Smashboards Community Voted Tier List: Version 4 COMPLETE! Break for a few months...

[Kirby Dragons]

My last vote is -.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

EDIT: Removed -1 because no one's helping me with that, and replaced it with:

-1 He used to do good, but since FOW dropped significantly, Ness has greatly dropped off in the meta game. I don't see him as nearly as big of an active threat as most of the characters on high tier, and rather on par with his current tier.
-1 So people don't want Palutena to move up, yet they're fine with Kirby moving up? Something doesn't seem right here, considering how much better Palutena has done much more than Kirby everywhere.

(back to old votes)

-1 Sorry if you agree with ZeRo, but she is not interchangeable with Marth. If she were, then we would see an equal amount of Marth and Lucina at top level, and that's simply not the case.
-1 Yeah, not seeing what keeps him this high. ANTi only took one stock and then got destroyed the next one.
+1 I can accept low-mid tier, but bottom 12 is too far. She's led a few players to very good results consistently!


This tier list is shaping up pretty nicely! These are my biggest critiques with it right now, with close calls being Captain Falcon -1, Peach +1, Ike -1, Olimar +1, and Dr. Mario -1.



It's the latter. The fourth tier is where all the characters started, so it is the middlest of mid tier, and from there each tier is like a plus or minus instead of an entire letter difference (that's how I think of it anyway, judge it how you like).

Edited my post. Removed -1 because no one's helping me with that, and replaced it with:

-1 He used to do good, but since FOW dropped significantly, Ness has greatly dropped off in the meta game. I don't see him as nearly as big of an active threat as most of the characters on high tier, and rather on par with his current tier.
-1 So people don't want Palutena to move up, yet they're fine with Kirby moving up? Something doesn't seem right here, considering how much better Palutena has done than Kirby everywhere.

 

[Deleted member]

Edited my post. Removing -1 because no one's helping me with that, and replaced it with:

-1 He used to do good, but since FOW dropped him, he's greatly dropped off in the meta game. I don't see him as nearly as big of an active threat as most of the characters on high tier, and rather on par with his current tier.
-1 So people don't want Palutena to move up, yet they're fine with Kirby moving up? Something doesn't seem right here, considering how much better Palutena has done than Kirby everywhere.

FOW didn't drop Ness, he's just taking a break from the game.

People in here really don't want to think Palutena is an alright character either, I guess. = P

 

[lbrasz44]

Just finishing up my last two votes
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[Frihetsanka]

My current votes:

+1 (Counter-vote, Lucina should be Lower High tier.)
+1 (Ness should be Lower High tier. Sure, FOW isn't active right now, but that doesn't change how good Ness as a character is.)
-1 (Samus should be Low-mid tier.)

I'm not really sure about my remaining two votes. I'm on the fence when it comes to Palutena, she's either near the end of regular Mid tier, or at the top of Low-mid tier. So far the Mid tier people have made a stronger case, I believe, so I'll upvote her for now. I might change my vote later if someone makes a good case for Palutena in Low-mid tier.

+1 (I'm inclined to put Palutena in Mid tier.)

The tier list is starting to look pretty good if most of these changes go through! I'll save my last vote for the time being, I suppose.

Edit:
-1 (Counter-vote. Sheik is good, but she's not good enough to be a tier above everyone else, or everyone but 2-3 other characters.)

Edit 2:
+1 (After some discussion, it was clear that a lot of people wanted a new tier, and the best way, in my opinion, would be to split high tier into two. In order to do so the current highest tier have to move up and the best characters in High tier, like Meta Knight and Mega Man, have to move up to the tier where Diddy Kong and Cloud are currently in. We'll see if this works, but for now I'll help move up Diddy Kong.)

 

[Y2Kay]

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[ShadowGuy1]

Now, I just wanna mention something I don't like about this thread - People subtly hinting on what to vote on and many times saying votes are questionable. I don't like this at all because this a is a community tier list, where everyone has their own votes that should not be influenced by other voters. Also I believe we should not assume what the tiers name are and instead spend a day discussing them. This was just something I wanted to get off my chest, that is all and it isint meant to offend anyone.

 

[mario sucks]

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[Frihetsanka]

I don't like this at all because this a is a community tier list, where everyone has their own votes that should not be influenced by other voters.

