Social Social Thread - Talk About Anything (You Are Allowed to Talk About)!

[Cobrevolution]

broken link

sidenote: mgs ground zeroes is pretty incredible, and when phantom pain comes out, i might ascend to a higher plane of being

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

you might find this interesting
"[...] The common wisdom at the time was that highly skilled chess players thought further ahead in the game than did less skilled players."

As someone around the expert level of chess, this is probably the most important aspect of the game along with tactics.

A beginner can have problems regardless of how good a situation he is in as he can't tell what the opponent does next. They tend to play too fast or way too slow.

An early intermediate player will have a lot of problems in positions where he is barely ahead (as he like a beginner cannot exactly tell what the best combination is.) They tend to play too slow as they realize they can make errors but they are not exactly sure how.

It goes up exponentially from there.

Advanced players can generally win only a pawn (or another minor piece) up. This means they can calculate several moves ahead.

There are grandmasters who can calculate 30-40 moves ahead depending on position. I can personally do the same if I am up a good amount.

 

[mixa]

fixed it COBR

 

[KnitePhox]

Make tortilla chips, mint? You bake some on a cookie sheet with lime juice then when they done salt them. Or you could pan fry I suppose but I've never done that before so idk. Quesadillas as well, get some queso Chihuahua, its top #1 quesadilla cheese imo, then if you want put sliced tomatoes or deli ham or some cooked meat or even avocado. Thank You.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Sangoku gave me my 250th like...oh
http://smashboards.com/threads/soci...d-to-talk-about.216422/page-623#post-15953571 my most liked post

 

[The Star King]

ran into someone on Pokemon Showdown random battles yesterday

I probably should've saved the replay.

but it was something like

benitopito: do you play any other games?
Star King: um, yeah...?
benitopito: like are you really good at a different game?
Star King: are you getting at Smash?
benitopito: you play n64 right
Star King: do I know you?
benitopito: probably not, but I'm b-rex
Star King: oh I know you. from Arizona right?
benitopito: yeah

we played on kaillera afterwards. damn I was kind of rusty with online, 3 frames felt pre bad. but playing on Hyrule for the first time in a long time was refreshing. I'm not sure he knows about the Hyrule ban lol. he asked me if there were any big tourneys lately and I said Apex 2014 and he was like "oh, I went to 13", but it seems like he didn't know 2014 happened lol

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

small world eh

 

[M!nt]

wow what are the odds

 

[B Link]

As someone around the expert level of chess, this is probably the most important aspect of the game along with tactics.

There are grandmasters who can calculate 30-40 moves ahead depending on position. I can personally do the same if I am up a good amount.

Yo, this is hella impressive. I was thinking of getting into chess but the last time I played a serious game was in elementary school lol

 

[Chaostatic]

Not that anyone cares or has even noticed, but I ask so many questions on this forum and have been helped out so many times and in return I have not contributed to these boards in any positive way whatsoever.

So I just want to post like a general apology for my one sided posts lol.

I'd help out more if I was as knowledgable about the game as some of you, but until then, I'm still learning, so sorry! ^_^

 

[The Star King]

Learning is good. I don't think anybody minds a new person trying to learn.

 

[Sangoku]

Yep on the contrary, we like answering questions and helping. And at least your posts aren't harmful, unlike some other spammers'.

I've always been interested in chess, but I never passed the beginner level. I've been stuck at a phase where I don't know what to do after the opening.

 

[M!nt]

Make tortilla chips, mint? You bake some on a cookie sheet with lime juice then when they done salt them. Or you could pan fry I suppose but I've never done that before so idk. Quesadillas as well, get some queso Chihuahua, its top #1 quesadilla cheese imo, then if you want put sliced tomatoes or deli ham or some cooked meat or even avocado. Thank You.

Making tortilla chips sounds like a good idea. I mean... I wish I knew how they make the cheese dip that the mexican restaurants have around here. It's sooo good.

 

[NovaSmash]

I've met people on combat arms (fps game) and I tell them I play ssb64 online and they're like, "oh cool, i play ssb64 with my roommates all the time" or, "I used to be a beast at that game". When I tell them they should try ssb64 online, they tell me that they don't take smash seriously and just want to play with their friends on console. Oh well, at least I tried.

 

[Shears]

Not that anyone cares or has even noticed, but I ask so many questions on this forum and have been helped out so many times and in return I have not contributed to these boards in any positive way whatsoever.

So I just want to post like a general apology for my one sided posts lol.

