from the stage itself on all edges meaning kill distances and combos from any side can be successful, the stage is balanced (See Saffron, Yoshis, and Zebes are violators). The stage doesn't ruin any character (Peachs disadvantages ledge recovery chars, Saffron kills ness). If we're being objective here and finding the true way to make it player vs player and not player vs player vs stage, then it has to be DL. I'm a supporter of all stages being fair and playable. I think CPs should allow for any stage, but if we're looking for one stage to settle disputes and close the book, its DL. As a kid I always played random, but if it was to settle a dispute, we went to DL.
I will never in a million years concede items to a game ever. They do not test skill or a players ability in the game. Even assuming the items you suggested are set to none, a tomato falls in front of you, well now you just got a free stock back if you were at high percent damage. A character like DK or Jiggly who purposely doesn't have a projectile now has a projectile, unbalancing the game. A character like mario who has a weak projectile with low knockback and can't kill, now has a projectile with the knockback of samus charge shot and can kill anywhere on the stage. The game no longer becomes player vs player, it becomes player vs player vs items. As a kid I always played no items and there is no good argument for them. Stages, stocks, playing behind your back with one eye closed upside down arguments I'll listen to, items I will not. If you don't understand the items argument then idk what to tell you. I don't care if Sakurais bible says to play with items, Sakurai is playing the game for fun not for competition (winning is fun). I don't play sports because I think wiggling my body on a field is fun, I play sports because I want to humiliate my competition and win because power and success is fun. I didn't run in circles because it was fun to be part of a track team and endorphins feel good (I hate endorphins. leisure, laziness and hedonism feels good), I ran in circles because I won and because I was better than everyone and that was a way to prove it. Smash is a way to prove it too. Its not about swinging fairy sticks and double jumping and pretending you're your favorite nintendo character, its about ****ing someones **** up and winning and proving you are better than them in every way. Its about making their parents be ashamed of their existence because their ***** son was too much of a ***** to win a game of super smash bros.
This is the true way to play. This is the way I play.
I`m working on translating Sakurai`s actual words on the game from `99. He appears to agree with me from the extremely rough google translation, so who knows currently.Let's ask Sakurai-sama about what he thinks of this
I say "true form" because that`s what it is. 64 is magical. Maybe it`s age, or experience with games that`s informing my opinion, but 64 has an incredibly balanced gameplay that the current ruleset BREAKS. Items are "random" sure, but this is irrelevant. All I hear is:
"I can`t play Smash 64 the way I want, which is to have a flat platform, with no hazards, no items, and my opponent isn`t allowed to run away, he has to come at me!"
Ridiculous, and game-breaking. Combine this with the subtle* effects of game delay, and you have the current situation of 4 Stock DL being the default. There is no clear evidence that this is good for improvement of skill, competition, or the best way to play the game.
It is fine, in the context of what I`ll call the purity argument. But that`s what it is, an argument. That I don`t believe is settled.
This obsession with speed has no place in Smash. (Note: According to data, a match on Hyrule takes a little over a minute longer than a DL match) The quickest kill/match is not necessarily an indication of the best form of play. I value movement and placement, merely doing the moves "teching" is a ridiculous thing to place value on. I understand that it makes videos or gameplay more "exciting" to the masses, but I could care less about eyeballs on vids. Congratulations, to those who can do the moves incredibly quickly, or reliably, but that is a FUNDAMENTAL requirement of any game. This is only boring because you have removed the largest and most fair stage in the game: (incredulously) because you can`t catch some players? Insanity.
The current ruleset has indeed broken the game and this is the fallout: stagnation of play, with many highly skilled players only playing teams in order to have the additional layers of complexity, goals other than simply attacking your opponent. In 1v1, items are necessary for that additional layer of purpose. They prevent camping by eliminating the STATIC STAGE, which is again what seems to be an obsession to obtain.
Again, I think this game is fairly unique. The closest comparison is Bushido Blade (2), not Melee. If you want to play Smash 64 on a windless dreamland only, with no items, than THAT IS COOL. But stop pretending like it is the actual game, or true form of Smash combat.
mixa
Banned via Warnings
there's always that unsourced quote about sakurai winning street fighter 2 tounies
Shears
Smash Master
Stocks, I'll play anything over 4. I don't want to be locked into a single match for too long, so also under 10. I think anything within those boundaries keeps the games outcome accurate and the match fresh without getting stale or tiresome.
