Smash Ultimate general series discussion: Part 10: Kid Icarus

[Mogisthelioma]

(Sorry it took me forever to post this thread, I've been busy for a while)

Part 10 of a series discussing the 12 IPs in Smash with 2 or more fighters! We're in the homestretch now!

Tagged for Frizz , @Alastor017 , HypnoMaster372 , Quillion , WaddleMatt , and letsgetsmashing ! If you want to get notifications on future threads, mention me in a post ( Mogisthelioma ), DM me, or follow me!

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Kid Icarus may very well have one of the most interesting histories of a Nintendo franchise. Originally a 2D platformer, Kid Icarus saw a revival of the franchise in 2012, with a third person shooter style of gameplay. Despite having only three games, Kid Icarus has been welcomes into Smash with several fighters, stages, trophies, and items.

As always, the opening poll begins with a question about the roster. Today we'll begin with....

If Dark Pit was revamped to be more unique, would you want him to be in his own slot, or still an echo of Pit?

 

[Dee Dude]

I would say boot Dark Pit completely but ever since Dark Samus got in, it honestly wouldn’t be any fair to him so I say screw it and declone him to Brawl Pit with a few original moves.

 

[Quillion]

The problem with decloning Dark Pit is that his signature weapon is supposed to be a mirror of Pit's: the Silver Bow to the Palutena Bow. Perhaps he could swap out his Side-B and Down-B for something else, but that's pretty much it.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

declone him to Brawl Pit with a few original moves.

Decloning him to Brawl Pit might have some implications, but it could work. Dark Pit should also use his staff and the attack he uses in his final smash as a R.O.B. style forward smash instead of daggers.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Finally some Kid Icarus at last!

But as for the poll itself, my bias says he shouldn't even be a fighter, at least until Medusa was one, but I've mostly accepted him now and would want him to be a tad more unique. For those who seen my post regarding veteran revamps, I mentioned that both Pits should have 3 full-fledged movesets to symbolize the "weapon loadout" routine that you do in Uprising before battle. Where Pit could've had a Cannon and Blade for 2 different movesets, DP could've had the Staff and Club for his, where the current Bow movesets for both angels would be the thing to make them different. This way ppl who understand that DP is truly Pit's clone (Uprising helps) can have the Bow movesets be similar to the other, but they use different weapons in the other movesets to differentiate them, while at the same time, the movesets themselves open up new doors to pleasing different playstyles.

With that in mind, my choice has to go with receive more edits, but remain as Pit's echo, because well... the two are generally the same with different colors and personalities.

 

[Frizz]

I don't know too much about Kid Icarus Uprising myself, but I'm sure there's plenty of weapons for Dark Pit to incorporate into his moveset. Of course, they'd have to be inline with his character. If he wouldn't use them, then he shouldn't use them just because he could.

There seems to be a consensus here—Dark Pit shouldn't be changed too much from Pit since he's literally his copy. Minor changes should be made here and there to help him further differentiate himself from Pit, but nothing too drastic or major. Since that's the case, my vote goes to "Yes, he should receive a few more edits but remain Pit's echo fighter".

 

[TheYungLink]

I was always bummed that Pittoo had the least amount of differences from his base back in Smash 4, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that he'd think Pit is the one who was copying him anyway. In that case, I think some more unique animations here and there would be ideal, but I'd still like him to use the Dark Pit staff somewhere in his moveset besides the Final Smash.

 

[Admiral Pit]

The weapons that Pittoo has used in the game is the Violet Palm, EZ Cannon, Ogre Club, that Staff named after him, but his main one is the Silver Bow that he uses in Smash, so it would make sense for him to be similar to Pit, that and he basically looks like him. So relatively speaking, the Staff and Club seem fitting of his aggression. A few changes I could see for him with his bow moveset would be adding some kicks since he does that in Uprising, and a tad more aggressive.
Who knows? He might actually get a change somewhere, especially since we haven't seen his full moveset yet.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Dark Pit could be turned into a uniqe fighter. Uprising offered up plenty of options for him.

 

[SupriceSupplies]

Honestly, if it were humanly possible I’d make every echo unique, but I’m perfectly fine with echos and Dark Pit does fit the role, even if he would make for a great semiclone. And considering his personality and his role in Uprising, I believe he doesn’t really need to be changed. I’ll be using him as one of my mains anyway alongside Chrom and Olimar.
I should replay Uprising at some point. God I love that game. (I’ll keep hoping for a switch port as well.)

