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Smash WiiU & 3DS Miiverse Daily Pic - March 12th

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Smash Wii U & 3DS director Masahiro Sakurai says "Pic of the day. Zelda's Din's Fire is now stronger in its core. The farther it's projected, the bigger and more powerful it will be, but you need to hit foes with the core if you want to make them fall."

 

Tollhouse

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Good ****. This is what I like to see. Link's been given improvements too, so it's not like Sakurai doesn't care about the Zelda characters. I bet Ganondorf will receive the same treatment.
 

ITALIAN N1NJA

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Good ****. This is what I like to see. Link's been given improvements too, so it's not like Sakurai doesn't care about the Zelda characters. I bet Ganondorf will receive the same treatment.
I pray to the almighty helix fossil that Link doesn't play like he did in Brawl. A Link like PM would be perfection. I just hope he doesn't make Link bad because he wants to have "ooo Toon Link is fast Link and Link is slow and heavy" for the love of God at least buff that God-awful recovery. It felt like when I used it Link decided to put on a pair of the Iron Boots. It's nice to see the outstanding attention to detail with the gameplay.
 

ITALIAN N1NJA

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I just pray this game has the speed of Melee/PM.
It looks closer to Melee. It seems to have brawls' air dodge mechanic though. That means no wave dashing. Honestly I'm cool with no wavedashing as it's an odd unconventional method of faster movement, but I understand it's usefulness and do use it in PM. We really won't be able to know until we see some solid gameplay of matches. The game looks like it's coming along amazing and I think it would be awesome if Sakurai had demo kiosks at E3 this year. Then people could analyze gameplay.
 

Jaedrik

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Who is she even hitting?
. . .
Oh, that's Toon Link.
And even from this distance I can see her poppin dat hip out with a torso twist doe.
What does 'make them fall' mean? I'm guessing he means launching an opponent.
 

Tollhouse

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I pray to the almighty helix fossil that Link doesn't play like he did in Brawl. A Link like PM would be perfection. I just hope he doesn't make Link bad because he wants to have "ooo Toon Link is fast Link and Link is slow and heavy" for the love of God at least buff that God-awful recovery. It felt like when I used it Link decided to put on a pair of the Iron Boots. It's nice to see the outstanding attention to detail with the gameplay.
Well Link's down aerial is a meteor smash and from the first trailer it looks like his ground spin attack has more knock back now. Already I'd say Link plays a bit differently.
 

link2702

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@ StaffofSmashing StaffofSmashing

if this move still has the horrible delay from when she releases it to when its hitbox comes out, sorry, but this move is still going to be worthless. Nobody ever considered dins fire a threat, not because its "damage was too low" but because its easily dodged.

So long as its just as easy to dodge as before, then zelda still won't have a camping game period, and unless they give her some truly insane buffs in other areas that she actually NEEDS THEM IN, she also won't ever be top tier.

buffing either moves that don't need it, or the wrong things about moves that do, does not automatically make a character better.

If the fatal flaws are still there, then no amount of damage increases will help it.


its the same thing with link, making his down air a meteor smash isn't going to help him much. judging from what we've seen, his recovery is still horrid like before, and with all the ending lag of Dair, it would be ridiculous for a link to ever even attempt to use it as a meteor smash to attempt to KO someone offstage. That would just be setting him up for disaster. It honestly better with its strong damage and knockback that sent players flying at the top of the screen, and if it lost that property of it then it could actually be viewed as a nerf.
 
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StaffofSmashing

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@ StaffofSmashing StaffofSmashing

if this move still has the horrible delay from when she releases it to when its hitbox comes out, sorry, but this move is still going to be worthless. Nobody ever considered dins fire a threat, not because its "damage was too low" but because its easily dodged.

So long as its just as easy to dodge as before, then zelda still won't have a camping game period.
NINTENDO DIRECT, SHOW US THIS
 

EmLeingod

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Sakurai said that the speed is in between brawl and melee
Things tend to change a lot in game devlopement. What he said several months ago is not reflective of the game that will come out several months from now.
 