Stages, I'll play anything for friendlies, and anything for counterpicks in a set, I'm also open to having anything be a starting stage as long as the players go through a striking process to determine the first stage. In a bo1 winner take all it needs to be DL though, or use the same striking method as mentioned earlier. I'm also really against DL only rulesets for bo3 or bo5 (you can play DL for all of them, but shouldn't be limited to).
Items, no.
Stages, I'll play anything for friendlies, and anything for counterpicks in a set, I'm also open to having anything be a starting stage as long as the players go through a striking process to determine the first stage. In a bo1 winner take all it needs to be DL though, or use the same striking method as mentioned earlier. I'm also really against DL only rulesets for bo3 or bo5 (you can play DL for all of them, but shouldn't be limited to).
Items, no.
Last edited:
Competition is not the opposite of fun.
The only things I would remove from the game, for "competition", if anything, share a common thread: Does it take skill?
Stars/Hammers: These take 0 skill to use. And are difficult to defend against even with skill.
Pokeball: While I love this as a throwable, after thrown the effects are highly powerful, plus the inside randomness breaks item fairness. Also, merely dropping this on the ground can have a powerful effect, causing damage with no skill required.
That`s it. Every other item requires skill to use. Period. If you can`t beat people worse than you because they got a million hearts or swords or whatever, then you aren`t better than them. If you need to have no wind, or tornadoes, or only play on the smallest stage so they can`t space or get away properly, sorry again, get better at the game.
The only things I would remove from the game, for "competition", if anything, share a common thread: Does it take skill?
Stars/Hammers: These take 0 skill to use. And are difficult to defend against even with skill.
Pokeball: While I love this as a throwable, after thrown the effects are highly powerful, plus the inside randomness breaks item fairness. Also, merely dropping this on the ground can have a powerful effect, causing damage with no skill required.
That`s it. Every other item requires skill to use. Period. If you can`t beat people worse than you because they got a million hearts or swords or whatever, then you aren`t better than them. If you need to have no wind, or tornadoes, or only play on the smallest stage so they can`t space or get away properly, sorry again, get better at the game.
Shears
Smash Master
You're at 90% damage, I'm at 0. You get one fsmash on me that sends me away and now I'm at like 16%. At this time a heart falls into your lap and you muster all the skill you have to tap the A button once and you go back to 0. This happens 5 times. You basically had 10 stocks, I had 5 stocks. I'm not as good as you because I lost the match when stocks were 10-5? How is that fair? How are hearts and tomatoes skillful? Being better doesn't mean you are infinitely better always. Better means better, it means you can take more of their stock before they take more of yours. 1 stock is better, 99 stock is better, but being 1 stock better doesn't mean you can also be 99 stock better. Extrapolation of the logic you used with healing items, if someone beats you 5 stock to 5 stock and is truly better than they should also be able to beat you 1 stock to 99 stock and if they can't then they are not better, therefore, healing items don't make a difference so add healing items.
I only use 99 as an example because its as high as the game lets you go. A million hearts is as good as a million stocks so really the extrapolation should be a 1,000,000-1 in stock differential.
Last edited:
And this is exactly why forums are ****ing ********. Oh besides the fact that there`s some asterisks in there. Because best case scenario: You`re joking. In the middle of what is clearly a serious discussion. Don`t you pretend like your voice carries weight? Way to use that responsibility.
Worst case: You have zero insight on gameplay or rulesets, just another NE tournament ***** who thinks the way we`ve been doing it since Melee corrupted 64 is the best, because......I can`t beat some people, they "camp."
Shears, I`m trying to be serious here.
"You're at 90% damage, I'm at 0. You get one fsmash on me that sends me away and now I'm at like 16%. At this time a heart falls into your lap and you muster all the skill you have to tap the A button once and you go back to 0. This happens 5 times"
Really? Can we not get into extremely unlikely hypotheticals? The person on the stage has the best access to items. The person off the stage is...why are they there? Oh right, because I put them there with skill, earning my access to the items. Or perhaps I killed them, then enjoy the respawn time to find items if any. This on "middle" and items RARELY ever fall "right in front of you."
