Meta Smooth Lander and Heavy Gravity (SLHG)

[Muro]

I'm hype for dreamland

 

[TheDerp]

Been trying this build for a month, it's awesome dude!
I made up an edited build with this. You use Heavy Gravity and Mega size. Also, replace the Moon Launcher Badge with the Default Agility Badge.
I'm no expert, but I do know this makes Sm4sh act a whole lot like 64. Hitstun feels increased tbh.
I suggest making a big stage if you'll use this.
I made an account for SmashBoards cause I'm a random stranger that wanted to say that.

 

[Muro]

Been trying this build for a month, it's awesome dude!
I made up an edited build with this. You use Heavy Gravity and Mega size. Also, replace the Moon Launcher Badge with the Default Agility Badge.
I'm no expert, but I do know this makes Sm4sh act a whole lot like 64. Hitstun feels increased tbh.
I suggest making a big stage if you'll use this.
I made an account for SmashBoards cause I'm a random stranger that wanted to say that.

That's nice man, good to see you're having a good time.

We played around with some other setups in the beginning (check this post) but we eventually settled on the smooth lander, moon launher and standard agility. Stick around if you wanna play some matches

 

[blargh257]

They have to fix Roy's anti-tipper by giving him Lucy's hits at the tip and his old standards at the center or he sucks. He might still suck.
Ryu on the other hand has no expectations whatsoever.

 

[nannerham]

Roy's neutral b is still the same as it was in melee so he has that going for him.

 

[Muro]

music to my ears

 

[micstar615]

music to my ears

I would kill to have this stage in HD but dreamland 64 is still great

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Ladies and Gentleman. I have an announcement to make.

I will be doing a livestream of my live reaction to whatever else Sakurai has planned for us tomorrow during the mini direct at 7:40 am PT. Afterwards, we shall be downloading everything available to use and having a new character SLHG day! Please come and fight me once I start some online matches.

The stream will be found here: http://www.twitch.tv/artfulhobbes

 

[Muro]

Ladies and Gentleman. I have an announcement to make.

I will be doing a livestream of my live reaction to whatever else Sakurai has planned for us tomorrow during the mini direct at 7:40 am PT. Afterwards, we shall be downloading everything available to use and having a new character SLHG day! Please come and fight me once I start some online matches.

The stream will be found here: http://www.twitch.tv/artfulhobbes

I'll be there Hobbes. Post in this thread when it starts.

 

[nannerham]

SWEET JESUS GUYS THERES SOME ROY GAMEPLAY http://www.twitch.tv/crediar/v/6139915?t=17m38s
he has CRAZY GOOD air mobility,dash speed,and and hes actually not a full clone. It seems like he'll combo better than marth, our boy is looking pretty good.

EDIT: Welp the VOD was taken down ;-; the nintendo ninjas strike again.

 

[blargh257]

Ladies and Gentleman. I have an announcement to make.

I will be doing a livestream of my live reaction to whatever else Sakurai has planned for us tomorrow during the mini direct at 7:40 am PT. Afterwards, we shall be downloading everything available to use and having a new character SLHG day! Please come and fight me once I start some online matches.

The stream will be found here: http://www.twitch.tv/artfulhobbes

FIGHT ME. *slash slash*
I'll be on, I don't think I have anything planned. I just need to get my parents to buy some Wii U points so I can pay them for them.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

And I am live! Twitch.tv/artfulhobbes

I'll be having some friends over for some friendlies and playing Vanilla and SLHG so maybe not as many online matches... but whatever. Come on by!

 

[Muro]

This is the direct.

If you check 8:45 you'll see special smash selected as a tournament rule.

Also everyone will be able to upload videos to youtube now... awesome.

 

[blargh257]

This is the direct.

If you check 8:45 you'll see special smash selected as a tournament rule.

Also everyone will be able to upload videos to youtube now... awesome.

WE'RE SAVED!
(There's a chance we may only have FD but I'll take it.)

