Smashboards Community Voted Tier List: Version 4 COMPLETE! Break for a few months...

[Dusk Pit]

+
+
-
-
-

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Frihetsanka Olimar is only at +2 now.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Frihetsanka Olimar is only at +2 now.

Thanks.

A note to everyone: It would be helpful if you also made a new post when you edit your post, since it makes it easier to keep track of things.

 

[Routa]

+ Only character that I should rise if you ask from mii (Routa plz kill yourself already... bag miime is bad)
- Have really hard time seeing him so up when his moveset is eh due to pikmins being projectiles which brings a lot of issues. Even tho Dabuz have been taking names with him... Well... I'm a person who primarily judges characters by their tools and Alph's tools are far from impressive.
-Can't really say much about the char. I'm pretty sure everyone here are aware of his flaws and how much they limit him.
- Horrible disadvantage state and very limited options in neutral. He will do a lot of damage if he gets in and if he gets AD read, but outside of that..? Not that great. No wonder why people like Trifroze dropped him in favour of ZSS.

I will save last vote for later.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Things are going a little slower than usual this round. I usually like to update after around 5-6ish days if we have received a fair amount of votes, but I will wait until we have had a decent amount, even if it means leaving it at least a week.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Things are going a little slower than usual this round. I usually like to update after around 5-6ish days if we have received a fair amount of votes, but I will wait until we have had a decent amount, even if it means leaving it at least a week.

Probably because the tier list is mostly accurate right now, so there's less need to actually vote. Perhaps reducing the number of votes per person to 3 next round would make things easier, since it can be hard to figure out what to do with the 5th vote (I still haven't used mine, for instance).

 

[Bowserboy3]

Probably because the tier list is mostly accurate right now, so there's less need to actually vote. Perhaps reducing the number of votes per person to 3 next round would make things easier, since it can be hard to figure out what to do with the 5th vote (I still haven't used mine, for instance).

I already said I'd be doing that, so don't worry.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I already said I'd be doing that, so don't worry.

I know, I was just theorizing that it might help at this point (earlier it would've slowed down the process though, but now it might not, since most characters are in the correct tier already).

The current votes are pretty interesting, though. Plenty of characters at -2. Will they move down, or will people counter-vote and save them (or just leave them at -2)?

 

[Phuckyew]

+I believe Lucas is relevant enough in the current meta to warrant placement in tier 3.

+I know potential is a buzzword at this point, but Peach is a character with some crazy tricks and some decent results for a character with such a high skill ceiling. I believe what keeping her down at the moment is the fact that shes countered pretty hard by and requires a secondary to get around him. Even with this, I can only see her rank improving as the metagame progresses.

+ COUNTER VOTE: In terms of theory/results (lol results) I would say she's more on par with tier 6 than 7. I understand has better results overall due to Tweek, but I would argue this to be a similar case to TheReflexWonder's back in brawl days.

- A tad bit overrated atm. I can see him at the top of tier 5, but no higher than that.

Saving my last vote in case some d̶u̶m̶b̶a̶s̶s̶ uninformed individual tries to downvote again.

 

[Bowserboy3]

+I know potential is a buzzword at this point, but Peach is a character with some crazy tricks and some decent results for a character with such a high skill ceiling. I believe what keeping her down at the moment is the fact that shes countered pretty hard by and requires a secondary to get around him. Even with this, I can only see her rank improving as the metagame progresses.

I'd also argue that Peach is just incredibly hard to master, so that keeps her grounded more than she theoretically could be.

I personally have no real gripes seeing Peach go up. I'm not really for or against it, but I feel like she could theoretically go higher, especially now her players are starting to show up and put up, so to speak.

Though, aside from Link (Link's pretty debatable, so he's either or really), I pretty much agree with your votes (including the Marth bit at the bottom). I also personally agree that Samus is more tier 6 material as opposed to 7. She's got a lot of positives to her that characters in tier 7, and some even in tier 6 would kill for. Decent rep and results as far as characters on the lower end of the spectrum go is another thing she has.

