So...which of the pokemon does Kirby destroy the worst?

[MK26]

Personally, my money is on Ivysaur.









Well, the Kirby board is discussing Pokemon Trainer this week in their matchup thread.
Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195032

We're trying to create a full guide, centred on:

Character: (Duh)
Difficulty rating: (Your rating of the match)
Overview: (What general strategies does this character employ against a Kirby? Does he camp? Go all out offensive?)
Pros+Cons: (What does this character have going for him? Weight? Speed? How about things we can take advantage of?)
Watch out for: (This character's favourite moves and when he'll use them)
How to win: (What Kirby needs to do to beat this character)
Spit out or Swallow?: (Do we want to copy his ability or keep the inhale for Kirbycides/under-stage spits?)
What NOT to do: (If you want to lose, go right ahead)
Stages: (Which to counterpick? Which to avoid?)
Synopsis: (Tl;Dr version)

But we'd really like to know preferred stage counterpicks and bans, especially against the in-game counterpicking that PT provides.

Thanks for all your help.

And btw, our present mtchup guide lists Ivysaur as 70-30 our advantage, charizard 60-40 ours, and squirtle neutral. It's old and subject to charnge, but it's the best we've had until this week

 

[Bestiarius]

My money would be on Ivy being the worst. I love him, but the poor boy is not good in this matchup. I mean, why give the enemy Bullet Seed? However, I do disagree with the Zard numbers. I frequently destroy my friend's Kirby with my Zard. However, If Kirby can get Flamethrower, I will say that it is tough for Zard to pull off any good attacks, but even then I think it would be about neutral.

 

[Onxy]

I see it as Ivysaur being the one with the advantage. Kirby has little range against Ivy, is not a quick mover on ground or air, limited approach, and floaty. Kirby can mess Ivy up a bit with his good zoning abillity and such. And is able to abuse Ivy's crappy aerial speed. Although everything I described about Kirby, Ivy also has (except the range part), it's just that Ivysaur is great against all of these types of characters, due to her quick, long ranged attacks, and just her aerials all around are great for these sort of things. I could describe more, but IDK how many people are even going to respond to this..

 

[Steeler]

kirby also has crappy aerial speed.

kirby detests approaching through ivy bairs.

 

[The Derrit]

kirby also has crappy aerial speed.

kirby detests approaching through ivy bairs.

i hate kirby he's an annoying little ***** but yes this is true

problem being he doesn't get hit by razor leaf like ever cause he can just duck them

 

[Bestiarius]

The main reaason I don't use Ivy is because my friend knows my game to well and times his spotdodges great. Plus, Kirby seems to be able to spam smashes against Ivy and get away with it. That gives me so much trouble. The hitboxen stay out forever, and the lag is too small for Ivy to do much about it.
Btw, thederrit, what if the leaves go down? Can't they hit him then?

 

[Onxy]

Spamming smashes? Couldn't you just grab, after them?

 

[Bestiarius]

His forward smash actually would always poke me shielding, but, like I said, he knows my game WAY too well.

 

[Asdioh]

His forward smash actually would always poke me shielding, but, like I said, he knows my game WAY too well.

That's probably the problem then. Kirby's smashes (especially fsmash, which is his best one) are ridiculously easy to punish if you shield (preferably powershield) in time.

I always thought Kirby utterly dominated all 3 Pokemon, but I think my problem is that all the PTs I've played were utter crap.

Can someone good PLEASE send me a PM to play some games on wifi? I'll be leaving tomorrow and won't be back until Jan 2-3, just so you know. I'd like to play at least one good PT today if possible :O

 

[Bomber7]

To be honest I cant think of who Kirby could destroy the worst.... Squirtle has beter speed and a wicked back drop. Ivy have razor leaf and an awsome Nair along with other good aerials. Charz has flame thrower, rock smash(ftw) and i good Fsmash. all of those factors out weigh Kirby when it comes to him owning us bady cuz Kirby if floaty.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Kirby destroys all pkmn! Lol. I think the one that stands the most chance is ivysaur.

