Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[AwesomeAussie27]

The winner was Mona, probably was part of her plan to get back at Wario. Orbulon plaid in comparison to 9-Volt and Jimmy T in the long run.

Next up are the rest of the WarioWare gang, including two popular Assist trophies. Your choices are Ashley, Kat & Ana, Dr Crygor, and Young Cricket.

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Begin.

Where is Ashley?

I'm not too familar with the rules of your voting thing so I have to ask.

Where is Ashley?

I wanted to focus on the original cast first, then go for the newer characters like her and Young Cricket later.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Here's achallenge.

Take each third party series represented in Smash and think of a new stage for each of them.

Sonic - Something that isn’t world one again, ha
Pac-Man - Just bring back the WiiU stage again

 

[A Distant Demon]

Here's achallenge.

Take each third party series represented in Smash and think of a new stage for each of them.

- That tower in the middle of the town in Bayo 2. Dont remember the name
- Balamb Garden LET ME DREAM. Realistically, Highwind.
- I've only played a bit of MM1. so. . .Inside Wily's castle? AKA where a lot of the action happens? IDK man
- City Escape
- A board from Pac Man Fever The treetop areas from Pac Man World 2 were my personal favorites.
- Yang's Stage

 

[Senselessbreak]

Oh boy oh boy actual fun discussions.

One question, does it have to be from the most-relevant part of said series? Like, it has to be a MegaMan Classic stage as opposed to X or BN or something of the sort. And if FF has to be from 7 because Cloud.

I imagine that an AT from FF15 is going to get added to help Cloud this time around. Probably not Noctis incase they make him playable, but I can see Ignis or Gladio being an AT. Also a FF15 stage would be nice.

 

[Opossum]

Here's achallenge.

Take each third party series represented in Smash and think of a new stage for each of them.

Give me the Pac-Village from Pac-Man World 2 and I'm set.


Or Butane Pain so I can relive my childhood PTSD.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Love 'em both, but Celica is outright one of my favorite characters in the franchise. I think she has a fairly good shot for Smash, as well, mainly because the development timeline matched up really well with Smash's.

I think FE16 came around WAAAAAAAY too late to be a Greninja situation.

Sakurai said that if Awakening came out 7 months after development for Smash started that Robin and Lucina may not have made it in, and also said it’s not as if they have a stipulation that says “we have to include the protagonist of the next Fire Emblem game”. Plus Sakurai already felt the amount of FE in the game was too much, and the main reason Corrin got in was because of his unique characteristic of transforming parts of their body and extending it with incredible reach, and I don't think Celica has the same amount of unique potential, so I don't know about that.

 

[RouffWestie]

Here's achallenge.

Take each third party series represented in Smash and think of a new stage for each of them.

Sonic Mania - Several Sonic Mania zones in one stage. The Phantom Ruby will teleport fighters to a different zone at set intervals. Studiopolis Act 1 and Press Garden Act 2 must be included.
Gravity Man's Stage - Gravity will flip the fighters upside down, but only on certain parts of the stage. The only real reason I chose it is because it has my favorite song of the entire classic MM franchise.
Clyde in the Caldera - This is definitely a good idea, right?

Haven't played any of their games so I don't know any other locations

 

[AlphaSSB]

Love 'em both, but Celica is outright one of my favorite characters in the franchise. I think she has a fairly good shot for Smash, as well, mainly because the development timeline matched up really well with Smash's.

I think FE16 came around WAAAAAAAY too late to be a Greninja situation.

Once again, since you're kinda my go-to for this sort of thing, I have another Fire Emblem/Smash question.

Alm and Celica are both protagonists of Echoes, right? I know Awakening had Chrom, Robin, and Lucina. Who do you feel has a better chance at getting in, Alm or Celica, and why?

I've read good and bad in regards to Celica, based off of yours and others' posts in the RTC thread, but I know nothing of Alm. Curious as to why some seem to believe that she has a better shot.

 

[BluePikmin11]

No joke, the FE/Pokemon placeholder spot and 6 month Robin Sakurai quote discussion is probably the most frustrating thing I have wanted answers for Smash speculation ever. This could literally be the biggest discovery for Smash speculators, but I keep losing my sense of time to put all of the pieces together. It's been such a habit, that I have yet to properly rate Celica's chances in RTC because of it.

 

[Opossum]

I can give reasons why Daisy would be in the front of the line.

