Social Social Thread - Please Read Last Post

[Gentlepanda]

So now the big question is how do we know it's not the same guy, and what exactly had the Japanese guy leaked credibly in the past.

to my knowledge, the japanese guy leaked a number of design documents and concept art related to touhou 17 before its official announcement, which was extremely significant within the community

nature of 4chan makes it hard to say whether or not he's the same person as the 4chan leaker, but the writing style (in rough translation)--grammatical choices, overall tone and vocabulary--is quite different, and looking over the reimu thread earlier this morning, they certainly don't read like the same person.

it'd also be a bizarre series of events for the leaker in question to make a fake smash claim on 4chan in english, go on to leak genuine touhou 17 information on 5chan in japanese, then return to making the same fake claim in japanese almost a year after originally making it back on 4chan. leakers will do some crazy 5D **** (as we saw in a certain leak celebrating its one-year anniversary today), but nothing about that proposed order makes any sense to me.

 

[Shroob]

This is one of the most

:thinking:

Leaks that I've ever seen.

I absolutely do not believe it at all, but it's just

Odd.

 

[Deleted member]

This is one of the most

:thinking:

Leaks that I've ever seen.

I absolutely do not believe it at all, but it's just

Odd.

What leak? I'm really tired, so I don't feel like going back a page to check which one you're talking about

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

One other thought: Considering the accessibility issue with Touhou, if the idea is not only to bring fans of different series together, but also to get fans to play new games, how exactly does that work for the second part there? Unless of course there's a deal in place to have those games come officially overseas and to Switch.

There's just logistical things here that I can't quite put together. Sure, a leaker says one thing. But we've also had leakers with "credibility" come out and back 3 characters in the last 72 hours. If somebody else says it's Reimu, and that person has had correct information on Smash before then ok, yeah, I'll believe it, even if I really have little interest in the character.

Alright but let's not ignore part of the game that we're playing right now.

The leak says Nintendo asked for music.

Humoring the leak for a second, literally what else could it be for? ZUN isn't one to hand over the rights to his series to big game publishers soo easily.

This is the big question. If this leak has any shred of credibility, one has to wonder what else the request could be for if not Smash.

I mean sure, but that's not typically how characters have leaked. The leaker usually just says, "they're in Smash", and leaves it at that. Instead, this leaker says, "There's a bunch of songs, but I don't know if the character is in Smash!"

That, to me, seems off. How would this person know that "music was obtained for Smash", but not what it's being used for? Then you have the fact that this particular Challenger Pack is giving you substantially more content than the other packs for the same price. That seems especially sketchy to me. This particular point may not mean much, but I find it odd that series like Dragon Quest, Persona, and Banjo bring in something like a max of 13 songs, yet this last series brings in nearly 30? I don't know about that. Seems weird.

 

[Wademan94]

I shared this on the shipping thread already but I can’t get enough of these two:

o no its weegee and daisy Dynamic Duo pic.twitter.com/ODQMb3EscD

— Egg (@482EGG) October 20, 2019

I'd volunteer Paper Mario, but uh, doesn't look like he's happening anytime soon

I don’t care, granted I think he needs a new game that’s better than what he’s been given lately (which is what i hope to do with those ideas I’ve been working on) but I still think he’d be great in Smash regardless.

 

[Gentlepanda]

handy dandy infographic not made by me
(full size because SB is being weird with images and thumbnails)

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I’d love to have Reimu if only because it always reminds me of this video.

 

[Shroob]

One other thought: Considering the accessibility issue with Touhou, if the idea is not only to bring fans of different series together, but also to get fans to play new games, how exactly does that work for the second part there? Unless of course there's a deal in place to have those games come officially overseas and to Switch.

There's just logistical things here that I can't quite put together. Sure, a leaker says one thing. But we've also had leakers with "credibility" come out and back 3 characters in the last 72 hours. If somebody else says it's Reimu, and that person has had correct information on Smash before then ok, yeah, I'll believe it, even if I really have little interest in the character.


I mean sure, but that's not typically how characters have leaked. The leaker usually just says, "they're in Smash", and leaves it at that. Instead, this leaker says, "There's a bunch of songs, but I don't know if the character is in Smash!"

That, to me, seems off. How would this person know that "music was obtained for Smash", but not what it's being used for? Then you have the fact that this particular Challenger Pack is giving you substantially more content than the other packs for the same price. That seems especially sketchy to me. This particular point may not mean much, but I find it odd that series like Dragon Quest, Persona, and Banjo bring in something like a max of 13 songs, yet this last series brings in nearly 30? I don't know about that. Seems weird.

