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Meta Smooth Lander and Heavy Gravity (SLHG)

Muro

Smash Lord
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Ike is your secondary? I don't think I've ever fought your Ike. I guess I'll have to wait 2 months.
Yes, given your secondaries, this patch was gold for you.
Yeah but we haven't played in a while. I played him some against @NatP. My secondaries are lot more volatile than my main (I change secondaries a lot while I've never changed main), I recently noticed I tend to play better when I have the range advantage (I must suck at spacing lol) so I picked him up, but haven't really explored a lot. Gonna have to check out these buffs, they seem rather substantial for him.
 
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nannerham

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Heres something i tried with falco, when you dthrow with him at low percents while you're chasing them do a falling uair theres pretty much no downside in attempting it. If they tech it oh well you can still tech chase them, but if they miss the tech you have soooo many options to punish. FF uair-> utilt-> uair-> uair, FF uair-> grab-> dthrow-> RAR bair, FF uair-> nair-> utilt-> usmash and thats just to name a few. I might just pick up falco as my secondary.
 

ZADD

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Heres something i tried with falco, when you dthrow with him at low percents while you're chasing them do a falling uair theres pretty much no downside in attempting it.
I'd say U-throw is better at low percents, Falco really relies on vertical followups. If your opponent techs your D-throw away that's a wasted opportunity.

http://gfycat.com/SlimyCorruptIbex
Speaking of :4falco:, I did this nasty combo while in the lab. It just shows I need to invest more time into this character...
 
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ArtfulHobbes

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I forgot I had this video in the archives, So I decided to upload it. Bowser may not need dash slash as of 1.0.8 as the massive buff to up-tilt helps him combo better but dash slash is still fun to watch. Robin though has some serious combos once he gets going.

Also, I have all the footage recorded for a jump height video with every character, showcasing short hops, full hops, and double jumps using battlefield platforms as reference. I'm currently editing it.
 
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ArtfulHobbes

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Sorry for the double post but I got another technical video uploaded today. Nothing too special, but in case people want to see it this video shows everyone's jump height in SLHG. Only select few characters can't full hop onto a Battlefield platform.
 

Muro

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Sorry for the double post but I got another technical video uploaded today. Nothing too special, but in case people want to see it this video shows everyone's jump height in SLHG. Only select few characters can't full hop onto a Battlefield platform.
This video is great, it's going in the OP for sure. Maybe we could do another one with the recoveries, @ ZADD ZADD 's video is cool but some recoveries are not properly showcased. ALso I'd like to see them go as far as they can instead of just trying to get to the ledge (like in @ ZADD ZADD 's video for villager and olimar without pikmin). For example with rosalina, instead of just aiming for the edge, using your double jump as soon as possible, and then at the apex of the jump use your up-b so she overshoots the ledge as far as she can. That will give a better idea of how strong recoveries still are in SLHG. Also some characters have different recoveries that are not shown (side b neutral b).

edit: also, new characters.
 
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blargh257

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According to Grimloch, Pascal on the Skype group, and a guy on SmashLadder called PolarBair, we are back in business for online SLHG. I can't test it right now, but from what I'm told the execution is the same, it just doesn't show in training mode.
So, online SLHG essentially reconfirmed, waiting for more confirmation.
 
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Pippin (Peregrin Took)

Formerly “ItalianBaptist”
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I hope we're still good. I was just about to send a post saying I haven't abandoned y'all. I've got the evo sets on the original characters so I've resorted to putting slhg sets on the dlc characters. Can't wait to try out mewtwo, ryu and Roy specifically - gratuitous Japanese ftw :)

Also what's the stance on miis again? I've got some cool ones with the equipment setups on them but don't want to mess with people's heads if it's default 1111 only.
 

Muro

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Also what's the stance on miis again? I've got some cool ones with the equipment setups on them but don't want to mess with people's heads if it's default 1111 only.
There's no stance, it's something unrelated to SLHG. I don't enjoy customs but others do, just like in normal sm4sh. Should be fine if you ask before playing ppl.
 

blargh257

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According to Grimloch, Pascal on the Skype group, and a guy on SmashLadder called PolarBair, we are back in business for online SLHG. I can't test it right now, but from what I'm told the execution is the same, it just doesn't show in training mode.
So, online SLHG essentially reconfirmed, waiting for more confirmation.
I've played it and it works.
OK, people, business resumes as it was. That's nice.
 

