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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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MopedOfJustice

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Any thoughts on there being a new type(s) of Mii Fighters introduced for the game? The Mii Fighters aren't terribly popular, but I doubt they'll be going away. I think it's a potential newcomer most people are sleeping on, especially with Miitopia having come out.
I would love to see Mii Fighters get properly fleshed out, but I think the most you can really expect is the character being replaced with the same number of Miitopia classes, if even that.

Edit: Considering what a trainwreck Mii Fighters ended up as, it actually seems plausible that they just get replaced like that.
 
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TumblrFamous

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It's very unlikely anyone in Nintendo really puts up a fight about having their character in Smash. It's third parties that are the issue, and even then most companies that don't rhyme with "Bonami" play ball fairly easily.

Also, Ridley can be balanced around having a large frame and strong air mobility by making him rather light. If anything having a large frame in Smash is often to a character's detriment competitively, as have a larger hurtbox and can thusly be punished.
I always thought about Melee's intro with Ridley. I need to look back at it, but it didn't look too off.

I'm still iffy on Ridley. If they want to knock everyone's socks off and add Ridley, E3 is the time to do it. But I'm still skeptical. Sakurai seems pretty content with him being a boss character.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I always thought about Melee's intro with Ridley. I need to look back at it, but it didn't look too off.

I'm still iffy on Ridley. If they want to knock everyone's socks off and add Ridley, E3 is the time to do it. But I'm still skeptical. Sakurai seems pretty content with him being a boss character.
It's a matter of perspective, as Ridley is the same huge size as normal. Though the actual model looks far easier to downsize since it has reasonable proportions.

Anyway, I'd love him to be playable myself, but keeping him balanced is still part of the issue. Especially with that long tail. I could see him working a bit easier in a more traditional fighter, or even a pure 3D one(or semi-3D, like Soul Calibur).
 

PixelPasta

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Thanks again for all of your suggestions!
The survey takes a bit of time to complete, but it would be nice to get as many responses as possible. Tell your friends!

When I get at least 20 responses, I will make the summary charts available. Anyone who fills out the form will then be able to see the results.

At the end of the month, just before E3, I will put together the most popular choices into a collective fan-made ideal stage roster! Then, as information about the game finally begins to be revealed, we can compare our predictions/ideas to the real thing.
 

TumblrFamous

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It's a matter of perspective, as Ridley is the same huge size as normal. Though the actual model looks far easier to downsize since it has reasonable proportions.

Anyway, I'd love him to be playable myself, but keeping him balanced is still part of the issue. Especially with that long tail. I could see him working a bit easier in a more traditional fighter, or even a pure 3D one(or semi-3D, like Soul Calibur).
I have to say though, if he's included, his title card/trailer better reference him being "too big" just to mess with fans.
 

Roberk

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If someone like Ridley or K. Rool are to be added, it's E3 or bust honestly. I really don't see them just being a part of a twitter announcement/YouTube video.
 

Fenriraga

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Speaking of, will we even have character "Title Cards" this time around? That was kinda Smash 4's thing. The Inklings didn't have one, but that could always just be because of the surprise factor and not wanting to give it away.
 

Bradli Wartooth

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If Ridley gets in, I hope they make his splash art overly serious. "Ridley has been Resized to Appropriately Fit in the Game!!!"
 

Fenriraga

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If Ridley gets in, I hope they make his splash art overly serious. "Ridley has been Resized to Appropriately Fit in the Game!!!"
"RIDLEY

Was originally too large to compete in Super Smash Bros but thanks to careful consideration fan demand and other contributing factors we are allowing him to compete in the new Super Smash Bros title for the Nintendo Switch!"
 

Bradli Wartooth

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"RIDLEY

Was originally too large to compete in Super Smash Bros but thanks to careful consideration fan demand and other contributing factors we are allowing him to compete in the new Super Smash Bros title for the Nintendo Switch!"
If it's anything less than that, I'll be disappointed tbh.
 

