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imagine if someone rebooted buddyfight but they took the characters you love and changed them to be the exact opposite of why you loved them
Well, technically, that's what happened with DDD, but it wasn't so much that everyone hated the rebooted characters, they hated the fact that that series in particular had lazy writing(stop with the damn fish puns already) and also they quite literally never mentioned the other series(and pretty much reset the character's personalities to zero)

Although, rant over.. shoulda made it clear that I got his point.
 

SnakeFighter64

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DmC is damn near universally hated by the fans for being such a radical departure from the main series in terms of both gameplay and tone, not to mention the complete butchering of Dante's character and the developers taking a **** on the legacy of the original games. Ninja Theory often touted their version of DmC to be superior to the originals and even claimed that the story was "almost like Shakespeare in the tone"

There's legit a scene in the game where a white wig lands on DINO's (Dante in name only) head just so he can make a stupid remark about how that's never gonna happen.

Can you butcher a character that has none to begin with? Like, I’ve played all 5 games start to end. And I can’t remember a single time where Dante even changed facial expressions. No matter the situation, no matter the enemy, it’s always just “smile, laugh, spout catchphrase”. And he doesn’t have the backstory or in game narrative to justify it like Kratos and Bayonetta do. He never does anything for any reason other than money or still having a planet to live on. The stories are barely ever even about him, they just kind of happen around him. He has no character. He barely has a personality, and he certainly has no character.

DmC has an arc. He has quieter moments that show a depth to him. The story is unquestionably his. It’s just.... better. I’m my opinion at least.
 
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Opossum

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I swear to god if I miss one more ****ing Gigantamax Drednaw, I'm gonna get toxic. This is actually pissing me off.
Sorry, but Toxic isn't a TM anymore so you won't be able to get Toxic.
 

Will

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Hey, everyone. Came back here once it didn't feel so barren, also:


I don't have a clear stance on this, but does anyone else?​
It's funny how they use Hero, despite the fact he's not entirely mute.

He has entire flashbacks where he talks in full sentences with no hesitation, complete with an accent (if you put on English voices)
 
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Lamperouge

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Can you butcher a character that has none to begin with? Like, I’ve played all 5 games start to end. And I can’t remember a single time where Dante even changed facial expressions. No matter the situation, no matter the enemy, it’s always just “smile, laugh, spout catchphrase”. And he doesn’t have the backstory or in game narrative to justify it like Kratos and Bayonetta do. He never does anything for any reason other than money or still having a planet to live on. The stories are barely ever even about him, they just kind of happen around him. He has no character. He barely has a personality, and he certainly has no character.
A character doesn't always need a deep backstory or multiple personality traits to be endearing.

Dante was cheesy and killed demons in style without giving a **** most of the time, and that makes him extremely fun to watch; DINO may have more layers to his character than the original one does, sure, but he has zero charisma and I can't find myself rooting for him like I can with actual Dante. That being said, Dante definitely has his share of serious moments too, especially when Vergil is involved.

Hell, he even ******* cries in DMC1 when Trish "dies".
 

Will

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If you prefer DmC over the other actual DMC games I think you're either trying to make yourself quirky and unique for liking a heavily disliked game or you're just really into getting bullied.
 

Opossum

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Wait, its not?

****, missed that.

Well I guess I won't be getting toxic then.
Did you think I wouldn't notice the name edit? :V

And yeah, it's a pretty notable thing.
 

osby

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I don't have a clear stance on this, but does anyone else?
It comes down to implementation. If the main character is supposed to be likable/interesting, a silent protagonist can still fit the bill with good dialogue options. ATLUS is pretty good at this.

I prefer silent protags in JRPGs compared to voiced ones but nothing concrete aside from that.
 

Will

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Preferring a silent character over a voiced character depends on how they write the character if it's voiced.

:ultshulk:? Voiced, but a mastahpiece of character growth.

Lightning from FF13? Voiced, but I'd rather not talk about her. :nifty:
 

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osby

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Can you butcher a character that has none to begin with? Like, I’ve played all 5 games start to end. And I can’t remember a single time where Dante even changed facial expressions. No matter the situation, no matter the enemy, it’s always just “smile, laugh, spout catchphrase”. And he doesn’t have the backstory or in game narrative to justify it like Kratos and Bayonetta do. He never does anything for any reason other than money or still having a planet to live on. The stories are barely ever even about him, they just kind of happen around him. He has no character. He barely has a personality, and he certainly has no character.