 

[Zephramrill]

Uhh Kirby and squirtle is 55:45 Kirby because Kirby can kill earlier.

Kirby and Char is like 55:45 Kirby

Kirby and Ivy is like 60:40 Kirby

Overall its prolly 60:40 Kirby

 

[Onxy]

I don't see Kirby having an advantage against Charizard and Ivysaur. Against Squirtle, yeah.

 

[Fearmy]

ugh... this is really a situational battle.... Kirby can own zard with BS.... but that depends if you let him suck you up......

 

[Phoenix812]

I'd have to say Squirtle is the one who would have the worst disadvantage. Mainly because Kirby has more killing potential than Squirtle. However, his air game isn't as good. Forward smash always seems to be a problem when I fight Kirbies. I'd give this match a solid 40:60. Squirtle with 40 and 60 for Kirby.

Ivysaur is another story. Kirby can be knocked out faster than he would against Squirtle and Kirby doesn't exactly have any very good projectiles such as Razor Leaf. Ivysaur's forward smash has good range and his up smash is DEADLY if it contacts. However, this is a situation in where a Kirby can just edge-hog Ivysaur, which can spell trouble for him. Ivysaur also has Bullet Seed which [if used at the right time] can cause a load of damage to the opponent. This is an attack I recommend for a Kirby who wants to stand a little more of a chance as Ivysaur can take the same kind of damage from a Kirby who uses Bullet Seed. Overall, the match up would get a 60:40. Ivysaur with the 60 and Kirby with the 40.

Charizard will have a different kind of disadvantage than Squirtle. Charizard's disadvantage will be his size and air game. His air game isn't as good as Kirby's, making him a sitting dragon in the air and his size will make him an easy target. However, Charizard can also easily kill Kirby on the ground if he lands Flamethrower, Rock Smash, or a forward smash. Charizard's other attacks can also inflict a lot of damage to Kirby if he doesn't watch out. Flamethrower is an attack I recommend sucking up if you want to try to even the playing field a little more. I give this match a 45:55. Charizard with the 45 and Kirby with the 55.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Kirby beats all 3 pokemon. He gimps Ivysaur badly and can steal Ivysaur's bullet seed power, his best move.
Kirby KO's squirtle's early and can keep up to Squirtle's fast attack speed since Kirby also has quick attacks and good combos. Kirby can steal squirtles power and use it against him, making Squirtle trying to recover back onto the stage preactically impossible.
Kirby can combo Charizard very badly and can also use Charizard's flamethrower against him.

I'd give Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard 40:60 Kirby. Kirby wins.

 

[Onxy]

You know you have to take it from us by force, right?

So what if Kirby can gimp Ivy. Everybody can gimp Ivysaur badly.

How does it make it impossible for Squirtle to recover? Can we keep the theorycraft to a minimum?

 

[Bestiarius]

My friend says Squirtle, but I think he's got compensation, like his aerial movement and quickness. Btw, Kirbycide on any of them SUCKS!!!!!!!!!

 

[MK26]

Lemme get this straight...the overall PT matchup rating is the average of the best 2 individual pokemons' ratings, rounded down, right? Ex.:

Say squirtle is 45 vs. Kirby
Say ivy is 40
Say charizard is 55

Average = (45+55)/2 = 50-50 aka even

But

Say squirtle is 40
Say ivy is 30
Say charizard is 45

Average = (40+45)/2 = 42.5 (40-60) aka Adv Kirby

Yes? No? (Btw those are my best- and worst-case scenarios for the matchup ratings, from a PT main's view)

Bcuz i can?

btw join the discussion on our matchup thread plox...the discussion is dying

 

[The Derrit]

Kirby beats all 3 pokemon. He gimps Ivysaur badly and can steal Ivysaur's bullet seed power, his best move.
Kirby KO's squirtle's early and can keep up to Squirtle's fast attack speed since Kirby also has quick attacks and good combos. Kirby can steal squirtles power and use it against him, making Squirtle trying to recover back onto the stage preactically impossible.
Kirby can combo Charizard very badly and can also use Charizard's flamethrower against him.