If this were a list of what kind of food people enjoy the most, then I would agree with you, since the answers of such questions would have more to do with taste than anything else. The tier list is, however, supposed to be objective rather than subjective, as far as possible, correct? It should be based on logical reasoning and fact. With that being said, I doubt any of us know this game perfectly, and we may use different data and different theorycrafting to support our votes. If someone has some data that we're missing, such as, for instance, that Prince Ramen beat ZeRo with Palutena, or that T has done well with Link in Japan, then that data should be brought up so people can make well-informed decisions.

People may still, in the end, vote for what they believe. Some people believe that Palutena is Mid tier, while others believe that Palutena is Low-mid tier. Wouldn't it be better if both sides made their arguments, based on results, other data, and theorycrafting, instead of people just voting and never questioning anything? I think people should be influenced by arguments other people bring up, as long as those arguments are strong. This isn't a perfect solution, and in some cases a skilled writer will convince people that character X is Y instead of Z when character X is, in fact, Z. Still, this thread seems to hold a relativity high standard, so I doubt that'll be much of an issue.

Also I believe we should not assume what the tiers name are and instead spend a day discussing them.

Sure.

We currently have 6 tiers. They look like this:

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The starting tier is the tier Bowser and Mr. Game & Watch are in now. This would make a solid foundation for Mid tier. I would argue that the majority of characters in Smash 4 fall into somewhere in mid-tier, so it would be a good idea to split Mid tier into three parts: High-mid tier, Mid tier, and Low-mid tier. This is pretty standard. So the tier above, with Yoshi and Peach, would be High-mid tier. The tier below, with Kirby and Roy, would be Low-mid tier. This seems reasonable to me. The tier below Low-mid tier should be Low tier, and the tier above High-mid tier should be High tier. After High tier comes Top tier, with Bayonetta, Sheik, Diddy Kong, etc.

I think that's how the tier list should be viewed right now. I would further argue that all 10 characters currently in top tier are beasts and are close enough to each other to deserve to stay in the same tier. I don't believe the same is true with High tier. Some characters in upper High tier, such as Ryu, Mega Man, Meta Knight, and Marth, have significantly better results than some of the characters in the lower end of High tier, such as Greninja, Corrin, Captain Falcon, and, assuming they move up, Pit and Ness. It might thus be a good idea to split High tier into two at some point, perhaps Upper High tier and Lower High tier? Or High tier+ and High tier-? Or High tier and Upper tier?

Still, it would be hard to make such a split right now, so my suggestion is that we keep High tier intact for now, and then split it near the end of the voting period (like we did last time). So for now, I think it'd be a good idea to stick with 6 tiers, and later on consider splitting High tier into two.

 

[mario sucks]

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Edited.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Now, I just wanna mention something I don't like about this thread - People subtly hinting on what to vote on and many times saying votes are questionable. I don't like this at all because this a is a community tier list, where everyone has their own votes that should not be influenced by other voters. Also I believe we should not assume what the tiers name are and instead spend a day discussing them. This was just something I wanted to get off my chest, that is all and it isint meant to offend anyone.

You have basically summed up the point of this tier list. Thank you. People seem to forget this.

Discussion is good, but you can't force people to swap votes based on their opinions. All in all, the bigger opinion will prevail.

So, as an example, perhaps Palutena really isn't as good as a few users are making her out to be, because as many people are upvoting her, there are as many downvoting her. You can't call users out for thinking one way or the other, because there is no general consensus.

I have also said, time and time again that there are no definite tier names or rankings right now, but people do seem to disregard that in a sense.

All I ask is that everyone just keep voting based on their own opinions; don't let somebody else tell you that your vote is not right, or that you can't really vote X character because they are already in a specific tier. Vote based on what YOU want. Why do you think I keep voting characters like Sheik up? Because I want to see another tier. Why do you think Wintermelon43 keeps voting Marth down? Because he doesn't want to see him there (even though his opinion is wrong, kek).

---
With that out of the way, I think I'll try and update about this time tomorrow. Anybody saving votes for later, it might be a good time to use them. Anyone waiting to vote, vote now!