• Toad/Captain Toad’s essence involves him not really fighting, but using the environment. He has been excluded from a lot of sports games for this reason.

• Waluigi, being scrawny and generally slower/less active than Daisy is could possible bring him down. Plus, he is less popular than she is in Japan especially (she also appears in more games). But I think he is the second most viable Mario representative.

• Geno is less relevant than Daisy, only being in one game.

• Pauline has never ever been playable in a Mario game ever, and her main thing in Odyssey is being a singer in the background.

• Mario Number 3 should absolutely stay away from Smash. Why three Marios? I would not be against him if he wasn’t Mario again, but he IS! Combined with the fact that Mario isn’t exactly starving of potential characters makes me skeptical of his chances.

• Daisy does not have the problems of not being able to jump or fight, has potential to really stand out with a flower and sports moveset that is energetic and encapsulates her character and history.

Someone said they're a Daisy fan but expressed why they don't want her in Smash.

You, in turn, list off reasons why they "hate Daisy."

I'm not saying I AGREE with it, but this is exactly where the stigma against Daisy fans comes from.

 

[Megadoomer]

Here's achallenge.

Take each third party series represented in Smash and think of a new stage for each of them.

Sonic: Chemical Plant Zone - it would be nice to see something other than Green Hill variants
Mega Man: if other Mega Man series count, then the Highway from the opening of Mega Man X. If not, then Air Man's stage.
Pac-Man: one of the boss stages from Pac-Man World 2. Inky's, Pinky's, and Clyde's are pretty much interchangeable.
Street Fighter: Guile's stage from Street Fighter 2.
Final Fantasy: I'm still in the early game for Final Fantasy 7, but would the Golden Saucer be an option? If I could pick from any game in the series, I'd go with Kefka's Tower from Final Fantasy 6, or the Chaos Shrine/Temple of Fiends from Final Fantasy 1.
Bayonetta: the airport, during the fight with Iustitia.

Bonus: for Metal Gear, I'd like to see Tselinoyarsk from MGS3, or Mother Base.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I realize the conversation has effectively passed at this point, but really, who cares if Bayonetta was truly the highest voted character in the ballot or not?

Bayonetta getting in doesn’t mean your precious most wanted was specifically passed over in favor of her. This is coming from me, a dude who wanted Snake to come back.

This is a ****ing stupid conversation. It already happened, get over it and look to the future. Figuring out if a conspiracy is true or not (which will never happen unless Sakurai tells us anyway) is a fruitless effort because it doesn’t change the end result.

Talk about fun stuff, like movesets and how cool characters would play in interesting ways.

Also, Daisy is a boring inclusion (imo) and there are better characters you can pick from in other series. Come at me my dudes. Don’t pick characters to represent something (that’s a stupid reason imo), pick a character that would be fun and appealing to the average player.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel gipped that I didn't get a Lor Starcutter stage.

DID SOMEONE SAY THEY WANT A STAGE FROM KIRBY'S RETURN TO DREAMLAND?
Seriously, that game might be in my top ten of all games even, IDK. I love that game.
I would love to have a Lor Starcutter stage.

Here's achallenge.

Take each third party series represented in Smash and think of a new stage for each of them.

: UHH..... that graveyard stage? IDK.
: I have seen a play thorugh but IDK. Maybe the tower where

Spoiler: SPOILER ALERT

Aerith Gainsborough dies.

: Wily's Castle
: Return the 3DS stage, or some other bizarre Pac-Man place.
: City Escape Stage
: IDK... the place where the characters fight in the trailer where it has sheeps and stuff?

I am acting like an idiot, sorry Swamp.

 

[Opossum]

Once again, since you're kinda my go-to for this sort of thing, I have another Fire Emblem/Smash question.

Alm and Celica are both protagonists of Echoes, right? I know Awakening had Chrom, Robin, and Lucina. Who do you feel has a better chance at getting in, Alm or Celica, and why?

I've read good and bad in regards to Celica, based off of yours and others' posts in the RTC thread, but I know nothing of Alm. Curious as to why some seem to believe that she has a better shot.

Long story short, Alm is in the same spot Chrom was. He's a sword lord. Like Chrom, he gets another weapon after promotion (Chrom got lances, Alm got bows), but considering both of their co-leads have more obvious potential (Robin having a tome durability mechanic and Celica having, essentially, an improved version of Pichu's, being a high power self-damaging glass cannon), it's more likely they'd be picked instead.