Sonicguy726

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Things tend to change a lot in game devlopement. What he said several months ago is not reflective of the game that will come out several months from now.
But I think he will stick to that, he wants to satisfy the melee and brawl players
 

Rickster

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Soo, is this a buff or a Nerf? Or maybe a combination of the two? Maybe he means that the middle is stronger than Brawl's but the outsides are equal to or weaker than Brawl's.
 

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Well Link's down aerial is a meteor smash and from the first trailer it looks like his ground spin attack has more knock back now. Already I'd say Link plays a bit differently.
The meteor smash is a welcomed addition. The spin attack looks aesthetically more powerful. But we have no idea of the percentages any of the characters were at during the match in the trailer. I do hope the spin attack gets a buff. That move is supposed to be risk/reward. It has a slower start up because it should be powerful.
 

Thane of Blue Flames

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I could see this being a very good edgeguarding tool for Zelda OH WAIT.

This game will be annoyingly defensive as long as there is no limit on air-dodges. Frankly the way the air-dodge works there is no downside to using it. SHADs are even an approach in Brawl. You don't want to send people into special fall after air-dodges anymore, I can get behind that, but put a limit on it so that it is strategically employed and risky to use up, instead of making it easy to escape juggles and edgeguard attempts. Sigh.
 

Domo-dono

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I just pray this game has the speed of Melee/PM.
I agree with you to a certain extent. In my opinion, ground and air mobility should be just as quick as either of the two, preferably melee. However, (and this is my opinion) wavedashing should never have been a thing. It gives me the same feeling that I get when I watch the movement patterns in high level Tekken play (in the neutral game). It looks awkward and broken.

In fact, and again this is in my opinion, I'm hoping that there are enough gameplay mechanics changes in Smash 4 that it feels completely different from each of the other smash games. I think I speak for some when I say that playing Melee at a competitive level, is incredibly difficult because of how many buttons needed to be pressed per second. If I'm not mistaken, Melee players perform 6 inputs per second. That's 1 input every 10 frames on average. When top players like Hungrybox, for example, mention how their hands can't keep up half the time, or M2K mentioning how he has all sorts of hand pains, says a whole lot about the game.

This justifies why, when watching streams in Melee and PM, you see players on camera grimacing as often as they do. I agree, I thought that a bunch of smashers were just awkward on camera to begin with, but after a little bit more analysis, it's clearly bigger than that. They're trying to time a large array of inputs within a small window on reaction, and it requires a lot more focus and hand-eye coordination from the players than those who play other competitive fighters.

This is my opinion, and I'm not trying to put down the games as they are now, but I can't ignore some of the issues. I really hope Smash 4 is easier on the hands, but just as (if not more) entertaining to watch as Melee or PM.
 

ChikoLad

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Still waiting to see some type of buff for mario lol.
Watch the Mario VS Mega Man match that was shown at E3, and pay attention to the amount of damage Mega Man receives when Mario hurts him. I've noticed that Mario's damage output, if finalised from that point on, is definitely buffed.
 

Thane of Blue Flames

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If you're using Din's Fire in neutral you're doing it wrong. Way I see it if you're not doing it like P:M does it, you want Din's Fire to be a strong combo finisher. That's what this looks like: 1, 2, 3 combo string, BOOM Lightning Kick, not dead yet? Perfectly aimed Din's before you're out of hitstun. Good edgeguarding tool, good combo extender, possible hard punish for mistake.

But only if they speed it up, make it as powerful as this post implies and do something about airdodging.
 

DaDavid

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Does "make them fall" mean get knocked back?

If so does that mean that getting hit by anything other then the core will not serve as a way to get kills?
 