But to answer this unlikely hypothetical:
"I got an Fsmash off after doing 90% while taking 16%. Then I get a heart while your respawning, or returning, removing 16% damage."
I don`t see how that is "unfair."
Last edited by a moderator:
Shears
Smash Master
I am being serious. Healing items are not skillful and do not reflect the true winner if they are in play. Stars, hammers, pokeballs, and now healing items. I'm going to one by one prove to you why items are not acceptable.
One hit off stage doesn't mean you are more skillful. It means you were luckily opportunistic. In the example, I am clearly beating you, therefore more skillful. The better person doesn't go untouched, so there will always be a moment where the person who is worse gets a hit and can do whatever is most favorable to them. If a heart lands at this moment, the worse player now gets a heart. If you are better and you can win with healing items, then why can't you win without healing items? Healing items do not reflect skill. They reflect luck.
Example, a roommate of mine in college would only play me in smash if we did samus dittos with all items on very high. Reason, in samus dittos without items I whooped him, but with items, every now and again he would get a few hearts and that would basically give him a few stocks back and then when I have to do 1000% damage in a 5-stock game to beat him and he has to do 500% damage in a 5-stock game to beat me, he wins. How is that fair? I have to be twice as good to beat him but I'm not as good because I didn't beat him. The hearts are a handicap, in no way is a handicap helpful or reflects skills of both players.
One hit off stage doesn't mean you are more skillful. It means you were luckily opportunistic. In the example, I am clearly beating you, therefore more skillful. The better person doesn't go untouched, so there will always be a moment where the person who is worse gets a hit and can do whatever is most favorable to them. If a heart lands at this moment, the worse player now gets a heart. If you are better and you can win with healing items, then why can't you win without healing items? Healing items do not reflect skill. They reflect luck.
Example, a roommate of mine in college would only play me in smash if we did samus dittos with all items on very high. Reason, in samus dittos without items I whooped him, but with items, every now and again he would get a few hearts and that would basically give him a few stocks back and then when I have to do 1000% damage in a 5-stock game to beat him and he has to do 500% damage in a 5-stock game to beat me, he wins. How is that fair? I have to be twice as good to beat him but I'm not as good because I didn't beat him. The hearts are a handicap, in no way is a handicap helpful or reflects skills of both players.
Last edited:
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
randomness is bad for competition. why do you think tripping is hated in brawl? imagine if 64 had tripping. or if an item spawns off screen and you're already in hitstun and you hit the item (ie, bob omb), thus dying at a much lower percentage. there is a huge HUGE difference between dying by randomness at 40% and dying by a gimp at 40%. one takes effort from the other player; the other is independent of the other player.
japan
no
http://smashboards.com/threads/a-case-against-hyrule.340054/ read it again, all of the responses from everyone
here's one of my issues with hyrule: more often than not, the most optimal way of taking a stock is using the tornado. and as i've said before: i'd rather fight the player, not the stage. i think it's absurd that light characters live to 130 or more, and that the most ideal way to play on hyrule is to stay in one area, instead of utilizing the whole stage.
merely an opinion that is apparently not shared by many people.
it doesn't take skill to use a heart or tomato. you press A on it, and suddenly, they have a fresh stock.
place a bumper on the edge of the map, most characters can't recover. no skill required.
place a mine on the side of the stage where characters recover. no skill required to get the kill.
ray gun? i was linking together all ten shots after ten minutes of using the item. there's no skill required to z2d people across the stage with the shots.
homerun bat? using a character who combos into itself with certain moves? try kirby utilt x5 -> homerun bat. stock. every single time. pika utilt is the same deal.
bob ombs can spawn and walk and take stocks at their own leisure, with no skill or touch by any player.
you really have no space to tell people to get better at the game. heed your own advice first, then try to give it to others.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/discuss...-not-want-smash-to-be-a-competitive-franchise
http://www.gengame.net/2013/03/saku...-smash-bros-battles-arent-interesting-or-fun/
widely-known knowledge that sakurai wasn't exactly pleased with how everything turned out competitive wise...
what if you didn't put them there with your skill? what if they hit a bob omb, or a tornado took them into the air? don't think that an opponent lands off stage because of you. that is not always the case. hell, they could have run into their own mine.
this is a really stupid argument that i feel has been made at least six dozen times before i even started playing the game. shocking though it may be, you are not the first person to think items, hyrule and 7 stocks are the proper way of playing (i lived with guys who lived by that exact style). have you never considered the fact that people have talked about it and reached a general consensus?
there's no point in continuing the discussion with you.