DmC has an arc. He has quieter moments that show a depth to him. The story is unquestionably his. It’s just.... better. I’m my opinion at least.
You know, I think DmC Dante did some stuff better than the main one, but dunking on other characters to make your fave look better is not a good habit.

Also saying he has no character or backstory to justify his actions is outright wrong.
 

Shadowwolflink

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Hey, everyone. Came back here once it didn't feel so barren, also:


I don't have a clear stance on this, but does anyone else?​
Of course they still have a place, silent protagonists allow you an extra level of immersion that you don't get when the protagonist starts saying things that you wouldn't say in the same situation.
 

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DMC-4-Gif-devil-may-cry-30450206-500-500.gif

This topic again.

I just say that, the only game I think Dante never change his default expression is DMC2, the worst game in the OG series with the most dull story to boot.

Every other games does show a more serious side of him at time, some more than others (DMC4 as the most laid back Dante, while DMC5 as the most serious one I say)

Saying he only has 1 face & no character or motivation show just a lack of understanding of Dante characters, or the story of 3 & 5 (1 didn't have admittely that much story compared to the others, and 4 plot suffer from the game being cleary not fully realized, but Dante still has more facet to him than PIZZA YOLLO YEAAAAH Man, especially if you take account the fact that 4 take place after 2)
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Can you butcher a character that has none to begin with? Like, I’ve played all 5 games start to end. And I can’t remember a single time where Dante even changed facial expressions. No matter the situation, no matter the enemy, it’s always just “smile, laugh, spout catchphrase”. And he doesn’t have the backstory or in game narrative to justify it like Kratos and Bayonetta do. He never does anything for any reason other than money or still having a planet to live on. The stories are barely ever even about him, they just kind of happen around him. He has no character. He barely has a personality, and he certainly has no character.

DmC has an arc. He has quieter moments that show a depth to him. The story is unquestionably his. It’s just.... better. I’m my opinion at least.
We've been over this, Dante went from hating his father due to assuming he's a deadbeat dad to respecting him, struggling to keep himself emotionally stable after the loss of his brother, spiraled into depression due to his own selfesteem issues and how he longs for his family which he lost, only to start improving after finding out about Nero, which helped push him out of his depression as he no longer felt so alone. In DMCV he's still got his issues and treats Nero like **** because he doesn't understand how to handle the situation as he's quite insecure of himself. You can like Donte, whatever, but if you even as much as imply Donte has half of the character or a mere smidge of the growth Dante has, you're outright lying. Dante is a man who puts on a show to distract himself from his insecurities and sorrow, as deep down he longs for nothing more than to have his family back
 

Lighteni

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I come back just to see people saying DmC Dante is more complex than DMC Dante?

DmC Dante probably has more depth, yes, but that doesn’t mean anything if the character isn’t interesting in the first place. I think some people need to understand that not every character neccesarily needs development. A well-written simple character is better than a poorly-written complex character.
 
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I swear to god if I miss one more ****ing Gigantamax Drednaw, I'm gonna get toxic. This is actually pissing me off.
I can't even reliably beat it due to the crappy AI mons, which sucks because it prevents refreshing the dens.
 
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I come back just to see people saying DmC Dante is more complex than DMC Dante?

DmC Dante probably has more depth, yes, but that doesn’t mean anything if the character isn’t interesting in the first place. I think some people need to understand that not every character neccesarily needs development. A well-written simple character is better than a poorly-written complex character.
Ditto here, one of the non-DmC examples that came to my head right off the bad is Yugi Muto.
He's written to basically be the shadow of Yami Yugi(aka the Pharaoh) but has his own motivations and goals, seperate from Yami Yugi. Not overly complex, but just complex enough to be a well-written character.
 
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SnakeFighter64

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You know, I think DmC Dante did some stuff better than the main one, but dunking on other characters to make your fave look better is not a good habit.

Also saying he has no character or backstory to justify his actions is outright wrong.
We’ve had this discussion before. And everyone always points to things I just didn’t experience in the games. Sometimes they even describe whole scenes I don’t even remember. Do they like, cut out story sequences if you play on easy or something?

