Smash Ultimate Leak Discussion Thread

[TyrantLizardKing]

Oh man the screaming I would do if Shadow is a semi-clone and not an echo. I mean I'm fine with either one but Legacy XP showed how well he works as the former.

 

[Androobie]

Wait, am I missing something? How come people said that the leak showed Ivysaur, Pichu, Ken and Pac-Man on an “unknown stage”? The stage they were on was clearly Moray Towers.

 

[Potato_]

Yeah that's what I've been thinking.

Even his FF predictions weren't 100% (he had mentioned games like My Life As A King/Darklord, which never happened,) so it's very likely he's been mixing in actual predictions with leaks.

He also addressed the suspicions on their podcast and predictably it all amounted to "It was a guess."

He guessed a Kirby's Epic Yarn remake. Of all games to remake, in what world would you guess that one?

He's most likely trying to downplay his predictions, not wanting to attract attention to it.

 

[CodeBlue_]

Hasn't Jon joked about L-Block from Tetris? (I say that because Daisy was a "joke" by Jon prior to E3) At least I checked on his twitter anyhow.

Anyway, I hope Shadow semi-clone isn't true. Doesn't make any sense for any of the echoes to be where they're at yet they make Shadow the one exception (Especially since Shadow is in all intents and purposes, Dark Sonic when Dark Pit and Dark Samus exist and they're still echoes despite being known for different weapons and/or abilities from their base character). And of course there's still the two-tailed fox in the room here.

How are Dark Pit and Dark Samus remotely close to the level of popularity and focus that Shadow does? Shadow is probably the second biggest character in the Sonic series (maybe tying with Tails) to the point where Sakurai made him an Assist Trophy in Brawl along with Sonic's reveal. I think it would be warranted for him to get "special treatment" over a literal clone and another literal clone that have appeared in a collective four games between the two.

 

[Deleted member]

Y'know... I'm curious if Jon is actually a leaker pretending to make predictions or if he is just really, really analytic and lucky. On an unrelated note, he has an amazing voice.

He is.

Back when Ridley wasn't revealed, yet, he posted on Restera "this speculation is just too big" on March 7th (literally the day before Smash Ultimate was formally announced). When Gamexplain did their "the case for Ridley in Smash" video he was notably on the side that was advocating for Ridley's inclusion. When Gamexplain did a E3 video prediction discussion, he notably "predicts" Simon Belmont:

Not to mention all of the things Jonneh predicted for the September 13th that ended up beign true (such as old-school FF games coming to the Switch, Epic Yarn for 3DS and Isabelle NOT beign an echo, Etc).

Also, the idea of someone putting their leaks as "predictions" is nothing new. In fact, that's how the Gematsu Leak started.

Now, im sure that there are some things that Jon "predicted" that he wasn't exactly super accuarate, but that's probably why he hides his leaks as "predictions", that way people will not harass him for more info and will not attack him if the info turns out to be fake.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Oh? When did that happen?

When it was posted.

I know I say a "leak" is innocent until proven guilty, but none of you should take random text leaks at face value. Same thing with the Sora tweet.

Here's how much salt you want to take information with at a given time:

Also, if it doesn't directly pertain to Smash Bros. leaks, please save it for the General thread.

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

I think he's a legit leaker, Jon is definitely in a postion where he could get some... Offhand knowledge.

However, this shadow claim could be one of the bait ones too, especially as he possibily got caught when he said isabelle and a few other things. I wouldn't put huge stock into this, but sure, I am totally taking a sonic 2.0 if it's real this is kinda neat even if it aint tails.

 

[MainJPW]

what are you showing here?

On the Falco images you should be able to see faded red ovals with the numbers "4" on Falco's Blaster laser in the first image and "7" on on his Falco Phantasm in the second. That is hit box Debug info.

The Palutena's Temple image is from the Smash for Wii U 4.8.2014 Direct. You can see Debug text printed at the top left of the screen related to character health.