 

[Routa]

+ Only character that I should rise if you ask from mii (Routa plz kill yourself already... bag miime is bad)
- Have really hard time seeing him so up when his moveset is eh due to pikmins being projectiles which brings a lot of issues. Even tho Dabuz have been taking names with him... Well... I'm a person who primarily judges characters by their tools and Alph's tools are far from impressive.

-Can't really say much about the char. I'm pretty sure everyone here are aware of his flaws and how much they limit him.
- Horrible disadvantage state and very limited options in neutral. He will do a lot of damage if he gets in and if he gets AD read, but outside of that..? Not that great. No wonder why people like Trifroze dropped him in favour of ZSS.

I will save last vote for later.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

+
-
-
-
-

Samus ain't moving even though she really should along with a good chunk of T6 so

- changed to -

 

[Y2Kay]

+
+
-

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

+1
-1
+1
-1
+1

 

[PGH_Chrispy]

The bottom tiers should not be as far removed as they are. Voting to move them up to tier 7, since they are (IMO) almost on par with Bowser Jr.

+1
+1
+1
+1
+1

 

[Frihetsanka]

The bottom tiers should not be as far removed as they are. Voting to move them up to tier 7, since they are (IMO) almost on par with Bowser Jr.

While I don't necessarily disagree with you on this, it might lead to (and it has in the past) people believing tier 7 is bottom tier, tier 6 low, tier 5 low-mid tier, tier 4 mid, tier 3 high-mid tier, etc. I think 8 tiers is fine for now. I also doubt many people are willing to upvote all characters in top 8 right now, seeing how we just got them to tier 8 in the first place.

 

[Zerp]

+1 I want (the current) Tier 7 gone.
-1 Countervote, like I said earlier I want to stop tier 7 from continuing to be a thing.
+1 Just making sure he doesn't fall into Tier 7
-1 Also making sure she doesn't go to Tier 7.
+1 blabla Tier 7 blabla

 

[Frihetsanka]

What's your reasoning for wanting Tier 7 gone?

 

[Zerp]

What's your reasoning for wanting Tier 7 gone?

I just don't see any point in it sticking around other than it looking pretty, there's no character in the game that I believe is a entire tier of viability below Charizard but somehow also a entire tier of viability above Ganondorf and friends, it makes the gap between the Bottom Tier characters and the characters in the current Tier 6 much bigger than it should be imo.

 

[ISuckAtSmash]

Here's MY vote.

+1

+1

+1

-1

-1

-1

 

[Frihetsanka]

You only get 5 votes, not 6.

 

[PGH_Chrispy]

+1 I want (the current) Tier 7 gone.
-1 Countervote, like I said earlier I want to stop tier 7 from continuing to be a thing.
+1 Just making sure he doesn't fall into Tier 7
-1 Also making sure she doesn't go to Tier 7.
+1 blabla Tier 7 blabla

As I understand it, if we vote all characters out of Tier 7, we'd simply be stuck with an empty tier between 6 and 8. I can't bring myself to believe there is a significant difference in tournament viability between Ganondorf+friends and the next tier up, like Bowser Jr/Falco/Roy+friends

 

[Deleted member]

Ay Bowserboy3 my dude, you gonna update?

 

[Bowserboy3]

Ay Bowserboy3 my dude, you gonna update?

In perhaps a day or so. I don't want to update when I don't feel enough votes have been cast. Things have been a little slower this time.

 

[Wintermelon43]

In perhaps a day or so. I don't want to update when I don't feel enough votes have been cast. Things have been a little slower this time.

If things are going too slow, I could talk about Marth

 

[Bowserboy3]

If things are going too slow, I could talk about Marth

There's no point, you know nothing about the character, and you'd only be spouting lies and theorycraft...



but no, please, we don't need this now, bring somebody else up

 

[Wintermelon43]

There's no point, you know nothing about the character, and you'd only be spouting lies and theorycraft...



but no, please, we don't need this now, bring somebody else up

It was a joke, don't worry, I know it causes too much problems.

(Also I never stated lies about Marth)

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

It was a joke, don't worry, I know it causes too much problems.

