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TDK
Frihetsanka
current vote compilation, since I'm late to the voting period
It all depends on how willing you are to accept results. Link does not have the results of a lower mid-tier character, no matter which way you look at it.
at least.
I just want to point out that a Japanese player (was it Abadango?) thinks Link is within the top 24.
Yeah it was Abadongo. Olimar, Lucina, and especially Link all had high controversial votes in the official tier list's data, so I assume those 3 will see some placement issues here too.
Let's be careful here.
While it may be a stretch at the moment, I believe that in the future it will be a definite reality.
at 7th named Kuro (according to the wiki). Pit certainly doesn't have the most representation, but it is present. 
Bowserboy3
If it's not too much trouble can you put a "last updated ___" on the thread title. I remember the last thread being like that. I would know when to check for updated tier placements, thanks!
+ 1-1
-1
-1
+ 1
+ 1
(I'm saving my actual final vote)
I think he should be in the same tier as Pikachu, Toon Link, etc.
You beat me to it.
This has also been done now. Thanks for the suggestion.
is at a -2 pin for at least two times in a row now.
I think it would be better to update more frequently. I'm guessing a lot of people think like "Oh, it doesn't update in a while" and then they forgot to vote. If it updates, say, every 4 or 5 days, then people would have more incentive to get their votes out early, and we'd get more movements in the list faster (and we'd get to vote more, which is fun). Most people vote in the first three days anyway.
I totally agree. It's pretty annoying when someone edits their post without mentioning who they switched out, since it's hard to remember. I personally use strike-through
I think he's high tier, good results from Day, Motsunabe, and TsuDefinity bottom tier. Terrible frame data, rediculously bad matchups, etc.What are you doing up thereWorst character in the game.---+-
(Can't believe I have to waste a vote on this, but I don't have anything better for a 5th vote)
I'm not seeing him being quite this high at this point. He does a lot of damage and knockback, but his mobility and recovery is unimpressive, and his frame data hurts his ability to use most of his attacks. Not to mention that his results have dropped recently, with Ryo and Ryuga using Corrin more and other Ike players struggling to crack top 16. Not that these characters are bad or anything, but they haven't proven themselves to be as high as the characters around them, putting them at mid-low for the moment.TL;DR Amazing theory with lots of potential, as most of you know. But iStudying isn't the only one doing well with him as some people are led to believe, there are several other players all around the world doing consistently well with him. He deserves high tier, even if only the lower part of it, especially now that some characters might be moving two tiers above him.
(Mid tier is perfect for these 3. They have clear strengths to preform quite well in battle, but they contain clear weakness that prevent them raising to high tier)
Why they decided to nerf this character multiple times, I'll never understand. What, was Dedede too fast or something? I'd put money on him being the worst character in the game, I honestly think all the other Bottom Tiers are better than him. Not quite as bad as Brawler imo, but still pretty terrible. 1111 Gunner is better than the other two, but Gunner still should be one tier below where they are now imo. I desperately want to believe this character is good, but unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case.
While I do agree that Guest 1111 Gunner isn't the strongest character on earth he is still able to keep up with other characters. He does decent against majority of the top tiers even with the 1111 moveset. Diddy, Cloud and Sheik are considered to be "evenish", Ryu and Bayonetta are considered to be slightly in favour of Gunner while Mario, Luma and Sonic are considered to be bad MUs from the top tiers. Gunner's main issues are his weak recovery, lack of reliable kill options and poor landing game. I want to point out that Gunner does have a lot of ways to kill (Smashes, even tho they do have some connection issues, Up and Down Tilts along with strong edgeguarding and ledgeguarding games). In general his place is in the mid tier. Just like many mid tiers he is a fuctional character with clear pros and cons just like Ike, Link etc. I hate wasting my vote for this... I personally think that Wario is somewhere between mid and high mid. Tbh I think that a lot of characters belong to mid/high mid tier like Link, Ike, Robin, Wario etc.
Ike's better than all of the characters in the tier below his current one, and better than a handful of the ones in his current tier. He should be at the lower end of his current one.
You nailed it. I mentioned it in my Defense of Pac-Man, but Abadango's past results are nothing to sneeze at, especially since Pac-Man has been (albeit slightly) buffed since then. This means that Pac-Man's theory is indeed proven well, so he should stay as a pretty good contender. There have been several characters that have risen above him in the past months, sure, but even if he falls to "bottom 15" or wherever, he should still be "mid tier" because he's proven his theory, if that makes sense. In fact, I only have 15 characters at max below the ideal "mid tier" on my tier list with no bottom tier, which I feel accurately reflects the current meta.
