Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DaybreakHorizon]

I agree with this, but at the same time, I believe SE would see it as worth the risk to include DQ instead. The logic goes like this:

- Kingdom Hearts 3 is going to sell with or without Smash. It already has a huge following in the west, and it's practically guaranteed to be a success. DQ XI S, however, is not (at least in the west). What better way to drum up interest in the franchise than to include it in Smash? It may seem like a risky move now, but that's only if you're thinking short-term. DQ's inclusion in Smash could massively increase interest in the series, thus leading to more sales for DQ XI S, thus getting DQ into more people's hands and possibly creating more fans in the west. An increasing fanbase could snowball from there, which could subsequently lead to more successful DQ releases in the future.

It's a risk that could massively pay off for the franchise both now and in the future, while Kingdom Hearts really wouldn't benefit all that much from such a promotion. Basically, this is SE's big chance to really push DQ into the west, and it's a risk I think they'd be wise to act upon. This opportunity will probably never present itself again. If they really want DQ to become bigger in the west, then this is their chance to really get the ball rolling.

Dragon Quest is probably the biggest and most historically important video game series currently not in Smash. It's legendary. It's one of the few game franchises that truly "deserves" a spot due to how influential it is. For how important it is to gaming as a whole. I personally think its legacy is enough to get it in Smash alone, and it's definitely something I think Sakurai would like to represent in the greatest gaming crossover of all time. I believe it'd be a smart idea to use the VGAs to not only highlight the franchise, but also bring attention to DQ XI being a great game all while boosting the series' name further with a Smash DLC announcement. It'd have people everywhere talking about Dragon Quest, and I'm sure that's something SE would like to happen.

To sum up:
- Kingdom Hearts wouldn't benefit very much from using Smash as cross-promotion. It's already massively popular in the west and doesn't really need such a push to sell KH 3. I believe the sheer hype surrounding the game is sufficient to get newcomers on board as well.

- Dragon Quest being promoted in Smash could probably be the push it needs to finally breakout in the west, thus leading to more successful western releases in the future. There's not much hype or interest surrounding DQ in the west, but it being in Smash could potentially change that.

I think Dragon Quest benefits more from being in Smash (and has done more than enough to deserve it). It's something that I'm sure everyone involved would want to make happen. KH could very well take the spot, but I'll always see it as a huge missed opportunity to increase interest in DQ. Well, those are my thoughts, anyway. I'm not an expert on subjects like this, so please excuse me if I'm not making too much sense.

View attachment 174919

Whatever happens, I'm sure it's going to be rad. I wish the best of luck to all of you Sora fans, but don't count us DQ fans out just yet.

I feel like the argument comes down to risk and reward. Is Square Enix willing to take a risk to get a larger reward? Or will they play it safe and get a lesser reward? Speaking from a psychological standpoint (I’m a psych major), people pretty much never go for the long term rewards. But, Square Enix might be different.

Something we’re not taking into account is wider popularity. KH has the advantage with worldwide popularity, and Sora has the advantage in traditional fan polls (specifically the ballot).

If Sakurai goes to Square Enix for Sora, will they deny him for a long con with a Dragon Quest character? One that might not even work? No way. Sora is popular and will make Square Enix a bunch of money.

Sora also seems to have an easier process for addition, as the Square Enix step is only through Normura. Sakurai invokes his relationship with Normura and asks for Sora. Normura agrees. Sakurai doesn’t have to work with Square Enix and instead works with Disney, who are pretty chill about Sora’s inclusion.

For a Dragon Quest character, no one has any idea how it works, but it involves working not only with Square Enix, but also Blue Sky Studios (Toriyama) and a separate one (I forget which). If you thought Square Enix was hard to work with? Try working with them alongside two other studios for one character.

It just doesn’t seem to be worth it.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't worry...
They already exist.

That doesn't make it any better!

 

[perfectchaos83]

Sakurai has never said ATs deconfirm characters for DLC.

It's somewhat unlikely, but let's not put words in Sakurai's mouth.

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) November 2, 2018

If Push "Hype Responsibly" Dustin is telling you to still have faith and believe, then you know you still have a chance.

However unlikely it is, he's right. They could always make a character out of an AT. There's no unwritten rule against it.

I know I took a huge hit to morale when I saw both Skull Kid and Shadow, but that doesn't mean I've lost all hope of it happening. If not in this Fighter Pass then in the possible future.

It may be unlikely, but Promotions are only going to happen if we get more than one batch of DLC which is, at the moment, an unknown unknown. Preferably, I'd prefer promotions stick to first party as well. At least for one batch, especially since this first batch is likely to be a majority of 3rd parties anyway.

