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[Scoliosis Jones]

I feel like Smash speculation needs context. Sure, there are characters that are talked about a lot on internet forums. Then there's the fact that through the sheer will of Smash fans, we got Everyone is Here!, Ridley, K.Rool, all in the same game. That's pretty damn impressive for a fanbase.

However, there's still the context of what this game has become. Counting alt costumes (of, like, different characters...Koopalings, Alph, Female PKMN Trainer, etc) we're almost at 100 characters in this game. Sakurai will never have the chance to go all out like this again, yadda yadda yadda. I've said it before obviously, but it's a context that I think we should think about.

In the minds of some speculators, Nintendo characters of any capacity seem to hold value among Nintendo fans (note: Nintendo fans) over any 3rd party pick, despite who they are, what series they come from, or what their gameplay abilities would be. This is well and good. However, it should be considered that while these characters may be considered "popular" or "likely" among Smash fans, the mere objectivity of their existence is something that we have to think about. Characters don't always get in just because they're first party and people want them.

It's an All-Star game. Most Nintendo wants, at this point, are side characters, or supporting cast members (Waluigi, Ashley, BWD, among others). Yes, there's fan demand. But let's compare this to what is available in 3rd party series...you've got main characters from some of the largest, and still relevant, gaming series. It's no secret that, to the gaming industry and community, these "bigger" picks make the bigger splash, and makes Smash an even bigger game.

It really depends on what direction Sakurai wants to close out Ultimate on.

If Sakurai listened entirely to fan demand on every single pick, Smash wouldn't be what it is today. It's an ironic statement, but I believe that to be true.

 

[Lamperouge]

Metal Shop X Wait, you made the Eggman sprite in your signature? That's awesome.

Great job on the colored version, too.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Well, Ladies, Gentlemen & Hedgedog ****, I've come to make to make a announcement.

Remember this this funny Eggman sprite I did before? This one?

Well guess what, I decided to color it all by myself, and this is what I got.

Think it could look better in some area, but hey, still learning, hope you enjoy nonethless. (Also, I choosed a blue background to represent the ever lasting nightmare Eggman is in, it's a artistic touch you could say)

Tagging @Taylor F , Guh-Huzzah! , Wademan94 ,@KarneraMythos ,@Dyllybirdy ,@JDCabrera ,@Tako Tuesday & @redfeatherraven .

Hope I didn't miss anyone.

Looks awesome, dude!

 

[Deleted member]

I’m coding and I want to cry. /s

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like Smash speculation needs context. Sure, there are characters that are talked about a lot on internet forums. Then there's the fact that through the sheer will of Smash fans, we got Everyone is Here!, Ridley, K.Rool, all in the same game. That's pretty damn impressive for a fanbase.

However, there's still the context of what this game has become. Counting alt costumes (of, like, different characters...Koopalings, Alph, Female PKMN Trainer, etc) we're almost at 100 characters in this game. Sakurai will never have the chance to go all out like this again, yadda yadda yadda. I've said it before obviously, but it's a context that I think we should think about.

In the minds of some speculators, Nintendo characters of any capacity seem to hold value among Nintendo fans (note: Nintendo fans) over any 3rd party pick, despite who they are, what series they come from, or what their gameplay abilities would be. This is well and good. However, it should be considered that while these characters may be considered "popular" or "likely" among Smash fans, the mere objectivity of their existence is something that we have to think about. Characters don't always get in just because they're first party and people want them.

It's an All-Star game. Most Nintendo wants, at this point, are side characters, or supporting cast members (Waluigi, Ashley, BWD, among others). Yes, there's fan demand. But let's compare this to what is available in 3rd party series...you've got main characters from some of the largest, and still relevant, gaming series. It's no secret that, to the gaming industry and community, these "bigger" picks make the bigger splash, and makes Smash an even bigger game.

It really depends on what direction Sakurai wants to close out Ultimate on.

If Sakurai listened entirely to fan demand on every single pick, Smash wouldn't be what it is today. It's an ironic statement, but I believe that to be true.

I completely agree with you.

Smash is a game that really benefits from picks nobody could see coming, with some times offering some fan picks. If Melee didn’t take the risk of adding characters that obscure in the West back then such as Marth or Roy or Ultimate didn’t add Hero, neither FE or DQ would be getting the great reputation they really deserve outside of Japan. The same may likely be applied to Terry too.
In the end, it isn’t just the Smash community who plays Smash. I know many people not invested at all in the game as the people I talk with on the internet who really want to try all of the additions a chance, at times even inspiring some to give their respective series a chance.