, should that mean Jiggs shouldn't be bottom 3? back in the day and even beating Nietono's Diddy? Secret mid tier, am I right?
tier lists should have tiers, I doubt anyone can argue Sheik isn't top 5 at minimum. I think 4 tiers above mid would really help create some separation, particularly because there are so many characters above mid that aren't necessarily high. Speaking of which.. I could see greninja maybe being at the very bottom of this tier, but given the characters in the tier below him that's not really justified. Definitely characters in the tier below I see greninja at par with. Still feel this needs to be done. Bowser does his job really well, comparable to DK who's in the tier above him anyway. Changed to: There's enough justification between theory and ESAM's results to keep Pikachu in the tier he is, so here's a countervote. Last time I wrote a long post about this it mostly got ignored, so tl;dr- if japan's tournaments and S@X results were switched solely by location, more people would argue the pits were in the tier above. The number one mid I think should go to low-mid, although just barely over pac.
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You could essentially call the "master tier" Top Tier - High, and then rename your current "Top tier" to Top Tier - Low.Votes thus far:
Moving up to Master tier (name pending): [3
Top tier: [2
High tier: [0
High-mid tier: [1
Mid tier: [2
Moving down to Low-mid tier: [-3
Low-mid tier: [1
Moving down to Low tier: [-4
Low tier: [1
We could, but I think that's underselling some of the characters in "Top Tier - Low". I think characters like Mewtwo, Cloud, and Rosalina & Luma are still beastly characters and deserve to be called Top tier characters, not Top tier - Low characters. If enough people think some characters stand above the rest then I think the better option would be to choose another name, such as: Über tier, Mega tier, Top tier Plus, Top tier Alpha, Master tier, God tier, or something like that. I'm not convinced Sheik and Bayonetta really are that much stronger than the rest that they really need a tier of their own (maybe together with Diddy Kong and Sonic, I suppose), but we'll see what people think. I think the differences between characters in upper high tier and lower high tier are more noticeable.
I wouldn't say it's "just" my opinion. It's my opinion combined with logical progression based on what tier names are commonly used. Mid tier is the only official one, and it makes sense to consider the tier above as high-mid, and the tier below as low-mid. The tier about high-mid would generally be high, and the tier below low-mid would generally be low. With that being said, there are some people who don't use high-mid and low-mid (although those terms seem very common on the forums). ZeRo, for instance, used "upper" instead of "high-mid". I kind of like that term, but the term "high-mid" is fairly established amongst the community, so I'll stick with that for now.
What we did last time was first vote like we're doing now, then we ordered each character within each tier, and after that we actually got to vote about the amount of tiers and where to split them up. I think we should do that this time as well. That way we could start with a few tiers (6 or 7) and then eventually increase it to 8 or 9, if people want that (I personally prefer having a limited amount of tiers since I think the game is balanced enough to do that, and it gives a better overview).
– She doesn't need her own tier. – He's not an especially good character, but he's not bottom five. – See Sheik. – Another countervote. Doesn't have that many results from what I've seen, and has a lot of trouble landing. Not terrible, but not really much higher than he is currently based on results and theory.
To be fair, if you look at the official 4BR tier list, there are 11 characters in Top Tier, with 7 of them in the "high" or "upper" side, and 4 of them in the "low" or "lower" side (i'm not saying what the 4BR tier list says is the truth/gospel, but it's a prime example).
I think the 4BR list is underselling Bayonetta, and possibly Mewtwo as well. That leves 2 character in "lower top", which isn't that great (and even then, Zero Suit Samus doesn't strike me as much worse than Mario or Fox). Given the choice between those two options, I think having a tier above top tier (for Sheik, Bayonetta, Sonic, and Diddy Kong) would be preferable. Even then, I think having one top tier (with 10 characters) would be ideal for now. Perhaps I'll change my mind it turns out that Sheik and Bayonetta are more dominant than I thought.
/*//*/x 3x 2x 2x 2x 1x 1x 1x 1x 1x 1x 1x 1x 1x 1was actually the most represented character in the top 16. The idea of her being "figured out" or "becoming less relevant" needs to die, if you ask me., in up to the top 24 still makes it questionable if Diddy really is the best character, or if he is, how much better he is.is still yet to grab that 1st placement, and yet to prove he can compete in top level on a solo run (though Tweek's 13th place is still very solid).clearly didn't live up to expectation. I still think she's fantastic, but I'm kind of glad she didn't win, so to speak, in the end (inb4 "bayonetta needs more nerfs").'s relevancy in todays metagame even more.is able to compete at top level, performing better than supposed "better" characters, like,,, and (the latter two of which were notably absent too).is likely being undersold in general, now adding this to his 7th at Smash Con. "Mid tier/irrelevant" my foot, I say.in top 16, due to Larry Lurr being eliminated by Tweek, placing just 17th.,and . I had my own personal doubts cast on , but I am glad she ended up placing overall highly too.players out there.appearing twice here, cementing his top tier status even further.
+1: Lucario should be a high tier character (I don't think Lucario is top tier though).+1: Counter-vote. Pikachu should still be high tier, not high-mid.-1: Dr. Mario should be low-mid tier.-1: Dark Pit should not be a tier above Pit.-1: Mii Swordfighter 1111 seems somewhat weak.
