Snake: the second heaviest character

[Ganon1]

A point in Snake's favor is that he's the second heaviest out of all the Brawl characters. I went to Final Destination in Training Mode and checked at what damage Fox's fully charged up-smash will KO each character. The top 5 were Dedede (71 damage), Snake (69 damage), Donkey Kong (68 damage), Bowser (66 damage), and Captain Falcon (65 damage). I can post a full list if anyone wants it. Snake also has a decent up-B recovery so I think he'll be one of the hardest characters to kill in general.

 

[Dinivan]

Duh, he's a survival expert. He'll ****ing eat yoshi if he has to.

 

[Wizard99]

I would love to see that list. This is very interesting...

 

[CaptainPlatypus]

Wow, I knew he was pretty heavy and one of the hardest to kill, but I didn't really think he would be around the second heaviest character in the game. That is pretty sweet.

I'd really love to see that list. I'm guessing you check these percents more than once, right? Sometimes an attack or placement could be off just enough to give an inaccurate number. Good job so far.

 

[jwj442]

Isn't falling speed a factor with vertical KOs as well as character weight? You should test it with the forward smash too.

 

[Pit_the_Angel]

A point in Snake's favor is that he's the second heaviest out of all the Brawl characters. I went to Final Destination in Training Mode and checked at what damage Fox's fully charged up-smash will KO each character. The top 5 were Dedede (71 damage), Snake (69 damage), Donkey Kong (68 damage), Bowser (66 damage), and Captain Falcon (65 damage). I can post a full list if anyone wants it. Snake also has a decent up-B recovery so I think he'll be one of the hardest characters to kill in general.

So, how do you get 2nd out of this?

 

[00Sn8k]

Nice, no wonder my friends were having a nightmare trying to chip stocks off while I was Snake. Compared with the fact that Snake is a manly beast just makes it even cooler to play him. Cheah boi!

 

[bman in 2288]

That list seems wrong. First, isn't Bowser supposed to be the heaviest character in the game? Second, there should be more people heavier than Snake. It doesn't make sense to make him the second heaviest in the game.

I'm going to have to test this out.

 

[Hax]

@bman: well, from what i know falcon was the 'heaviest' in melee. a character's looks don't mean anything in smash, lol. snake is pretty ****ing heavy btw

 

[bman in 2288]

No. I mean, everyone is affected equally by gravity in this game, so vertical KOs should depend solely onthe weight. I mean, even Snake's Codec convo about Bowser talks about how he's the heaviest fighter in the game. Yet, Snake is harder to do a vert kill on. I'm rather confused about this.

And in Melee, I know how the falling speed of characters combined with their weight contributed to how long it took to vert-kill them. Falcon, having large weight as well as a fast fall speed, made vert-KOing him the most difficult in Melee.

 

[00Sn8k]

It does, though, puzzle me. I'm not doubting or anything but didn't it say on the dojo that "Bowser is the heaviest of fighters."? Just throwing that out there......

 

[Invalid]

It'd seem like ganondorf would be heavier than Cfalcon.

 

[CaptainPlatypus]

Okay, Well, I saw some people were a bit skeptical about the information the thread creator presented, so I went and spent some time trying to figure how heavy and light the characters were.

I used Capton Falcon in Training Mode on Final Destination. I would move each character to the middle after putting so much damage on them and then I would get as close as I can and use Falcon Punch.
How does this work? Well, let's say I had a character at 51 percent and the Falcon Punch killed them. I would then put 50% on them and attempt the Falcon Punch again. If it didn't kill them on 50% then they would be rated as a 51%. I also double checked...sometimes more... most of the characters so these should be pretty **** accurate.

I looked at wikipedia to see if my percents and such went along with what they had to say. It was all accurate except Squirtle who wiki said was light or very light... Well, he wasn't going by my tests. And I checked Squirtle probably 20 times and it was always the same. So yeah, this is what I got.

Falcon Punch Test Results
1. Bowser - 57%
2. Donkey Kong - 56%
3. Snake - 55%
4. King DeDeDe - 54%
5. Samus - 54%
6. Ganondorf - 53%
7. Charizard - 53%
8. Ike - 53%
9. Yoshi - 53%
10. Wario - 53%
11. Captain Falcon - 52%
12. Link - 51%
13. Mario - 50%
14. Lucario - 50%
15. Squirtle - 50%
16. Luigi - 48%
17. Pit - 48%
18. Ness - 48%
19. Lucas - 48%
20. Peach - 47%
21. Sonic - 47%
22. Diddy Kong - 47%
23. Marth - 46%
24. Ice Climbers - 46%
25. Zelda - 45%
26. Falco - 43%
27. Sheik - 43%
28. Olimar - 43%
29. Meta Knight - 42%
30. Pikachu - 42%
31. Ivysaur - 42%
32. Kirby - 42%
33. Fox - 41%

The characters that aren't listed haven't been unlocked on the Wii I was using.
Some of these may be 1-2% off just because of placement, but I atleast double checked all of them and it was always the same. A few were 1% off at different attempts but I just kept doing tests on them until I got like a 4/5 on one percent for them. I'll add the characters on here as they get unlocked.