 

[blargh257]

ATTENTION EVERYONE (sorry for double post)
The Special Smash online glitch appears to have been patched out.
However, Special Smash should be playable online through tournament mode in about two months.
So, the scene for this shall now, apparently, take a two-month hibernation, but afterwards shall be able to exist presumably without fear.
In the meantime, please play IRL and lab Roy and Ryu and Lucas and such and keep uploading replays of IRL games if you can.

 

[Muro]

Updated title, back to offline we go lol. Gonna remove the online section now. Well, at least we have tournament mode to look forward to. Stay strong brehs.

 

[SaturnFrost]

>_< They removed slhg online?

 

[nannerham]

As sad as i am that we have to w8 2 months I gotta say that this balance patch is quite an interesting one some characters got noticeably better (especially my favorite lizard) maybe we can see pull off things we couldn't before. I can tell you right now falco got buffed his dair sweet spot is WAY easier to connect with, his fair faster so his edge-guarding has become much deadlier and his nair actually works consistently so his combo game because of that just became better. That's just one character, I'm excited to see what discoveries will be made and to see how borked ryu is.

 

[moofpi]

I don't follow SLHG much, but I cannot wait to see Ryu and Roy in this mode. So good.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

So online battles with SLHG has been put on hiatus for a couple months, but still. We'll be waiting until then. However... let us discuss.

Lucas, Roy, Ryu, and balance changes. Vanilla or SLHG what are your thoughts?

I'm not sure how to feel about Lucas yet. But the fact that he can Hoo-hah and also up-smash from down throw makes him pretty cool and will add a lot of early percent in SLHG. In SLHG though a short hop won't give him his full nair though I I'm not sure about that utility.

Roy feels soooooo good. Instant fire emblem favourite character now (But maybe Ike after his buffs we'll see). His pivot dashing is on point, his throws lead into perfect comboes and he has up-air, up-tilt chains on characters. And he can Ken combo confirmed. The lower landing lag of SLHG makes him a lot faster considering and I honestly see high tier potential in him. Also can I just say that the new animations where he backhands the sword are a nice touch.

Ryu.... I just don't know what crazy things we can see from him, and I'm not good or familiar enough with him to know the power of Ryu in Vanilla or SLHG. But he's gonna be good.

As for the balance patch. Sheik is still #1 although I here that chaining her fairs together got more difficult in this patch? Haven't tried in SLHG but thats good news. Charizards throws combo and kill throw are fantastic for him. Bowser has a much better hitbox, and faster animation on up-tilt so he can string those together. Falco from what I hear gets a buff good on him. And the two biggest character buffs I believe are Ike and Link.

Ike gets a faster f-tilt for better spacing, better landing lag on nair, and better hitboxes for his forward air and his jabs. Combine this with his throw comboes and he may be a lot better now.

Link also gains a better trajectory on down-throw leading into-up-tilts and an up-smash with kess whiffs. Thats a lot of damage in SLHG. His grab range has also been increased. Beware the Link now.

Discuss. What are your first thoughts?

 

[blargh257]

Lucas has the best footstool combos in the game as Greninja's and Ryu's are inoperable because they need aerials. It's basically down throw -> footstool -> spike hit dair -> up tilt -> stuffs.
He has a TON of stuff and is about on par with Ness.
I don't like how Ryu feels and I'm not sure how broken he is because he's built for a lot of combos in vanilla but the gravity messes with them. His up air is great though.
Roy is good but doesn't do a lot that Marth hasn't already done other than down throw for kill.

 

[LancerStaff]

Edit: Whoops, post got ate.

I'm just curious... How many of you know how to properly DI in SSB4? Because vectoring is still very much in the game. DI got a buff, but now the two interact in strange ways to make DI really unintuitive. For survival, aim for the corners with just left and right, unless you're going horizontally in which you hold in and down. To escape rapid hitting moves you rock the controller between up and up and out. To escape combos you hold up or up and out depending on the situation. Doing DI like you would in the old games will either kill you faster or keep you stuck in combos longer.

 

[ZADD]

Falco from what I hear gets a buff good on him.

Falco is SO good now omg. Everything connects so much better than it did before, and my D-air sweetspot is WAY more forgiving.
Edited: I wanted to upload this earlier but my laptop died. Some Falco stuffs.