EDIT: On a different topic, I wonder if they’re going to address Pit being able to use the Lightning Chariot, as Pit pretty much inherited it, but then the Forces of Nature claimed it as their own according to smash 4, and now Pit uses it as his Final Smash. Funny how smash is (supposedly) canon to Kid Icarus.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dark Pit is the IDEAL Echo template. Whatever weapons he "could" use, are also usable by Pit. They have exact the same potential and abilities, and Dark Pit is a literal clone, and born from Pit's black alternative costume in Brawl. C'mon...

Overall, Kid Icarus is well presented. It could maybe use a Boss Battle, or a new Assist Trophy as say, the Eggplant Wizard, but outside of that it's fine. Especially since Sakurai isn't likely to make a sequel to Uprising.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

The only thing I care to see from Kid Icarus is Medusa as a Palutena echo. I always wanted Medusa over Palutena anyway. Just give me Medusa and throw Hades in as a Spirits mode boss and I think Kid Icarus would be good.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Not only would I cut Dark Pit, I would cut Palutena.

 

[ZagarTulip]

I honestly think Kid Icarus has more than enough characters. It is a small series with no confirmed future and I really didn't think that Kid Icarus Uprising was enough to justify adding more Kid Icarus characters. I would 100% cut Palutena and Dark Pit if I could.

Palutena honestly feels unfitting as a fighter. her moveset was weird, her character was bland, she was waaaaay too overhyped. TBH I think she fits better in the role she served in SSBB.
Dark Pit is weird because it is like a recolour of a character becoming its own fighter.

Although... I do enjoy Palutena's Guidance in SSB4 and wouldn't mind seeing a return of it

 

[Admiral Pit]

I do feel troubled about Palutena's moveset though. I always figured she'd be a defensive heavyweight with various projectiles when I imagined her prior to the s4 reveal, but she definitely turned out different, and unfortunately underwhelming. Back then, she was my number 1 want though, and I still stuck with her despite what she's become (mostly because s4 Pit's hitboxes were terrible and he seemed bland back then). And yet she's actually lighter and faster than the angel...

As for my roster choice if I had the power in the KI division, Pit would be what he is now with 2 new full-fledged weapon movesets, Palu would be revamped too to reflect a bit more of her boss battle style, Pittoo's Bow moveset gets some changes while he also gets 2 new movesets featuring different weapons than Pit, and both Medusa and Phosphora would've been playable. Sadly that's all just me being biased and wanting a boost in KI since almost everyone seems to not give it any attention save for a few of us supporters of Medusa, and me like being the only Phosphora supporter that I remember.
Realistically, playable Medusa or Phosphora is still possible (well, until we see Phosphora be an Assist Trophy again, which isn't the case yet), and a couple move changes to Pittoo to make him a tad more different from Pit (we haven't seen his full moveset yet like we did for Pit), but still an echo to him. I just hope these days go by fast so I can stop being super worried and all. Whatever happens, at least I got a buffed Pit on my mains roster.

 

[TheYungLink]

Hey Mogisthelioma , since the Direct on Thursday will most likely show tons of info on all 10 of the previous subjects you covered, you may wanna get out Parts 11 and 12 tomorrow beforehand. Just thought it'd be a good heads up, cuz otherwise it'd be weird to have Parts 11 and 12 released after we know almost everything about Ultimate while the previous 10 parts were released before.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Hey Mogisthelioma , since the Direct on Thursday will most likely show tons of info on all 10 of the previous subjects you covered, you may wanna get out Parts 11 and 12 tomorrow beforehand. Just thought it'd be a good heads up, cuz otherwise it'd be weird to have Parts 11 and 12 released after we know almost everything about Ultimate while the previous 10 parts were released before.

Alright, i'll release both of them today in the afternoon.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Kid Icarus...where do I begin...

Spoiler: I would make this character playable if I was Sakurai

After that I would add more enemies from Uprising in a returning Smash Run or Spirits, keep Pittoo the same since he uses everything Pit does except for the TST/GST, give Palutena all of her customs in one moveset (not prepared to lose Heavenly Light, Super Speed, and Lightweight), and make Pit so balanced that he ends up being high tier at best (and top tier at the even better than best placement)

also make a Kid Icarus 4...Uprising sequels and content galore

 

[Mogisthelioma]

So guys this afternoon I'm going to upload parts 11 and 12, because of the direct. Sorry for the rush.

 

[Crystanium]

If Pit and Dark Pit can wield the same weapons and those are the only things that makes them different from one another is personality and the ability to use the power of flight at will, then yeah, I'd say just make Dark Pit a color palette of Pit. I am aware of Dee Dude mentioning Dark Samus, but she not only has a different personality, she has an entirely different moveset with very few similarities to Samus.

I'd go for making Medusa a Palutena echo fighter, but eventually get around to decloning her when there's enough time for development.