I'd help out more if I was as knowledgable about the game as some of you, but until then, I'm still learning, so sorry! ^_^

Your contribution is your improvement. There are plenty of people who post/read but don't provide anything that significantly helps the progression of the game so don't feel bad. There are a small few who know the game inside out and are constant contributors, you are not expected to be one of them with only having 73 posts. Your improvement and frequent presence helps the scene because it can introduce another competitive player (which is always good) and another step for people to learn and build off. You can encourage newcomers by showing the improvements you made in the time you made them so when they get stomped by you they know it wasn't long ago you were getting stomped by others. Its hard to contribute to a game that has been developed for 15 years while you've only been around for the last couple months of it. Just be an advocate of timers and you have my support.

Anyway, after a week of not reading the boards I have learned my lesson to never go that long again, there were so many threads, bans, locks, posts, and rants to go through I'm exhausted.

I wanted to leave a shoutout to @clubbadubba for telling me to bet on UVA. I listened and bet on UVA not covering their spread and the game total being under because they suck and can't score against a 16-seed (Go Hokies!!), parlayed those two with the Florida total going over 121 (it went 122) and won $150.

 

[asianaussie]

aoe didn't have autoqueue. i ****ing hated autoqueue. autoqueue is like brawl having no z canceling.

hahaha

kero get off cobr's account he's not this **** of a poster

 

[Cobrevolution]

let me tell you something about queue

when aoe came out, you had to learn how long it took for your upgrades to finish and how many units you could build in a certain period of time. you learned that +1 range > +1 attack and that the former took much shorter than the latter. you learned that horse archers took 42 seconds to be created, and that you should pump through all of your archery ranges every 40 seconds, for a certain amount of time. you devised schemes; ie, you pumped all of your available ranges constantly until 1m30s, then waited until 2m15s to do the same thing, but by that time you could kb cycle and not select and click. and the kind of timing you used on your pumps was directly related to your land, start, and opponent's playstyle; could they handle a fast rush? no? then go for broke and start pumping at 1m. were they adept at defense? pyramid style pumping. and all these timings had to be done on three different available speeds (1.0, 1.5, 2.0), so muscle memory fluctuated with each game and opponent. and because of no queue, you only had a STOP option in the archery range, and had to wait for it to be finished before you could build more. as a result, you had to constantly take time away from other things (building more ranges, mining gold, farming, controlling your army, working the flank, defending the river, etcetc) to pump your ranges to increase your army.

a queue effectively negated this entire thing. no need for timings, you could just click a bunch of times in each range or barrack and devote more time to other things.

**** that. control and build your army like a MAN, not a lazy prick

 

[asianaussie]

why in the name of god would you advocate something that detracts from action, strategy and properly paying attention to your opponent, just so you can lord over other people due to having practiced macro skills

it is literally the same ****ing thing as z-cancelling: something that you only get through practice, almost utterly unhelpful to competitive play, an absolute barrier of entry to some players (hell, even some pro broodwar players have ****ty macro) and something that lets people who play more automatically beat friends who don't practice nearly as much

all of those devised schemes are is arbitrary jargon, timings are hardly unique to aoe (i still remember half the tech research timings for aom), autoqueue does nothing to remove the actual strategy of it (you still need to know when your turma come out, you can't just be doing things, head back to your crax and decide 'oh i have enough turma now let's go raiding!), and you are literally advocating a process that makes you build according to various speeds of muscle memory

 

[mixa]

**** that. control and build your army like a MAN

mowing the lawn under the sun makes me feel like a MAN
i don't like feeling like a MAN
i prefer playing videogames with automatic functions

 

[asianaussie]

moving the lawn makes me feel like a SLAVE

and there is one argument for the need for macro, which is that macro is a fundamental part of the competitive RTS skillset - if you had made this argument then ok, sure, but there is no other reason to introduce arbitrary techskill

continual single-type unit production (that uses resources) is significantly less arbitrary than z-cancelling, but the fact remains that you can cancel autoqueue'd units if you no longer want them, and that you are punished for cancelling in-build charas and buildings, so all it takes away is that sudden whip back to your control group of crax every half minute

 

[KeroKeroppi]

such a beautiful creature

10/10 would keep as a pet

 

[kys]

WTF Koro's an expert level chess player??

I guess he's been trolling us this whole time. That was one hell of a long con.

 

[Annex]

you had to constantly take time away from other things (building more ranges, mining gold, farming, controlling your army, working the flank, defending the river, etcetc) to pump your ranges to increase your army.

a queue effectively negated this entire thing

Sounds pretty sweet to me. Though, I actually think Brawl not having z-cancelling was a good thing, so I'm obviously not to be trusted

 

[M!nt]

such a beautiful creature
10/10 would keep as a pet

Raccoons are one of my favorite animals. They're adorable, but nothing will ever top ferrets! Baby hedgehogs and cats are close though.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

WTF Koro's an expert level chess player??

I guess he's been trolling us this whole time. That was one hell of a long con.

Not sure where the con is outside of winning a smashboards chess tournament wut.

