Smash Ultimate general series discussion: Part 9: Fire Emblem (with polls)

[Kevandre]

I bet if we get another FE character in Ultimate, it'd be someone from Three Houses. Though part of me thinks that Chrom is probably it

 

[staindgrey]

Even if it went against her character....they weren't afraid to make Lucina and Chrom clones. I wouldn't be surprised if she was an Echo, and personally I wouldn't have a problem with it. Making FE characters clones seems to be a thing for them.

That's because Lucina and Chrom fighting like Marth and Roy doesn't fundamentally go against their characters. Marth and Roy's movesets are almost entirely unique to Smash Bros. anyway and aren't derived directly from the games themselves. It's just a generic swordsman moveset, strung out among four swordsmen. It's very similar to how Fox, Falco and Wolf have a derivative moveset, but it doesn't go against any of them individually because it's all made up for Smash to begin with.

Robin is unique-- along with Corrin-- in that her moveset rips directly from her in-game powers and limitations. They even made a big deal in her reveal trailer that her items decay over time, just like in Awakening. Plugging that moveset onto a character not in Awakening fits about as well as putting a glove on someone's foot.

 

[Luigifan18]

Robin's tomes degrade as well. It's part of her balance.

Removing the weapon degrading fundamentally changes how the character should work and how she needs to be balanced. Less an echo and more a semi-clone, if anything.

Tomes didn't degrade in Echoes. If anything, I'd expect weapon durability on Celica's special moves to be replaced with recoil damage a la Pichu.

 

[staindgrey]

Tomes didn't degrade in Echoes. If anything, I'd expect weapon durability on Celica's special moves to be replaced with recoil damage a la Pichu.

Did they degrade in Gaiden? I've never played it.

 

[Luigifan18]

Did they degrade in Gaiden? I've never played it.

There was no weapon degradation in Gaiden; weapons just had infinite uses, while spells cost HP to use.

 

[staindgrey]

There was no weapon degradation in Gaiden; weapons just had infinite uses, while spells cost HP to use.

Wait. So then my point still stands. Making Celica a Robin echo with weapon degradation doesn't work.

 

[Luigifan18]

Wait. So then my point still stands. Making Celica a Robin echo with weapon degradation doesn't work.

Exactly. She might be a Robin Echo with weapon degradation replaced by recoil damage, though...

 

[staindgrey]

Exactly. She might be a Robin Echo with weapon degradation replaced by recoil damage, though...

Oh. I see now. You were underlining the game titles for proper grammar, not emphasis. I thought you were correcting me when you said Echoes didn't have tome degradation.

Having Celica gain damage with tome usage would be a very clever implementation of SoV/Gaiden's unique weapon setup, but it'd really kill the character for me. Neat idea though.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Marth is actually based pretty closely on his Fire Emblem animations. I watched a youtube video about it.

 

[Calamitas]

I'm probably in the minority here, but the character I'd really want most for Fire Emblem right - as an unique one, anyway - would be Anna. Other Fire Emblem characters come and go, but Anna is pretty much constant, and as of Awakening, Fates, Heroes and Warriors, also playable with an unique enough moveset in the last one. I mean, if we ignore that she fights just like every other archer in Warriors.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I still want Lyn in Smash...but for future games not Ultimate (or obvious reasons), but right now Celica, Anna, and Edelgard are my top picks for an 8th FE character

Also, the series needs more other things besides music and stages (ATs are lacking, stages are meh besides Arena Ferox, no items up until now, etc.)

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Marth is actually based pretty closely on his Fire Emblem animations. I watched a youtube video about it.

Know Your Moves?

 

[YoshiandToad]

I could present the fallacy of the CYL, but let's instead go with, she didn't crush Lucina (especially with masked Lucina votes). Ike, Lyn and Lucina were in a league of their own.

Also, if you go by that logic, then say goodbye to Marth, the Robins, and Corrins. Instead we get Tharja and Camilla.

I'd be sad to see Robin go(female Corrin may survive since she made top five for the girls) but honestly we'd get an okay replacement in Tharja(at least gameplay style wise, personally I despise Tharja) and Camilla would offer something really unique with a mounted axe wielder.

Currently on a Fire Emblem Warriors binge. Gotta say, as someone who wasn't really a fan originally, I do think the game gets far too much hate. It certainly does some things better than Hyrule Warriors such as the team ups halving the amount of time and not forcing you to constantly use movesets you cannot stand. Levelling up seems easier too. Still slightly weird we didn't get both Ike and Roy thrown in like they did with Lyn and Celica since Smash boosted their popularity greatly but it is what it is.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Still slightly weird we didn't get both Ike and Roy thrown in like they did with Lyn and Celica since Smash boosted their popularity greatly but it is what it is.

I focused more on Lyn and Celica for newcomer speculation and hopes, but sure. Opinions on Ike and our boy?

 

[Arthur97]

Ike's fans and his seemingly special treatment by the fanbase have done him no favors in my mind. Doesn't help even IS hypes him up.