These picks so far have felt really balanced and nicely chosen in my point of view, since they are picks who really benefit from getting in Smash in general terms.

 

[BlueMonk]

I feel like Smash speculation needs context. Sure, there are characters that are talked about a lot on internet forums. Then there's the fact that through the sheer will of Smash fans, we got Everyone is Here!, Ridley, K.Rool, all in the same game. That's pretty damn impressive for a fanbase.

However, there's still the context of what this game has become. Counting alt costumes (of, like, different characters...Koopalings, Alph, Female PKMN Trainer, etc) we're almost at 100 characters in this game. Sakurai will never have the chance to go all out like this again, yadda yadda yadda. I've said it before obviously, but it's a context that I think we should think about.

In the minds of some speculators, Nintendo characters of any capacity seem to hold value among Nintendo fans (note: Nintendo fans) over any 3rd party pick, despite who they are, what series they come from, or what their gameplay abilities would be. This is well and good. However, it should be considered that while these characters may be considered "popular" or "likely" among Smash fans, the mere objectivity of their existence is something that we have to think about. Characters don't always get in just because they're first party and people want them.

It's an All-Star game. Most Nintendo wants, at this point, are side characters, or supporting cast members (Waluigi, Ashley, BWD, among others). Yes, there's fan demand. But let's compare this to what is available in 3rd party series...you've got main characters from some of the largest, and still relevant, gaming series. It's no secret that, to the gaming industry and community, these "bigger" picks make the bigger splash, and makes Smash an even bigger game.

It really depends on what direction Sakurai wants to close out Ultimate on.

If Sakurai listened entirely to fan demand on every single pick, Smash wouldn't be what it is today. It's an ironic statement, but I believe that to be true.

I agree, this is also why I wouldn't want Geno over one of Square's more famous characters

Personally I wouldn't object to a 1st party like waluigi, but this pass has really made me appreciate all the franchises that smash can bring together

 

[Metal Shop X]

Metal Shop X Wait, you made the Eggman sprite in your signature? That's awesome.

Great job on the colored version, too.

Yup, all of them were done by me.

That Eggman sprite date from some time ago, but since I finally understand the true power of LAYERS, I decided to give it a shot and color that sprite to see how well my Clip Studio skills could translate to Aseprite, and what do you know, it went pretty well!

Also, if the image uploader wasn't broken, I would show you Eggman Sans edit, but alas, you gotta wait on that one.

 

[Opossum]

(Also in which universe Waluigi is a notable character?)

Bruh. Bruh.

He's a major recurring Mario character. By virtue of that alone he's more recognizable than like 80% of the current roster. How is he not notable?

 

[Slime Master]

This is one heck of a hot take

<snip>

I'm sorta late on this but this is kind of a bad faith version of thoughts I've had for a while, so maybe if I'm misguided someone can point me in the right direction.
My issue with complicated inputs is they add an unnecessary execution barrier mostly to comboing, since most people can figure out how to get the inputs raw without too much practice. So consider: player A and player B. Player A has practiced neutral, spacing, and footsies and gotten great at those, but in exchange knows only rudimentary combos. Player B spends most of their time grinding out input combos, and can pull them off consistently, but they are not as good at neutral. So if player A and player B fight, they both have reasonable chances to win because player A will probably win more exchanges, but player B needs to win fewer exchanges to win the match.

On the surface there's no issue with this, I assume both players spent roughly the same amount of time grinding out their specific skills, they just spent it a little differently. Where I take issue is the fact that comboing is an inherently less interactive part of the game, so player B is winning by interacting less than what player A would be, despite them being roughly equal in skill. So player B gained a non-trivial edge over the player who was better at the more interactive and thus more competitive aspect of the game.

I should probably also note that I don't think combos themselves are inherently problematic, but I think putting too large of a barrier on them seems like an issue. IDK though, I don't play traditional fighters so some of this might be born from misconception.

 

[BlueMonk]

Bruh. Bruh.

He's a major recurring Mario character. By virtue of that alone he's more recognizable than like 80% of the current roster. How is he not notable?

I hate when people write off Waluigi as being "just a spin off character" despite spin offs being such a massive part of the Mario franchise

 

[Deleted member]

I hate when people write off Waluigi as being "just a spin off character" despite spin offs being such a massive part of the Mario franchise

I’d reckon a lot of people would not know who a lot of Mario characters are had it not been for the spinoffs. Theyre a pretty big deal as far as Mario goes.