Muro

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Friends, we're back in business. OP is updated and I can't wait to try out ike and falco goddamn!
 
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ArtfulHobbes

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So... the reason we were on hiatus was because nobody actually decided to play a match?
...
Wow. We suck at testing things guys XD
 

Aunt Jemima

It's ya girl
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Jul 2, 2014
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We're back? Mmm...

I'm stuck on 5.3.2 waiting for Wii U Homebrew, yet it's so tempting to update right now. It's said that eventually homebrew will be available for 5.4.0, but I don't know. The only reason I'd like Wii U Homebrew is for Smash Bros. hacks, but then I realized... what's the point of hacking Smash when barely anybody will be able to do it with me?

I'm on the fence on whether I should update or not, now. Bleh.

Anyways, updating some opinions real quick if I haven't done so. All customs should be off excluding Mega Man and Duck Hunt recovery fixes. Nobody needs them anymore/they are a bit much. Mii Fighters should be restricted to their default height, size and moveset as should Palutena with her customs. All the current decided legal stages should remain, but Castle Siege needs to be banned. It's incredibly easy to camp on the stage due to the lowered jumps.

I want to try Lucas... so bad...

omg I already main Marth, Lucina and Robin, and will pick up Roy regardless. I could main all the Fire Emblem characters along with Lucas if I like how Ike is in the update.
 

Muro

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@ Allec145 Allec145 If you want some matches it's best to ask in this thread since it gets more traffic.

Speaking of which, I have to put the link to the online thread and the smashladder chatroom back in the OP.
 

ArtfulHobbes

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I'm gonna agree with @ Aunt Jemima Aunt Jemima on the customs thing. This update was great for Zard and Bowsers up-tilt Is much better at comboing now. I'd still say Ganon should have dropkick, but to be consistent I too shall stop using customs.

Also, thank god for dreamland lets move Lylat to counterpick. This gives us 8 viable stages.

Anyways, I'll be home in a couple hours. I need some games.
 

ZADD

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This update was great for Zard and Bowsers up-tilt Is much better at comboing now. I'd still say Ganon should have dropkick

Also, thank god for dreamland lets move Lylat to counterpick. This gives us 8 viable stages.
On the subject of Charizard, his down-throw got an insane buff in SLHG. It's now one of the best D-throw setups in the whole roster, you can true combo into D-air on the ledge! Charizard is definitely NOT bottom tier anymore.

Ganon's wizardkick is still so controversial for me, we basically have to choose between him having an amazing recovery or a ****ty one. I don't know the answer, so I'd rather not give it to him for that reason. :/

@ ArtfulHobbes ArtfulHobbes What makes up those 8 stages? I agree that Castle Siege's 2nd form causes way too many problems in SLHG to be legal. And I dont think Miiverse is a realistic stage for tournament purposes with the constant **** drawings. I think 5 starters and 2 counterpicks is totally fine, but I'm still holding out for Yoshi's Story (Melee) dlc in the future.
 

ArtfulHobbes

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Ganon's wizardkick is still so controversial for me, we basically have to choose between him having an amazing recovery or a ****ty one. I don't know the answer, so I'd rather not give it to him for that reason. :/

@ ArtfulHobbes ArtfulHobbes What makes up those 8 stages?
And its because of that controversy that all customs besides Mega Hunts are gone for now.

The 8 legal staged we have thus far are as follows:

Starter:
Battlefield
Final Destination (or Omega Palutenas Temple if you get blinded by the background)
Smashville
Town and City
Dreamland 64

Counterpick:
Lylat Cruise
Halberd
Delfino Plaza
Any Omega Stage (which are banned if FD is banned)

And Probably 2 stage bans.
 
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ZADD

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Counterpick:
Lylat Cruise
Halberd
Delfino Plaza
I love Delfino Plaza, it's one of my favorite stages. But IMO it's not suitable for Heavy Gravity.

