So is Ivysaur considered the worst of the 3.

[Phazonin]

Squirtle- Quick, great aerial game, down throw kills, etc.

Charizard- Powerful, rock smash is good, decent tilts, etc.

Ivysaur- Am I missing something? I can't use the razor leaf effectively, + his smashes are laggy and down smash is weak. Recovery=worst in the game next to Olimar. Tilts seems okay, but they're very weak.

Help complete this Pokemon trio.

 

[hippiedude92]

Eh I don't think she is. IMO I don't believe " This ____ is the worst out of the 3" Each pokemon has it's own uses making them very different and sitautional. I don't use her Dsmash since it is the weakest of her arsenal. If they're behind me, throw a bullet seed. It hits front and behind gives a quick 30% if they do poor DI. His Bair is pretty beast can be used as WoP I believe and great followup for a smash. I mean sure her recovery is crap and all, that's why you MUST take control middle of the stage imo.

So once again each pokemon has its own purpose and such. Ivysaur can be really beastly if you know how to space right and what to do in each situation.

 

[Elliot Gale]

No, that would be Squirtle and all his no range and no reliable kill moves.

Ivysaur is a defensive character. Zone with Ftilt, Bair, Leaves, etc. Kill with Fsmash, and if the situation presents itself, Uair/Usmash/Fair/Bthrow/Vine Whip. Ivy is actually a great edgeguarder himself in return for being easily gimped; the tether is a great edgehogging mechanism, and bair and fair make for great harrassment moves.

 

[Knyaguy]

No, that would be Squirtle and all his no range and no reliable kill moves.

Ivysaur is a defensive character. Zone with Ftilt, Bair, Leaves, etc. Kill with Fsmash, and if the situation presents itself, Uair/Usmash/Fair/Bthrow/Vine Whip. Ivy is actually a great edgeguarder himself in return for being easily gimped; the tether is a great edgehogging mechanism, and bair and fair make for great harrassment moves.

Agreed, If they were to rank them from worst to best it would be Squirtle, Ivy, Char.

 

[mickeyk90]

hard call

used to be ivysaur but now it just takes practice to master her/him/it

 

[Natch]

No, that would be Squirtle and all his no range and no reliable kill moves.

Ivysaur is a defensive character. Zone with Ftilt, Bair, Leaves, etc. Kill with Fsmash, and if the situation presents itself, Uair/Usmash/Fair/Bthrow/Vine Whip. Ivy is actually a great edgeguarder himself in return for being easily gimped; the tether is a great edgehogging mechanism, and bair and fair make for great harrassment moves.

>_>

Range is an issue, yes. But seriously, his Aerials are just ****. Get a grab or some U-tilts in, and they're airborne. Yeah, he sucks at killing, but that's what you use Down+B for. Just knock them away from the stage with a Dthrow, Fair, or what have you, then switch to Ivy for the kill.

It's stupid for people to treat PT as 3 entirely seperate characters. Use them in conjunction with each other.



Also, to help out the TC/OP: If you need a decent approach, run up, jump(not short hop) and then Dair as you come down. Also, Ivy has great anti-air game, and she doesn't even have to leave the ground. Bullet Seed, Up+B, and Razor Leaf to a lesser extent.

Nobody should ever be able to jump over you without running into a Bullet Seed or Vine whip.

Try this: Spam Razor Leaf. As soon as they jump over it and come into range, use Vine whip to send them back. If they somehow avoid that, Ftilt is a good spacer as well. A good Ivy, if played right, should be nigh impossible to approach or even jump over.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

While I do agree that it is important to treat them all as one character, it is also necessary to look at each of them on their own. Once we understand all three characters completely, then we can work on how to use them together as a team.

As for Ivysaur's purpose, she's defensive and is the middle of the group. She can rack up damage and she has power, but she's not the best. Learn to lure your opponent in with razor leaves and give them Bullet Seed hell, or space yourself with bair spammage. Ivysaur is a fine character.