I mean, the thing about Touhou is that its music far out shines the games to be blunt.

If any series was gonna pull a Castlevania, it'd be Touhou.

 

[Idon]

Honestly, the only thing I'm really iffy on is the song selection.

I know Sakurai/Nintendo likes their "niche" songs and "weird" songs to remix, looking at you Castlevania and Persona, but the selection here feels like it's missing a few popular character themes while using some more niche and obscure themes, even for Touhou fan standards.

Then again, we didn't get Megaman X's Central Highway till Smash 4 so who knows.

 

[Gentlepanda]

I mean, the thing about Touhou is that its music far out shines the games to be blunt.

If any series was gonna pull a Castlevania, it'd be Touhou.

touhou music is also dirt cheap to license because nintendo would only have to go through one guy (who would probably be more than willing to give them basically any track they ask for)

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

All I'm going to say is, I'll believe it once a Smash leaker with cred says it's happening. Otherwise I think it's hasty to assume anything. it just seems...like a weird ass leak.

 

[zeldasmash]

I mean, the thing about Touhou is that its music far out shines the games to be blunt.

If any series was gonna pull a Castlevania, it'd be Touhou.

I think Touhou is one of the franchises where you likely may have heard plenty of pieces from but you never knew where the piece came from.

 

[Ivander]

I’d love to have Reimu if only because it always reminds me of this video.

A reminder that there is a version that replaces Ronald with Flandre.

That aside, doesn't Touhou have another main character beside Reimu? The blonde witch, Marisa IIRC?

 

[Deleted member]

So, going by the context, the leak is about Touhou?

Meh, literally don't care at all either way(but I lean more towards "Just giveme Mettaton dammit!")

What's Touhou again?

 

[Cosmic77]

I mean this in the nicest of ways, but Reimu is a character people would forget rather quickly. Her franchise is almost nonexistent here in the states, and I can't see her being much better off than Terry. She'd be, in my opinion, the worst addition of the DLC due to how obscure she is overseas.

And before anyone angrily rushes in to defend her and say something along the lines of, "It's your fault for not playing her games!", "She could be unique," or, "Smash introduces us to cool new series we never heard of!", all of those are generic statements meant to brush off how someone might feel dissatisfied with a character. Those statements can be said about EVERY character.

I don't mind a few surprises here and there, but seeing how most of this pass has gone so far, I really think Nintendo should've ended this pass with a character that would appeal to more people. Even if the character wasn't extremely popular, at least add someone who most people would be able to recognize without pulling out their phones. I guess it doesn't matter now that we know we're getting more fighters, but still, the pass was originally all we were getting.

 

[Ivander]

What's Touhou again?

Have you seen those Shoot-em ups like Gradius, but instead involve LOTS AND LOTS of lasers and tend to be very difficult? Touhou's in that category.

Edit: Bullet hells, that's what I was looking for. Basically, Touhou is a Bullet Hell Shoot-em up that is often difficult. I believe it was the origin of the meme, "Easy Mode?! It's unforgivable to play Easy Mode unless you are an Elementary Kid!"

 

[TheCJBrine]

As I mentioned before, though I’ve only read this from other people, ZUN is very easy to deal with when it comes to Touhou, or at least its music.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I’d love to have Reimu if only because it always reminds me of this video.

****, i loved this video as a kid

 

[BlueMonk]

One other thought: Considering the accessibility issue with Touhou, if the idea is not only to bring fans of different series together, but also to get fans to play new games, how exactly does that work for the second part there? Unless of course there's a deal in place to have those games come officially overseas and to Switch.

There's just logistical things here that I can't quite put together. Sure, a leaker says one thing. But we've also had leakers with "credibility" come out and back 3 characters in the last 72 hours. If somebody else says it's Reimu, and that person has had correct information on Smash before then ok, yeah, I'll believe it, even if I really have little interest in the character.


I mean sure, but that's not typically how characters have leaked. The leaker usually just says, "they're in Smash", and leaves it at that. Instead, this leaker says, "There's a bunch of songs, but I don't know if the character is in Smash!"

That, to me, seems off. How would this person know that "music was obtained for Smash", but not what it's being used for? Then you have the fact that this particular Challenger Pack is giving you substantially more content than the other packs for the same price. That seems especially sketchy to me. This particular point may not mean much, but I find it odd that series like Dragon Quest, Persona, and Banjo bring in something like a max of 13 songs, yet this last series brings in nearly 30? I don't know about that. Seems weird.