Last edited:
"Healing items aren`t skillful", misses the point. No, hitting A doesn`t require any skill, but you`re forgetting both players getting to it, which is not a race always, and the fact that it forces you to kill your damaged opponent, not simply evade and add damage with not time restraints. You`re altering the entire gameplay, dude. This is why the "camping" problem exists.
Why the ****, man what is your malfunction? Stop bringing up Brawl. It came out years after 64 and has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS CONVO. Randomness has nothing to do with competition is just more unqualified gibberish. Maybe for a sprint, or a javelin throwing comp, but this is Smash. Like cross-country, maybe, ability to deal with things you don`t expect (like items, or opponent moves) is the TRUE FORM of the game. It is not a single player game. Goddamn. But I`ll read it in the interest of...
": more often than not, the most optimal way of taking a stock is using the tornado. "
....nope nevermind. Gibberish, just gibberish.
And "hell, they could have run into their own mine." proves my point. Takes skill to not run into items, but oh no that`s too much. Again, no merit in your argument, just snark and links to other snark and links.
Why the ****, man what is your malfunction? Stop bringing up Brawl. It came out years after 64 and has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS CONVO. Randomness has nothing to do with competition is just more unqualified gibberish. Maybe for a sprint, or a javelin throwing comp, but this is Smash. Like cross-country, maybe, ability to deal with things you don`t expect (like items, or opponent moves) is the TRUE FORM of the game. It is not a single player game. Goddamn. But I`ll read it in the interest of...
": more often than not, the most optimal way of taking a stock is using the tornado. "
....nope nevermind. Gibberish, just gibberish.
And "hell, they could have run into their own mine." proves my point. Takes skill to not run into items, but oh no that`s too much. Again, no merit in your argument, just snark and links to other snark and links.
Last edited by a moderator:
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Shears
Smash Master
Read the example in my edited post. I don't see how you can agree with that. The argument that I'm better because I had you off stage when a heart fell is bull****. My current roommate won't play me in smash but he has a few times. He plays yoshi and I used to 5 stock him. The occasional times I 4 stocked he talked so much **** about how he took a stock off me and if he was successfully able to do what he did for that one stock he could beat me he just doesn't care to win and therefore thinks he proved that he is better than me. That is the same as your argument for being better because you got the heart. You're not paying attention to the whole match and the body of work and how a person is constantly doing better, you are paying attention to a small moment in time where you got the one hit to get the one item. My roommate doesn't pay attention to the 5 stocks I took from him, he pays attention to the 1 stock he took from me.
I don't get how you can truly agree with healing items. If I beat you without healing items am I better? Yes. If I beat you with healing items am I better? Yes. Whats the point of healing items then. If you played 100 matches with healing items only and 100 matches without items. The better player is going to win the majority regardless. So whats the point of them? The reason for their ban is in a bo3, statistics don't always get to play out. So someone could get 10 hearts while the other person gets 0 just because it was untimely and unlucky. If they could play 100 matches the best one would win, but that isn't always the case and now thanks to healing items you handed the win to some ungrateful, lucky, not as good player.
In response to your addendum. Its unfair becuase hitstun from the fsmash is greater than ending lag from the fsmash. You didnt do the fsmash to get the tomato. You did the fsmash, then the tomato fell. In the frames I'm in stun you can now get it. The advantage given to you randomly by the game, not because you were more skillful. The tomato could have fallen anytime in my 90% barrage but it didn't it fell luckily in your one attack and now you have an unfair advantage. This isn't farfetched. It happens all the time. Over 100 matches it evens out. In a bo3, it doesn't.
Items are you gambling on getting lucky for just one or two matches. No items means you have to straight up and down outplay your opponent.