 

[Doho666]

Man, I haven't been on the smashboards in years, glad to come back to see a thread like this opened up. While I can believe Ken, I'm anxious as to what else is even in. It's going to be a long couple months...

 

[BluePikmin11]

I will believe Jon to be a leaker if he gets the Shadow semi-clone segment right.

Otherwise, I think he is just a good speculator like mimique, nothing more.

 

[SonicMario]

If Shadow's a semi-clone. There better be Tails as the Sonic echo (Flight being done like Peach's float, add more jumps then two, and/or if they make something like Pit's up special back in Brawl even if in this case it'd be one original move) as a consolation for me because ****. that.

(And as for Sonic's up smash. Just have Tails put foes on his back and twirl his tails on them like a fan to slice foes)

How are Dark Pit and Dark Samus remotely close to the level of popularity and focus that Shadow does? Shadow is probably the second biggest character in the Sonic series (maybe tying with Tails) to the point where Sakurai made him an Assist Trophy in Brawl along with Sonic's reveal. I think it would be warranted for him to get "special treatment" over a literal clone and another literal clone that have appeared in a collective four games between the two.

I get that, but it still seems like such a big inconsistency. And I've always felt Shadow being the AT since Brawl was because his effect was just easy to make being a shorter version of the timer but no chance of backfiring on the one who summoned him.

Meanwhile, Tails and Knuckles were the only Sonic characters to get Mii costumes and we know by now many of the Mii costumes got upgraded roles or at least kept their role as Assists or more. Tails is still unaccounted for (Green Hill cameo doesn't count, it's an old stage)

 

[Chrono.]

I will believe Jon to be a leaker if he gets the Shadow semi-clone segment right.

Otherwise, I think he is just a good speculator like mimique, nothing more.

It isn't just Smash stuff though.

The Final Fantasy claim was pretty damning, even in his previous direct predictions he had only listed FF7. Next video he goes "FF7, 9, 10 and 12."

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

If Shadow's a semi-clone. There better be Tails as the Sonic echo (Flight being done like Peach's float, add more jumps then two, and/or if they make something like Pit's up special back in Brawl even if in this case it'd be one original move) as a consolation for me because ****. that.

(And as for Sonic's up smash. Just have Tails put foes on his back and twirl his tails on them like a fan to slice foes)



I get that, but it still seems like such a big inconsistency. And I've always felt Shadow being the AT since Brawl was because his effect was just easy to make being a shorter version of the timer but no chance of backfiring on the one who summoned him.

Meanwhile, Tails and Knuckles were the only Sonic characters to get Mii costumes and we know by now many of the Mii costumes got upgraded roles or at least kept their role as Assists or more. Tails is still unaccounted for (Green Hill cameo doesn't count, it's an old stage)

Idk why but I'm having trouble imagining Tails as a fighter, maybe because in recent games (re: the past ten years) he's been a useless sideliner. Either way he would not work as Sonic's echo, different height and physique.

Shadow was put in because he's the unbeaten 2nd most popular character in the series, which fits the general theme of Assist Trophies. There's no one who makes more sense than him as Sonic's echo with their 1:1 physique and abilities.

And no you can't discount Tails' appearance on Green Hill because it's an old stage, he still appears there whether you like it or not. The Mii costume theory doesn't guarantee a role for everyone, do you expect Gilgamesh to be a fighter?

 

[Androobie]

And no you can't discount Tails' appearance on Green Hill because it's an old stage, he still appears there whether you like it or not.

I don’t see your point. King Dedede appears in Dream Land’s background and he’s still playable.

 

[SonicMario]

Idk why but I'm having trouble imagining Tails as a fighter

Sonic the Fighters & Sonic Battle

Shadow was put in because he's the unbeaten 2nd most popular character in the series, which fits the general theme of Assist Trophies. There's no one who makes more sense than him as Sonic's echo with their 1:1 physique and abilities.