But even then, while I prefer Celica, I love Alm as well, and think he could be pretty neat in Smash. I just don't see him as a likely pick due to what went down with Chrom, who was basically in the same spot.

 

[9Volt]

I remember when we were all hoping for a Return To Dreamland stage for Smash 4, and ended up with Dream Land and The Great Cave Offensive, the latter I had high hopes for but was disappointed when I found out it was another one of those eight-player stages.

I want some space-based Kirby stages from Robobot or Return To Dreamland, or the autumn stage from Star Allies. In fact there's a lot of cool stuff from Star Allies they could use for stages, though I think a Robobot stage would be more inventive.

The problem is, I doubt Sakurai would ever pull Kirby stages not part of his own games, so it'll just be Dreamland, Adventure, and Super Star stages until the end of time.


We're approaching GameFaqs levels of argumentation here.

On his Famicon article, Sakurai said that originally on Smash 4 the Kirby stage was going to be based on Epic Yarn, but because Wooly World, they changed. He knows people say he is biased, I think the new game is going to have a stage based on a new kirby game.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Long story short, Alm is in the same spot Chrom was. He's a sword lord. Like Chrom, he gets another weapon after promotion (Chrom got lances, Alm got bows), but considering both of their co-leads have more obvious potential (Robin having a tome durability mechanic and Celica having, essentially, an improved version of Pichu's, being a high power self-damaging glass cannon), it's more likely they'd be picked instead.

But even then, while I prefer Celica, I love Alm as well, and think he could be pretty neat in Smash. I just don't see him as a likely pick due to what went down with Chrom, who was basically in the same spot.

I don't see them as likely since they were from remakes and not from the newest gen of Fire Emblem reps.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Chrom didn't get shot down because "he was in the same spot" as Celica.

He got shot down because he's a boring character.

You know you have a lame character when even Masahiro "Includes Dark Pit" Sakurai finds Chrom boring.

 

[T-Hell]

At this point these discussions have just gone to an infinite loop of the same topics all the time. This is like what, the 38th time we go back to FE speculation.. Honestly I think we should give it a rest until more information is finally given or else we might turn insane lmao.

 

[Morbi]

Sonic: Chemical Plant Zone - it would be nice to see something other than Green Hill variants
Mega Man: if other Mega Man series count, then the Highway from the opening of Mega Man X. If not, then Air Man's stage.
Pac-Man: one of the boss stages from Pac-Man World 2. Inky's, Pinky's, and Clyde's are pretty much interchangeable.
Street Fighter: Guile's stage from Street Fighter 2.
Final Fantasy: I'm still in the early game for Final Fantasy 7, but would the Golden Saucer be an option? If I could pick from any game in the series, I'd go with Kefka's Tower from Final Fantasy 6, or the Chaos Shrine/Temple of Fiends from Final Fantasy 1.
Bayonetta: the airport, during the fight with Iustitia.

Bonus: for Metal Gear, I'd like to see Tselinoyarsk from MGS3, or Mother Base.

That is a better idea than I had, the Golden Saucer. Other than that, I forgot about Highway, that is one of the only stages I am even aware of from the game. I would, at this point, unconditionally trust your opinion with stages. Your ideas are lit.

I realize the conversation has effectively passed at this point, but really, who cares if Bayonetta was truly the highest voted character in the ballot or not?

Bayonetta getting in doesn’t mean your precious most wanted was specifically passed over in favor of her. This is coming from me, a dude who wanted Snake to come back.

This is a ****ing stupid conversation. It already happened, get over it and look to the future. Figuring out if a conspiracy is true or not (which will never happen unless Sakurai tells us anyway) is a fruitless effort because it doesn’t change the end result.

Talk about fun stuff, like movesets.

Also, Daisy is a boring inclusion (imo) and there are better characters you can pick from in other series. Come at me my dudes. Don’t pick characters to represent something (that’s a stupid reason imo), pick a character that would be fun and appealing to the average player.

Clearly a lot of people care, and most of them did not want anyone other than Bayonetta. They just want to defend Nintendo's integrity. It does not need to change anything to merit discussion. If everyone had that mentality, this world would be a terrible place. "Oh, it happened, let us just ignore it and do something fun." Probably why politics have flared up in recent years. Either way, I have fun discussing facts with people who want to deny reality, a bit more fun than move-sets if you ask me.

 

[Opossum]

I don't see them as likely since they were from remakes and not from the newest gen of Fire Emblem reps.