 

[Frihetsanka]

I updated my vote with a Sheik down-vote since she was apparently at +3, which would mean she'd end up in a tier above everyone else. Then we'd see people upvoting Fox, Mewtwo, Bayonetta, Sonic, Cloud, Rosalina & Luma, Diddy Kong, leaving Zero Suit Samus and Mario in a tier of their own. That would be awkward.

I think at this point in time, the 10 top tier characters are all really strong characters. There is no need (in my opinion) to divide them with a tier. Is Sheik really that much better than Mario or Zero Suit Samus?

I have also said, time and time again that there are no definite tier names or rankings right now, but people do seem to disregard that in a sense.

Just because there's no official tier names doesn't mean we can't make unofficial ones, right? A lot of people (me included) find tier lists with some definitions of what the tiers mean easier to understand and follow than tier lists that, well, don't. Thus a lot of people start viewing the tiers certain ways, and most people seem to have chosen a similar view (though not all).

In general, I'd much rather see some discussion and then have people vote rather than people counter-voting without any discussion. So far, most/all of the discussion has been civil and it seems to me that people haven't been overtly aggressive towards other people. I don't think I've really seen much of people saying that a vote isn't right (at least not in a way that I found problematic).

 

[QualityQ]

I think that's how the tier list should be viewed right now. I would further argue that all 10 characters currently in top tier are beasts and are close enough to each other to deserve to stay in the same tier. I don't believe the same is true with High tier. Some characters in upper High tier, such as Ryu, Mega Man, Meta Knight, and Marth, have significantly better results than some of the characters in the lower end of High tier, such as Greninja, Corrin, Captain Falcon, and, assuming they move up, Pit and Ness. It might thus be a good idea to split High tier into two at some point, perhaps Upper High tier and Lower High tier? Or High tier+ and High tier-? Or High tier and Upper tier?

I would argue creating a new top tier would inadvertently correct this problem. By creating a tier above the current "top tier," most top tiers would then be moved into it, and then we could vote as to which 'high' tiers would move up a tier vs. which would not.

It doesn't matter which character moves first- sheik, fox, whoever- since a later voting period would allow more characters to be added.

Just think of what you call "top tier" as "Upper High tier," and high tier will split itself for you.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Just because there's no official tier names doesn't mean we can't make unofficial ones, right? A lot of people (me included) find tier lists with some definitions of what the tiers mean easier to understand and follow than tier lists that, well, don't. Thus a lot of people start viewing the tiers certain ways, and most people seem to have chosen a similar view (though not all).

I'm not saying, for example, don't come up with your own views and make your own unofficial tier names, because that makes it easier for individual voters to find what they want to vote on.

What I AM saying is, we shouldn't question people's votes, saying for example "why are you upvoting X character? They're already high tier", or even "Looks like character X is going up to mid tier, should they be?" This is still seen quite often.

All I ask, is that we don't force opinions on people (not that we have been doing, but there have been times when it's been close) and let people vote based their own opinion. The whole point of this kind of voting is to let it the tier list pan out naturally based on overwhelming majority opinions. Forcing your own opinions out is like setting restrictions down, and defeats the point of the list.

I am also not saying don't discuss votes; discussion is good. If somebody up votes a character for example you feel doesn't need up voting, sure, question it, but don't tell people their votes are wrong or they shouldn't be voting that because of your opinion on what the tiers are. Instead of "Do you really think (for the sake of argument) Jigglypuff should go up into lower mid tier?", try "Do you really think Jigglypuff should be amongst the likes of (again, for the sake of argument) Shulk, Ike, Wario etc?". This is still discussion, but it's not forcing an opinion on users, but in a round about way, it's still essentially the same thing.

--

Reminder again, I will be updating later today, so get your last votes in.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I would argue creating a new top tier would inadvertently correct this problem. By creating a tier above the current "top tier," most top tiers would then be moved into it, and then we could vote as to which 'high' tiers would move up a tier vs. which would not.

It doesn't matter which character moves first- sheik, fox, whoever- since a later voting period would allow more characters to be added.

Just think of what you call "top tier" as "Upper High tier," and high tier will split itself for you.

This solution could work. It would mean all 10 characters would have to move up a tier, which would take a while. We'd also have to move up characters from Lower High tier to Upper High tier (like Marth, Meta Knight, etc). How many people want this solution? How many people want high tier split into two? Then again, most other tiers look really good right now (once this voting period is over), so maybe we can "afford" to spend a few rounds moving up the top tiers to a new tier.