The platforms in its normal states are exceptionally high, meaning some characters are forced to use their Up-B to even reach the top. The water is another issue, it's a lot harder to get out compared to say Project M.
 

blargh257

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Reporting some stuff I've noticed.
Holy crap is :4pikachu: good. I've thought he was the best character in the game for quite some time even though everyone else says Sheik. Here's why:
-If he lands an interrupted fair, it's a grab
-Absurd, absurd combos. Fair grab as stated, dthrow up smash, up throw up tilt, up throw up air, up air into a lot, pretty much if you land a grab/fair it's 30% or stock if you do it right.
-EDGEGUARDS. If Pika dairs you offstage, half the cast is dead. Nair is really good for quick stuff and Pika can come back from pretty much anywhere.
-Quick Attack. You don't ever have to go in with Quick Attack so you can sit back and get some chip damage. If it hits the opponent must tech or they risk getting jablocked. If you QAC I think you get an up air (I can't QAC) which leads to stuff as mentioned.
-Oh, I forgot, back throw can set up edgeguards from center stage simply due to how it works.

:4diddy: is still himself, don't worry. Up air was nerfed again, but he has nair and up tilt here, he's definitely still high or mid-high tier.

:4marth: got a lot better. Up tilt has some semblance to what it was in Melee now and combos into a lot, making down throw turnaround up tilt a good option instead of a dead one as it was. I can't jab fsmash and I don't know if you can, but I am pretty sure you can now jab grab. Even if you do miss it, the second hit of Marth's jab is basically a gentleman now (IDK if it was before.)
So yeah, he's basically Marth again.
 

KeithTheGeek

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Personally I prefer Miiverse's base to Battlefield's, and iirc you can turn off the drawings showing up. But you can't use it online anyways, so it's a moot point there.

I honestly don't think the water on Delphino is that much of an issue. I did some tests a while back and every problematic character (Mac, Ganon, Charizard, etc.) are entirely capable of getting out of the water on to dry land. Even on the pillar transformation, which has the bonus effect of allowing you to use wall jumps.
 

VeggieSteel

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Regarding the stage list, it seems weird that we essentially have battlefield twice as a starter (I knew they're not 100% identical, but they're very close), but omega stages aren't even present as a counter pick. I haven't been around the forums much, so I may have missed some discussion, but it's there any particular reason why it's this way? It seems very slanted in favor of characters who benefit from the three platform setup.
 

nannerham

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Regarding the stage list, it seems weird that we essentially have battlefield twice as a starter (I knew they're not 100% identical, but they're very close), but omega stages aren't even present as a counter pick. I haven't been around the forums much, so I may have missed some discussion, but it's there any particular reason why it's this way? It seems very slanted in favor of characters who benefit from the three platform setup.
While battlefield and DL look very similar at first glance its actually very different in practice. DL's blastzones are pretty different especially when taking about the vertical blatzone, in vanilla sm4sh theres about a 10% difference when it comes to the vertical blastzone and 1% difference when it comes to the side blastszone (it ain't much but hey it may matter in the long run) so vertical K.O.s are much easier to pull off. But theres also a difference in DL's platforms. The bottom platforms are higher when compared to battlefields platforms. Art recently did a video showing that there are some characters that cant fullhop onto battlefields bottom platforms. So because DL's bottom platforms are higher that list of who can fullhop on the bottom platform becomes a lot shorter and that in turn makes chasing on platorms a little harder to do. Lets not forget wispy blowing his wind leading hilarious/incredibly salty moments during a match. Personally I think these differences justify DL being a starter stage but hey im just one guy. I hope I answered your question.
 

ArtfulHobbes

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I honestly don't think the water on Delphino is that much of an issue. I did some tests a while back and every problematic character (Mac, Ganon, Charizard, etc.) are entirely capable of getting out of the water on to dry land. Even on the pillar transformation, which has the bonus effect of allowing you to use wall jumps.
Every character can actually get out of the water, at this point its about either banning the stage when you win, or playing safely on the stage to have the stage control and not be in a water situation.
Regarding the stage list, it seems weird that we essentially have battlefield twice as a starter (I knew they're not 100% identical, but they're very close), but omega stages aren't even present as a counter pick. I haven't been around the forums much, so I may have missed some discussion, but it's there any particular reason why it's this way? It seems very slanted in favor of characters who benefit from the three platform setup.
I forgot to include omega stages as counterpicks, I added them now.

