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Battlecow

Play to Win
Joined
May 19, 2009
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Chicago
I don't think you're taking history into account here.

m2k splits whenever he can and, given his druthers, he doesn't play out the finals at all.

And no, splitting is not OK if you play your mains afterwards. If i wanted to see people "shake hands and play some smash," I'd watch some of Eclipsing_Binary's camera-friendlies. Grand finals should be grand finals. There should be money on the line.
 

Olikus

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
2,451
Location
Norway
Pichu vs kirby sounds like a fun GF. I know i would gotten happy if luigi faced DK in 64 GF at apex 2013 :)

:phone:
 

TANK64

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
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Training Mode
bcow must really really really hate people who split, lol
I know right lol.

People hatin' on M2K, tisk tisk. He didn't even do anything that bad IMO. He just pretty much screwed himself over, and everyone is all mad, basically because of his...history.

That being said, I've never been against splitting, but I'm starting to think splitting at something this big or a "national" is probably a bad idea lol...

(actually if they don't ****ing advertise it to the public, especially before, and play the **** out FOR REAL, then I don't even think any of this would be a problem)
 

Battlecow

Play to Win
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May 19, 2009
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sooooooooooooooo against splitting

If I could choose between stopping the holocaust and stopping two best friends from splitting at a 20-man local, I'd halt that split in a heartbeat
 

SheerMadness

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
4,781
Meh I'm calling battle cattle's bluff.

If Isai offered him to split with like $1000 on the line he'd split in a heartbeat.
 

Battlecow

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May 19, 2009
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Lol dude

I'm not that poor

100 grand maybe, but I'd have to save a starving african child's life or something to make myself feel better.
 

SheerMadness

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
4,781
I'd be impressed if you actually declined a split with Isai (with big money on the line), since you have no chance to beat him.

I'd take the split.

But we'll never find out, so I still think you're all talk.
 

Battlecow

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I'd be impressed if you actually declined a split with Isai (with big money on the line), since you have no chance to beat him.

I'd take the split.

But we'll never find out, so I still think you're all talk.
Yeah, but it's kind of beside the point. There wouldn't be a ton of hype involved in a sheermadness/battlecow vs isai grand finals, because it'd be a foregone conclusion. friendlies would be like almost as good for the viewers and so forth. If m2k wanted to split with like, leffen or some other terrible player that he could just mercilessly 4-stock over and over, just because he felt like giving them some money, it wouldn't be a HUGE deal, but splitting at a major tournament with good players where there could've been hype is more what I'm talking about.

Still wouldn't take the split on principle
 

Tom Bombadil

Smash Journeyman
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Oct 12, 2012
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305
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I put the CPU on Kirby whenever I go into training mode as falcon so that when I play against him in a match I'm conditioned to not have fun. This way, I am never disappointed.

#GeniusPavlov
 

clubbadubba

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
4,086
One of my friend cousins had a funny story about smash I thought I 'd share:

His mom apparently got pissed at them and tried to break their n64 by throwing it out the window (apparently she's does this quite successfully with xbox's mulitple times). Little did she know how robust that n64 is. That lil mother ****er survived the fall, with just one little problem. The smash cartridge that was in the n64 at the time got slightly messed up so that whenever you play 1p mode, you are ALWAYS mario no matter who you select lol.
 

XKCP

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
418
Location
Baton Rouge, LA
One of my friend cousins had a funny story about smash I thought I 'd share:

His mom apparently got pissed at them and tried to break their n64 by throwing it out the window (apparently she's does this quite successfully with xbox's mulitple times). Little did she know how robust that n64 is. That lil mother ****er survived the fall, with just one little problem. The smash cartridge that was in the n64 at the time got slightly messed up so that whenever you play 1p mode, you are ALWAYS mario no matter who you select lol.
Seems pretty balanced. I'd play that.
 

KnitePhox

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
1,838
Location
Chicago, IL
holidays and birthday celebrations are make believe, today is thanksgiving in the USA and it is also my bday, DOUBLE FAKE


BLACK FRIDAAAAY
 

joY

Pot splitter
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Mar 26, 2010
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(626)
His mom apparently got pissed at them and tried to break their n64 by throwing it out the window (apparently she's does this quite successfully with xbox's mulitple times).
Who buys the new Xbox's she breaks?!