I'd like to see what people think. Should I rename the tiers in the "Votes thus far" to "Upper High tier" (the tier Fox, Mario etc are in now) and "Lower High tier" (presumably with characters like Corrin, Captain Falcon, and Ness)? Or should I keep them as is? Keep in mind that they are still unofficial.

 

[MarioManTAW]

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My thoughts on the current positions:
Top: Looks good. could move down.
High: Mostly good. should probably be lower.
High-mid: Fine as is.
Mid: Mostly good. could go down. should be lower.
Low-mid: Probably fine. and maybe could go down.
Low: Good as is.

If we were to create a new tier, I'd want to leave the top half alone and add a new "bottom" tier. This would probably fix up the naming issues. If a new bottom tier were to be created, changes I'd like to see:

The low tier would become the bottom tier, with the addition of and maybe .
Low-mid would be moved to low, leaving in low-mid.
About half of mid tier would move down to low-mid: ( could even be lower)
To compensate, several characters from high-mid would be moved to mid:
If necessary, could move down to high-mid.

What would everyone else think about adding a tier at the bottom instead of the top? I think it would be better, because the top half is already almost perfect, plus, naming would be a lot less complicated with a tier at the bottom than with a new top tier.

 

[Bowserboy3]

This solution could work. It would mean all 10 characters would have to move up a tier, which would take a while. We'd also have to move up characters from Lower High tier to Upper High tier (like Marth, Meta Knight, etc). How many people want this solution? How many people want high tier split into two? Then again, most other tiers look really good right now (once this voting period is over), so maybe we can "afford" to spend a few rounds moving up the top tiers to a new tier.

I'd like to see what people think. Should I rename the tiers in the "Votes thus far" to "Upper High tier" (the tier Fox, Mario etc are in now) and "Lower High tier" (presumably with characters like Corrin, Captain Falcon, and Ness)? Or should I keep them as is? Keep in mind that they are still unofficial.

I would say the top tier should be "upper high tier", but that's the thing, you can't really "rename" these unofficial tiers, because for as many people who will say "name it Upper High Tier", there will be as many who will say "keep it as Top Tier". This is part of the reason I've got beef these kind of things that get shared, because it's almost like trying to make a decision on something that we are letting pan out naturally. I can't stress enough that we have to stop setting things in stone right now. Whether it's unofficial or not, sharing things like that puts those ideas into voters heads. Part of me wants to ask you to stop sharing this stuff, but in some ways it is genuinely helpful. Perhaps a better way for you to do things is to use the example in the paragraph below, and when showing how characters are moving, say "Moving up from 2 to 1", for example.

I've decided,

Starting from next round, the tiers will have names, but not words; they will be numbered from 1 through however many there are. That way, you voters then can still view tiers individually how they want to, but discussion on tiers can be for example "You think Marth should be in tier 1 as opposed to tier 2?" This method also means no tiers are locked in stone; calling the highest tier we have now "top tier" for example low key sets it in stone and says "we have a top tier, we can't add another".

 

[Frihetsanka]

If we were to create a new tier, I'd want to leave the top half alone and add a new "bottom" tier. This would probably fix up the naming issues. If a new bottom tier were to be created, changes I'd like to see:

My issue with the term "bottom" tier is that it makes those characters seem really bad, and I don't think they actually are. Ganondorf has been winning locals, for instance, and LeeT's Jigglypuff did somewhat well at Shine 2016. It also raises the issue of Low tier. I, at least, draw a distinction between Low-mid and Low tier. Characters like Roy, Kirby, and Wii Fit Trainer should be Low-mid, not Low tier.

About half of mid tier would move down to low-mid: ( could even be lower)

I strongly disagree with Bowser, Duck Hunt, and Link in Low-Mid. Dr. Mario, Samus, and maybe Pac-Man should be Low-Mid though.

To compensate, several characters from high-mid would be moved to mid:

I disagree about all of those. They deserve to be High-Mid.

If necessary, could move down to high-mid.

I think they should be in Lower High tier.

I would say the top tier should be "upper high tier", but that's the thing, you can't really "rename" these unofficial tiers, because for as many people who will say "name it Upper High Tier", there will be as many who will say "keep it as Top Tier".