I'd give Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard 40:60 Kirby. Kirby wins.

Aren't you the same guy who came up with the brilliant PT strategy of switching pokemon during invincibility frames after dying?

Which is of course funny cause its impossible. Your PT experience does not impess me and your comments do not mean much of anything.

 

[Zephramrill]

Wow derrit, pretty harsh for someone with no tournament placings yourself.

 

[Bestiarius]

Kirby beats all 3 pokemon. He gimps Ivysaur badly and can steal Ivysaur's bullet seed power, his best move.
Kirby KO's squirtle's early and can keep up to Squirtle's fast attack speed since Kirby also has quick attacks and good combos. Kirby can steal squirtles power and use it against him, making Squirtle trying to recover back onto the stage preactically impossible.
Kirby can combo Charizard very badly and can also use Charizard's flamethrower against him.

I'd give Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard 40:60 Kirby. Kirby wins.

You, sir, are, how can I put this, out of your mind. You're views on the pokemon seem to come from people who absolutely sucked with PT that you were able to destroy.

First, Squirtle. Kirby simply can't keep up with him. If you play aggainst someone who is close to decent, let alone good, their Squirtle will not hold still long enough for you to do jack. Yeah, you can hurt him, but not as badly as he'll hurt you. On the ground, his jab and ftilt come out as least as fast, if not faster, than anything Kirby has. In the air, it's a nightmare for Kirby because of Squirtle's insane combo ability with his lagless aerials. before you know it, you'll be in the 130 range, and then all it takes a grab and dthrow and you're gone. Oh, and about stealing his special move, don't. You won't be able to prevent his recovery and your suck is better and more useful.

Charizard. Yeah, you can steal the flame, but that only means that now you both have it. You do not all of a sudden magically become better than him. If Charizard lands a sweet spotted Rock Smash on you, which isn't all that hard, it chains right into a front smash. That kills Kirby at very low percentages. Charzard gets rid of Kirby very easily. Kirby is so light. Charzard has some very quick attacks, i.e., dtilt, that can kill Kirby quickly.

Finally, Ivysaur. Yeah, he's gimpable, but you have to get him off the stage first. Bullet Seed is a great equalizer and punishing move, not to mention the various poison bulb manifestations that can easily kill the pink puff. Yes, Ivy is the worst against Kirby, but a front smash or up air will kill Kirby at around 100.

Now, don't get me wrong, it's a fairly close matchup. But you are seriously mistaken if you honestly believe that Kirby has an advantage over all three pokemon. At best, for Kirby, I'd say it's at least 55-45 in favor of PT.

 

[Onxy]

I'm still standing with Ivysaur - the strongest - and Squirtle - the weakest.

 

[Bestiarius]

I'd agree about Ivy, but I do better with Zard than Squirtle, though I can use both to beat my best friend's Kirby, which is no easy task.

 

[Onxy]

I would go into more detail, but there is so much Ivy hate on this board, that it is just insane. Lmao.

 

[Zephramrill]

Bestiarius wtf? PT doesnt have a good matchup on kirby, its 60:40 Kirby tard. Please dont acknowledge any PT user with less than 500 posts, or with a join date of after summer 2008

To onxy: What u need to understand is, most PT users have only 1 good pokemon, some have 2, and few have 3. Ivy is the one that the least amount of people have a good one of, hence the lameness. I believe Ivy is the best of the 3 in a lot of matchups and tbh this is one of them. But its still marginal because kirby gimps like a fiend, 5 jumps and a footstool to dair combo that is an OHKO.