I'm pretty sure this person just has connections to those certain groups or something and that's why they know about the music but not if the character is actually in or not

 

[Deleted member]

I mean this in the nicest of ways, but Reimu is a character people would forget rather quickly. Her franchise is almost nonexistent here in the states, and I can't see her being much better off than Terry. She'd be, in my opinion, the worst addition of the DLC due to how obscure she is overseas.

And before anyone angrily rushes in to defend her and say something along the lines of, "It's your fault for not playing her games!", "She could be unique," or, "Smash introduces us to cool new series we never heard of!", all of those are generic statements meant to brush off how someone might feel dissatisfied with a character. Those statements can be said about EVERY character.

I don't mind a few surprises here and there, but seeing how most of this pass has gone so far, I really think Nintendo should've ended this pass with a character that would appeal to more people. Even if the character wasn't extremely popular, at least add someone who most people would be able to recognize without pulling out their phones. I guess it doesn't matter now that we know we're getting more fighters, but still, the pass was originally all we were getting.

pretty much how I feel. I've literally never heard of Touhou(except in the Undertale community in regards to it's music, funnily enough) and the footage I've seen leads me to believe it's a waifu rpg(something I hate with a passion)

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Honestly, the only thing I'm really iffy on is the song selection.

I know Sakurai/Nintendo likes their "niche" songs and "weird" songs to remix, looking at you Castlevania and Persona, but the selection here feels like it's missing a few popular character themes while using some more niche and obscure themes, even for Touhou fan standards.

Then again, we didn't get Megaman X's Central Highway till Smash 4 so who knows.

But wouldn’t that give the leak more points in its favor though?

If someone was trying to make a fake song list for Smash, wouldn’t their first options on the list be the most popular ones?

I’m not saying the leak is real, I just think that would give it a bit more credibility

 

[Idon]

A reminder that there is a version that replaces Ronald with Flandre.

That aside, doesn't Touhou have another main character beside Reimu? The blonde witch, Marisa IIRC?

Yeah she gets to play the Ken to Reimu's Ryu. She's quite a popular character but definitely a step below Reimu in terms of general marketability.

 

[Hinata]

Then you have the fact that this particular Challenger Pack is giving you substantially more content than the other packs for the same price. That seems especially sketchy to me. This particular point may not mean much, but I find it odd that series like Dragon Quest, Persona, and Banjo bring in something like a max of 13 songs, yet this last series brings in nearly 30? I don't know about that. Seems weird.

Lemme just address this point here; the leak lists 22 songs that are being remixed for Smash. However, 4 of these songs (Maiden's Capriccio, Mystic Oriental Dream, Spring Lane, and Dichromatic Lotus Butterfly) are, apparently, actually a part of a single medley, since all of them are Reimu's themes.

So, in reality, there are only 18 individual songs included in this challenger pack, compared to Dragon Quest's 8, Banjo-Kazooie's 10, and Persona's 11.

Still a little bit of an outlier, but not as much as you might think.

 

[Alternis]

I have to say, if any DLC pack comes with more songs than is typical, I'm glad it's Touhou.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Lemme just address this point here; the leak lists 22 songs that are being remixed for Smash. However, 4 of these songs (Maiden's Capriccio, Mystic Oriental Dream, Spring Lane, and Dichromatic Lotus Butterfly) are, apparently, actually a part of a single medley, since all of them are Reimu's themes.

So, in reality, there are only 18 individual songs included in this challenger pack, compared to Dragon Quest's 8, Banjo-Kazooie's 10, and Persona's 11.

Still a little bit of an outlier, but not as much as you might think.

And considering this is an indie IP with a very loose IP holder, it makes sense it would have way more music.

 

[Lighteni]

For Touhou music you only need to talk to one guy to get the license for a bunch of songs, way easier than with an actual company. Such a huge number of songs makes sense.

 

[Idon]

But wouldn’t that give the leak more points in its favor though?

If someone was trying to make a fake song list for Smash, wouldn’t their first options on the list be the most popular ones?

I’m not saying the leak is real, I just think that would give it a bit more credibility

Ehh, potentially, not going to lean too hard one way or another.

I don't really like relying on the logic that "Oh, because it's not expected, it's more likely!" because at that point, you could really justify anything being likely or anything being unlikely, lookin' at you "Brave not being Erdrick."

Plus, we have had a few song lists that are about as expected as far as 3rd parties go. Persona had all the battle themes of the 3 games and remixes of the popular songs (biggest outlier being the remix of the relaxing song from P5) and Dragon Quest had all the battle themes and several popular themes of the 4 heroes represented.

 

[Deleted member]

Funko lives in a society

 

[Shroob]

I mean this in the nicest of ways, but Reimu is a character people would forget rather quickly. Her franchise is almost nonexistent here in the states, and I can't see her being much better off than Terry. She'd be, in my opinion, the worst addition of the DLC due to how obscure she is overseas.