I get that. For echo fighters it should absolutely be Shadow. Just in the scenario that Jon is right about Shadow being a semi-clone. I'd appreciate it anyway I can even if Tails is just an echo to help be a little more ok with it then I would be. I just want Mario & Luigi Vs. Sonic & Tails to be a reality. That feels like such a missed opportunity to negotiate for Shadow whilst not also putting on the table having 2 of the most famous video game duos able to fight eachother in Smash.

And no you can't discount Tails' appearance on Green Hill because it's an old stage, he still appears there whether you like it or not. The Mii costume theory doesn't guarantee a role for everyone, do you expect Gilgamesh to be a fighter?

If he was still missing since then, it'd basically spoil his appearance in Smash since the demo.

 

[MainJPW]

Idk why but I'm having trouble imagining Tails as a fighter, maybe because in recent games (re: the past ten years) he's been a useless sideliner.

A useless sideliner? You mean like everyone else who hasn't been playable in a main game in 10 years? Anyone who wasn't Classic and Modern Sonic was a useless cheerleader in Generations.

Tails has been in 3 fighting games already. He's a fighter.

 

[Nekoo]

And no you can't discount Tails' appearance on Green Hill because it's an old stage, he still appears there whether you like it or not.

Well I guess Knuckles can't be an AT since he appears in that stage alongside Silver.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I don’t see your point. King Dedede appears in Dream Land’s background and he’s still playable.

I wasn't saying that disconfirms Tails, I was just saying SonicMario can't discount Tails' appearance on Green Hill because it's old.

 

[Z25]

It isn't just Smash stuff though.

The Final Fantasy claim was pretty damning, even in his previous direct predictions he had only listed FF7. Next video he goes "FF7, 9, 10 and 12."

Not to mention that of all the ports from Wii or Gamecube that could be made, he predicted Epic Yarn.

That's just to good of a prediction imo.

 

[Chrono.]

Idk why but I'm having trouble imagining Tails as a fighter, maybe because in recent games (re: the past ten years) he's been a useless sideliner. Either way he would not work as Sonic's echo, different height and physique.

Shadow was put in because he's the unbeaten 2nd most popular character in the series, which fits the general theme of Assist Trophies. There's no one who makes more sense than him as Sonic's echo with their 1:1 physique and abilities.

And no you can't discount Tails' appearance on Green Hill because it's an old stage, he still appears there whether you like it or not. The Mii costume theory doesn't guarantee a role for everyone, do you expect Gilgamesh to be a fighter?

Sonic Battle, Sonic the Fighters and Super Smash Flash 2 show that he can work as a fighter just fine. Hell, anyone could work as a fighter just fine, we have a Yoga Instructor on the roster. But I do agree that he can't really work as an echo (same issue Villager/Isabelle had.)

And you can discount Tails in Green Hill for a variety of reasons:
- The whole Conductor Toon Link situation, no reason it can't work for any other character
- Knuckles has both a role as a stage and as an AT, not a playable character, but still two roles
- The E3 build shouldn't be taken as gospel as it's heavily subject to change

I'm not saying he's likely to be playable (I feel his best shot is DLC at this point,) but most of the issues that "deconfirm" him are mostly rooted in fan made rules.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

If this is real, the person who got it will be in some serious trouble with Nintendo...

 

[MainJPW]

Sonic Battle, Sonic the Fighters and Super Smash Flash 2 show that he can work as a fighter just fine.

Sonic and Tails were secret fighters in Fighting Vipers, it's what inspired Sonic the Fighters.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

If this is real, the person who got it will be in some serious trouble with Nintendo...

If they get caught. That's part of the territory. One of the main sources of the Ninka/Vaanrose leak still has their job, so only if they get caught will they be in trouble.

Also, can we please save the Shadow vs. Tails debates for the General Thread where it belongs? Cyn said it best in that it's okay if this place is kinda dead for a bit until an actual leak that needs discussing comes up.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Sonic and Tails were secret fighters in Fighting Vipers, it's what inspired Sonic the Fighters.