Kirby combos char to hell and back, kills squirtle at like 90, and has one of the best offstage chasing games. Get *****. Gonzo combo ftw

 

[Onxy]

Bestiarius wtf? PT doesnt have a good matchup on kirby, its 60:40 Kirby tard. Please dont acknowledge any PT user with less than 500 posts, or with a join date of after summer 2008

That kind of attitude deserves to be on people's ignore lists. I know this wasn't directed at me, but you sure as heck are going on mine.

 

[Zephramrill]

You, sir, are, how can I put this, out of your mind. You're views on the pokemon seem to come from people who absolutely sucked with PT that you were able to destroy.

Let`s keep the theorycraft to a minimum please.

First, Squirtle. Kirby simply can't keep up with him.
He doesnt have to, he outranges and outprioritizes him.If you play aggainst someone who is close to decent, let alone good, their Squirtle will not hold still long enough for you to do jack.Again keep the theorycraft down. Yeah, you can hurt him, but not as badly as he'll hurt you. On the ground, his jab and ftilt come out as least as fast, if not faster, than anything Kirby has. Wrong. Besides, if squirtle stays on the ground Kirby generally outranges him there.In the air, it's a nightmare for Kirby because of Squirtle's insane combo ability with his lagless aerials.Kirby`s bair is like squirtles on steroids. before you know it, you'll be in the 130 range, and then all it takes a grab and dthrow and you're gone.Before you know it youre at 70 and all it takes is an fsmash and youre gone.... Oh, and about stealing his special move, don't. You won't be able to prevent his recovery and your suck is better and more useful.good idea.

Charizard. Yeah, you can steal the flame, but that only means that now you both have it. You do not all of a sudden magically become better than him.True. If Charizard lands a sweet spotted Rock Smash on you, which isn't all that hardFalse., it chains right into a front smash.No it doesnt.That kills Kirby at very low percentages.It could Charzard gets rid of Kirby very easily. Kirby is so light. Charzard has some very quick attacks, i.e., dtilt, that can kill Kirby quickly.Kirby has a 0-60 combo on char thats basically inescapble, he kills char at 115 with fsmash.

Finally, Ivysaur. Yeah, he's gimpable, but you have to get him off the stage first. Bullet Seed is a great equalizer and punishing movenot really, it shouldnt do more than 30 damage to a kirby with good DI., not to mention the various poison bulb manifestations that can easily kill the pink puffdunno about easily. Yes, Ivy is the worst against Kirby, but a front smash or up air will kill Kirby at around 100.Ivy is prolly the best vs Kirby minus the whole inability to trade hits offstage with a guy whos gonna chase you everytime.

Now, don't get me wrong, it's a fairly close matchup. But you are seriously mistaken if you honestly believe that Kirby has an advantage over all three pokemon. At best, for Kirby, I'd say it's at least 55-45 in favor of PT.
60:40 Kirby

 

[Zephramrill]

That kind of attitude deserves to be on people's ignore lists. I know this wasn't directed at me, but you sure as heck are going on mine.

Well I havent seen anything good come out of any of them so i`m generalizing until then for the benefit of the kirbys. And if it takes one comment for you to label someone as ignorant, perhaps you should get your hypocritedar fixed.

 

[Onxy]

Well I havent seen anything good come out of any of them so i`m generalizing until then for the benefit of the kirbys. And if it takes one comment for you to label someone as ignorant, perhaps you should get your hypocritedar fixed.

You know that was directed at you, right? I'm saying that I don't like YOUR attitude, zeph.

 

[Zephramrill]

Yeah I knew that, how is my comment unclear. I'm telling you that if you're gonna ignore me after seeing one comment that makes you infinitely more ignorant than my comment. Besides, whats wrong with my attitude. Im realistic, they arent. I go to tournies and place well with PT, they don't. I regularly play with the best players in my region, they don't. I get no slack around here and I am labelled as negative when IRL and Typh say the same things but theyre the heroes of PT. (and I should be a PTBRer by now.)