Yes, this is true. I kind of wish we'd just vote on tiers first and then try to place characters in various tiers, that would reduce a lot of confusion and counter-voting. For instance, let's say I think the current highest tier should be Upper High tier, and the tier above should be Top tier. Then I would upvote every character that is currently in the highest tier, since they should be top tier, and I would also upvote characters like Mega Man, Marth, Ryu, and Meta Knight, since they are currently in Lower High tier, and I'd want them in Upper High tier. But if someone views it at Top tier and High tier, then they might counter-vote my upvote for Meta Knight, since Meta Knight isn't top tier (and I agree). This is why I'd prefer if people had a similar ideas of what tiers mean.

Whether it's unofficial or not, sharing things like that puts those ideas into voters heads. Part of me wants to ask you to stop sharing this stuff, but in some ways it is genuinely helpful. Perhaps a better way for you to do things is to use the example in the paragraph below, and when showing how characters are moving, say "Moving up from 2 to 1", for example.

It would appear that we have almost the opposite views. I think having actual names is much more helpful than "tier 1, tier 2", etc, since what 2 means to one person is going to be vastly different from what 2 means to a different person. Meanwhile, "High-Mid" and "High tier" are a bit clearer, though it's still not 100% clear.

For instance, if a character is tier 4 or D tier, that sounds pretty bad to me. If a character is High-Mid it doesn't sound as bad anymore, does it?

Anyway, I will give the whole "We don't have a top tier" thing a shot. I'll rename my "Votes for now" list for a round or two (or more) and we'll see what happens. If it leads to massive counter-voting I'll change back. Note that my list is in no way official.

Edit: I updated my vote and changed my Sheik down-vote for a Diddy Kong up-vote. I also changed the unofficial tier names for my "Votes thus far" list. We'll see how this works, if it creates too much counter-voting I'll go back to the old (unofficial) tier names.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

waits for updates

 

[Bowserboy3]

Terribly sorry folks. I meant to update yesterday... life is fun!

Gimme a couple hours, just gotta get my stuff together, I'll be slowly updating from now, and will let you all know as soon as it's complete, like normal.

So for consistency sake...

UPDATING NOW

 

[Bowserboy3]

UPDATED (finally)

Looks like we finally have another tier. Whether we just want a few characters in there, or need to shift almost a whole tier up, we have plenty of time to do so; I won't be stopping this kind of voting yet (for reference, we're probably about half way there).

I was thinking of changing the rules to make it we have 3 votes each, now that we're a fair way into it, but with the creation of this new tier, I think I'll keep 5 votes per voter for a fair few rounds more.

Spoiler: Rules

• You have 5 votes to play with. +1 and/or -1 up to 5 different characters.
• Characters are not ranked within tiers at this point. You are voting to establish their tiering position.
• Remember, it takes +/-3 to move a character 1 tier, and +/-10 to move them 2 tiers. No character can move more than 2 tiers during each phase.
• Please vote on the list at the time of voting. While you can vote based on what you like, things such as "X character will probably get votes later so I'm down voting now etc" isn't the best way to do it.
• and can be joined together to count as one vote if you vote for one or the other. However, you can still vote on them individually if you so desire.

An example vote:

+1
+1
-1
+1
-1

Spoiler: Current List

Version 4.0.7 - Tiers are not named, and characters not ranked within tiers.

1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7:

For now, my votes are to get some characters into that tier with Diddy and Sheik; I feel a lot of the characters in the 3rd tier should move into the 2nd tier, but they shouldn't be with the likes of the characters in said tier, hence, me trying to move some (most) of them up, to create the correct room.

+1 Bayonetta
+1 Sonic
+1 : Purely a countervote to keep him where he deserves to be
+1 : I said my piece here on this character and why he is being foolishly underrated and doesn't deserve to move down again- https://smashboards.com/threads/new...nitial-movements.441533/page-14#post-21508908
+1
+1
+1

 

[Deleted member]

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[Nidtendofreak]

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Holding onto last vote

 

[Frihetsanka]

So, the way I see it, there are two main ways to view the current tier list. Option A:

Top tier:
Upper High tier:
Lower High tier:
High-mid tier:
Mid tier:
Low-mid tier:
Low tier:

Option B:

Upper Top tier:
Lower Top tier:
High tier:
The rest are the same.