 

[Stroupes]

Ivysaur used to be my favorite, because I play defensively and with range.
She's definately good at ranged attacking, she has the longest reach.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Used to be? What happened? D=

 

[Stroupes]

I got better with Charizard

 

[Charizard92]

The "who's worst" title has bounced around a lot over the couple of months Brawl has been released to the public. First, this title went to Charizard, due to his big size and Tank like ability, people assumed that he is slow, bulky, and just downright horrible, like the other tanks he is grouped with. Around the time when I joined (or because, as I made a tread to knock that Idea down), Charizard was proven as, not the worst, but the best, being the most practical of the three, due to surprising running speed and great advantages, especially among his own kind. After Charizard rose to the eventual golden platform, Ivysaur, who was once the middle one, has become the worst, namely due to his awkward fighting style and poor recovery. Very quickly, this was debunked as merely a bias against the hard to learn, and Squirtle, the original golden Pokemon, went into question. Due to his ease, Squirtle quickly became the golden one early on, but under more examination, it was later discovered that Squirtle is in full reality, the least practical. When the game was released, the Pokemon best to worst list looked like this:

Squirtle>Ivysaur>Charizard

Recently, however, the list flipped on it's head, and now looks like this:

Squirtle<Ivysaur<Charizard

 

[Onxy]

Ivy is easily the worst online, IMO.

 

[Stroupes]

Squirtle<Ivysaur<Charizard

That's more accurate. Squirtle has good combo potential, but Charizard is an excellent tank, gimper, and has low-KO moves and throws.
Ivysaur has more range and power than Squirtle.

Ivy is easily the worst online, IMO.

Squirtle is the hardest online.
It's so difficult to control him in the air, and to land combos with the button lag.

 

[Onxy]

Many of Ivy's attacks are laggy; such as Fair; and is too hard to control, along with her garbage aerial speed.

 

[Kemious]

I honestly dont believe there is a worst its more or less based on your opponents character and play style. To say charizard is the best or worst is to say that he is the one that you can use in any give situation. Like Charizard isnt my friend against people who play Wario. But Squirtle is. My Squirtle has some an easier time killing Snake for me after someone has give him a far bit of damage. But My char can only really spike him. Adversily My char is pretty good at dealing the nessacary damage to snake players. It all depends

 

[Collective of Bears]

Ivysaur is the best. End of story.

 

[Stroupes]

And, regarding the OP's view of Ivysaur's recovery, I think it's one of the best. As long as you are edge-hogged, it can easily reach from near the bottom of FD.
I was spiked one time as Ivy, and was about to die, when I jumped and then recovered.
It has long reach. And for horizontal purposes, Razor Leaf comes in handy for eliminating that nasty edge-hogging problem.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

I main as Ivysaur because she is a great spacer and has good smashes along with other things.

The worst might be Squirtle while the best is probably Charizard.

Each poke has matchups that they suck at so squirtle can be used in some situations.

 

[Onxy]

I'm starting to miss the striking features that Ivy has now. Bair, Nair and Fair are like the only things I do now when I'm Ivy; depending on the opponent.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Onxy, choose a flippin avatar and KEEP IT!

 

[Onxy]

I love Squirtle, what do you want?

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I'm not sure I like to think of the pokemon as being a "worst" and a "best." However, Charizard is probably the fastest heavyweight in the game in terms of attack speed, with good horizontal range.

However, they are all situational, and it is not uncommon that Squirtle excels where Charizard fails.

Frankly, I think that the hardest part about being a "Pokemon Master" is the amount of thought that must be put into every matchup - there is no "always enter first with Ivysaur," nor a "Charzard is always a good choice," but rather you're always dealing with the question of which one should fight first in this particular matchup, while avoiding the pokemon with the greatest weakness in a given situation.

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Are you allowed to change your starting pokemon before the first round or is that considered a counterpick?

 

[Onxy]

You should, considering that you're limiting a character if you don't.

 

[T-Link]

I don't think there is a best or worst. They have all different strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Onxy]

That's like saying tiers don't exist.

 

[T-Link]

Yes but, PT is one character.

 

[Onxy]

That doesn't matter.

 

[Omis]

Yes but, PT is one character.

Made up of three distinct parts.

 

[T-Link]

Wait, I was confused. I'm thinking of character matchups for PT not the individual pokemon. My bad.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Squirtle is the best of the three by far. Ivysaur is the worst.

Squirtle is allowed to move in the air, has the best aerials, and has the best grab game of the three. Being a small target outweighs the fact it is lightweight.

Ivysaur can't move in the air, for the most part has a very situational air game, and it has the worst recovery in the entire game. Mind you, none of the three Pokemon have GOOD recovery, but Ivysaur's is just godawful because of both lack of DI and the reliance on a tether.

