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Snake Video Guide - The Elements of War Part 7 Hosted (2 Parts left!)

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SuSa

SuSa

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Dashing is worse, I didn't say it wasn't there.

There is almost always a better option then dashing, watch how Ally uses his dashes, its more or less for tech-chasing from what I have seen.

Also since everything that takes extra time to input is bad (general consensus of every board because Pivot Walking takes 'to long' when its faster then they're walk) shield dropping is a bad answer.

Not saying its not good, but there is better.
 
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Suo

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Havokk said:
Dashing is worse, I didn't say it wasn't there.
There is almost always a better option then dashing, watch how Ally uses his dashes, its more or less for tech-chasing from what I have seen.
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Dashing isn't worse, that's too much of an ultimatum. When you dash you're only committing to the initial animation, for Snake this is very short.
Dashing is more effective than walking in certain situations because it allows you to apply pressure quickly, and unexpectedly, something that walking cannot accomplish.

Ally uses Dashing in many more ways than just tech-chasing. Primarily he uses it for spacing, he'll continuosly dash in and out of F-tilt range, while using grenades, and dash in grabs to keep the opponent on their toes. At this point, Ally plays the fastest, and most effective Snake, and he does it with liberal use of dashing. Yes Dashing is always the best option for a tech-chase.


Also since everything that takes extra time to input is bad (general consensus of every board because Pivot Walking takes 'to long' when its faster then they're walk) shield dropping is a bad answer.
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I don't think pivot walking is a great example, as it requires a custom control scheme.

Like I said before, with good reflexes and use of the bufferring system shield drops are more than fast enough. We're talking about a minute amount of frames, and that small small window is offset by the speed with which you can dash in and out of attack ranges.

I feel like you're too quick to categorize things into DO and DON'T there's a lot more gray area than that. Shield drop dashing is effective in many situations, and can be more effective than walking in certain situations, and vice versa.

Anyways, it's late, I gotta sleep. Walking is good, but so is dashing.:)
 
SuSa

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Suo said:
Dashing isn't worse, that's too much of an ultimatum. When you dash you're only committing to the initial animation, for Snake this is very short.
Dashing is more effective than walking in certain situations because it allows you to apply pressure quickly, and unexpectedly, something that walking cannot accomplish.

Ally uses Dashing in many more ways than just tech-chasing. Primarily he uses it for spacing, he'll continuosly dash in and out of F-tilt range, while using grenades, and dash in grabs to keep the opponent on their toes. At this point, Ally plays the fastest, and most effective Snake, and he does it with liberal use of dashing. Yes Dashing is always the best option for a tech-chase.



I don't think pivot walking is a great example, as it requires a custom control scheme.

Like I said before, with good reflexes and use of the bufferring system shield drops are more than fast enough. We're talking about a minute amount of frames, and that small small window is offset by the speed with which you can dash in and out of attack ranges.

I feel like you're too quick to categorize things into DO and DON'T there's a lot more gray area than that. Shield dropping is effective in many situations, and can be more effective than walking in certain situations, and vice versa.

Anyways, it's late, I gotta sleep. Walking is good, but so is dashing.:)
Click to expand...
Going to ignore everything and skip to pivot walking for a moment.
It doesn't require you to change your control scheme, I do it just fine with normal controls (besides my usual R for specials and Tap Jump Off that I had before PW)

Walking is great, dashing is situational.

If you can find me more examples -besides- Ally who obviously uses Dashes, you may sway me. Finding only 1-2 people means yes, they put the extra time to make it better. Which does not make it the best.

and I have stuff I never see any other MK main do... but I'm not trying to help his metagame >.> so I'm keeping that to myself.....
 
Nic64

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Walking is great, dashing is situational.
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everything snake does is situational, though(except grenades maybe). I find walking to be the preferred option in the neutral state while dashing can be very useful when advantaged(not as dominant in this state as walking is in neutral but still a good option if you know when to apply it). I think it is definitely a good idea to caution new players to dashing too much, walk don't run is good advice, but that doesn't mean dashing is pointless all together.

also I have to say I am curious as to what the frame data for shield dropping really is...it's probably not as good as you might think it is when you consider that you have to add that to the start up of whatever action you take and snake only has two really fast ground moves. hence why it's best to run mostly only when you know your opponent can't do anything meaningful to stop you IMO
 
SuSa

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Nic64 said:
everything snake does is situational, though(except grenades maybe). I find walking to be the preferred option in the neutral state while dashing can be very useful when advantaged(not as dominant in this state as walking is in neutral but still a good option if you know when to apply it). I think it is definitely a good idea to caution new players to dashing too much, walk don't run is good advice, but that doesn't mean dashing is pointless all together.

also I have to say I am curious as to what the frame data for shield dropping really is...it's probably not as good as you might think it is when you consider that you have to add that to the start up of whatever action you take and snake only has two really fast ground moves. hence why it's best to run mostly only when you know your opponent can't do anything meaningful to stop you IMO
Click to expand...
I'm getting Snake frame data this week, along with doing the videos, c4 testing, mine testing, and what smashes Ftilt (the first one) can stop when they are uncharged.