 

[Deleted member]

I hate when people write off Waluigi as being "just a spin off character" despite spin offs being such a massive part of the Mario franchise

We already got Daisy at this point so why not Waluigi for Mario (you know besides Geno)?

And no, I don't accept that Super Mario Land is a mainline title and should make Daisy a main character because she's not important enough to be in a main game since. Daisy's a spinoff character to most people, so let's not pretend otherwise.

E: Oh yeah. Dr. Mario's a spinoff character too

 

[Lamperouge]

I feel like Waluigi's inclusion in Smash isn't a matter of "if", but rather "when". He's had a lot of demand and Sakurai's even received threats over not including him in Ultimate...which is something that I don't condone AT ALL but that only goes to show that he's definitely got a passionate fanbase. Being a recurring character in Mario spinoffs helps his case a bit, too.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I feel like Smash speculation needs context. Sure, there are characters that are talked about a lot on internet forums. Then there's the fact that through the sheer will of Smash fans, we got Everyone is Here!, Ridley, K.Rool, all in the same game. That's pretty damn impressive for a fanbase.

However, there's still the context of what this game has become. Counting alt costumes (of, like, different characters...Koopalings, Alph, Female PKMN Trainer, etc) we're almost at 100 characters in this game. Sakurai will never have the chance to go all out like this again, yadda yadda yadda. I've said it before obviously, but it's a context that I think we should think about.

In the minds of some speculators, Nintendo characters of any capacity seem to hold value among Nintendo fans (note: Nintendo fans) over any 3rd party pick, despite who they are, what series they come from, or what their gameplay abilities would be. This is well and good. However, it should be considered that while these characters may be considered "popular" or "likely" among Smash fans, the mere objectivity of their existence is something that we have to think about. Characters don't always get in just because they're first party and people want them.

It's an All-Star game. Most Nintendo wants, at this point, are side characters, or supporting cast members (Waluigi, Ashley, BWD, among others). Yes, there's fan demand. But let's compare this to what is available in 3rd party series...you've got main characters from some of the largest, and still relevant, gaming series. It's no secret that, to the gaming industry and community, these "bigger" picks make the bigger splash, and makes Smash an even bigger game.

It really depends on what direction Sakurai wants to close out Ultimate on.

If Sakurai listened entirely to fan demand on every single pick, Smash wouldn't be what it is today. It's an ironic statement, but I believe that to be true.

We seriously reached the point where fan favorite picks are considered a bad thing now?

Frankly speaking I disagree with your idea that Smash additions should be purely pragmatic and dependent only on sales and relevancy, that's never how Sakurai and the series worked. We literally just got Banjo as a character over Steve and Master Chief, Banjo had absolutely no reason to be added to Smash besides fan service, he is a character that is only known by Nintendo fans and would only be enjoyed by Nintendo fans, and yet look where we are. Banjo got in and is celebrated by everyone, news outlets went crazy over his inclusion. He has generated buzz around the gaming community. You might claim that Nintendo fans are close minded for not preferring third party picks over first party picks, but frankly I see it the other way as well. I see people completely believing that Nintendo has no viable or good first party picks left, and I find these people to be as ignorant as those who believe we shouldn't get third party characters.

Let me bring up Waluigi. Not only is this a character that got memed to death (even to this day) over not getting included in Smash. This is a character whose inclusion would change how we view the series, he would break the rule of assist trophies not being promoted in the same game, that in itself will generate hype. This is a character that is known by a lot of households that know Nintendo. This is a character that news outlets talked about when it came to the controversy over his assist trophy reveal. This is a character that would easily be as big, if not bigger, than the DLC additions we just got.

I don't see why we can't get both third party characters and first party characters as DLC. There's clearly a lot of viable and decent picks from both sides. Do I believe the rest of the DLC will be entirely first party? No. But I do believe we'll get at least one or two Nintendo-core picks.

 

[Wademan94]

Concerning the whole Waluigi thing, it doesn’t really help that the only people affiliated with Nintendo that seem to actually care about him are Camelot and Next Level Games.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Imagine ordering a McDonalds plain cheeseburger and they add literally every topping on.

 

[Deleted member]

Imagine ordering a McDonalds plain cheeseburger and they add literally every topping on.

At that point, you return it and ask for them to make another one.

 

[Lamperouge]

Imagine ordering McDonalds

See, there's your problem.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

At that point, you return it and ask for them to make another one.