 

[Pakky]

Colors's writing was kinda meh to me, but ngl Wisps were pretty fun.

Colors is serviceable.

#WhathappenedtoTails?

Oh wait does Pikachu remind Sonic of Tails?

Oh... I just got a little sad.

 

[Deleted member]

The question is what's going on with Square Enix, because apparently they aren't happy about something going on right now.

 

[osby]

But you know how that's gonna end up. Like I said, it's unfortunate for Xenoblade all around. Fans got the hard pill with knowing that a port of Xenoblade X probably will never happen after Takahashi said it'd be "very difficult to do", and again, combine that with the timing of each games and with the general audience in general knowing Xenoblade 2 over X, I just can't help but feel it's gonna be a bit of another controversial pick.

That being said, I'm now wondering if the Smash Ballot has any merit, since DLC was also planned alongside the roster. Like, originally I thought Sora would be in as the Square rep, but since this was during 2015, I'm possibly hoping it's Geno.

But who could you really add that is gonna catch people, since you planned this during the project plan? This is why I'm hoping we aren't getting just five sets and have a season 2, because Ultimate might need it. :/

Yeah, we only have alongside with every single veteran. Ultimate roster is definitely in dire need of saving.

 

[Noipoi]

Colors's writing was kinda meh to me, but ngl Wisps were pretty fun.

Thee writing was lacking, but I really liked the gameplay. The best line was probably this

Spoiler

I might get Mania next year. My game money this year is for Pokemon (reluctantly) and Smash.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

C'mon Sakurai Kun! The power of Nayru can't deflect this damn beam but a Hylian Shield can? Stop tampering with the LoZ source material, the canon is already quite a mess as it is. Shame! What the hell is wrong with you!?

Oh and also...

Spoiler

 

[Diem]

good writing... Unleashed

Wait, really? Isn't that the game with Chip?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

So we know the full day-1 roster.

WHO YA GOT?

For me, Incineroar looks the most hype. I absolutely love Torracat, so I'll gladly accept Incin as the character. And all his wrestling moves and flair just look SO GREAT. Also, he was voiced by the now-deceased (rip ) Unshō Ishizuka who voiced my boy Igor in JP Persona, so I have to do him justice and play the big wrastlin' kitty.

If Incineroar doesn't work out, there's always Ridley, Palutena, and Link to try.

and the beautiful planty boi in a few months

 

[perfectchaos83]

The question is what's going on with Square Enix, because apparently they aren't happy about something going on right now.

Is this about Tansut's statements? There's only 2 possibilities left and, at this point, I do not think the leak in question is in private circles.

1. LeakyPandy's VGA leak alluding to Dragon Quest
2. The KH Guy's Sora tweet.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, we only have alongside with every single veteran. Ultimate roster is definitely in dire need of saving.

"We only got almost everything but I'm still not satisfied! I need more!"

 

[TVDart]

I'm glad to see the poll shows more people excited for the new characters besides being disappointed. Can't wait to dig my teeth into World of Light; I couldn't be more excited.

 

[Mutsukki]

The question is what's going on with Square Enix, because apparently they aren't happy about something going on right now.

Where's this coming from exactly?

 

[doomedtacox]

My DLC predictions are:

1. Erdrick, Eight or The Luminary from Dragon Quest (3/8/11)
2. Lloyd Irving (I'd prefer it to be Yuri)
3. Banjo
4. Edlgard or other 3 houses rep
5. 8th Gen Pokemon

Wave 2 can focus on first party assist/spirits promotions and wave 3 can focus on 3rd party assist/spirits

Holy you think we're getting 3 waves?? I thought it was only 5 we were getting...

 

[Androobie]

GUYS

IT WASNT THE CHAIRS

 

[Hinata]

So we know the full day-1 roster.

WHO YA GOT?

For me, Incineroar looks the most hype. I absolutely love Torracat, so I'll gladly accept Incin as the character. And all his wrestling moves and flair just look SO GREAT. Also, he was voiced by Unshō Ishizuka who voiced my boy Igor in JP Persona, so I have to do him justice and play the big wrastlin' kitty.

If Incineroar doesn't work out, there's always Ridley, Palutena, and Link to try.

and the beautiful planty boi in a few months

I'm definitely gonna try Incineroar, but right now I'm lookin' to main Richter, and put a lot of time into Inkling and Ken.

 

[osby]

Wait, really? Isn't that the game with Chip?

This is a declaration of war.