>.>
 
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nice1

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after watching these. i gotta practice my reverse B. i always get punish when i'm in the air.
 
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Suo

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3rd video was good. Something that really needs to be discussed about grenades is that Snake can instantly turn around with a b-reversed grenade on the ground.

When he does this as a grenade counter it makes it basically impossible for any attack to hit Snakes shield without blowing themselves and the grenade up. (i.e. GaW's back air, Marth's forward air.) It's basically a more effective way of grenade countering.
 
ROCKER09

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I was looking for a video of the jab cancel cause its the only snake tech i didnt fully understand, and your video helped alot... Thanks!!
 
SuSa

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Video 6 has been canceled.

I made it, noticed it was only 3 minutes long, and said "Bad Guide is Bad" and deleted it.

Read the OP for more information on why I canceled it.

Video 7 (it's still called 7) will be made soon. I love tech-chasing. This video will be the first to sport "Game Footage" of me playing and my tech-chase highlights, or in any spot I tech-chase really. The footage will be short (probably 00:20 as a max...although I doubt many will go over 00:10)
 
stnapknah

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Hey i just watched video 5... you keep saying it's bad but i thought it was good. I was able to understand everything clearly (especially when you said "ahh i hate being sick" like 4 times at the end lol)
But in all seriousness i think it's fine... can't wait for vid 7

That's just my 2 cents.
 
SuSa

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I hate being sick
I hate being sick
I hate being sick
I hate being sick
I hate being sick
I hate being Sick
I hate being sick
I hate being Sick

Understand me even clearer now?

I'll get vid 7 done when talking doesn't make me want to chop off an arm or something to try and numb my throat pain.

and as I responded on Youtube

Video 7 will only show tech-chasing from grabs, especially dthrow.

I also found batteries for my wiimote, so I'll be able to stage a tech-chase. :D
 
stnapknah

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Yeah, I was in the process of replying to you on Youtube but then my comp shutdown for some reason o_O... so I'll do it here

Yeah, tech chasing will be a good video since people probably don't know all their options after a d-throw and it's good to mix it up...

I also forgot to mention that earlier you said you were going to put in footage for the next vid. I think that's awesome and you should totally put in minutes (not just seconds) of it because it's fun to watch lol

And finding batteries is good, I guess... but finding a friend would be better :p
 
SuSa

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Friends, who needs them? (wait... I do D: )

I live in Palmdale/Lancaster, we have a huge smash scene, but they all live on like 20th and 30th west and I'm all the way over at 60th west -.- (like an hour or two walk...., 45 minute skate if I skate all the way, and I can't get a ride because my moms a... yah...)

Also, to show your options, you don't really need a friend. xD

Once I start showing uthrow/fthrow/bthrow tech-chases, I'm going to have issues doing proper and improper DI (to show how you can super-punish improper DI, and only 'maybe' punish proper DI)


Also, footage would be of me, considering I don't really have a way to include any from anyone else unless they send me the replays.... overall I'll probably have 2:00~ of footage, but seperated into :10-:20 segments.
 
Tub

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poop.
i tested/ wrote a lot, in the little facts we need to test thread, (on pg. 3) and dont think anyone saw it.
 
SuSa

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IxxI said:
Two thing to add on to tech chasing and prediction.

1) If your opponent is at 0% and your able to knock them down with an f tilt afterwards, pull out your RPG. They're at the perfect space ito get hit if they roll forward. It's fun doing this, trust me. Very satisfying. =]

2) If they are on a platform above you, pull our your RPG. 60% of the time people have a tendancy to drop down like idiots.

RPG is FUN!
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1. er.... you mean if you hit them from the air and it knocks them down at 0%? They need to learn to space,

2. Most people drop down + do an aerial, and thats prediction, not tech chasing. Unless -you put them in that position-
 
Taeran

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Good job on the vid. Keep 'em coming, and hopefully it will attract more people to the snake boards.

P.S. Check your PMs.
 
8AngeL8

8AngeL8

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Nice to see this is coming along really well. Are you going to be at the huge tournament in California coming up pretty soon? I forget the name at the moment...
 
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