Eh, I just rubbed it off. Tasted horrible, though.

 

[Deleted member]

Eh, I just rubbed it off. Tasted horrible, though.

I mean, that's why you make them make another one.

 

[Wademan94]

See, there's your problem.

My roommate’s friend ordered from there recently a huge order for him and his girlfriend and they botched the order up so badly you’d think they mixed up with someone else’s order.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I mean, that's why you make them make another one.

We had already arrived back home. We weren't going all the way back.

 

[Deleted member]

We had already arrived back home. We weren't going all the way back.

Ah okay.

 

[Wademan94]

We had already arrived back home. We weren't going all the way back.

That’s why I prefer eating at the restaurant or picking it up on foot. Granted I don’t have a car regardless...

 

[TheMightyP]

I've only ever seen one person say this

You'd be surprised. I mean, Twitter has a decent amount of these chums.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

If Sakurai listened entirely to fan demand on every single pick, Smash wouldn't be what it is today. It's an ironic statement, but I believe that to be true.

And if he paid no mind to fan demand, Smash wouldn’t be what it is today. Snake probably would’ve been the one exception to the all Nintendo crossover. Ultimate wouldn’t have all the returning veterans, Ridley, K. Rool, or Banjo-Kazooie. We’d still be as slow as Brawl as wells

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

We seriously reached the point where fan favorite picks are considered a bad thing now?

Frankly speaking I disagree with your idea that Smash additions should be purely pragmatic and dependent only on sales and relevancy, that's never how Sakurai and the series worked. We literally just got Banjo as a character over Steve and Master Chief, Banjo had absolutely no reason to be added to Smash besides fan service, he is a character that is only known by Nintendo fans and would only be enjoyed by Nintendo fans, and yet look where we are. Banjo got in and is celebrated by everyone, news outlets went crazy over his inclusion. He has generated buzz around the gaming community. You might claim that Nintendo fans are close minded for not preferring third party picks over first party picks, but frankly I see it the other way as well. I see people completely believing that Nintendo has no viable or good first party picks left, and I find these people to be as ignorant as those who believe we shouldn't get third party characters.

Let me bring up Waluigi. Not only is this a character that got memed to death (even to this day) over not getting included in Smash. This is a character whose inclusion would change how we view the series, he would break the rule of assist trophies not being promoted in the same game, that in itself will generate hype. This is a character that is known by a lot of households that know Nintendo. This is a character that news outlets talked about when it came to the controversy over his assist trophy reveal. This is a character that would easily be as big, if not bigger, than the DLC additions we just got.

I don't see why we can't get both third party characters and first party characters as DLC. There's clearly a lot of viable and decent picks from both sides. Do I believe the rest of the DLC will be entirely first party? No. But I do believe we'll get at least one or two Nintendo-core picks.

I literally never said that "fan favorite" picks are a "bad thing". Not once. I also never said that picks should be "purely pragmatic" and dependent on "sales and relevancy". Not once. I said that, "you've got main characters from some of the largest, and still relevant, gaming series." This is entirely different from saying "Smash additions should be purely pragmatic and dependant ONLY (never said that) on sales and relevancy". That's mischaracterizing what I said.

Waluigi could absolutely get in. He has fan demand. However, the context for which I don't see it happening isn't because he doesn't matter or something. It's because he is literally already in the game. He isn't a playable character, but Sakurai has shown throughout Smash's history that he views the position a character is given as...relatively solid, within the same game. Sure, Mewtwo and Lucas had their original trophies in Wii U, but that simply isn't the same thing as an Assist Trophy. We've never had an AT upgrade in-game.

The other reason I base my thoughts on 1st parties vs 3rd parties as DLC is that with Sakurai looking to, "expand on the record as much as he can" with the DLC, adding in characters that are not only already in Smash, but from a series that already has a playable character on the roster (or a boss, for example), does not expand the crossover record. Not to mention, if the 2nd batch of newcomers is a Season 2, structured similarly to Fighter Pass 1, then the additions will once again run into the situation of, "What spirits do they bring? What stage? What music?". Characters from series with immense amounts of content already in Smash will struggle with this. Series that don't have any content in Smash, will not struggle with this.

I simply don't believe that Sakurai will upgrade AT's or Spirits when he has the option to go all in on new characters. If he does, then that's his prerogative. I'm not the director, it's his game. But with this being an opportunity that will likely never be available again, I would think he'd go for a strategy that brings in the biggest names, especially when effectively most if not all major Nintendo characters are playable or in Smash in some form.