Huh I never knew that. My bad, I guess Tails could work too then. But do we think Sonic will be the first series to get more than 2 representatives? I'm not against it but this is still a Nintendo game at the end of the day.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

He is.

Back when Ridley wasn't revealed, yet, he posted on Restera "this speculation is just too big" on March 7th (literally the day before Smash Ultimate was formally announced). When Gamexplain did their "the case for Ridley in Smash" video he was notably on the side that was advocating for Ridley's inclusion. When Gamexplain did a E3 video prediction discussion, he notably "predicts" Simon Belmont:

Not to mention all of the things Jonneh predicted for the September 13th that ended up beign true (such as old-school FF games coming to the Switch, Epic Yarn for 3DS and Isabelle NOT beign an echo, Etc).

Also, the idea of someone putting their leaks as "predictions" is nothing new. In fact, that's how the Gematsu Leak started.

Now, im sure that there are some things that Jon "predicted" that he wasn't exactly super accuarate, but that's probably why he hides his leaks as "predictions", that way people will not harass him for more info and will not attack him if the info turns out to be fake.

Yeah I noticed that too. Though that being said he did say K.Rool wouldn't show up during the August 8th Smash Direct and guess who showed up at the end...yes he could've been toying with K.Rool fans (like we haven't been through that enough..) and actually knew OR he's just an EXTREMELY lucky guesser.

 

[lightdrago]

I'm gonna post this video again which I found a bit interesting:

It's rather simple and boring, as he states the newcomers many of us are expecting: Incineroar and Ken. However, he also stated Isabelle, and even went further to state that she would be the next reveal. This video was posted in August, so he was correct.

He also talks about the hidden mode, stating it is Subspace-esque. It would feature unplayable characters and bosses, one of them being Marx.

 

[Exalt4747]

If this is real, the person who got it will be in some serious trouble with Nintendo...

If what is? I think I'm out of the loop.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I'm not 100% positive about that Isabelle part to be honest.


Like, literally every reaction video I've watched made the exact same mistake of "She's an echo fighter!" until she pulls the fishing rod out. The fact that his source apparently 'mistook' her as one more or less lines up with what a good chunk of people did seeing her for the first time.

According to Vergeben, his source that claimed Isabelle was an Echo did see footage of her and mistook her for one, and seeing how a lot of people don't really know what constitutes an Echo to begin with (I've even had to argue with people that Banjo is not a viable Duck Hunt Echo), yeah it's entirely reasonable for people to have assumed an Echo from some Isabelle footage. Source

Why is the Ken leak between being taken so seriously when the Banjo screencap leak with no found preexisting render got dismissed so fast?

The Banjo leak was just a cropped screenshot of a render, while the Ken leak is an ingame screenshot with a real 3D model alongside other Smash characters on an actual stage and with so many little things that shows it's real, that couldn't be made with just some photoshop. The Banjo leak is technically not disproven yet at this time, but there's really nothing that points to it being real and is nowhere near the same legitimacy as the Ken leak, we never even got the full version of the Banjo render.

 

[SonicMario]

Also, can we please save the Shadow vs. Tails debates for the General Thread where it belongs? Cyn said it best in that it's okay if this place is kinda dead for a bit until an actual leak that needs discussing comes up.

Sorry about that. It wasn't entirely off leak talk at first since with Jon's stuff/predictions often coming true he's being kind of considered like a secret leaker.

Just pardon a bit of an emotional overreaction on my part. I'll still campaign for Tails to be DLC even if Shadow turns out to be a semi-clone. But I'll admit I'll be more pessimistic then if he were just an echo. Which is why I'd probably be among the disappointed if this particular thing from Jon turns out to be accurate as well.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If what is? I think I'm out of the loop.

