Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[N3ON]

Vergeben is a slippery, opportunistic boy who twists his own words and throws his past claims under the bus when they don't look like they'll pan out as if he wasn't the one who spread them in the first place.

Still can't get over how he said Ridley would be at E3 in a presence other than Smash... apparently that was referring to his placement on the panoramic Smash banner. Yeah ok Verg. Somehow that isn't Smash.

Keep this in mind.

That said, none of his Smash claims are unbelievable.

 

[Knight Dude]

Well, I guess people are getting salted over a rumor/"leak" from a guy with a less than stellar track record.

I mean, I genuinely would want Incineroar or Buzzwole more than Ghost Owl, but there's no solid proof of that yet. So let's not try to get into keyboard warrior mode so fast.

 

[Will]

Okay, legitimate question. Did Simon seem incredibly likely before leaks started sprouting up? Or is it just a "Yeah, it's an obvious choice." thing now that Verge said it and he hasn't been "wrong" yet?

No.
I never heard of Simon support existing ever until the leaks.

EDIT: Do I think Simon is improbable? Yes. Do I think Simon is unfavored? No. I think ever since the leak Simon found a newfound spike of love and support, which I guess is a happy end for them even if Simon isn't in the game.

 

[Enchess]

Okay, legitimate question. Did Simon seem incredibly likely before leaks started sprouting up? Or is it just a "Yeah, it's an obvious choice." thing now that Verge said it and he hasn't been "wrong" yet?

Seems more like the second one to me. I don't think Simon was unlikely before (I personally think he was more likely than Bomberman pre-E3), but there wasn't really a reason to think he was in either.

 

[Will]

Oh boy is it bait hour already?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Did someone forget that Fire Emblem got a cut veteran to return (Roy) along with newcomers (Robin, Lucina, Corrin) in Wii U/3DS?

except 2 of those were dlc and another was a glorified alternate costume

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Jesus Christ I leave for three hours and y'all managed to go heckin' insane on each other. Who is selling the crazy pills in this joint? I skipped like 5 pages because I got bored of the arguments, so... did I miss anything else important?



Thoughts on Vergeben stuff: Sad if tru.

We talked about Alolan Dugtrio and Buzzwole, that's important in my book.

 

[ThreeT]

I find it kinda funny that people on here turned on Verge the moment he said ''Decidueye isn't in."

Before a lot of you were all ''SIMON IS COMING. VERGE IS RIGHT! VERGE VERGE VERGE."

What changed?

Yeah no. Many of us already didn't trust Verge and still do not. In fact as of recently he's just been doing whatever he wants. First he said he would stop talking about newcomers and then a week later he says Isabelle is in the game. Now he's "hinting" at a possible Gen 7 rep instead of just explicitly stating who it is. I can't really tell if he's telling the truth or just trying to rally attention but it's starting to piss me off!

Anyway we should stay skeptical. We don't even know if it's the same source leaking these characters as the previous ones.

 

[?????????????]

Simon was always one of my most wanted characters, but I don't remember him being called particularly "likely" before.

...I simply don't remember.

 

[Enchess]

except 2 of those were dlc and another was a glorified alternate costume

Already pointed out and that doesn't count because...um...reasons

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Okay, legitimate question. Did Simon seem incredibly likely before leaks started sprouting up? Or is it just a "Yeah, it's an obvious choice." thing now that Verge said it and he hasn't been "wrong" yet?

I think the strong Nintendo connections and Sakurai’s love for the series mean he’s been a possible candidate this whole time, but there was a definite uptick in support/confidence after the “leaks”.

 

[Will]

except 2 of those were dlc and another was a glorified alternate costume

People look at numbers, not what makes them more/less unique.

Also two of them were less characters and more advertisements.

 

[Deleted member]

Still interested in a "serpentine" character...

I got just the idea.

Everyone goes off about Goku as the token "manga/anime" rep. But what if instead we had Best Girl/Top Snek?

.....wait, on second thought, that means she could get hurt. Never mind that idea.... ._.

 

[N3ON]

Okay, legitimate question. Did Simon seem incredibly likely before leaks started sprouting up? Or is it just a "Yeah, it's an obvious choice." thing now that Verge said it and he hasn't been "wrong" yet?

Simon seeming obvious is egregious revisionism. He's a cool character and a good choice, but at best he was a third-party of middling popularity and expectation beforehand. Literally go back to look how rarely he's seriously discussed prior to Verg.

 

[Zinith]

I would assume Simon had support before Verge. He isn't exactly obscure

 

[vaanrose]

That said, he’s no less potentially legitimate than he was before.