(Also I never stated lies about Marth)

Just edit that second part out of your post, and we'll avoid more unwanted flaming.


EDIT:

Starting with a vote that I'm surprised very few people are doing:

+1 Please, people! Everything about her screams that she's good enough to rise to tier 3: she has great results with Samsora, SlayerZ, Ling Ling, Kie, and Umeki; she has high "poTENshul", especially with her float mechanic; and her current move set has notable moves of D-tilt, U-smash, three of her throws, all of her aerials, and three of her specials (side-B is pretty safe on shield with low end lag and high shield damage).

And my other votes:

+1 Dabuz's secondary Olimar has proven to be the downfall of many high-level players, Shuton is doing really well in Japan with the character, and people like Myran, Angbad, and even ImHip are still showing up. Shouldn't he be tier 3?
-1 I just don't see him doing as much as the characters around him. His results are still quite lacking, and his theory still suffers from bad mobility and certain moves being straight downgrades of Fox's moves (dash attack, F-tilt, up-B).
Zero Soul brings a good point about tier 7, so I've removed that vote.
+1 *sigh* I hate that I have to waste a vote here, but when people blatantly ignore the facts, I can't let them dictate his placement.
Cool, people are no longer ignorant.
+1 I want him to be on the same level as Ness to accurately reflect the current meta game, and since both of them have upvotes, this seems like the logical vote.
-1 So his last result at a pseudo-national was 2nd at Shine, but looking at it realistically, the only big threat to ESAM's Pikachu was ZeRo. Besides that, Pikachu's only notable results are at regionals, showing that he doesn't have what it takes to be among the national threats in tier 2.


Those are pretty much my only critiques with the list right now. It's looking pretty good!

EDIT: Added Marth upvote.
EDIT 2: Removed Marth upvote.
EDIT 3: Added Lucas upvote and Pikachu downvote.
EDIT 4: Removed Falco downvote.

Removed Falco downvote, as Zero Soul has brought up a good point about tier 7. I'll wait until Frihetsanka updates the current votes to see what I should use my last vote for (heck, it might even be a Falco upvote if need be).

 

[Sleek Media]

+ (DABUZ uses him when Rosa isn't enough)
+ (craps all over idgaf about bThrow)
+ (she's numbah 1 boyz)
- (great, but tier? lol)
- (can't do **** without footstool jank, has like one big performance where half his opponents in t8 sd'd)

 

[Bowserboy3]

+ (she's numbah 1 boyz)
- (great, but tier? lol)

To be fair, is one of the most successful characters in competitive play as a whole, better than most characters in tier 1.

And on another point, characters are not ranked in tiers yet, so with already being in the highest tier, she could be ranked number 1 later down the line when we start ordering individual tiers (which I say now is still very debatable; she's not easily the best character in the game at all).

Unless your vote was to put Bayonetta into her own tier, to which I say is ridiculous. Bayonetta is not Brawl Meta Knight, nor does she have solid overwhelming reasoning to be 1st place, let alone in her own tier.

 

[Sleek Media]

If it's unordered, then consider my vote to be for putting her in the #1 spot. You can make the case that or give her a run for her money, but nobody else in the cast is even playing the same sport, and among the three, which should be in their own tier BTW, she is by far the easiest to play, has the best recovery, best comeback potential, best OOS options, best punish game, a f1 spotdodge and airdodge that is effectively a counter, the best counter in the game, need I go on?

is a great character with amazing frames and the best uSmash in the game, but he also has a big weakness in his lack of range. His recovery is also exploitable if your character has something that can beat out the SJP hitbox like a counter. Unlike those three, Mario does have some bad MUs, and you can counter pick against him. Yeah he has results, but he also has 10x the number of players, even compared to most of the high/top tiers, and some of his players are among the best.

I don't see how Mario can be above characters like much less . You can tell the difference when fighting him. He can't just run away and camp until he gets his charge up or item in hand. It's safe to press your advantage, which doesn't even exist in some of the above. He doesn't have an easy kill out of a throw, or the ability to cover every ledge option with a single move. To me it feels more like fighting Villager or Ryu. If you play into their hands, they'll wreck you because they are very very good, but you don't have to play the game they want to play. You have some control over the pace of the match. That's why I think he should be tier 2.