 

[Starbound]

But you know how that's gonna end up. Like I said, it's unfortunate for Xenoblade all around. Fans got the hard pill with knowing that a port of Xenoblade X probably will never happen after Takahashi said it'd be "very difficult to do", and again, combine that with the timing of each games and with the general audience in general knowing Xenoblade 2 over X, I just can't help but feel it's gonna be a bit of another controversial pick.

No, I really don't know how it's going to end up.

The lineup was decided 3 years ago and the general audience of 2018 was not a factor. That means a port of X literally has no merit in the decisions because they can't even answer that question 3 years ago.

That being said, I'm now wondering if the Smash Ballot has any merit, since DLC was also planned alongside the roster. Like, originally I thought Sora would be in as the Square rep, but since this was during 2015, I'm possibly hoping it's Geno.

The ballot absolutely has merit because that's how we got K. Rool. Obviously, we weren't going to get every ballot request, nor were we going to only get ballot requests. But as everyone has said since day 1, hype responsibly. I'm honestly confused with what you're trying to say here because you just listed two characters that likely did very well on the ballot.

But who could you really add that is gonna catch people, since you planned this during the project plan? This is why I'm hoping we aren't getting just five sets and have a season 2, because Ultimate might need it. :/

lmao with the hype for Ultimate right now, it doesn't need anything except to release tomorrow. Seriously, Twitter ate Piranha Plant up and it was on trending for hours and the absolute vast majority was happiness.

 

[staindgrey]

this.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggghhhh.

I have to learn to play Peach now.

I've never enjoyed playing Peach.

 

[DevaAshera]

I got bored and messaged a version of this to my brothers this morning..made it nicer now to share here..

But when Piranha Plant is also getting his own stage and music, which has been confirmed, you can't really help but to also include him amongst the rest of the Fighter Pass characters.

Is it? I haven't seen anything say its getting its own stage or music or anything..the stage shown was either Mushroom Kingdom U or Super Mario Maker (too lazy to check it).

On a related note, I can't help but feel that every character coming with a new stage and new music could hint at each DLC character being from a new series or entry in a series (so it would make sense to have a new stage and musical selections).

 

[Shroob]

I'm calling it right now.


Galeem is another form of Zero from Kirby.




The evidence is shaky at best, but there's two general points of question I have:



Zero(Megaman): Pyrosphere is gone, so unless there's a Zero(Metroid) spirit, then why else would Zero from Megaman need the distinction of telling his home series?



And:

Galeem is... an angelic ball with six wings. The last time we saw Zero-2, it was an angelic ball with two wings.



THAT, and APPARENTLY the Kanji for "World of Light" backwards is "Hoshi no Kabi"....apparently.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

C'mon Sakurai Kun! The power of Nayru can't deflect this damn beam but a Hylian Shield can? Stop tampering with the LoZ source material, the canon is already quite a mess as it is. Shame! What the hell is wrong with you!?

Oh and also...

Spoiler

No no no, see, you don't understand. Link got hit by the multiple puny "Square up sucka" light beams until the last one. Zelda and Mewtwo got hit with the "Oh you're ****ing dead *****" beams. There's a difference.

 

[osby]

I'm glad to see the poll shows more people excited for the new characters besides being disappointed. Can't wait to dig my teeth into World of Light; I couldn't be more excited.

I was hoping for a side-scroller but I'm sold on gameplay, maps look great. I can't wait to rescue the greatest video game characters ever created (and Adam Malchovich).

 

[supercopper64]

As someone who desperately loves Banjo, is not into card games or rpg’s, and pretty indifferent about echo fighters, i must say that the direct really really made me happy. The disappointment that the grinch leak was fake only lasted for mere seconds cause Incenieror’s moveset looks so awesome. And the Pirahna Plant is pretty smart and the most unique thing I’ve seen in a bit. And the online? 10/10, i’m excited to get some high levels. Who else loved the direct?

 

[Noipoi]

All I really wanted was Incineroar, Geno, and some good single player content.

Two outta three ain't bad.

Spoiler

And Geno's got a shot as dlc

 

[staindgrey]

Play Mania instead.

Or if you want to play a good 3D Sonic game with good writing... Unleashed, Black Knight and Secret Rings were great but dunno if I can recommend their gameplay.

I can. Daytime half of Unleashed is my favorite Sonic game. Better than Generations. It's great. The DLC's great. I ****ing love it.

It's just those Nighttime levels that kept it from being the "Sonic Adventure 3" we've all been waiting on since middle school.

 

[Mutsukki]

THAT, and APPARENTLY the Kanji for "World of Light" backwards is "Hoshi no Kabi"....apparently.