And if he paid no mind to fan demand, Smash wouldn’t be what it is today. Snake probably would’ve been the one exception to the all Nintendo crossover. Ultimate wouldn’t have all the returning veterans, Ridley, K. Rool, or Banjo-Kazooie. We’d still be as slow as Brawl as wells

I didn't imply he shouldn't have listened to fan demand. I actually implied the opposite earlier in the comment when I mentioned the amazing things the Smash fanbase has done like, "Everyone is Here!, Ridley, and K.Rool".

We're in agreement here.

EDIT: Mods, please combine my two comments! Thanks!

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

I didn't imply he shouldn't have listened to fan demand. I actually implied the opposite earlier in the comment when I mentioned the amazing things the Smash fanbase has done like, "Everyone is Here!, Ridley, and K.Rool".

We're in agreement here.

EDIT: Mods, please combine my two comments! Thanks!

May wanna delete that and edit your previous post.

Edit: Nevermind. Seems ya got it covered.

 

[OsirisOda]

Wow! Five years here on Smashboards. I sure feel old.

 

[Deleted member]

If I actually last a year on this hell of a site, then I don’t know what I’ll do. /s

 

[TheMightyP]

What if Sir Arthur from Ghost n Goblins was a DLC character. Think about it:
NES icon
Also was on the SNES
Notorious in gaming for being amongst the hardest games ever made
Capcom Rep
Was in MvC


That's all. I don't really want him in, but it wouldn't be out the question.

Or, at least his armor for a Mii costume.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Soooo... I'm planning to finally get myself a Switch as well as a copy of Ultimate within the next few weeks...

Do y'all have any other games you'd recommend to me?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Soooo... I'm gonna planning to finally get myself a Switch as well as a copy of Ultimate within the next few weeks...

Do y'all have any Switch games you'd recommend to me?

Fire Emblem is a must have for the Switch tbh

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Soooo... I'm gonna planning to finally get myself a Switch within the next few weeks...

Ultimate is a buy no matter what

That being said, do y'all have any other games you'd reccomend to me?

Oh yeah, there's plenty of great games.

Depending on your budget (or what genres you like):
Super Mario Odyssey
Three Houses (Trust me, it's great)
Breath of the Wild
Mario Kart 8
Super Mario Maker 2
Xenoblade Chronicles 2
Splatoon 2

Off the top of my head, those are some of the best games I have for my Switch!

 

[Deleted member]

Soooo... I'm planning to finally get myself a Switch as well as a copy of Ultimate within the next few weeks...

Do y'all have any other games you'd recommend to me?

I know everyone and their grandma is gonna say this, but Mario Odyssey is a must have.

 

[Bee Card]

Soooo... I'm planning to finally get myself a Switch as well as a copy of Ultimate within the next few weeks...

Do y'all have any other games you'd recommend to me?

Do you had the wii u ?

 

[Wademan94]

Soooo... I'm planning to finally get myself a Switch as well as a copy of Ultimate within the next few weeks...

Do y'all have any other games you'd recommend to me?

What genres of games do you like or want to try out?

 

[Deleted member]

Soooo... I'm gonna planning to finally get myself a Switch as well as a copy of Ultimate within the next few weeks...

Do y'all have any Switch games you'd recommend to me?

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 if you like JRPGs, Mario Kart cause it's Mario Kart, Breath of the Wild because it's a fantastic game and one of the best Zelda games
imo, Super Mario Odyssey cause it's an amazing game and platformer, Mario Maker 2 cause it's really fun from what I've played and finally the Phoenix Wright trilogy cause those games are fantastic.

 

[Noipoi]

Soooo... I'm planning to finally get myself a Switch as well as a copy of Ultimate within the next few weeks...

Do y'all have any other games you'd recommend to me?

Breath of the Wild
Splatoon 2
Mario Odyssey
Mario Kart 8
Mario Maker 2
Three Houses
Pokémon Sword and Shield

 

[TheMightyP]

Soooo... I'm planning to finally get myself a Switch as well as a copy of Ultimate within the next few weeks...

Do y'all have any other games you'd recommend to me?

Mario Odyssey and BoTW are the agreed must haves for the system. I would throw in Splatoon 2 as well, but I'm biased. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is the perfect party game, alongside Smash. Assuming from your pfp, you might want invest in Fire Emblem, and maybe Xenoblade 2.

Edit: Mario Maker 2 also is a really fun single player experience with endless replayability.