Like, I’m not dunking on classic Dante just to make my favorite better. I legitimately, somehow, have not experienced whatever is in these games to make his character interesting or to show you his backstory, despite playing every game in the series beginning to end (except 3 because it’s bull**** hard and I couldn’t beat the final Vergil fight). And I want to know why that is. (And if the answer to that is I need to read mobilizations or manga or watch anime then that doesn’t really fix the problem. Imo, you should be able to experience a games story in the actual game.)
 

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We've been over this, Dante went from hating his father due to assuming he's a deadbeat dad to respecting him, struggling to keep himself emotionally stable after the loss of his brother, spiraled into depression due to his own selfesteem issues and how he longs for his family which he lost, only to start improving after finding out about Nero, which helped push him out of his depression as he no longer felt so alone. In DMCV he's still got his issues and treats Nero like **** because he doesn't understand how to handle the situation as he's quite insecure of himself. You can like Donte, whatever, but if you even as much as imply Donte has half of the character or a mere smidge of the growth Dante has, you're outright lying. Dante is a man who puts on a show to distract himself from his insecurities and sorrow, as deep down he longs for nothing more than to have his family back
Then where is that in the games. Seriously. I’m willing to believe you. But I want to actually see it because, as I’ve said before, I have played all 5 games and have not seen a single thing of what your talking about.
 
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We’ve had this discussion before. And everyone always points to things I just didn’t experience in the games. Sometimes they even describe whole scenes I don’t even remember. Do they like, cut out story sequences if you play on easy or something?

Like, I’m not dunking on classic Dante just to make my favorite better. I legitimately, somehow, have not experienced whatever is in these games to make his character interesting or to show you his backstory, despite playing every game in the series beginning to end (except 3 because it’s bull**** hard and I couldn’t beat the final Vergil fight). And I want to know why that is. (And if the answer to that is I need to read mobilizations or manga or watch anime then that doesn’t really fix the problem. Imo, you should be able to experience a games story in the actual game.)
I don't have the knowledge to answer your whole question, but I disagree with this:
"(And if the answer to that is I need to read mobilizations or manga or watch anime then that doesn’t really fix the problem. Imo, you should be able to experience a games story in the actual game.)"

Like sure, if it's necessary to understand the entire plot? Then ya, I agree. But having more media to watch, read, etc, isn't really a bad thing.

Buddyfight, for example, uses the anime as a teaching tool first, plot second(which honestly is a double edged sword, see DDD, for example)
Furthermore, watching the anime allows you to understand some of the lore relating to the cards themselves.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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We’ve had this discussion before. And everyone always points to things I just didn’t experience in the games. Sometimes they even describe whole scenes I don’t even remember. Do they like, cut out story sequences if you play on easy or something?

Like, I’m not dunking on classic Dante just to make my favorite better. I legitimately, somehow, have not experienced whatever is in these games to make his character interesting or to show you his backstory, despite playing every game in the series beginning to end (except 3 because it’s bull**** hard and I couldn’t beat the final Vergil fight). And I want to know why that is. (And if the answer to that is I need to read mobilizations or manga or watch anime then that doesn’t really fix the problem. Imo, you should be able to experience a games story in the actual game.)
The reason you never noticed is because DMC's character based narrative is quite subtle, you need to pay attention to seemingly small details to get the big picture, like how Vergil is genuinely conflicted once he finds out Nero is his son. He goes from trying to kill Dante to saying "If I beat Nero, then by default, I beat you". Not only does this show he's still stubborn, but he went from a battle to the death to merely wanting to 'beat' Nero. The fight even starts off with Nero angrily lashing out at Vergil for trying to leave him out of this, what's Vergil's response, another witty remark like he always makes? An insult? No, Vergil's only able to muster a soft voice saying "Nero...". There's also how he gives Nero his book of poetry after he loses to Nero, he feels remorse and although he can't say it, he wants to make up for abandoning Nero
 

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Hey, everyone. Came back here once it didn't feel so barren, also:


I don't have a clear stance on this, but does anyone else?​
IMO, NiGHTS was better voiceless than when they added a voice in NiGHTS Journey of Dreams.

That said, I'm spoiled by my Western RPGs having voiced dialogue options. It's hard to go back to Dragon Age Origins after playing DAII and DA:I.
 

osby

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The reason you never noticed is because DMC's character-based narrative is quite subtle, you need to pay attention to seemingly small details to get the big picture
This.

A lot of game fandoms have stigmas around certain characters just because people don't read between the lines. Subtext can be just as effective as main text in understanding characters.
 
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