Antimatter042

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Any thoughts on there being a new type(s) of Mii Fighters introduced for the game? The Mii Fighters aren't terribly popular, but I doubt they'll be going away. I think it's a potential newcomer most people are sleeping on, especially with Miitopia having come out.
Honestly given the poor reception to Custom Moves, which the Smash team are no doubt aware of given customs' initial high profile at EVO 2015 and their subsequent departure from the face of the earth, I think that Customs are likely the lowest priority "newcomers" of Smash 4. While Palutena can pull together a Best Bits moveset from what she has, and a couple of other characters like Ganondorf can use an old custom as the new standard, the Mii Fighters are tied wholly to custom moves as a reason to exist due to their lack of any identity. They're a concept that has been downgraded from a key part of Nintendo's previous 2 consoles to a picture option that few people actually use on Switch, with only a Wii U port in the way of playable representation. I'm not saying scrap the Wii era from Smash, we have WFT for that representation, but for the amount of work they and their moves take, and the poor reception of their concepts on multiple levels, I can't stress enough how utterly screwed the Mii Fighters are going into this game. I'd be less shocked if Pichu came back, frankly.
 
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Garteam

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If someone like Ridley or K. Rool are to be added, it's E3 or bust honestly. I really don't see them just being a part of a twitter announcement/YouTube video.
K. Rool I could see being unlockable, as he's kinda obscure outside of Smash's core fanbase (particularly among younger Nintendo fans), but Ridley is E3 or bust. There's no way they wouldn't make a big deal out of Ridley's addition.
 

Nekoo

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K. Rool I could see being unlockable, as he's kinda obscure outside of Smash's core fanbase (particularly among younger Nintendo fans), but Ridley is E3 or bust. There's no way they wouldn't make a big deal out of Ridley's addition.
Dont set up yourself in Disappointment like that...Remember Smash4 unlockable speculation when the leak appeared? People thinking K.Rool, Mewtwo Ridley, Roy or IC would be there after we knew that DR.Mario was back?
Edit: let's not forget Wolf too
 
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Roberk

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K. Rool I could see being unlockable, as he's kinda obscure outside of Smash's core fanbase (particularly among younger Nintendo fans), but Ridley is E3 or bust. There's no way they wouldn't make a big deal out of Ridley's addition.
Yeah K. Rool does seem a lot better unlockable. Now that I think about it him being revealed at E3 would be ridiculous. All of the gaming outlets would just go like "a fan favorite makes it into Smash bros" without knowing who he is and everyone out of the Smash community would have no idea. Smashboards would be crashboards either way but K. Rool is much better being keeping a low profile when it comes to general recognizability and relevance.
 

papagenos

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K. Rool I could see being unlockable, as he's kinda obscure outside of Smash's core fanbase (particularly among younger Nintendo fans), but Ridley is E3 or bust. There's no way they wouldn't make a big deal out of Ridley's addition.
IF Ridley is in I do think he's likely E3 material but I could also see like a final smash direct before the games release where they show him for imminent hype... but we'll see if he's even in at all.
 

Opossum

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Thanks again for all of your suggestions!
The survey takes a bit of time to complete, but it would be nice to get as many responses as possible. Tell your friends!

When I get at least 20 responses, I will make the summary charts available. Anyone who fills out the form will then be able to see the results.

At the end of the month, just before E3, I will put together the most popular choices into a collective fan-made ideal stage roster! Then, as information about the game finally begins to be revealed, we can compare our predictions/ideas to the real thing.
Took the survey! Pretty in-depth, which is appreciated.

One minor nitpick though. Akaneia is the Japanese name. The localized version is Archanea. :p
 

Antimatter042

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K. Rool is better as a Direct option when Nintendo are showing off primarily to their own fans. A lot of his appeal is lost on the average E3-viewing gamer and if people on this forum think Smash is struggling for 1st Party characters, imagine the everyday punter watching streams and looking at IGN news the day after seeing some crocodile from a 90s game (pardon the harsh generalisation, I'd like him in Smash too) made it in and was the big reveal. However, he's not best left unlockable simply because nobody is any more. I think to save frustration later on people should assume unlocks, like Smash Wii U, are an afterthought with very little to be excited about in the way of newcomers except a retro that could be kind of cool.
 