I don't get how you can truly agree with healing items. If I beat you without healing items am I better? Yes. If I beat you with healing items am I better? Yes. Whats the point of healing items then. If you played 100 matches with healing items only and 100 matches without items. The better player is going to win the majority regardless. So whats the point of them? The reason for their ban is in a bo3, statistics don't always get to play out. So someone could get 10 hearts while the other person gets 0 just because it was untimely and unlucky. If they could play 100 matches the best one would win, but that isn't always the case and now thanks to healing items you handed the win to some ungrateful, lucky, not as good player.
In response to your addendum. Its unfair becuase hitstun from the fsmash is greater than ending lag from the fsmash. You didnt do the fsmash to get the tomato. You did the fsmash, then the tomato fell. In the frames I'm in stun you can now get it. The advantage given to you randomly by the game, not because you were more skillful. The tomato could have fallen anytime in my 90% barrage but it didn't it fell luckily in your one attack and now you have an unfair advantage. This isn't farfetched. It happens all the time. Over 100 matches it evens out. In a bo3, it doesn't.
Items are you gambling on getting lucky for just one or two matches. No items means you have to straight up and down outplay your opponent.
Last edited:
Froski
Boss of Bosses
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2010
- Messages
- 381
Yeah it is, just something i remembered at that exact moment. Happened over a year ago anyways.
Shears
Smash Master
I'm not arguing bombs, or star rods, or bats, or guns, or anything. I'm just arguing healing items for now. So now, with healing items, tell me I'm wrong.
mixa
Banned via Warnings
quotes collapse now... what a shameThere's a pretty intense debate going on here..
It would be a shame if a HERD OF DEER WERE TO APPEAR.
Sangoku
Smash Master
Too bad it's the social thread and I can't lock it.
mixa
Banned via Warnings
where's clubba, i'm just getting into basketball
Last edited:
Shears
Smash Master
I thought I remember the social thread being locked once...
Sangoku
Smash Master
I mean I have the power to, but I wouldn't have a legitimate reason to. I would have preferred that you guys derailed another thread with this so I could have locked it.
Herbert Von Karajan
Smash Lord
dude you still suck at the game even with that ruleset
everyone you played with that ruleset when you came to play us at that tournament probably had not played with items in YEARS. Yet they still dominated you with that ruleset.
People who get good at your ruleset will still suck in the japanese ruleset.
haven't you ever wondered why you suck
???
First: **** you. Is this what passes for a legitimate reply? LOL. I took two years off the game, and didn`t play for about three before that. Then played for about 5 hours and drove up there. You try it, and see what happens to your game. Playing everyday again has been great, but you, Cobr, bloodpeach, et al (all mediocre players I might add) discouraging "I beat you so I know what I`m talking about and you have no idea because you lost" attitude is frustrating and not true. I`ve never heard anyone in any environment use that logic. Which is weird because you have all been to college, thought some critical thinking would have been learned, or maybe you guys are just lazy and don`t give a **** about being right?
Secondly, what little logic you do use is still flawed:
Playing w/items is superior to playing without. So anyone used to items would have no problem playing wihtout them, in the Japan setting, which I might add is again, a different game.
What is happening here is the people who don`t play no items or only Dreamland and aren`t improving at the game (above mentioned group, et al) don`t want to change because they have figured out how to "win games" or even "tournaments" with these rules and this other counterpick bull**** that has nothing to do with the gameplay.
Items level the playing field. Not a handicap, but an addition to the gameplay that enables lesser players to bridge the skill gap, IF AND ONLY IF, the other opponent allows them. Specifically, it`s no different than everyone having a samus half shot, when holding items. Makes all chars stronger, makes the gameplay more balanced, and increases skill requirements on all levels.
I`ll make it simpler in order to get an actual answer:
1:Why is it that a bat or sword or fan or shell is unfair?
2:What makes me gaining the ability to throw something or hit you with something that isn`t in my character`s basic moveset less competitive, rather than more?
3: Why is Hyrule banned? (Answers involving playstyle are not valid, nor are time constraints, this is a pure question)
Last edited:
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
you have never played against anyone skillful
you have no basis to determine who is good and who isn't
15 years of casual play does not make you an authority in the competitive community
these are facts
you have no basis to determine who is good and who isn't
15 years of casual play does not make you an authority in the competitive community
these are facts