I think option A is better. All top tier characters are similar in power, but high tier is divided between characters that have shown time and time again that they are really strong in the meta, and characters that are good but lack the results to really match up with other characters. Thus, Upper and Lower High tier seems like a reasonable line to draw.

So, my suggestion: Upvote every character currently in tier 2 (Upper High tier) to tier 1 (Top tier). Upvote some characters in tier 3 (Lower High tier) to tier 2 (Upper High tier). Some characters I believe should be tier 2 (Upper High tier): Marth, Mega Man, Meta Knight, Villager, Ryu.

I'm really happy with how the tiers below High tier look right now, they look fairly accurate overall.

 

[AlphaSSB]

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[Kirby Dragons]

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[Frihetsanka]

Are people downvoting Mii Gunner because they've watched some top level Mii Gunners and thought the character just wasn't that good? When I watched top level Mii Gunners the character looked somewhat decent, certainly better than Guest 1111 Brawler and Swordfighter.

Also, I think it's about time we had some discussion about Palutena. She keeps moving up and down, it would be interesting to see what proponents of her moving down and promonents of her staying mid tier would have to say.

 

[TDK]

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[Ethan7]

How I think the names should be:
1st as "Upper Top tier"
2nd as "Lower Top tier"
3rd as "High tier"
4th as "Upper Mid tier"
5th as "Lower Mid tier"
6th as "Low tier"
7th as "Bottom tier"

Anyways, my votes:
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[Frihetsanka]

Some preliminary votes (I might change if I don't get enough help):

(Mega Man has proven time and time again that he's one of the best characters in High Tier and thus deserves to be in Upper High Tier.)
(Meta Knight has great results, enough to put him in Upper High tier rather than Lower High tier.)
(Watch Ranai play Villager. He should be Upper High tier.)
(Ryu's results are not as bad as people say they are. He might not be Top tier, but he's at least Upper High tier.)

I think both Toon Link and Marth are Upper High tier as well. I suppose I'll save my last vote for now.

Edit: It doesn't seem like I'll get enough help to move any of those up this round, so I'll use my vote for some other characters this round and hope that next round more people will be willing to help those characters move up to Upper High tier.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

7 tiers?

Top
High Tier
Upper Mid
Middle Tier
Lower Mid Tier
Low Tier
Bottom Tier

Can't get tied up over "but this game is so balance and bottom tier sounds so bad". The fact remains its the most logical naming scheme. We have a giant cluster of characters that are mid tier, a reasonable amount of high tiers and top tiers, a group of low tiers, and yes a small selection of bottom tiers. And those at the bottom truly are at the bottom of the tier list. So, ya know, we should be calling the bottom of the tier list... the bottom. Just like how the top of the tier list is called the top. And the middle of the list is called the middle. Shouldn't be playing the "B-But their mains will feel bad!" game, its as silly as the "there's no such thing as winning or losing" for little kid leagues of sports. There are winners and losers. There is the best character and the worst character. There is top tier and bottom tier.

Don't get hung up on names, care about who's sharing the same tier as X character.

 

[Frihetsanka]

7 tiers?

Top
High Tier
Upper Mid
Middle Tier
Lower Mid Tier
Low Tier
Bottom Tier

This doesn't work, since tier 5 is Mid tier. I also think it means most characters should move up a tier. And it's not like we couldn't create a new tier if we wanted a bottom tier (we could, I suppose).

Another alternative:

Top
Upper High
Lower High
Upper Mid
Mid
Low
Bottom

I personally don't like this, but all systems are unofficial anyway. I don't think we need to really focus on "x amount of characters in y tier" and such, if the game were really balanced we'd probably have 40 high tier characters or so, and maybe no low tier characters at all.

I think the Reddit tier list is an interesting example. There are tiers from S to D, although no character was currently voted into D (Jigglypuff C-), and no character was voted into S. Here's the most recent: http://imgur.com/a/hd5dw

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Mid is not 5

Mid is 4. Upper Mid is 3, Lower Mid is 5.

There would also be no need to "move most characters up a tier". You're getting hung up on the names of tiers. What should matter is which characters are in the same tier as the one you're looking at. Nothing more. If you're getting more hung up on them being "High Tier" instead of "Upper Mid" tier even if the list of characters they're sharing the spot with is literally the exact same, you've got your focus in the wrong place.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Mid is not 5

It's actually the closest to an official tier that we have.