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True Blue Warrior

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K. Rool is better as a Direct option when Nintendo are showing off primarily to their own fans. A lot of his appeal is lost on the average E3-viewing gamer and if people on this forum think Smash is struggling for 1st Party characters, imagine the everyday punter watching streams and looking at IGN news the day after seeing some crocodile from a 90s game (pardon the harsh generalisation, I'd like him in Smash too) made it in and was the big reveal. However, he's not best left unlockable simply because nobody is any more. I think to save frustration later on people should assume unlocks, like Smash Wii U, are an afterthought with very little to be excited about in the way of newcomers except a retro that could be kind of cool.
If Palutena was one of the highlights of Nintendo's E3 back in 2014 whereas Pac-Man was only revealed behind closed doors, anything goes.
 

Icedragonadam

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If Cloud ends up returning, there better be music from other FF games.

My personal Picks:

We Have Arrived(Type-0): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DlfMZEvMuw

Battle on The Big Bridge(FFV): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0JnXdfoYpY&t=788s

The Decisive Battle(FFV): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuizMqRsTpY&t=1055s

Man With a Machine Gun(FFVIII): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0WdQDPRwb4&t=27s

Force Your Way(FFVIII): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU5c7-5xG-o&t=816s

You're Not Alone(FFIX): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tog9GjczJVE&t=417s
 

SonicMario

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Honestly given the poor reception to Custom Moves, which the Smash team are no doubt aware of given customs' initial high profile at EVO 2015 and their subsequent departure from the face of the earth, I think that Customs are likely the lowest priority "newcomers" of Smash 4. While Palutena can pull together a Best Bits moveset from what she has, and a couple of other characters like Ganondorf can use an old custom as the new standard, the Mii Fighters are tied wholly to custom moves as a reason to exist due to their lack of any identity. They're a concept that has been downgraded from a key part of Nintendo's previous 2 consoles to a picture option that few people actually use on Switch, with only a Wii U port in the way of playable representation. I'm not saying scrap the Wii era from Smash, we have WFT for that representation, but for the amount of work they and their moves take, and the poor reception of their concepts on multiple levels, I can't stress enough how utterly screwed the Mii Fighters are going into this game. I'd be less shocked if Pichu came back, frankly.
I don't know, even if they do remove Custom Moves for the most part. I still feel like they could at least make the Miis the only characters with Custom Moves. Plus the cheap Mii Fighter costume DLC had to make some good amount of money for Nintendo to consider using once again. Not to mention a huge reason they were included in the first place (Sakurai has said this himself) is so people who have very unlikely or impossible characters have a "Close enough" stand-in. I could see some kind of revamp or something done with them but I don't know if I can say they'd completely wipe Miis away completely. (Especially now that the Switch's Mii maker has more hair colors then the natural ones previous ones had, people could more accurately represent any anime/cartoon characters they like)
 

Fenriraga

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That's actually an interesting talking point. Of your most wanted characters, who do you feel is the most "E3 Worthy"?

For me, Geno would probably be either a Direct announcement or a standard character reveal, maybe even a secret character. I could maybe see Lyn being an E3 announcement, but they would maybe want to hold off on Fire Emblem for a bit. I guess Paper Mario, Rex & Pyra, Shantae and Simon are the most "E3 Worthy" of my choices.
 
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Antimatter042

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If Palutena was one of the highlights of Nintendo's E3 back in 2014 whereas Pac-Man was only revealed behind closed doors, anything goes.
Palutena was at least in a notable 3DS game that had recency on its side, at least (I may be biased because she was my most wanted newcomer and my hype was absolutely explosive in the moment). But all things considered, Nintendo's concept of advertising in those years was an enigma that I don't think we'll ever really understand and I can't see Switch-era Nintendo taking similar tactics. However, you're right that ultimately anything goes: they could go all in on getting the hardcore crowd and try to win the casuals by brand alone.
 