As perhaps one of Verg's harshest critics, this.

The characters themselves aren't why you should believe or disbelieve him.

 

[Zinith]

I got just the idea.

Everyone goes off about Goku as the token "manga/anime" rep. But what if instead we had Best Girl/Top Snek?

.....wait, on second thought, that means she could get hurt. Never mind that idea.... ._.

And people thought Bayonetta was racy...

Also broken link

 

[Will]

I would assume Simon had support before Verge. He isn't exactly obscure

It's a third party, unless you're asking for Gex you're not expecting obscure characters to be mentioned.

 

[ReeseBalaski]

WOW! people still think Isabelle will be an Echo, Waluigi is a decent character, that there are going to be less than 5 Echoes and that Hades or Medusa will get in before Viridi, I am truly amazed how naive you all are.

Are the sparkles supposed to make your rude comments appear less tasteless? Cuz they don't.

Not to mention, these things don't have too much to do with the current discussion. Please don't start anything bad.

 

[Blargg888]

People look at numbers, not what makes them more/less unique.

Also two of them were less characters and more advertisements.

Eh, Roy was only an advertisement in Melee. Nowadays, he's actually a well liked character. And he got in on those merits this time around.

 

[SvartWolf]

No.
I never heard of Simon support existing ever until the leaks.

excuse me?!
we were certainly a small band of jolly fellows, but we definetly existed ._.

Still, we are gladly accepting all the badwagoning we can get :3 Castlevania Bandwagons are big and spacious.
(Skip to 6:51)

Frankly ... the thread was mostly dead cause we had all that Konami Meltdown saga... but snake and bomberman certainly helped...

 

[KMDP]

As perhaps one of Verg's harshest critics, this.

The characters themselves aren't why you should believe or disbelieve him.

Yes. The lack of evidence should be why you should disbelieve him.

 

[RandomAce]

Just as food for thought:

When Greninja was announced for Smash 4, it didn't even have a support thread on SmashBoards. I remember everyone went looking for one to congratulate the supporters after the Smash Direct, only to find there was no supporters to be found.

Pokemon characters are so hard to predict and this is totally another example as to why.

Just one thing.

There was a Greninja support thread in Smash 4. It had like only 8 or 10 people though.

 

[Will]

Speaking of leaks, when it comes to all these text leaks, what gets under your skin the most? It could the abundance of them or just other details.
For me it's just the whole "from a source" thing. I never and still will never understand that. I don't get why the source wouldn't just come out under their own made-up username. If you're a developer, nobody's going to know who you are specifically. Gematsu got lucky, but god knows where the actual person came from or what their job was if it was even listed.

excuse me?!
we were certainly a small band of jolly fellows, but we definetly existed ._.

Still, we are gladly accepting all the badwagoning we can get :3 Castlevania Bandwagons are big
(Skip to 6:51)

Dude there's Ridley, K. Rool, Geno, top of the town. But even in 2013 - 2014 I heard names like Duck Hunt, Chibi-Robo, Sable, and Takamaru.

Simon Belmont? Not even a whisper.

 

[Pretty Roger]

Sakurai never puts the "obvious" pokemon pick in Smash, Decidueye is not likely at all to me, but people can dream i guess

 

[cmbsfm]

Simon definitely had good amount of support prior to Vegeta leaking him, but yeah he wasn’t brought up in speculation post-Virginia’s leak.

I do think we are getting Castlevania content because of the Bomberman assist trophy. I just don’t think they would ignore that big of a franchise but yet represent Bomberman via AT. I also don’t see any Belmont working as a mii fighter either, none of them come close to their play styles. So playable character it is then?

Speaking of leaks, when it comes to all these text leaks, what gets under your skin the most? It could the abundance of them or just other details.
For me it's just the whole "from a source" thing. I never and still will never understand that. I don't get why the source wouldn't just come out under their own made-up username. If you're a developer, nobody's going to know who you are specifically. Gematsu got lucky, but god knows where the actual person came from or what their job was if it was even.

When they try to explain Sakurai’s thought process. Like how the **** would you know that unless you’re super close to him? And at that point it’d be easy to identify you.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Yes. The lack of evidence should be why you should disbelieve him.

I've seen enough Tumblr posts to know where this is headed

 

[KMDP]

Sakurai never puts the "obvious" pokemon pick in Smash, Decidueye is not likely at all to me, but people can dream i guess

Pikachu was obvious.
Mewtwo was obvious.
Pokémon Trainer was obvious.
Lucario was obvious.

Greninja was obvious in hindsight.