 

[Deleted member]

Super Jump Punch is intangible.

In tangent with his high air speed and being able to Cape stall, it makes him surprisingly difficult to gimp.

Funny how you say all those characters are better when none of them have experienced the stunning success Marlo has. Winning two majors including the largest in Smash 4 history is no joke.

 

[QualityQ]

In addition to what has already been said, I'll throw in that also has FLUDD which is a very good tool in slower games where the opponent tries to force Mario to approach. It has a huge hitbox and is great for retaining stage control, simply by pushing someone off the ledge and forcing an advantage state. So if fireball isn't enough for range he has that option too.

Mario may have one of the larger playerbases, but it's a large playerbase that does very well! Unlike some other characters who have a large playerbase but not many results from it.

If any of the tier 1's should move to tier 2, I'd argue for instead, although even that is a bit of a stretch. Her neutral is probably the weakest of that tier and she has the least # of options in terms of kill confirms. In fact, if you can avoid upair chaining and upB in general, it can be hard for zss to finish someone off.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I'll wait until Frihetsanka updates the current votes to see what I should use my last vote for (heck, it might even be a Falco upvote if need be).

Not sure if I will before the next update. I'm not quite sure what we're doing with ISuckAtSmash 's votes, since he voted for 6 characters. Do we ignore the 6th vote (the Ness downvote), or do we ignore his vote altogether? Assuming he doesn't edit out one of the votes himself.

Bowserboy3

 

[Sleek Media]

Super Jump Punch is intangible.

In tangent with his high air speed and being able to Cape stall, it makes him surprisingly difficult to gimp.

Funny how you say all those characters are better when none of them have experienced the stunning success Marlo has. Winning two majors including the largest in Smash 4 history is no joke.

SJP isn't intangible. It has some early i-frames, but you can knock him out of it. Cape stall is risky. If you read it he should be dead. If you read an air dodge offstage he should be dead. SJP doesn't afford him any mistakes, which is objectively worse than a lot of recoveries, and all of the top tier character recoveries.

"B--b-but results" doesn't cut it. Players have too much influence over results at this stage of the meta for it to be the main consideration. That's how you get tier lists where characters end up shuffling all over the place. If you want something accurate and lasting, you have to do some analysis.

 

[Deleted member]

SJP isn't intangible. It has some early i-frames, but you can knock him out of it. Cape stall is risky. If you read it he should be dead. If you read an air dodge offstage he should be dead. SJP doesn't afford him any mistakes, which is objectively worse than a lot of recoveries, and all of the top tier character recoveries.

"B--b-but results" doesn't cut it. Players have too much influence over results at this stage of the meta for it to be the main consideration. That's how you get tier lists where characters end up shuffling all over the place. If you want something accurate and lasting, you have to do some analysis.

This is the same person who made a post about how Cloud was braindead and lessening the value of the meta (where hell, you even compared his uair to Mario's utilt, uair and reward off dthrow), so I don't have any real right to take you seriously.

Mario is definitely high tier and will most likely always remain top 10. The character has too much flexibility, safety and reward for him to be much worse.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

+

 

[Sleek Media]

This is the same person who made a post about how Cloud was braindead and lessening the value of the meta (where hell, you even compared his uair to Mario's utilt, uair and reward off dthrow), so I don't have any real right to take you seriously.

Mario is definitely high tier and will most likely always remain top 10. The character has too much flexibility, safety and reward for him to be much worse.

Scathing. Yeah, what do I know. Tell us all about the immense technical skill Cloud requires. LOL. What a pro.

 

[Deleted member]

Scathing. Yeah, what do I know. Tell us all about the immense technical skill Cloud requires. LOL. What a pro.

There is a reason pocket Clouds practically almost never work at top level play unless you're ANTi. Get off your high horse, bro.

 

[Sleek Media]

There is a reason pocket Clouds practically almost never work at top level play unless you're ANTi. Get off your high horse, bro.

#4665

Ouch. That's embarrassing.