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FlareHabanero

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If someone like Ridley or K. Rool are to be added, it's E3 or bust honestly. I really don't see them just being a part of a twitter announcement/YouTube video.
I remember when people had that mentality with the last games, and neither happened for both E3 2013 and E3 2014.

Instead the show stoppers were built up to be Mega Man for E3 2013 and Pac-Man for E3 2014, the third-party reveals.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Thanks again for all of your suggestions!
The survey takes a bit of time to complete, but it would be nice to get as many responses as possible. Tell your friends!

When I get at least 20 responses, I will make the summary charts available. Anyone who fills out the form will then be able to see the results.

At the end of the month, just before E3, I will put together the most popular choices into a collective fan-made ideal stage roster! Then, as information about the game finally begins to be revealed, we can compare our predictions/ideas to the real thing.
The lack of FFVIII stuff is my only annoyance(could've gone up to IX overall for stages in that franchise. Might as well note all the PS1 games in the franchise among the mainline, as they're all big hits). But otherwise, very nice.
 

Caryslan

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Alright, I know he's from an obscure Game Boy game that was overshadowed when it came out, but after playing Mole Mania again, I really want Muddy Mole to make it in.
 

True Blue Warrior

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Regardless, I still think there is a good chance K. Rool could be revealed at E3

to be making his comeback in the newest Donkey Kong Country game.
 

Antimatter042

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I don't know, even if they do remove Custom Moves for the most part. I still feel like they could at least make the Miis the only characters with Custom Moves. Plus the cheap Mii Fighter costume DLC had to make some good amount of money for Nintendo to consider using once again. Not to mention a huge reason they were included in the first place (Sakurai has said this himself) is so people who have very unlikely or impossible characters have a "Close enough" stand-in. I could see some kind of revamp or something done with them but I don't know if I can say they'd completely wipe Miis away completely. (Especially now that the Switch's Mii maker has more hair colors then the natural ones previous ones had, people could more accurately represent any anime/cartoon characters they like)
The idea behind Miis as "close enough" fighters is decent in theory, but given the reception to them I question whether making 3 blank slates with heaps of custom moves and costumes is actually worth the effort. In my opinion they only thing that will save them is, as you mentioned, the Mii Fighter costume DLC potentially making a huge load of money we don't know about, but I can't imagine they made more than a few pennies in the grand scheme of things when the 7 fighters were front and centre.
 

Garteam

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Dont set up yourself in Disappointment like that...Remember Smash4 unlockable speculation when the leak appeared? People thinking K.Rool, Mewtwo Ridley, Roy or IC would be there after we knew that DR.Mario was back?
Edit: let's not forget Wolf too
i don't really expect Ridley as a shoe-in, I'm more or less saying its E3 or bust for Riddles. If he's there, great! My most wanted character is in. If he isn't, then there's no way he's in the base roster.
 

Llort A. Ton

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I think any 3rd party character is gonna be revealed before release, wether they're unlockable or not. Snake and Sonic were secret characters while being used to heavily advertise the game. All of our 3rd party characters were starters last time around, which is useful for competitive players that dont wanna unlock characters in general and casuals that want their characters out of the box, but if you ask me you should earn Mega Man and Pac Man like how we had to earn Snake and Sonic!

...Tangent aside, out of my wanted characters I'd say the most E3 worthy would be from a pool of K. Rool, Ridley, Banjo Kazooie and the grand return of Snake. (That's not including the other 3rd parties that have only gotten their followings after the Switch launched, like Crash Bandicoot or Doomguy. They're for E3 2019 :laugh: )
 

Roberk

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I remember when people had that mentality with the last games, and neither happened for both E3 2013 and E3 2014.