And before anyone angrily rushes in to defend her and say something along the lines of, "It's your fault for not playing her games!", "She could be unique," or, "Smash introduces us to cool new series we never heard of!", all of those are generic statements meant to brush off how someone might feel dissatisfied with a character. Those statements can be said about EVERY character.

I don't mind a few surprises here and there, but seeing how most of this pass has gone so far, I really think Nintendo should've ended this pass with a character that would appeal to more people. Even if the character wasn't extremely popular, at least add someone who most people would be able to recognize without pulling out their phones. I guess it doesn't matter now that we know we're getting more fighters, but still, the pass was originally all we were getting.

On the other hand, Reimu would be huge since she would be the first playable Indie.

The series has been going on for almost 30 years in Japan, you're insane to think people would "forget" her.

 

[Gentlepanda]

happy grinchiversary in the UK btw

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Ehh, potentially, not going to lean too hard one way or another.

I don't really like relying on the logic that "Oh, because it's not expected, it's more likely!" because at that point, you could really justify anything being likely or anything being unlikely, lookin' at you "Brave not being Erdrick."

Plus, we have had a few song lists that are about as expected as far as 3rd parties go. Persona had all the battle themes of the 3 games and remixes of the popular songs (biggest outlier being the remix of the relaxing song from P5) and Dragon Quest had all the battle themes and several popular themes of the 4 heroes represented.

Whereas Banjo is missing one of the major battle themes from the series. Seriously, why do we not have the Final Battle theme from the original game.

 

[CannonStreak]

happy grinchiversary in the UK btw

View attachment 242869

Ah, what a time to be alive, with all the craziness going on back then and everyone going down each others' throats. I will never forget the Grinch leak.

 

[Deleted member]

happy grinchiversary in the UK btw

View attachment 242869

Oh, it is also the anniversary in my island too.

 

[Lighteni]

happy grinchiversary in the UK btw

View attachment 242869

This reads like the opening text scroll in a found-footage horror movie.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh, it is also the anniversary in my island too.

wait you live on an island? O_O

 

[SnakeFighter64]

On the other hand, Reimu would be huge since she would be the first playable Indie.

The series has been going on for almost 30 years in Japan, you're insane to think people would "forget" her.

Yeah. People in Japan defiantly would not forget. But alot of people wouldn't know her outside of there.

What would be a smart thing to do, especially for Team Shanghai Alice, is if she was released alongside a collection of her games localized for the switch. Or a bunch of them going onto the eShop. I don't know how dialogue heavy these games are, but I assume it's doable.

 

[Deleted member]

wait you live on an island? O_O

Gran Canaria, yes.

 

[Shroob]

Yeah. People in Japan defiantly would not forget. But alot of people wouldn't know her outside of there.

What would be a smart thing to do, especially for Team Shanghai Alice, is if she was released alongside a collection of her games localized for the switch. Or a bunch of them going onto the eShop. I don't know how dialogue heavy these games are, but I assume it's doable.

There's like no dialogue at all. A bit pre-battle banter and some ending cutscene but the games are very light on plot.

 

[Idon]

Touhou's not that unpopular, though it is by far the most reliant on fan-content than any franchise in Smash, or well, any franchise on the planet, period. Practically the only reason its only method of travel is word-of-mouth.
Like, the two pieces of content people are most exposed to is
A fan animated Music Video with 24 Million views
and
A fan remix of a character theme with 15 million views
Compare that with, say, Terry Bogard's most popular video which is a Spanish retrospective of Terry's games (1.6 million).


Leaks aside, I don't find Touhou very llikely due to how it makes no attempt to appeal to anyone outside of Japan...

However, I do find that people tend to take that as a sign of it being completely unknown when that really shouldn't be the case. A sizable amount of people know about it, and it certainly is an audience that is quite insular and separated from the general gaming community. It really shouldn't be too far out of left field for Nintendo to appeal to that audience.

 

[Cosmic77]

On the other hand, Reimu would be huge since she would be the first playable Indie.

The series has been going on for almost 30 years in Japan, you're insane to think people would "forget" her.

If being the first Indie character is the most notable thing about Reimu, then there were plenty of more recognizable characters who could've accomplished the same thing.

And like I said before, people could barely talk about Terry the day he was revealed because all the attention was on a Mii costume. Like Reimu, Terry has existed for almost 30 years, and if he struggled to stay relevant in conversation, then I HIGHLY doubt Reimu would fare much better. She's not widely known in the West, and there's not much you can do to disprove that.