I don't like how Ryu feels and I'm not sure how broken he is because he's built for a lot of combos in vanilla but the gravity messes with them. His up air is great though.

Ryu seems top-tier, but tbh at the speed SLHG is played it would be extremely difficult to have precise inputs. Ryu players in SLHG will be the very best of the best! Once he's off-stage tho, his recovery is like Sonic

I'm just curious... How many of you know how to properly DI in SS

What is SS? Special Smash?
I can DI just fine, even vector too.

 

[Muro]

Edit: Whoops, post got ate.

I'm just curious... How many of you know how to properly DI in SSB4? Because vectoring is still very much in the game. DI got a buff, but now the two interact in strange ways to make DI really unintuitive. For survival, aim for the corners with just left and right, unless you're going horizontally in which you hold in and down. To escape rapid hitting moves you rock the controller between up and up and out. To escape combos you hold up or up and out depending on the situation. Doing DI like you would in the old games will either kill you faster or keep you stuck in combos longer.

DI has the same effect as vanilla sm4sh, hits don't send you as far but keep the same hitstun as vanilla. You do the math.

Btw did you use the same build we're using? how long did you play? This seems like the opinion of someone who didn't try it at all.

 

[moofpi]

Hey guys, I'm having some real trouble getting the proper equipment. I know golden hammers, but the entire top part of my challenges are grayed out. With the Lucina cruel smash one, the backthrow trick was patched out. The 50k trophy rush is taking forever. What challenges did you guys fo to get close enough to use hammers and what ricks do you have to do them? I really want to set this up to play with my friends later today or at our weekly tomorrow

 

[Muro]

Hey guys, I'm having some real trouble getting the proper equipment. I know golden hammers, but the entire top part of my challenges are grayed out. With the Lucina cruel smash one, the backthrow trick was patched out. The 50k trophy rush is taking forever. What challenges did you guys fo to get close enough to use hammers and what ricks do you have to do them? I really want to set this up to play with my friends later today or at our weekly tomorrow

can't you just smash it? I don't think you need to do any other challenges.

 

[moofpi]

can't you just smash it? I don't think you need to do any other challenges.

You right. Thanks for saving me frustration, I was under the impression you could only smash blue squares

 

[ZADD]

Been pretty slow on the thread since the patch. So I thought I'd give it some life.

Here's a sweet Best of 3 I did with Roy (our boy). Donutz has gotten significantly better with Dedede...

 

[blargh257]

Here's something I thought about.
Debate: Is the change to Falcon in the new patch a buff or a nerf?
I can't really tell, down throw dash attack, what I and few others did beforehand, still operates, and up air goes more reliably into knee, but down throw becomes slightly less versatile and up air doesn't kill (it barely did anyway.)

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Been pretty slow on the thread since the patch. So I thought I'd give it some life.

Here's a sweet Best of 3 I did with Roy (our boy). Donutz has gotten significantly better with Dedede...

Couple of comments for the Dedede player:

Never use Jet Hammer, ever. Unless you're going for those fresh style points.

Needs to work on use of Gordo. It's one of Dedede's strongest options, yet he rarely used up-tilted Gordo. It's great for setting up ledge traps. Speaking of those, he tried that a few times but over committed to one option - usually f-smash, from this video. It's very obvious when he's going to do that, he needs to be more reactive to your option or mix-up his option.

He tended to rely too much on Inhale. Inhale is a great tool, but he needs to be more conservative with its use. He got punished a lot just for throwing it out in neutral. It's a great mix-up for landing and can throw your opponent's flow off otherwise.

He also seemed afraid to go off stage (understandable, given his worse recovery in SLHG) but that's where Dedede shines the most. He needs to be applying as much pressure as possible when you're recovering, especially since you are Roy with a pretty mediocre recovery.

I can't comment much on the specifics of his SLHG combo game (I main Dedede in vSmash 4 so I avoid using him here) but at one point he went on auto-pilot and tried to get the ftilt follow up off of dthrow when you were at 70-ish%. He could've easily chased with u-air there or caught your landing on the platform with an up smash.