Charizard however has some slightly better matchups against people that outprioritize Squirtle IMO, but it suffers from being a big target and having a worse air game.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Charizard's grab game is by far better than Squirtle's.

As awesome as it might be to be a small target and sail through the air, when doing any sort of attack puts you in danger of being grabbed by almost anyone, it doesn't mean much. Squirtle needs to be very careful in regards to any sort of attacking. It also doesn't mean much when you have absolutely worthless specials.

Ivysaur is NOT going to be using it's aerial game, considering it's ground game is far more useful. That's like saying that a character like Wario is going to try to be campy with his motorcycle parts. Ivysaur's spacing and camp game is great. Since it can control large areas, it's very easy for Ivysaur to control the center stage versus most characters, which is what you should do. Vine Whip > Pikmin Chain anyway, the distance is far longer than the standard attack. Sometimes I surprise myself with it, especially on stages like Delfino Plaza, where you can grab from a bit below the platform.

Charizard is too cool, though. What the air-game lacks in speed it makes up for a lot in both power and range. Charizard's grab game is just too good, and it also leads straight into being gimped by Dair or Bair. Fair is a terrible approach, but Bair isn't. Charizard's tilts are also speedy and powerful, in addition to his awesome Usmash for kills. He's got the best recovery, too, and it isn't half-bad. Not as bad as Squirtle's.

 

[Phazonin]

Wow, I didn't expect this many constructive replies in this short while. The Samus, ZSS and Sheik boards are a lot slower... keep up the good work Pokemon Trainer board.

 

[Onxy]

Last time I checked, characters like Dedede have terrible aerial speed, and it doesn't seem to hold him back.

Squirtle's grab game gets him injured, Ivy and Char are both better at it.

You'd be suprised of Charizard's aerial game, though it doesn't move much in the air, but he can hold his own.

Squirtle's aerial game can get him chaingrabbed by half of the cast.. And yes people, Dedede can chaingrab Squirtle, just in a different way.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Well what i have to say has already been said....ok, so ivy's recovery is bad, and what?? Edgehogging seems to me the most awfull thing someone can do to win a match, its forbidden where i play, and i think that in some tournaments too, so that lets ivy with one of the best recoveries in the game, you just have to be near the edge and upB, and BOOM you are on the stage again, anyway, ivys aerial speed can be good for her, becuase that may ruin the timing for the people who tries to edgehog you with the invicibility frames, which means you can clean the edge with razor leaf, Fair or hitting the edgehogger with your upB, that way you will bot die. Ivysaurs game is really good, you are almost untouchable
Spam razor leaf, then they run towards you, Dtilt, if they shield, Dtilt again, if they jump, vine whip..... WIN

 

[Onxy]

Edge hogging is rarely a problem with good DI, even for Ivy. Just when they grab it, and if they're close, Nair 'em.

 

[Phazonin]

Banning edgehogging? I've never heard of that.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Yeah, it makes sense if you think about it

 

[Phazonin]

Not really. It's like an integral part of the game. That's almost like saying you can't edgeguard.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Last time I checked, characters like Dedede have terrible aerial speed, and it doesn't seem to hold him back.

DDD has fast fall speed AND multiple jumps. If you don't have that, you probably need less overall lag on aerials and the ability to DI.

Squirtle's grab game gets him injured, Ivy and Char are both better at it.

D-throw kill at like 130% wtf. No really, squirtle has the better grab game. And he's a small target with abnormal grab range mind you.

Squirtle's aerial game can get him chaingrabbed by half of the cast.. And yes people, Dedede can chaingrab Squirtle, just in a different way.

Standing chaingrabs are banned.

Ivysaur is NOT going to be using it's aerial game, considering it's ground game is far more useful. That's like saying that a character like Wario is going to try to be campy with his motorcycle parts. Ivysaur's spacing and camp game is great. Since it can control large areas, it's very easy for Ivysaur to control the center stage versus most characters, which is what you should do. Vine Whip > Pikmin Chain anyway, the distance is far longer than the standard attack. Sometimes I surprise myself with it, especially on stages like Delfino Plaza, where you can grab from a bit below the platform.

Not having an air game sucks more than not having a ground game. This hurts your ability to follow up, ledgeguard, and recover. And besides, Squirtle has a better ground game than Ivysaur anyway by simply being a lot faster at attacking and smaller while maintaining ridiculous priority on attacks.