If you wish to look me up, http://main.uschess.org/assets/msa_joomla/MbrDtlMain.php?12812057

Fide (for jokes): http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=2093855

Also, Sangoku, I've met a lot of people who are under the assumption that they know an opening and they don't know past it. You can't know an opening without knowing how to play tactically (or in other words, why play an opening when you don't understand in detail the difference between a person playing a move and a person playing a different variation and why certain variations are bad/not played. If you want to learn stuff as well, challenge me on chess.com and I'll give you some pointers.

People generally don't learn advance openings until they get to an advanced-intermediate level (like 1600) and they don't learn the variations till around my rating. Openings are way in second to tactics and traps at the intermediate level.

If someone wishes to play: http://www.chess.com/members/view/CabassoG

 

[ballin4life]

aoe didn't have autoqueue. i ****ing hated autoqueue. autoqueue is like brawl having no z canceling.

I see we must now be enemies.

Also I think this video series is pretty strong evidence that RTSs have very little strategy at low and intermediate levels: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL329BDD535CB76B3A
I know it's only for SC2 ... but I thought that game is considered to have "dumbed down" the technical skill requirement, yet this guy can still win convincingly at lower levels just by being able to build way more units than his opponents, while using no strategy at all (just massing a single not very good unit).

Any game is going to have some learning curve, but I think the learning curve until you get to actual strategies in smash is probably way less than in RTSs.

 

[Cobrevolution]

why in the name of god would you advocate something that detracts from action, strategy and properly paying attention to your opponent, just so you can lord over other people due to having practiced macro skills

because you have to learn how to split your time while playing an rts. you can't spend precious minutes making sure all of your military buildings are built in perfectly spaced lines and that your farms are all efficient; you just click blindly and hope for the best and delete mistakes. when you're organizing a sneak, you HAVE to divert your attention from the battle to the unsuspecting side. and when you're low on units, there's no reason you shouldn't be actively building them and aware of exactly WHEN they'll be coming out.

it is literally the same ****ing thing as z-cancelling: something that you only get through practice, almost utterly unhelpful to competitive play, an absolute barrier of entry to some players (hell, even some pro broodwar players have ****ty macro) and something that lets people who play more automatically beat friends who don't practice nearly as much

i've always been pro-z canceling, simply because i do not think removing the potential for human error is a good thing to do in a competitive game. you can drop a combo and lose a stock for it in smash; if there were no z canceling, there would be no possibility for mistakes to happen, and thus you don't need to actually worry about ever messing up a combo. further, if you remove z canceling, i don't see a reason to even having teching anymore. just have every fall be a tech. **** it, no possibility of ever missing it and being punished.

same with queue and pumping. you can easily mess up a pump timing and only have half your units built. not happening in queued buildings.

reason i love(d) aoe is because you can't slack off anywhere or you lose. forget to pump one vill in random map? now you're a vill behind and slower and probably not reaching the next age until 3min after everyone else. miss your pump timing by 10 seconds? well, your enemy just got the jump on you and is literally in your buildings, able to kill all of your scattered units before you have time to form an army.

again, i don't think it's about speed, but attention. and i think if you have something in a game that allows punishment, removing it makes the game easier and takes away an aspect of hand/mind coordination.

i never managed to get aom to work on any computer i owned, but i'm still probably able to whip up some badassery in aoe, if anyone is ever interested

this guy can still win convincingly at lower levels just by being able to build way more units than his opponents, while using no strategy at all

if two players are of equal skill in an rts, one guy using twice the amount of ****tier units than his opponent should yield an instant loss (ie, three heavy catapults vs 15 chariot archers - one group has a hugely damaging, large area projectile with no defense, while the other has low damaging, low area projectiles also with no defense...there are more, sure, but they still get ran the **** over)

i'm not too familiar with sc or sc2, so i'll have to watch after to see what it is you're exactly referring to

and about the learning curve: there are very general strats in a game like aoe, but you have to be able to adapt to an absurd amount of maps - i think aoe had 65k+ possible ones per style, and there were like 5 styles. so you practically never were able to adopt the exact same strategy every time. some people made "perfect" maps but they had no hills, no third "up for grabs" gold mine, no terrain to hide behind, nothing that encourages diversity. it was just a test of pure speed + army control. regular map players were always leagues above perfect map players.

