So, what nerfs are we gonna see?

[Supermodel From Paris]

:/

Final Smash is obvious... but it probably wont' end there

 

[pichuthedk]

I am kinda wondering if downsmash although it already is super short will be chainable via the footstool implant (granted down smash stun time will have to last longer via higher % in order for this to be a possible).

Maybe her up b distance will be shortened a bit in the air since down b -> jump -> up b seems a little bit like overkill.

 

[Wronskian-Physics]

Hopefully none. If there is one nerf, I'd say her uptilt is a little too good at breaking the smashball, hehe.

Zero suit seems like a decent character who's up there but not broken. If this is about the Grand finals of the invitational, I would like to say the problem does not lie with ZeRo or ZZS, but with the fact that the game isn't combo-y, still promotes defensive play and oh yeah. Kirby sucks nads like he does in Melee and Brawl. :/

 

[staindgrey]

Sakurai seems to be taking the demo results with a grain of salt. Which he should. According to him and his dedicated testers, Samus is the best one right now. Not Zero Suit. Just Samus, the character that Hugs passed on. I really think they aren't assessing these characters well enough.

Regardless, as W-P mentioned, the game thus far still looks like it's actively trying to avoid any sort of combos or reliable chains. All signs point toward that result. It worries me. Brawl combo videos were always the most boring to watch.

 

[KingBroly]

That's not what he said. He said Samus was the strongest. We don't exactly know what that means. It could just mean attack strength and not overall playability. Also keep in mind that Nintendo and Sakurai viewed ZSS as weaker than Samus in Brawl and...yeah, lol @ that.

 

[Ryan.]

Well so far all we've seen is buffs I think. :D

 

[himemiya]

I'll play her in smash 4 regardless of nerfs because no more up-b tether. I can see down smash being nerf and maybe jabs/dash having more endlag.

 

[KingBroly]

I'll play her in smash 4 regardless of nerfs because no more up-b tether. I can see down smash being nerf and maybe jabs/dash having more endlag.

I think the new Up+B is a nerf, to be honest. It's harder to hit people with it, and while it may offer a modicum of variety to Zero Suit's moveset, it's ultimately a drawback.

 

[Empyrean]

Up-b kills though. And with no SDI, it's guaranteed to always connect, assuming you land the first hit. Now all we need to know is if it's a good OoS option. I prefer it over the whip too.

 

[KingBroly]

Up-b kills though. And with no SDI, it's guaranteed to always connect, assuming you land the first hit. Now all we need to know is if it's a good OoS option. I prefer it over the whip too.

if you miss, you're completely vulnerable though. With Up Tether, the recovery is rather quick.

 

[Empyrean]

if you miss, you're completely vulnerable though. With Up Tether, the recovery is rather quick.

I thought it didn't put you in helplessness. Even still, I like the change.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hopefully none. I plan on maining her if Marth is ass. Which he probably is.

 

[himemiya]

I think the new Up+B is a nerf, to be honest. It's harder to hit people with it, and while it may offer a modicum of variety to Zero Suit's moveset, it's ultimately a drawback.

I hate up-b tethers with a passion so I'm seeing it as a buff ether way.

 

[Ryan.]

I definitely thing Up B is a buff more than a nerf. I've seen people use it very successfully a lot and it is really powerful. I did like her original Up B too though.

 

[Mrkrabs06]

I like both up b's , but I would say that the up b in Smash 4 is a buff. Seems like a great kill move as long as the player can't get out of it since it's very hard to DI and SDI

 

[Phan7om]

ZSS Up-B oos is probably godlike

 

[Dohz]

Judging from this video (http://youtu.be/rijQQ7i0Gpc?t=1m45s), her Up-B doesn't put her into helplessness as she was able to act again immediately afterwards. I'm sure those who've played with her can confirm or deny this. I see it as a buff. It kills, can possibly combo, possible good oos option, better recovery.

 

[ClinkStryphart]

Her upB from brawl is a buff in more than just one way. Sure the tether was cool but that was her major drawback in Brawl. Considering all people had to do is Ledgeguard even with I-frames being off a tether due to occupancy would automatically make them go into helpless state. Ya it would hit the enemy on the holding on to the ledge but ZSS and others like her return such as Ivysaur, and Olimar(hence why they changed his return also) couldn't return. This new Up-B is way better.

 

[Krynxe]

I ctrl+f'd "zair" and got no results

did you all not catch zamus' lagless zair that's similar to brawl samus. If that nonsense isn't removed, I might play this character out of her sheer brokenness.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I'm wondering about her up b, in Brawl you could practically use it on somebody on a platform above her and just spam it for a huge beat down right before up kicking them off the stage, I wonder if that will still be in?

 

[TeaTwoTime]

I'm wondering about her up b, in Brawl you could practically use it on somebody on a platform above her and just spam it for a huge beat down right before up kicking them off the stage, I wonder if that will still be in?

Definitely not, considering her up-B is now totally different. I did like that trick, but I think the new up-B will provide its own set of tricks to compensate.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Definitely not, considering her up-B is now totally different. I did like that trick, but I think the new up-B will provide its own set of tricks to compensate.

Its also for the better since I'm not really a fan on rely on tether recovery.

 

[KingChaos]

Won't she have a tether recovery still? She still has side b and a zair! One of those gotta be a tether.

 

[KingBroly]

Yeah, Side B is still there, but Up B as a Recovery is worse. While Up B is a definite KO move for ZSS, I think it has a great deal of negatives about it. Like other Up B moves, it stops all button inputs until you touch ground afterwards. With Up B before, you could just spam it and get lucky.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSS has a zair tether recovery too though

 

[KingBroly]

z air? I guess I need to refamiliarize myself with Smash lingo.

 

[IsmaR]

z air? I guess I need to refamiliarize myself with Smash lingo.

Using a tether grab in the air for the purpose of attacking rather than trying to grab the ledge.

Basically pressing Z (on the GC controller)/using a grab in the air results in an attack now, similar to regular Samus' Grapple Beam or Link's Clawshot.

 

[KingBroly]

Using a tether grab in the air for the purpose of attacking rather than trying to grab the ledge.

Basically pressing Z (on the GC controller)/using a grab in the air results in an attack now, similar to regular Samus' Grapple Beam or Link's Clawshot.

Thank you. That's good.

 

[Zero Suit Roxas]

Her up special isn't much use for combos anymore, but it's a really great KO move. It's not entirely useful for recovery unless you're directly under the ledge. It doesn't have a lot of horizontal recovery, but you should use Flip Jump or Plasma Whip for that anyways. I think her new up special is a nice counter for meteor smashing, but for recovering, her up special from Brawl is better, especially since she doesn't become helpless after using it.

 

[Chinaux]

Her up+b isn't really a good recovery. Great for killing though.