Can confirm that's the case, I checked the kanjis and they can indeed form "Kabi" backwards.

Sakurai is honestly too good.

 

[Starbound]

this.

Honestly, so many echoes look basically identical that it's kinda frustrating they didn't want to do more.

Daisy, Dark Samus, Richter and Dark Pit are basically the same character from what it looks like, and any differences they do have won't matter in the majority of situations.

Lucina and Ken have some changes that at least change a bit of how the base character plays.

And Chrom got to be special.

 

[Idon]

Just remake Unleashed, but let Platinum make the nighttime sections.
Easy.

 

[osby]

I can. Daytime half of Unleashed is my favorite Sonic game. Better than Generations. It's great. The DLC's great. I ****ing love it.

It's just those Nighttime levels that kept it from being the "Sonic Adventure 3" we've all been waiting on since middle school.

Personally, I enjoyed them, so it's even better for me. Not that I think they were any good.

 

[Shroob]

Can confirm that's the case, I checked the kanjis and they can indeed form "Kabi" backwards.

Sakurai is honestly too good.

So yeah, that's my honest to god theory.


Sakurai's staging an epic showdown of all of Nintendo's characters, against arguably the most evil Nintendo character ever, that he himself made, Zero.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, we only have alongside with every single veteran. Ultimate roster is definitely in dire need of saving.

I mean what I said when it comes to DLC, of course the base roster is fantastic.

No, I really don't know how it's going to end up.

The lineup was decided 3 years ago and the general audience of 2018 was not a factor. That means a port of X literally has no merit in the decisions because they can't even answer that question 3 years ago.


The ballot absolutely has merit because that's how we got K. Rool. Obviously, we weren't going to get every ballot request, nor were we going to only get ballot requests. But as everyone has said since day 1, hype responsibly. I'm honestly confused with what you're trying to say here because you just listed two characters that likely did very well on the ballot.


lmao with the hype for Ultimate right now, it doesn't need anything except to release tomorrow. Seriously, Twitter ate Piranha Plant up and it was on trending for hours and the absolute vast majority was happiness.

Look, maybe it's because of how the Direct was laid out, and you and I both can agree it was not paced very well. Some stuff wasn't really explained properly, and I can go on about it. Combine that with the sentiment of some deconfirmations and other stuff, I'm pretty sure it wasn't that idiotic going into this Direct thinking it would be fantastic considering it's Smash Ultimate and it'd be the "Final Smash Direct" for Ultimate.

 

[Noipoi]

Can confirm that's the case, I checked the kanjis and they can indeed form "Kabi" backwards.

Sakurai is honestly too good.

Kirby really is the star of the show.

 

[staindgrey]

C'mon Sakurai Kun! The power of Nayru can't deflect this damn beam but a Hylian Shield can? Stop tampering with the LoZ source material, the canon is already quite a mess as it is. Shame! What the hell is wrong with you!?

Oh and also...

Spoiler

Can I just say that Zelda's look of determination is ****ing badass?

She's not a princess in a castle. She's not getting kidnapped. She sees a threat, grits her teeth and fights it.

I'm softening my stance on her redesign.

 

[Mutsukki]

So yeah, that's my honest to god theory.


Sakurai's staging an epic showdown of all of Nintendo's characters, against arguably the most evil Nintendo character ever, that he himself made, Zero.

Might add that Galeem's japanese name is "Kiira" that can be read as "Killer", or "Kirakira" as shining, sparkling. No relation to Zero but it's a very Kirby-ish name I'd think

 

[Deleted member]

I mean what I said when it comes to DLC, of course the base roster is fantastic.

I think you're jumping the gun a bit when it comes DLC. Ultimately, it's your call on what you do, but I'd wait a bit before going all doomsday scenario. Of course, you could just not buy it. Just saying man.

 

[osby]

Honestly, so many echoes look basically identical that it's kinda frustrating they didn't want to do more.

Daisy, Dark Samus, Richter and Dark Pit are basically the same character from what it looks like, and any differences they do have won't matter in the majority of situations.

Lucina and Ken have some changes that at least change a bit of how the base character plays.

And Chrom got to be special.

Same can be said for every clone, tbh.

 

[Shroob]

Might add that Galeem's japanese name is "Kiira" that can be read as "Killer", or "Kirakira" as shining, sparkling. No relation to Zero but it's a very Kirby-ish name I'd think

Well, "Galeem" quite literally is "Gleam", lol.

 

[staindgrey]

GUYS

IT WASNT THE CHAIRS

View attachment 174972

PFFFFFTTT--!!!

That got a legitimate laugh from me. I love it.