 

[bman in 2288]

It might have been better to have pushed them to the edge and then performed the Punch, it's pretty standardized then, and no guessing, but what you did seems well enough, anyways.

But that still doesn't explain why it takes longer to kill Snake off the top than Bowser.

 

[abit_rusty]

That just further proves Snake is a monster. Heavyweight, powerhouse up close, powerhouse ranged, recovery isn't too shabby at all (if I may say so, excellent if used properly).

 

[Jeff Highwind]

Pretty spiffy info. No wonder he fastfalls fast.

 

[Ganon1]

Okay, Well, I saw some people were a bit skeptical about the information the thread creator presented, so I went and spent some time trying to figure how heavy and light the characters were.

I used Capton Falcon in Training Mode on Final Destination. I would move each character to the middle after putting so much damage on them and then I would get as close as I can and use Falcon Punch.
How does this work? Well, let's say I had a character at 51 percent and the Falcon Punch killed them. I would then put 50% on them and attempt the Falcon Punch again. If it didn't kill them on 50% then they would be rated as a 51%. I also double checked...sometimes more... most of the characters so these should be pretty **** accurate.

I looked at wikipedia to see if my percents and such went along with what they had to say. It was all accurate except Squirtle who wiki said was light or very light... Well, he wasn't going by my tests. And I checked Squirtle probably 20 times and it was always the same. So yeah, this is what I got.

Falcon Punch Test Results
1. Bowser - 57%
2. Donkey Kong - 56%
3. Snake - 55%
4. King DeDeDe - 54%
5. Samus - 54%
6. Ganondorf - 53%
7. Charizard - 53%
8. Ike - 53%
9. Yoshi - 53%
10. Wario - 53%
11. Captain Falcon - 52%
12. Link - 51%
13. Mario - 50%
14. Lucario - 50%
15. Squirtle - 50%
16. Luigi - 48%
17. Pit - 48%
18. Ness - 48%
19. Lucas - 48%
20. Peach - 47%
21. Sonic - 47%
22. Diddy Kong - 47%
23. Marth - 46%
24. Ice Climbers - 46%
25. Zelda - 45%
26. Falco - 43%
27. Sheik - 43%
28. Olimar - 43%
29. Meta Knight - 42%
30. Pikachu - 42%
31. Ivysaur - 42%
32. Kirby - 42%
33. Fox - 41%

The characters that aren't listed haven't been unlocked on the Wii I was using.
Some of these may be 1-2% off just because of placement, but I atleast double checked all of them and it was always the same. A few were 1% off at different attempts but I just kept doing tests on them until I got like a 4/5 on one percent for them. I'll add the characters on here as they get unlocked.

I think that fox's up smash makes a better test than the falcon punch because 1) it goes straight up, 2) it does 23% damage when hit correctly, rather than varying by proximity to the opponent. I did multiple trials, close and far, and made sure each smash did the same damage.

Here is the full list, on Final Destination (You can just go there yourself and check my results) (number listed is the damage this character needs to be KOed by the fully charged smash):



King Dedede- 71
Snake- 69
Donkey Kong- 68
Bowser- 66
Captain Falcon- 65
Ganondorf- 64
Ike- 64
Link- 63
Wario- 63
Charizard- 62
Wolf- 62
Yoshi- 61
Samus- 60
R.O.B- 60
Ivysaur- 59
Lucario- 58
Luigi- 57
Pit- 57
Mario- 57
Sonic- 57
Ice Climbers- 57
Lucas- 56
Ness- 56
Diddy Kong- 56
Marth- 55
Toon Link- 55
Falco- 53
Peach- 53
Olimar- 52
Pikachu- 51
Zelda- 51
Sheik- 51
Zero Suit Samus- 51
Meta Knight- 50
Kirby- 49
Fox- 49
Game & Watch- 48
Squirtle- 46
Jigglypuff- 44


Marth and Falco seem lighter than they were in Melee. Zelda / Sheik weigh the same but Samus is significantly heavier when her armor is on.

 

[Kietharr]

I think Platypus's list has more relevance to actual durability because as was said, vertical killing is dependent on both weight and fallspeed which don't always go hand in hand. Plus it's more in line with what is standard thought, that Bowser is the heaviest character. But in reality it doesn't matter as long as everyone knows snake is a fecking beast who is ten times the character most other heavies are.

 

[abit_rusty]

Woa ddd is heaviest...and his recovery is pretty beastly too... :O

 

[bman in 2288]

Kietharr, there's an actual gravity in this game which affects all characters equally. That means everyone falls at the same speed. Therefore, all vert-kills are now solely dependent on the victim's damage percentage and their weight, fall speed is no longer a factor. I think the only thing that stayed in Brawl is the characters' horizontal aerial speed, which I'm going to check out later.

 

[LoOshKiN]

@bman: well, from what i know falcon was the 'heaviest' in melee. a character's looks don't mean anything in smash, lol. snake is pretty ****ing heavy btw

Bowser was the heaviest. I'm pretty sure about that. Just take two characters to Mushroom Kingdom and have them stand on the scales. That's how weight is determined. I found out using this method that Marth is actually heavier than Roy in Melee. Are there any scales in Brawl to test out character's weight?