I always like seeing a Dedede player since they're so rare, so hopefully you can pass some of this stuff on to Donutz to help him improve. His dthrow seems really powerful under heavy gravity, he should definitely work on his follow ups from that and his edge-guarding. That lodged gordo that popped you up into the fsmash was god-like, though.

 

[ZADD]

I can't really tell, down throw dash attack, what I and few others did beforehand, still operates, and up air goes more reliably into knee, but down throw becomes slightly less versatile and up air doesn't kill (it barely did anyway.)

U-air's change is definitely noticeable in SLHG, even if it isn't in Vanilla. It seems much easier to chain U-air into Knee than it was before. He needed this IMO.

Ike is top-tier guys. His overall reduction in landing lag is further extended by Smooth Lander, making Ike the most threatening Heavy by a large margin.

With Falco's changes, he is definitely better than Fox (or at least more consistent). His pressure game is exceptional now.
N-air is incredibly forgiving, U-air no longer has a sourspot, D-tilt true combos into D-air

Idk if i hate to say it or not, but Diddy is noticeably bad.. He's basically Mario with a terrible recovery.
He can't even Hoo-Hah in SLHG for a combo, let alone a kill...

 

[san.]

1.0.8 Ike in SLHG sounds pretty tough to beat. Are there any videos? He can probably chain many nairs and uairs together, throw combos are likely devastating, and I don't think his recovery is hindered all that much.

 

[ZADD]

1.0.8 Ike in SLHG sounds pretty tough to beat. Are there any videos?

I have a replay, I'll capture/upload it for the sake of the thread.
I prefer a badass, hard to beat Ike over a sluggish, punishable one.
He is still really vulnerable to strong defensive characters tho [ ,,,,,]

 

[blargh257]

1.0.8 Ike in SLHG sounds pretty tough to beat. Are there any videos? He can probably chain many nairs and uairs together, throw combos are likely devastating, and I don't think his recovery is hindered all that much.

There's one but it's not much of a demonstration. I have a video in which I do one Ike combo but it's odd, in 1.0.5 (or so,) and in awful quality.
He works a bit like PM Ike. Dthrow is better for comboing at lower percentages but up throw has basically no knockback growth and is really good for kills. I tried to play him against people but wasn't really comfortable with his speed. He's mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

[san.]

Okay, thanks. To clarify, I meant 1.0.8 Ike, sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[ZADD]

This replay is 1.0.8, but keep in mind Donutz and I aren't good with these characters. I tested his landing lag at the start to see for myself, and ended up saving the replay. N-air can chain really well, and kills fresh ~175%

Debate: Is the change to Falcon in the new patch a buff or a nerf?
...up air goes more reliably into knee

Here's another video to show the boost in U-air > Knee. At 3:12, and almost at 3:20 ಥ_ಥ

 

[Muro]

1.0.8 Ike in SLHG sounds pretty tough to beat. Are there any videos? He can probably chain many nairs and uairs together, throw combos are likely devastating, and I don't think his recovery is hindered all that much.

Hah not 1.0.8 (haven't played the game since the patch) but these were my impressions early in the thread:

Has anybody tried out Ike? I've been playing around with him, I think he's pretty cool. His nair is a combo starter, as is his d-tilt, down throw and up throw. Back throw and forward throw send on a very down/horizontal trajectory, which is really bad offstage and forces a tech chase onstage. If you side b right away after back/forward throw it covers almost every option I think. Up air is a good air dodge killer in itself, but since you don't have that much lag while landing it frame traps into up tilt nicely. His recovery is not too bad, but he shouldn't really be going offstage to edgeguard, since his aerials take a long time to complete if you don't land with them. Instead he can wait onstage and charge his neutral B, since it hits well below the ledge. I've been able to hit shiek out of her sweetspot with it.
edit: also, who doens't like to rock the black knight skin?

what buffs did he get? he's my secondary along with falco so this patch was very good to me (well, if we ignore they patched special smash online out lol)

 

[san.]