Roy is okay I guess. Like using him in Smash 4, but Chrom means I probably won't use him that much in Ultimate.

 

[YoshiandToad]

One thing I've always been confused about regarding Roy is his popularity.

I constantly hear Roy is not a popular character outside Smash, yet he came second for the boys in the Choose Your Legends poll, beating Marth and fan favourite Hector quite handily. Sure, Smash could help towards that but Roy still outranked Marth, Corrin and Robin.

Roy's apparently popular in Smash but due to his awful gimmick he's probably the least used Fire Emblemer and I fully expect Chrom to be more viable than him.

Personally? I adore Roy, crappy hitboxes and everything. From a sheer aesthetic viewpoint, Roy certainly caught the young men's attention more than Marth. Feel his Amiibo should have been compatible with Fates and Mario Maker. Was gutted when it turned out he'd missed the boat.

As for Ike...my sister adores him and I like he's a lead who isn't a royal or necessarily a chosen one. That's refreshing. Definitely see how he influenced Chrom's creation with a lot of good boy, must protect my friends and seeing good in people traits.

 

[Arthur97]

One thing I've always been confused about regarding Roy is his popularity.

I constantly hear Roy is not a popular character outside Smash, yet he came second for the boys in the Choose Your Legends poll, beating Marth and fan favourite Hector quite handily. Sure, Smash could help towards that but Roy still outranked Marth, Corrin and Robin.

Roy's apparently popular in Smash but due to his awful gimmick he's probably the least used Fire Emblemer and I fully expect Chrom to be more viable than him.

Personally? I adore Roy, crappy hitboxes and everything. From a sheer aesthetic viewpoint, Roy certainly caught the young men's attention more than Marth. Feel his Amiibo should have been compatible with Fates and Mario Maker. Was gutted when it turned out he'd missed the boat.

Roy (and Ike) got meme power to a degree with the title of "our boy." None of the others had very widespread memes. Plus, there is the whole aspect of him being cut and therefore people rallied to get him back. Plus, the nature of CYL also lends itself to dedication being a potentially strong factor as you could do repeat votes.

At least his Amiibo works in Echoes as bad as the Amiibo functionality was.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

This afternoon I'm uploading parts 11 and 12, because of the direct, sorry for rushing.

 

[Arrei]

I figure Roy's popularity in CYL was heavily influenced by Smash, at least in the west. The boy is fairly popular in Japan, I think. But Awakening also greatly increased the series' exposure to the general Nintendo fanbase, and a lot of those players probably carried over a lot of the "our boy" sentiment.

Ike, however, has just always been the second coming of Hector. A blunt but good-hearted warrior with no penchant for noble affairs, who also grows into their role and becomes a beast of a unit, that was sure to be popular. As a western fan, he especially stood out to me because his game was the first we had where using the main character in battle began to feel less like a massive escort mission, and his prowess in combat made it seem like he deserved his role as the protagonist.

 

[Opossum]

Celica's sword style consists of rapier-styled jabs, not the clumsy swooping motions Robin does. She's also pretty fast so having Robin's run speed is totally unfitting. Add to that that she doesn't cast magic from tomes, and instead casts freehand, and that she doesn't have weapon degradation, and that swords always come second to her after magic (with Robin being the exact opposite), and Celica outright doesn't work as a Robin echo.

To put it into perspective, it makes just as much sense as making Ike a Marth echo.

 

[Arthur97]

Celica's sword style consists of rapier-styled jabs, not the clumsy swooping motions Robin does. She's also pretty fast so having Robin's run speed is totally unfitting. Add to that that she doesn't cast magic from tomes, and instead casts freehand, and that she doesn't have weapon degradation, and that swords always come second to her after magic (with Robin being the exact opposite), and Celica outright doesn't work as a Robin echo.

To put it into perspective, it makes just as much sense as making Ike a Marth echo.

It's not like the Robins are supposed to be slow. Also again, since when did logic matter? Yes I'm jaded.

 

[Opossum]

It's not like the Robins are supposed to be slow. Also again, since when did logic matter? Yes I'm jaded.

I assume in Smash it's due to the robes.

 

[Arthur97]

I assume in Smash it's due to the robes.

Probably a balance thing. That or Sakurai just doesn't care.

 

[Frizz]

We could have a whole discussion about why Robin is theoretically as slow as he is in Smash—could be due to a lack of exercise, weapon overencumberance... Maybe he just likes to take it slow. Who knows?

But Opossum's right. Celica definitely wouldn't work as Robin's Echo. I can't even imagine her running the same way as him. I'm sure they could use Celica's animations from Gaiden/Echoes, as well as some Rapier animations from throughout the series and call it a day.

Probably a balance thing. That or Sakurai just doesn't care.

Definitely a balance thing. Robin is heavily projectile based, mainly relying on his Arcfire and Thunder spells to both approach and distance himself. His weapon durability prevents him from outright spamming them, but they have just the right amount of durability points and recharge time to get the job done. Were he any faster, trying to approach him would be downright difficult.

At least, that's just what I think. I could be totally wrong about this.