Instead the show stoppers were built up to be Mega Man for E3 2013 and Pac-Man for E3 2014, the third-party reveals.
Not saying they have to be the big reveal at E3 or else E3 is bad. I'm talking in the case of Ridley himself. Ridley wouldn't be revealed in some off update video, he'd be hyped up for a reveal at E3 or not at all.
 

Opossum

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That's actually an interesting talking point. Of your most wanted characters, who do you feel is the most "E3 Worthy"?

For me, Geno would probably be either a Direct announcement or a standard character reveal, maybe even a secret character. I could maybe see Lyn being an E3 announcement, but they would maybe want to hold off on Fire Emblem for a bit. I guess Paper Mario, Rex & Pyra, Shantae and Simon are the most "E3 Worthy" of my choices.
Of the characters I really want (see sig) I can only see Decidueye and Waluigi being revealed at this E3...mainly because I think Crash's best shot is a DLC reveal. :p
 

SonicMario

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The idea behind Miis as "close enough" fighters is decent in theory, but given the reception to them I question whether making 3 blank slates with heaps of custom moves and costumes is actually worth the effort. In my opinion they only thing that will save them is, as you mentioned, the Mii Fighter costume DLC potentially making a huge load of money we don't know about, but I can't imagine they made more than a few pennies in the grand scheme of things when the 7 fighters were front and centre.
Most of the reception you cite is in terms of the competitive side of the fanbase. When we get to the full extents of what the Miis are supposed to cater to, you have to include not just people who would be happy enough with close enough costumes. But young kids (Or those young at heart) who like having fun making themselves, their families, celebrities, and non-Video game characters as fighters in Smash. The Mii Fighters as they were weren't exactly the most robust custom fighter there is, but was probably enough to make the younger fans happy.

As Sakurai said "The younger the fans are, the more unrealistic the requests get"
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Not saying they have to be the big reveal at E3 or else E3 is bad. I'm talking in the case of Ridley himself. Ridley wouldn't be revealed in some off update video, he'd be hyped up for a reveal at E3 or not at all.
Unless he's DLC, of course. But yeah, I do think e3 would be the natural reveal if he's on the base roster. It makes the most sense.
 

Icedragonadam

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I've just seen that massive E3 leak from the Walmart Canada site. I hope's there more, because it seems like E3 is going to be bleh again with Smash Switch and Metroid Prime 4 being the only saving graces.

 

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Hey, this is Nintendo we're talking about.

It would be pure chaos.
Still, if you want to show off an upcoming game, it would probably be smart if the tournament is all 1-on-1. Once the 1-on-1 tournament concludes, the semifinalists would do some 4-player free-for-all matches, and the first player to win 3 matches would win the free-for-all.
 

Llort A. Ton

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I've just seen that massive E3 leak from the Walmart Canada site. I hope's there more, because it seems like E3 is going to be bleh again with Smash Switch and Metroid Prime 4 being the only saving graces.

Bleh? What do you mean? WHEEL OF FORTUNE is in development! AND its an Xbox One exclusive! Move over Smash Bros, theres a new exclusive party game in town and its ready to bury the Switch in Wheel of Fortune hype! :grin:
 

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I've just seen that massive E3 leak from the Walmart Canada site. I hope's there more, because it seems like E3 is going to be bleh again with Smash Switch and Metroid Prime 4 being the only saving graces.

The lack of Switch support from Square Enix is slightly concerning if this is true. Both Xbox One and PS4 are getting the FFVII remake and Dragon Quest 2 (whatever that is supposed to be), while the Switch gets nothing. It probably won't effect Cloud's chances of returning too much, but it is a little concerning.
 

Pazzo.

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Still, if you want to show off an upcoming game, it would probably be smart if the tournament is all 1-on-1. Once the 1-on-1 tournament concludes, the semifinalists would do some 4-player free-for-all matches, and the first player to win 3 matches would win the free-for-all.
Nintendo thought it was a better idea to do a bunch of 4 v 4 last year that lead up to the 1 v 1s, but unlike everyone else I don't have an uncle who works for Nintendo.

So who knows.
 
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