Well, think of it like this.

Every character is considered equal right now - think of them all as being in mid tier.

And that tier is tier 5. Since then, a lot of characters have moved up and many have moved up as well.

If you're getting more hung up on them being "High Tier" instead of "Upper Mid" tier even if the list of characters they're sharing the spot with is literally the exact same, you've got your focus in the wrong place.

I disagree with this as well. Tier names matter, since they tell us something about the character. Characters like Robin, Lukas, and Olimar should be High-mid tier thanks to their fairly good results. If they are, as you say, Mid tier (which would be strange since every character started at Mid tier, and those characters moved up), then I would argue that they should move up. Anyway, since Tier 5 is the starting tier it makes sense to consider that Mid tier. Whether tier 6 should be considered Low tier or Low-Mid tier is up for debate, but Tier 5 being Mid tier is the closest to an official tier we have.

Also, if you truly believe that tier 3 is High-Mid, why are you downvoting Corrin and Pit? Do you think Corrin doesn't even belong in High-mid? If tier 5 is Low-Mid, why downvote Palutena? Should Palutena be Low tier?

Anyway, it's good to discuss what the tiers mean, I suppose.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Frihetsanka , with due respect, I appreciate you trying to bring some discussion into this, but this whole talk on tier names has got to stop. It's taking control, and zapping the main aim and fun out of the voting process. I myself am starting to get bored, and I'm pretty sure other users are feeling the same way.

This doesn't work, since tier 5 is Mid tier

I deliberately said, literally a few posts back that we need to stop forcing opinions on others. Saying "this doesn't work", when somebody is stating their own opinion, is just that.

When we get around to locking the tiers, we'll be all ears waiting for your opinions on tier names, but for now, just move the characters about.

I can't stress enough that TIERS ARE NOT NAMED. This is to anybody, DO NOT under any circumstance say "X tier is (insert tier name here) until we get around to confirming names". Keep your own views to yourselves, and vote based on those views. That is the point of a community tier list, to let each individual community member share their own view on the tier list, and let the prevalent views shine through.

Any more talk on tier names for a while, I'll be ignoring votes, plain and simple. I don't want it to be this way, but it's getting boring now. It really is making this place uncomfortable and not fun.

 

[Deleted member]

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[L1N3R1D3R]

+1 If we're going to have another tier up there, Sonic deserves to be in it with his fantastic representation and great results to support his theory.

-1
None of these characters fit in the tier that they're currently in. They all have obvious flaws in their theories that are exploitable to the point of them being rarities in big tournament, with Lucina being the closest call: Kogarasuma and occasionally Nairo's pocket, Fatality and Tearbear and maybe Pichi and Gluttony's secondary, and S1 and maybe FOW and Taranito are not nearly enough representation or results to match the characters in their tier and many of the characters in the tier below. Speaking of which...

+1 She just keeps looking better and better every day. Her only weakness at this point is low mobility (and her terrible Meta Knight matchup), but with her float mechanic, she can still approach, combo, rack damage, and kill very well. Samsora, SlayerZ, Ling Ling, and Umeki among many others have done wonders for her meta game to prove this.

 

[JayZee1700]

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[QualityQ]

Bowserboy3 I hope the no-tier-name-talk rule doesn't apply to his current votes chart that Frihetsanka has done in the past. Those were really useful, simply to see what major changes were being made to the list in the particular voting round.

Anyway:

+1 as I see them as being the best choices of tier 2 to move to tier 1

+1 / as a countervote;

+1 Ranai, and with the sheer amount of characters now in tier 3 I think Villager can be moved up

-1 Although there's a lot of characters in tier 3 I don't agree with, Falcon sticks out the most. Very exploitable, very linear gameplan, very weak disadvantage. Generally characters in higher tiers should be consistent with many different tools, and C. Fal is none of these things.

-1 Popularity contest much? Mid is fine for Link. We can't just have everyone high-mid. This could be something in the future, but there's not nearly enough justification for this yet.

 

[Samuelwisebaggins]

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Since characters are not ordered in tiers, does that mean votes less than +-3 are not carried over between rounds? For example, if was +2 last round, is he +2 or 0 this round?