I think they mean the Ken images from yesterday

 

[Exalt4747]

Sorry about that. It wasn't entirely off leak talk at first since with Jon's stuff/predictions often coming true he's being kind of considered like a secret leaker.

Just pardon a bit of an emotional overreaction on my part. I'll still campaign for Tails to be DLC even if Shadow turns out to be a semi-clone. But I'll admit I'll be more pessimistic then if he were just an echo. Which is why I'd probably be among the disappointed if this particular thing from Jon turns out to be accurate as well.

Who is Jon?

 

[Z25]

I'm gonna post this video again which I found a bit interesting:

It's rather simple and boring, as he states the newcomers many of us are expecting: Incineroar and Ken. However, he also stated Isabelle, and even went further to state that she would be the next reveal. This video was posted in August, so he was correct.

He also talks about the hidden mode, stating it is Subspace-esque. It would feature unplayable characters and bosses, one of them being Marx.

Eh I wouldn't put faith in this.

Everyone had their mother has had these 3 on their "leaks". Choosing Isabelle as next reveal wouldn't be that hard either.

It was pretty logical to say the next direct would have AC Switch( I firmly believed this for months now and it was heavily speculated)

It also made perfect sense to have Isabelle in this direct because she's a perfect ad for AC Switch in said direct.

Also I always found it hard to believe a leak that had shadow but not tails.

 

[SonicMario]

Who is Jon?

Gamexplain's Jon.

 

[Exalt4747]

Gamexplain's Jon.

So what is he saying?

 

[Untouch]

I'm gonna post this video again which I found a bit interesting:

It's rather simple and boring, as he states the newcomers many of us are expecting: Incineroar and Ken. However, he also stated Isabelle, and even went further to state that she would be the next reveal. This video was posted in August, so he was correct.

He also talks about the hidden mode, stating it is Subspace-esque. It would feature unplayable characters and bosses, one of them being Marx.

With Ken being very unlikely to show up on his own, there was a 50:50 chance that out of the remaining Vergeben newcomers it'd be Isabelle.
This feels like piggybacking to me.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

According to Vergeben, his source that claimed Isabelle was an Echo did see footage of her and mistook her for one, and seeing how a lot of people don't really know what constitutes an Echo to begin with (I've even had to argue with people that Banjo is not a viable candidate for a Duck Hunt Echo), yeah it's entirely reasonable for people to have assumed an Echo from some Isabelle footage. Source



The Banjo leak was just a cropped screenshot of a render, while the Ken leak is an ingame screenshot with a real 3D model alongside other Smash characters on an actual stage and with so many little things that shows it's real, that couldn't be made with just some photoshop. The Banjo leak is technically not disproven yet at this time, but there's really nothing that points to it being real and is nowhere near the same legitimacy as the Ken leak, we never even got the full version of the Banjo render.

What about the Banjo leak? Can i see the picture?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So what is he saying?

He predicted Final Fantasy VII, IX, and X & X2 on switch as well as Isabelle as a semi-clone
lots of people (including myself) think that he's a leaker in disguise...
So now he's predicting that Shadow is a semi-clone

 

[BluePikmin11]

It isn't just Smash stuff though.

The Final Fantasy claim was pretty damning, even in his previous direct predictions he had only listed FF7. Next video he goes "FF7, 9, 10 and 12."

Eh... I suppose. Even in Gamexplain discussions when discussing Smash, they never bring up rumors when discussing stuff, this happened with Simon and Incineroar. But I just do not feel convinced yet.

What do you guys think about the possibility that Jon might have info for just one direct, in a similar fashion to loz and the E3 direct?

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

Good point, though we don't know about most of the modes still. I'd wager a lengthy presentation is ahead of us still.

Oh I agree. It'll probably focus mostly on the mystery (allegedly spirits) mode. I just don't think it'll be an unusual amount of content. Probably August direct amount-ish which is admittedly not a small amount.

 

[Exalt4747]

I kind of wish I could detach myself from this for a bit, I'm starving here.