 

[CaptainPlatypus]

I think that fox's up smash makes a better test than the falcon punch because 1) it goes straight up, 2) it does 23% damage when hit correctly, rather than varying by proximity to the opponent. I did multiple trials, close and far, and made sure each smash did the same damage.

Here is the full list, on Final Destination (You can just go there yourself and check my results) (number listed is the damage this character needs to be KOed by the fully charged smash):



King Dedede- 71
Snake- 69
Donkey Kong- 68
Bowser- 66
Captain Falcon- 65
Ganondorf- 64
Ike- 64
Link- 63
Wario- 63
Charizard- 62
Wolf- 62
Yoshi- 61
Samus- 60
R.O.B- 60
Ivysaur- 59
Lucario- 58
Luigi- 57
Pit- 57
Mario- 57
Sonic- 57
Ice Climbers- 57
Lucas- 56
Ness- 56
Diddy Kong- 56
Marth- 55
Toon Link- 55
Falco- 53
Peach- 53
Olimar- 52
Pikachu- 51
Zelda- 51
Sheik- 51
Zero Suit Samus- 51
Meta Knight- 50
Kirby- 49
Fox- 49
Game & Watch- 48
Squirtle- 46
Jigglypuff- 44


Marth and Falco seem lighter than they were in Melee. Zelda / Sheik weigh the same but Samus is significantly heavier when her armor is on.

Did you do this Brawl Mode or Training? Because I couldn't get the CPU to take up ZS Samus in Training Mode. So, I went to Brawl Mode and realized that the same attack does different damages in Brawl Mode and that it isn't an exact match to Training. Captain Falcon's dtilt always does 10% on training and on Brawl it was doing anywhere from 7%-10%...Even from the exact same distances. So I noticed Brawl Mode wasn't really accurate...

I also thought they made Game & Watch heavy in Brawl..

Edit: Range didn't even really effect the damages in Training. Falcon's dtilt always did 10% no matter how far away you were when it landed.. And the Falcon Punch was always doing 27% I believe.

 

[abit_rusty]

Did you do this Brawl Mode or Training? Because I couldn't get the CPU to take up ZS Samus in Training Mode. So, I went to Brawl Mode and realized that the same attack does different damages in Brawl Mode and that it isn't an exact match to Training. Captain Falcon's dtilt always does 10% on training and on Brawl it was doing anywhere from 7%-10%...Even from the exact same distances. So I noticed Brawl Mode wasn't really accurate...

I also thought they made Game & Watch heavy in Brawl..

Edit: Range didn't even really effect the damages in Training. Falcon's dtilt always did 10% no matter how far away you were when it landed.. And the Falcon Punch was always doing 27% I believe.

That's because training mode doesn't take into account the..uh..forgot the term exactly...depreciation of damage from repeated use of the same attack. It's a new factor in brawl.

Also for Zamus just set cpu to control and use a smash ball.

 

[NeoZ]

Kietharr, there's an actual gravity in this game which affects all characters equally. That means everyone falls at the same speed. Therefore, all vert-kills are now solely dependent on the victim's damage percentage and their weight, fall speed is no longer a factor. I think the only thing that stayed in Brawl is the characters' horizontal aerial speed, which I'm going to check out later.

Not everyone falls at the same speed, while the difference is not as big as it was in melee, it's still there.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

@bman: well, from what i know falcon was the 'heaviest' in melee. a character's looks don't mean anything in smash, lol. snake is pretty ****ing heavy btw

dude, the first sentence on the dojo about bowser: "The biggest and the heaviest of fighters, Bowser has a slightly different flavor this time around!"

i guess it depends on how sakurai descirbes "heavy"....


-on topic: just another thing snake is good at

 

[Dinivan]

So everyone shares a standard fall speed, but have varying fast-fall speeds? I guess I could buy that.

If you're going to do a horizontal-oriented knockback test, you should use a non-elemental attack. I'm not trying to spread rumours, but doesn't it seem a tad fishy that squirtle did MUCH better than he should have?

 

[bman in 2288]

Eh, I see your point. And yeah, I was testing out the fall speeds earlier, and I realized that each character does indeed have their own fall speed; it's just much less noticeable in Brawl. My bad. It's just that, Snake falls slowly.

Use Dedede's full-charged fsmash for this test. It's non-elemental, and it's the strongest fsmash in the game.

 

[Ganon1]

CaptainPlatypus: I did the test in Training Mode. If you set the CPU to Control you can plug in a second controller and transform it to ZSS yourself.

 

[CaptainPlatypus]

CaptainPlatypus: I did the test in Training Mode. If you set the CPU to Control you can plug in a second controller and transform it to ZSS yourself.

Oh, okay. Didn't think about doing that.

I might try to go re-test using DeDeDe's forward smash and see what the results are on that. Either way, the tests show that Snake is atleast top 5 as far as weight goes. B E A S T!