And Dreamland is a fantastic starter stage. The smaller ceiling is very good for this mode, and the platforms size and placement are different from the regular battlefield enough to make a difference. The stage layout shouldn't be the issue, and at this point we need as many legal stages for SLHG as we can get.
 

VeggieSteel

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Cool, I've got nothing against dreamland as a starter, I actually really like the stage. I was just surprised to not see the Omegas as a CP, glad to know it was just an oversight :)
 
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Muro

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We gotta deal with miiverse somehow. It doesn't work online but it could be a good stage for offline play.
 

ArtfulHobbes

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New YouTube video up, with 4 others awaiting upload.
Me and Reserved have been going ham with these new characters and buffs.
 

Hyper_Kirby

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Feb 17, 2015
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Everyone says SLHG makes it feel like melee. If anything I get a Super Smash Flash 2 feel out of it.
 

blargh257

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Everyone says SLHG makes it feel like melee. If anything I get a Super Smash Flash 2 feel out of it.
Is that good? Is that bad?
I've never gotten a Melee feel out of it, personally, it seems like something new.
 

Xeze

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We gotta deal with miiverse somehow. It doesn't work online but it could be a good stage for offline play.
Miiverse for offline play could be an alternate Battlefield (just like Omegas are alternate FDs), since both stages are quite similar.
 

6thShEiK

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Has anyone tested slhg with the shield degeneration badge? Appears to make shields weaker and promote a less defensive game. Smash Pit on YouTube documented the US of shield degeneration badge on his channel
 

blargh257

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Has anyone tested slhg with the shield degeneration badge? Appears to make shields weaker and promote a less defensive game. Smash Pit on YouTube documented the US of shield degeneration badge on his channel
Not that I know of. I for one don't care for testing obscure equipment like this because standardizing it is impractical.
 

VeggieSteel

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Has anyone tested slhg with the shield degeneration badge? Appears to make shields weaker and promote a less defensive game. Smash Pit on YouTube documented the US of shield degeneration badge on his channel
I think that most people here would like to swap out the item hitter badge for shield degenerator, if there was a way to get it with uniform stats.

A major determinant of our equipment layout is that all the equipment we use can be gained from the challenge wall, and thus will have the same statistics on every console, which matters a great deal.

Were some kind of debug mode or equipment customizer released, I think that shield degenerator would be a likely option for our third equipment slot, but as it stands now, there's no way to get it in a way that's convenient and fair for everybody.
 

Muro

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New YouTube video up, with 4 others awaiting upload.
Me and Reserved have been going ham with these new characters and buffs.
This is a good showcase for Ike for what I can tell. @san. you wanted to see Ike in action, this one I think showcases what he can do well.

Miiverse for offline play could be an alternate Battlefield (just like Omegas are alternate FDs), since both stages are quite similar.
Agree. Didn't think they were so similar before.

Has anyone tested slhg with the shield degeneration badge? Appears to make shields weaker and promote a less defensive game. Smash Pit on YouTube documented the US of shield degeneration badge on his channel
Not really, because it's randomly obtained. That would only be feasible if we could get it with the same stats and it didn't screw the stats too bad (the one we use right now doesn't have any influence). I only see that happening with some form of hacking, and even then it might be preferable to keep the current set for logistics sake and to avoid a PM situation.

In any case I think smooth lander, moon launcher and shield breaker would be the best combination. But we already have 2/3 so it's almost perfect and not a big deal at all.
 

ArtfulHobbes

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4 More replays have been uploaded today. 3 Were me and @ Aunt Jemima Aunt Jemima and one I actually had against a friend at my local scene who wanted to try it out. But these are my favourite 2.
This one of my Roy and Reserved's Lucas. Our movement and combo gameis iimproving, Reserved was still practicing his throw game here.

Edit: mobile sucks this one is for the video below and vice versa.

And this one showcasing the rewards of going out for edgeguards and playing your cards right.

I got a lot more with @Marachii as well. Roy and Falcon are so fun to watch with their speed and combo game. I'll record and upload them tomorrow.
 
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