 

[asianaussie]

i can understand it if you think that the ability to be super-attentive to every detail (and still remember to pump from every rax/tc) is valuable (because it is), but it doesn't excuse the idea of exalting wins that come of a disparity in baseline macro, which is imo an element of 'techskill', and therefore not nearly as relevant or satisfying a victory as one gotten through reads and tactics

sc bw is probably as macro-heavy as aoe, to the point where it's a skill as important as micro (as much as i hate to admit it)

at lower levels, the macro-intensive zerg player can totally overwhelm by spamming lings (small, cost-efficient and weak units) or hydras and then finish with a rush to final tier with cracklings (fully buffed lings) and dark swarm (a spell that gives protection from ranged attacks in an aoe), then a-moving with one dark swarm cast for a decisive positional victory by numbers alone - this is just one example

even so, micro is equally important at mid-high level in broodwar: control groups are 12 max, you win or lose battles based on microing (because the unit path programming is **** in most instances), and it can make up for macro deficiencies, which i guess is a way of displaying skill

 

[bloodpeach]

if there were no z canceling, there would be no possibility for mistakes to happen

 

[Cobrevolution]

i can understand it if you think that the ability to be super-attentive to every detail (and still remember to pump from every rax/tc) is valuable (because it is), but it doesn't excuse the idea of exalting wins that come of a disparity in baseline macro, which is imo an element of 'techskill', and therefore not nearly as relevant or satisfying a victory as one gotten through reads and tactics

tactics can very easily disrupt "techskill" in one of these games, though; ie, a super aggressive and fast player can force you to focus almost all of your attention on controlling your army, which leaves you very little time to gather necessary resources and takes time away from your pumps. you then have to rush through all of your military buildings and immediately dive back into army control

i like the idea of opponents being able to affect every part of your gameplay, from the mental side to the technical side, and when you **** up, you pay for it. same goes for smash - opponent gets into your head, forces you to react faster than you're used to, puts the pressure, oops! you miss a zcancel while spacing and get z2d'd. which is unfair, i think - you should be punished for nerves affecting your inputs and throwing off your timing.

but as we know, there's a difference between winning because you missed fewer zcancels and winning because you didn't have enough time to pump. the areas of focus are drastically different (in terms of numbers and size).

 

[asianaussie]

different skillsets, and i kinda see your reasoning (well, if z-cancels werent entirely arbitrary and bad for like four other reasons... it's really not a good example of something you want to keep in a game)

i still feel my parallels are reasonable, so im going to stand by my point of autoqueue being a step in the right direction

anyway, if you see your unit composition is wrong, you'd have to change it rax by rax anyway so hf with your macro

 

[KeroKeroppi]

Raccoons are one of my favorite animals. They're adorable, but nothing will ever top ferrets! Baby hedgehogs and cats are close though.

When Stranded and I were younger, we would care for the neighborhood raccoons. There were about 5 of them, we were pretty sure they were a family. They would come by the patio every night around 7 and we would give them fresh food and water. We had names for them and everything. It was amazing.

 

[Shears]

Nintendogs are the best animals.

 

[ballin4life]

Can we avoid another z canceling argument and just skip straight to the part where everyone agrees z canceling is dumb? Guess not.

I can tell you I personally know several people who would play more smash64 if z canceling were automatic. The fact is that you can't even appreciate the game until you learn this completely arbitrary tech skill. Can't learn any combos, tactics/strategy, etc. And so a new player says "well why would I want to spend all that time practicing something for an old game" and never gets a chance to even play smash64 the way we do.

The difference between z canceling and RTS unit building and whatnot is that Z canceling is completely unnecessary and doesn't add anything to the game. RTS unit building and macro and so forth are a huge barrier for newcomers but they at least are integral to the game - you can't really remove them. Z canceling could be removed easily with little impact on the game at high levels.

 

[Sangoku]

@ KoRoBeNiKi I don't have the pretension to say I know the openings; I'm just saying it's the only time I know what to do, not what to do right. If you're willing to give me tips, I'll definitely hit you up

 

[Cobrevolution]

i maintain the opinion that removing the potential for human error dilutes the game.

punishment for mistakes is an integral part of the game in my mind (of both spacing and input varieties), whether it's button sliding too fast and missing your attack input, accidentally double jumping, missing a z cancel, or not pivoting when you should have.

 

[The Star King]

i maintain the opinion that removing the potential for human error dilutes the game.

So if to z-cancel, you had to do quarter circle stick + b + z + c-up, our just z version is a diluted game in comparison?

 

[mixa]

the c-stick is a damn fine solvent

 

[bloodpeach]

I remember this argument in the skype chat in the days of fireblaster (RIP). I'll share the conculsions to save time:

Any reduction in tech requirements dilutes the game, but any increase is just plain stupid. In fact, Smash 64 is perfect and no changes could possibly improve the game. Unless the changes make Samus better.

 

[Cobrevolution]

So if to z-cancel, you had to do quarter circle stick + b + z + c-up, our just z version is a diluted game in comparison?

i don't think it's fair to compare four complex movements to one simple tap of a button but i get what you guys mean

but do ya'll at least understand that if you're doing any number of ff aerial combos on platforms, it's not fair to be able to do them perfectly without risking a dropped combo, and thereby eliminating the punish?