 

[Bestiarius]

Zeph, you can flame me all you want, all I know is that I play a good Kirby main almost every day. What I said is from personal experience, and I have many battles behind every statement I made. Btw, what 0-60 combo on Zard? Tell me about this, cause I have never heard of it. And just because I have fewer than 500 posts and formally joined in the summer of 08 does not mean that I am a noob at Brawl. I simply made an account this fall, but I have kept up wit the boards pretty much since Brawl came out in America. And post count doesn't mean squat. Anyone can make 500 idiotic posts, both me and you included.

 

[Onxy]

No, I didn't like the fact that you felt the need to call someone who voiced their opinion a "tard." You also said that we should ignore people that didn't fall into your criteria. This has nothing to do with ignorance, but I just don't like your elitist attitude, zeph.

 

[Zephramrill]

THATS THE POINT BESTIARUS. You shouldnt base matchup threads vs playing your friend, it should be based off the characters assets. I have one of the best Kirby players in the world in my region but I don't base my opinion off how he owns. The combo is called the gonzo combo, if you havent heard of it, the kriby player you are talking about cant be that great.

His opinion was wrong, im not gonna call him Einstien. Excuse my ignorance related to the post count and join date. But honestly it wasn't that baseless.

 

[Bestiarius]

Thanks Onxy/Onyx, or whatever you would like to be called, for ticking up for me, but if I say something absolutely idiotic, I should proably be told taht my Captain Nimrod is showing. I just spoke from experience, so if he disagrees with me, so be it. But I agree, Zeph. If you disagree with somebody, disagree, but flaming isn't the only option.

 

[Bestiarius]

Ok then, Zeph, but I know Kirby's and PT's attributes, but my opinion still stands. I honestly think it is a close matchup, but definitely not 60-40 Kirby.
Edit: And Zeph, I looked up the Gonzo, and he never says it works on Zard, though it probably does, but he only ever shows it getting 35, not 60. One sweet spotted Rock Smash does 10% more than that, and it really isn't all that hard, despite what you might think. Plus, Zard DOES NOT die at 115 from a Kirby fsmash unless the Zard doesn't have a clue what DI is.

 

[MK26]

Whoa whoa whoa. Lotsa hate around here. Calm down pplz. And nobody's answered my question yet.

Ok then, Zeph, but I know Kirby's and PT's attributes, but my opinion still stands. I honestly think it is a close matchup, but definitely not 60-40 Kirby.
Edit: And Zeph, I looked up the Gonzo, and he never says it works on Zard, though it probably does, but he only ever shows it getting 35, not 60. One sweet spotted Rock Smash does 10% more than that, and it really isn't all that hard, despite what you might think. Plus, Zard DOES NOT die at 115 from a Kirby fsmash unless the Zard doesn't have a clue what DI is.

60 is a bit of an exaggeration, but Kirby's throw combos arent really set in stone - you have the Gonzo (f-throw, u-air, reverse u-tilt, b-air) which can do 38% (i think), but Kirbys improvise alot with their throws. A simple D-throw chain can get an opponent to 60 or more with a little luck and good tech/DI chasing.

And about the F-smash comment...its true. I've killed a MK at 60 with an uncharged F-smash at the edge of Final D.

 

[Ryusuta]

I agree with Phoenix. Squirtle is definitely the worst against Kirby, no question. Ivysaur has kill power, a projectile, and his back air wall against Kirby, so he's definitely NOT the worst.

 

[Bestiarius]

Maestro, all due respect, but MK weighs ALOT less than Charizard. I don't think that Kirby should ever kill Zard at 115 with an uncharged fsmash unless the Zard doesn't use any DI. And yeah, sorry that this did kinda turn into a hatefest. My comment kinda started it, so Zaeph, Onyx, and everybody else, I'm sorry.

 

[Steeler]

this is a pretty even matchup.