DrizzyDrew

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sounds like sakuari is buffing a lot of moves. I would love to hear what moves are getting nerfed and adjusted
 

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What does he mean by "make them fall?" My guess is it was a weird translation error thingy, but it doesn't seem to make much sense, especially in the context of the picture. My first thought is maybe he meant "Send them into tumble," whereas the rest of the explosion will just flinch, or maybe even just do damage, like Fox's blaster.
 

Delzethin

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This game will be annoyingly defensive as long as there is no limit on air-dodges. Frankly the way the air-dodge works there is no downside to using it. SHADs are even an approach in Brawl. You don't want to send people into special fall after air-dodges anymore, I can get behind that, but put a limit on it so that it is strategically employed and risky to use up, instead of making it easy to escape juggles and edgeguard attempts. Sigh.
You make a fair point. Maybe make it so after using an airdodge, players cannot use another one for 1-1 1/2 seconds, along with a visual cue so both players and opponents know that character is vulnerable?

...Can I say I'm really glad you acknowledged the flaws in how Melee handled it? The fact that you couldn't safely dodge offstage meant that the only way to protect yourself from edgeguarders was to hit them with a higher priority attack than the one they were using, which just further contributed to how hyperoffensive and overcentralizing the metagame became.
 

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Thankfully if I had to pick between Brawl and Melee air dodges, I'd pick Brawl and that seems to be the case.

Not so thankfully, just because I'd choose between those two doesn't mean I'd be happy in being forced.

I agree that some sort of limit needs to be implemented, or maybe have it simply give less invincibility to force dodges to be more precise.
 

ChikoLad

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I personally thought air dodges in Brawl were perfectly punishable and had to be accurately timed as it was.
 

Silverjay323

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@ StaffofSmashing StaffofSmashing

if this move still has the horrible delay from when she releases it to when its hitbox comes out, sorry, but this move is still going to be worthless. Nobody ever considered dins fire a threat, not because its "damage was too low" but because its easily dodged.

So long as its just as easy to dodge as before, then zelda still won't have a camping game period, and unless they give her some truly insane buffs in other areas that she actually NEEDS THEM IN, she also won't ever be top tier.

buffing either moves that don't need it, or the wrong things about moves that do, does not automatically make a character better.

If the fatal flaws are still there, then no amount of damage increases will help it.


its the same thing with link, making his down air a meteor smash isn't going to help him much. judging from what we've seen, his recovery is still horrid like before, and with all the ending lag of Dair, it would be ridiculous for a link to ever even attempt to use it as a meteor smash to attempt to KO someone offstage. That would just be setting him up for disaster. It honestly better with its strong damage and knockback that sent players flying at the top of the screen, and if it lost that property of it then it could actually be viewed as a nerf.
True, buffs to individual moves hardly ever means buffs to the entire character. But a buff is a buff nonetheless. I see what you mean, but just because one feature is highlighted doesn't mean the rest of the package is the same. It is also pointed out that it gets larger as it travels, hence making it more difficult to avoid and a decent edgeguard.

Same for Link, who we've actually seen more of. His Up B, seen in the first trailer right before Samus' final smash, DOES appear to go higher than in Brawl, at least to my eyes. As for vertically....we don't know but it could hurt him. Dair likely works like an extremely more powerful version of Toon Link's which is actually quite nice, since it still allows it to KO onstage, like ganon, and offstage, and possibly spiking without the risk of SD'ing like TL. The move probably has a medium sized sweet spot that spikes and the remainder of the hitbox likely launches the opponent as it did in brawl. There IS the lag on the move as you mentioned, but that doesn't make it entirely unusable (Marth's Dair). And with the new ledge mechanics making Link's tether more useful, it may improve his offstage game/recovery options altogether.
 

Shorts

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Maybe you should stop expecting so much from Smash bros. It's never going to be as competitive as you want it. For MOST players, this buff is cool. Zelda is more usable. To the 1% still complaining, stop holding your breathe already. It would be cool to see all characters competitively viable, but we all know that will never happen.
 
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