Remakes effect Smash. Otherwise the 3DS version wouldn't have an Ocarina of Time stage. The 3DS version of it is what gave it that stage. And Sakurai said during Brawl that, had he known earlier, he would have given Marth his updated look from Shadow Dragon.

But even beyond that, it's not the same thing as, say, ORAS or Twilight Princess HD. This was a modern remaster of a Japan-only NES game. For the vast majority of the world it WAS a brand new game. And for what it's worth the remakes are considered mainline entries for Fire Emblem.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Chrom didn't get shot down because "he was in the same spot" as Celica.

He got shot down because he's a boring character.

You know you have a lame character when even Masahiro "Includes Dark Pit" Sakurai finds Chrom boring.

haha funny last minute addition is a totes good argument

 

[Morbi]

haha funny last minute addition is a totes good argument

I highly doubt a character they were marketing since the beginning was added last minute. Pretty sure Dark Pit, at least, was planned much earlier. Not that it makes a difference, really.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Long story short, Alm is in the same spot Chrom was. He's a sword lord. Like Chrom, he gets another weapon after promotion (Chrom got lances, Alm got bows), but considering both of their co-leads have more obvious potential (Robin having a tome durability mechanic and Celica having, essentially, an improved version of Pichu's, being a high power self-damaging glass cannon), it's more likely they'd be picked instead.

But even then, while I prefer Celica, I love Alm as well, and think he could be pretty neat in Smash. I just don't see him as a likely pick due to what went down with Chrom, who was basically in the same spot.

As always, I appreciate your incite.

You do make Celica sound appealing, even for someone who's views towards Fire Emblem are rather negative. The idea of strong fire attacks that deal self-damage actually sounds like an interesting cross between Roy and Pichu. Maybe if Fire Emblem gets some good cuts leading to her getting in, and she functions like how she does in your moveset for her, I'd give her a shot.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Chrom didn't get shot down because "he was in the same spot" as Celica.

He got shot down because he's a boring character.

You know you have a lame character when even Masahiro "Includes Dark Pit" Sakurai finds Chrom boring.

Its sad because playing the mods of Chrom, hes a fun character. Hes basically a mix of Marth, Ike, Roy and Cpt Falcon (literally) but still feels different.

 

[Fenriraga]

I imagine that an AT from FF15 is going to get added to help Cloud this time around. Probably not Noctis incase they make him playable, but I can see Ignis or Gladio being an AT. Also a FF15 stage would be nice.

As much as I do genuinely love 15, I'd prefer we actually get to referencing the Nintendo-Famous Final Fantasy games before jumping up to beyond 7. But I'd be fine regardless.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I will try to rate Celica from a different perspective in RTC. I am not sure if I will agree with it right now, but I think it will serve for good discussion.

 

[Chiroz]

A new FF stage should have Chocobos somewhere. Maybe something like Gogoat?

Ryu needs the car stage from SF2 (the one where you just beat up a car for points) with Guile's theme.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

At risk of getting mauled by Alm fans, he is a bland character.

Didn't stop Corrin from getting in.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Daisy can't even get in as assist trophy to represent the very same spin-offs people call her to represent or as a proper alt for Peach though.

She has to beat at most Toad/Captain Toad, Waluigi, Paper Mario, Pauline, and **** even Geno at this point.

If she's in a line. She's at the back of it.

Make her a Peach alt, change her voice. I don't even care if Daisy's in but it's honestly an obvious choice and I do wonder why Sakurai hasn't done it yet.

 

[FlareHabanero]

haha funny last minute addition is a totes good argument

Don't care. It's still hypocritical. If he actually stuck true to his word, he wouldn't be there to begin with.

I'd argue Lucina is even worse in this regard actually. Like he's say Chrom is too similar to Marth and Ike, yet still have the guts to include Lucina right after saying that. I don't even like Chrom much and even I thought that was a kick in the teeth.

 

[Morbi]

A new FF stage should have Chocobos somewhere. Maybe something like Gogoat?

Ryu needs the car stage from SF2 (the one where you just beat up a car for points) with Guile's theme.

I wish they would add Fat Chocobo as an assist trophy. Please... I do not ask for much, but that would be so ****ing hilarious. If they did add Chocbo similar to Gogoat, they need to include the metal chocobo theme.

Didn't stop Corrin from getting in.