She sounds terrifying.
 

kys

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
660
Location
World Traveler
I don't think you're taking history into account here.

m2k splits whenever he can and, given his druthers, he doesn't play out the finals at all.

And no, splitting is not OK if you play your mains afterwards. If i wanted to see people "shake hands and play some smash," I'd watch some of Eclipsing_Binary's camera-friendlies. Grand finals should be grand finals. There should be money on the line.
Phew, back from a nice Thanksgiving vacation.

Battlecow, I would bet my soul that there have been grand finals that ended super hype where the two finalists privately agreed to split afterward. You can't police splits.

You're projecting your attitudes of competition onto other people. There are other motivating factors besides money which may be more powerful than money.

tl;dr
Splitting may or may not ruin a tourney. We can't say for sure either way, and we can't police it, so it's not worth worrying about.
 

Battlecow

Play to Win
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Phew, back from a nice Thanksgiving vacation.

Battlecow, I would bet my soul that there have been grand finals that ended super hype where the two finalists privately agreed to split afterward. You can't police splits.

You're projecting your attitudes of competition onto other people. There are other motivating factors besides money which may be more powerful than money.

tl;dr
Splitting may or may not ruin a tourney. We can't say for sure either way, and we can't police it, so it's not worth worrying about.
You'd bet your soul 1:1 on there having been a grand finals at a major tourney where the competitors agreed to split... AFTERWARDS? Really now? I don't think you quite thought that one through. I'll take the bet though. I could use another soul.
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
I don't think "afterward" was the point, but "privately". English ambiguity. Could be interpreted as him saying "the agreement to split took place afterwards" or "they privately agreed beforehand to split the money with each other after they leave the venue". He probably meant the latter.
 

kys

Smash Ace
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Obviously meant the latter, but thanks Star King.

Battlecow looking for an obscure ambiguity to avoid addressing the actual meat of the post. So predictable.
 

Battlecow

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Nah I legitimately did not understand that.

O OK

eh I still very much doubt it, people tend to look at splitting as a great reason to either not play it out or to sandbag to a silly degree.

What you're not taking into account, kys, is that good melee players have never really been pressured not to split before. They've always been pretty open about it. The closest thing to what you're describing would probably be big house, which lovage and s2j split. But they admitted that straight up, put a $50 MM on top of grand finals, and it was still totally unhype (granted, it would've been pretty unhype even if they hadn't split because johnny-oscar isn't exactly a new MU).

You seem to be imagining some sort of shadow agreement whereby players like PP or Armada or Hbox agreed to split but keep it a total secret from everyone. The idea's ridiculous. These are proud, competitive, and self-confident players, who really want to beat each other and would hate losing a match and not being able to correct people as to its significance.

You're right about one thing: we can't police splitting if it's well-done. If two people really feel like colluding, being secretive about it, and then playing super-hard anyways, we couldn't tell with any degree of certainty. But why on earth would they do that? The whole reason people like m2k want to split is that they're tired of playing anyways. If we ban splitting, it'll pretty much stop.

And no, it would not be hype to watch two uninterested people play friendlies. It just wouldn't.
 

kys

Smash Ace
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I've personally known about, and done myself, private splits that happened after in poker tournaments.

I've been involved in both public and private splits that did not impact heads-up play because I still wanted to beat the tar out of my opponent, as did he. The monetary agreement was more of "Let's pay the bills" sort of thing.

Dr. PP was pumped when he won Kings of Cali. Now, I agree that someone like him with his determination to win and prove himself would probably turn down a split, but if I found out tomorrow that he split with Mango it would not taint or tarnish my view of the tournament or Dr. PP.

I don't know the melee community well. If splitting is common AND ruining tournaments, then something should be done (peer pressure can go a long way in doing this). I was speaking from a more hypothetical position.

I still believe that if splitting had been banned for Rom 5, the tournament would still have left a sour taste because of the DSR shenanigans. That was the disappointing part for me, aside from any overarching splitting problems.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the possible negative impact on splitting. It can be bad, but not always so; it's dependent on the participants.

You hate it with a passion, and I can understand that.

Did everyone have an awesome THANKSGIVING?
 

kys

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
660
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World Traveler
Lots of great food and friends and whatnot. Pretty standard Thanksgiving, but standard is good. Only downside is I'll have to hit the gym a little more this week, but it was worth it.
 
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