Hah not 1.0.8 (haven't played the game since the patch) but these were my impressions early in the thread:



what buffs did he get? he's my secondary along with falco so this patch was very good to me (well, if we ignore they patched special smash online out lol)

Confirmed

Video:

Credit goes to @ksizl4life for the great video!

Code (lacks changes to specials):
Credit to @Thinkaman

Ike
---
Jab1
    transition to jab2
        frame 13 -> 10
Jab2
    new hitbox added as hitbox 1; old hitbox 1 changed to hitbox 2
    hitbox 0
        y 8.0 -> 7.5
    new hitbox 1
        angle 80 (others are 65)
        kbg 80 (others are 80/100)
        wbg 25 (others are 40/50)
        size 3.5
Jab3
    hitboxes appear on frame 7 -> 6 (1 frame faster)
    hitbox 3
        size 2.5 -> 3.2
    hitbox duration 3 -> 4 frames
Dash Attack
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 0-17 (3 frames faster?)
    hitboxes appear on frame 18 -> 17 (4 frames faster total?)
    hitbox 0
        damage 10 -> 14
        angle 55 -> 52
        kbg 70 -> 78
        size 6.0 -> 6.3
        hitlag 1.0 -> 1.2
    hitbox 1
        damage 8 -> 11
        angle 55 -> 52
        kbg 70 -> 78
    hitbox 2
        damage 5 -> 9

Ftilt (all)
    animation speed 1.25x for frames 0-14 (2 frames faster?)
    hitboxes appear on frame 15 -> 14 (3 frames faster total?)
    all 3 old hitboxes replaced with 1 new one
    new hitbox
        bone 1000 -> 1
        damage 14/14/12 -> 12.5
Utilt
    initial hitbox
        y 12.0 -> 13.0
    delayed hitbox
        y 10.5 -> 12.0
        lasts until frame 19 -> 22 (duration 5 -> 8 frames)
Fair
    hitboxes appear on frame 16 -> 14 (2 frames faster)
    hitbox 0
        y 9.0 -> 10.5
    hitbox 1
        y 6.2 -> 6.75
    hitbox 2
        y 4.0 -> 3.0
Some 1.25x animation speed added to a couple unknown minor actions (non-attacks)

Community gathered changes (has specials):

Spoiler

-Ftilt
>Faster startup: 15 frames -> 13 frames
>Sweetspot damage reduced: 14%->12.5%. The sourspot has been buffed: 12%->12.5%

-Dash attack
>startup reduced: 18->15 frames
>damage increased: Sweet spot: 10%->14%. Sour spot: 8%->11% and 5%->9%

-Nair
>Less landing lag by 3 frames. Attacks that were a few frames from working such as 0% nair->dtilt and low % nair->utilt are now guaranteed.

-Fair
>Hitbox better follows visual animation. Hits better above and below him. The hitbox now starts directly above Ike: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHf4qnwUkAAAf75.jpg:large
>Has less landing lag by 1 frame

-Uair
>Has 3 frames less landing lag

-Dair
>Has 3 frames less landing lag

-Quick Draw(Side B)
>Startup reduced: 19->16 frames

-Jab1 and jab2
>Jab1 can transition into jab2 quicker than before.

-Jab3
>Hitbox properly covers its animation. The hitbox begins above Ike.

-Aether
>The suction properties were tweaked in some way. It may be better in some areas and worse in others. Part of it feels reminiscent to how Brawl's aether worked while the sword was thrown upwards.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

@ blargh257 Here is what I think happened... because people have posted they feel differences with Sheiks fair and Falcon's Down throw. DI may have changed... either making is more powerful or people have adapted and actually started DIing those moves. Just my thought.

 

[cerealkiller]

Hah not 1.0.8 (haven't played the game since the patch) but these were my impressions early in the thread:



what buffs did he get? he's my secondary along with falco so this patch was very good to me (well, if we ignore they patched special smash online out lol)

Ike is your secondary? I don't think I've ever fought your Ike. I guess I'll have to wait 2 months.
Yes, given your secondaries, this patch was gold for you.