You are objectively wrong.

 

[Will]

Yes. The lack of evidence should be why you should disbelieve him.

How can you obtain evidence of a game in such an early build where there is likely no way to obtain a version of the game with them present in it? Let alone try to convince that you have files or even a trailer when that is handled from someone probably divisions and companies way beyond a leaker's grasp?

 

[N3ON]

Pikachu was obvious.
Mewtwo was obvious.
Pokémon Trainer was obvious.
Lucario was obvious.

Greninja was obvious in hindsight.

You are objectively wrong.

1. Pokemon Trainer wasn't obvious.
2. Hindsight doesn't count.

The rest, sure.

 

[SvartWolf]

top of the town. But even in 2013 - 2014 I heard names like Duck Hunt, Chibi-Robo, Sable, and Takamaru.

Simon Belmont? Not even a whisper.

while certainly not at the top, Simon was usually around place 20 or 25 in the top 100 characters most voted for smash in public polls. I know is not impressive, but you cant say that the support came from nowhere.

 

[wildvine47]

Simon always had a following, it was just super quiet due to the whole Konami situation.

Snake going missing made another Konami character seem nigh-impossible. Any conversation that did happen about it centered around Bomberman due to Super Bomberman R, putting Simon discussion even further in the hole.

But then the one two punch of Snake's return and Bomberman being banished to AT hell meant the doors were wide open for Simon. Even if Verge hadn't mentioned him, I guarantee you there would've been a huge upswell of Simon Belmont, or at least Castlevania, discussion after E3. Verge made it bigger, sure, but there would have been more talk of Simon post-E3 regardless.

 

[Deleted member]

Pikachu was obvious.
Mewtwo was obvious.
Pokémon Trainer was obvious.
Lucario was obvious.

Greninja was obvious in hindsight.

You are objectively wrong.

Pokémon Trainer wasn't really obvious.

One could argue Charizard itself was, but not the Trainer concept with it.

 

[KMDP]

How can you obtain evidence of a game in such an early build where there is likely no way to obtain a version of the game with them present in it? Let alone try to convince that you have files or even a trailer when that is handled from someone probably divisions and companies way beyond a leaker's grasp?

Which is why all leakers this early in the game should be treated with doubt.

 

[vaanrose]

Simon seeming obvious is egregious revisionism. He's a cool character and a good choice, but at best he was a third-party of middling popularity and expectation beforehand. Literally go back to look how rarely he's seriously discussed prior to Verg.

Simon was nowhere, lol. Even what little support he had was always hindered by the belief that Snake and Bomberman both had priority.

 

[Will]

Which is why all leakers this early in the game should be treated with doubt.

Doubt, but not disbelief. Even if a sliver of abundant amount information is on the nose, your default validity immediately goes up. Verginity is just too prideful in how he presents himself.

edit: yeah i aint puttin in another .gif this aint my thing

 

[Enchess]

Simon was nowhere, lol. Even what little support he had was always hindered by the belief that Snake and Bomberman both had priority.

Or at least Snake. Bomberman has always had the arguments around whether his limited moveset would keep him out.

 

[Blargg888]

Pikachu was obvious.
Mewtwo was obvious.
Pokémon Trainer was obvious.
Lucario was obvious.

Greninja was obvious in hindsight.

You are objectively wrong.

As someone who loves PT, I wouldn't exactly call them obvious.

Maybe the character PT looks like: "Red" seemed obvious, and maybe Charizard seemed obvious.

But who could have ever expected Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard to be playable as a single character under the name "Pokemon Trainer"?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Also please if Isabelle is revealed next.

Don't take that as a favor for Verge.

She's one of the most obvious and popular Nintendo characters right now.

He's not being bold by saying she's in. You might think ''BUT SHE'S PACIFIST AND FROM ANIMAL CROSSING A SERIES WITH NO FIGHTING ****."

That does not matter.

So please if by some chance a reveal happens soon and it's her? Please don't make Verge's potential word stronger based off just her alone.

 

[KMDP]

1. Pokemon Trainer wasn't obvious.
2. Hindsight doesn't count.

The rest, sure.

Pokémon Trainer wasn't really obvious.

One could argue Charizard itself was, but not the Trainer concept with it.

Right, right.

I'd say Pokémon Trainer is another case of hindsight (which, as you say, N3ON, doesn't count), Sakurai would want to represent the Trainer, Evolutions and three Kanto Starters, even better if it was all at once, but we couldn't have predicted it because we're not Sakurai.

Of course, once the pieces are in place, it becomes a "Ohhh... Of course they would do that" thing.