That is my biggest fear, what if the Fire Emblem Switch character is boring af? We are probably still going to get them, even if it is for DLC. And I am incompetent enough to purchase literally every DLC character regardless of who they are... Pls help.

 

[RosiePeaches]

Also, Daisy is a boring inclusion (imo) and there are better characters you can pick from in other series. Come at me my dudes. Don’t pick characters to represent something (that’s a stupid reason imo), pick a character that would be fun and appealing to the average player.

I think there are a lot of people who want Daisy in the game...just because they want Daisy in the game! Why do you think she is still in games and got her own standalone amiibo? Why was she picked to be the only new character in Mario Run by herself?

 

[Superyoshiom]

Please don't hate me but I don't want any Mario newcomer in Smash5.

That's not an unpopular opinion in the slightest. It's more of something we can kind of expect, really, and even then I can only really think of Captain Toad.

It would be hilarious if Pauline got in, but she was a DK rep over Dixie and K. Rool.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I highly doubt a character they were marketing since the beginning was added last minute. Pretty sure Dark Pit, at least, was planned much earlier. Not that it makes a difference, really.

morbi
literally when the **** was Dark Pit marketed? The Palutena trailer was the ONLY time we even got a hint he was playable before release, and as we all know, finishing game development happens a month or os before release as they have to ship the copies to retailers and make sure there's enough supply. Literally what ****ing evidence do you have to claim that Dark Pit was always planned as a last minute clone or that he was marketed since the beginning?

Don't care. It's still hypocritical. If he actually stuck true to his word, he wouldn't be there to begin with.

I'd argue Lucina is even worse in this regard actually. Like he's say Chrom is too similar to Marth and Ike, yet still have the guts to include Lucina right after saying that. I don't even like Chrom much and even I thought that was a kick in the teeth.

You're not very bright are you? Saying "I had to choose between these characters and Magic Man was more unique" and "We've got five minutes left, let's do this low effort clone who was gonna be a skin anyway" are the same isn't the same

 

[9Volt]

Don't care. It's still hypocritical. If he actually stuck true to his word, he wouldn't be there to begin with.

I'd argue Lucina is even worse in this regard actually. Like he's say Chrom is too similar to Marth and Ike, yet still have the guts to include Lucina right after saying that. I don't even like Chrom much and even I thought that was a kick in the teeth.

Clearly you are better prepared to desing Smash 5 than him.

 

[New_Dumal]

I don't know why, but I don't see a FE SoV character happening (Alm or Celica), even though I like the game much more than Awakening/Fates.I hope and I think that Anna will be playable.
Time to swing some axe and make some cash.

 

[Icedragonadam]

So tommorow is the 3rd anniversary of Lucas's reveal and the Ballot. I do hope we get some information in April.

I guess for each new 3rd party stage.

City Escape
Maybe a Megaman X stage
Don't know
Volcanic Rim
Northern Cave/Planet's Core
Uhh that main city in Bayonetta 2?

 

[Senselessbreak]

As much as I do genuinely love 15, I'd prefer we actually get to referencing the Nintendo-Famous Final Fantasy games before jumping up to beyond 7. But I'd be fine regardless.

Square Enix is in extreme FF15 shill mode. They want that in everything and anything. They will probably go as far as contract Nintendo to include FF15 content in order to use Cloud.

 

[Morbi]

morbi
literally when the **** was Dark Pit marketed? The Palutena trailer was the ONLY time we even got a hint he was playable before release, and as we all know, finishing game development happens a month or os before release as they have to ship the copies to retailers and make sure there's enough supply. Literally what ****ing evidence do you have to claim that Dark Pit was always planned as a last minute clone or that he was marketed since the beginning?

You're not very bright are you? Saying "I had to choose between these characters and Magic Man was more unique" and "We've got five minutes left, let's do this low effort clone who was gonna be a skin anyway" are the same isn't the same

Oh, again with the semantics, there was the promotional image with Dark Pit and the Smash characters along with Palutena's trailer referencing him in the same way that Game and Watch was alluded to along with his statement on clone characters that implied there was at least one more.

Honestly, at this point, you people genuinely make me feel like a conspiracy theorist for just connecting the dots. Holy ****.

 

[Superyoshiom]

Square Enix is in extreme FF15 shill mode. They want that in everything and anything. They will probably go as far as contract Nintendo to include FF15 content in order to use Cloud.

If what you're saying is true, then it's honestly infuriating that they'd shill for a game they won't even put on a Nintendo platform.