Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[UserKev]

Doc.. is a decent choice, but I don't think he really has much reason to be anything other than a sideline character for Little Mac.

Doc Luis is a fit right in character for Smash. To me. I can see him calling characters by carefully selected nicknames.

Like, he'd uppercut Jigglypuff and quote "Gotcha, puffball." Puffer fish for Kirby is another example. Or plumber man for Mario.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm not in for adding villains just because they are villains, only if they are interessting characters. Wolf, King K.Rool and maybe Ganon and am really not looking for anything else. Ridley is a boat that has drifted away far, far, far away from the Smash coast so that's no longer a possibility. At least, to me it's made clear that Sakurai will never make Ridley a playable fighter in Smash Bros., and maybe it's for the better.

The 'we need villains' phrase was really mostly used to justify Ridley in honestly. So I think we can leave that behind, just like Ridley. We don't need any more females either. But what I really WOULD like is an addition of heavier fighters, cause there was nobody outside of Bowser Jr. in Smash For who fitted that role.

Now I can't think of any potential heavy weights outside of King K.Rool and maybe an ARMS fighter, but I'm sure there's probably some characters I don't care about that fill the heavy role well.

There's literally so many light weight characters that the character who was supposedly balanced as 'jack of all trades' -Mario is actually a heavy weight in Smash, am guessing he's about 20th heaviest or so, making him one of the heavier fighters in Smash.

 

[Luminario]

We don't need any more females either.

Yeah we do. Unlike villains, women are a large part of the target demographic here so you can't really group them together.
I know that when picking character for Smash what they do should be the main focus but who they are is also important.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah we do. Unlike villains, women are a large part of the target demographic here so you can't really group them together.
I know that when picking character for Smash what they do should be the main focus but who they are is also important.

Diddy is simply saying that we should avoid asking for women just because they were women. If he didn't think girls had any place, Impa wouldn't be his number one pick for everything.

We use to have a LOT of people who just screamed for more women back in the day. They didn't care if the character was worthwhile or if the character had moveset potential or if the character was even popular, just the fact that they were women. They led to some of the most awkward, infuriating and sometimes insulting times I've seen here. I remember reading that didn't count as a woman at one point.

I think Smash 4 has included a lot of strong female characters and that's a good thing. We also got some great women candidates to include in future games as well.

But saying we need more women also sends me back to those awkward times. Just a reflex and this point.

*shudder*

 

[True Blue Warrior]

We don't need any more females either

That's not how it works. Gender =/= arbitrary quota. Besides we still have the likes of Inklings (and this is coming from someone who didn't care one way or another about the lack of female characters among the Brawl newcomers).

Diddy is simply saying that we should avoid asking for women just because they were women. If he didn't think girls had any place, Impa wouldn't be his number one pick for everything.

We use to have a LOT of people who just screamed for more women back in the day. They didn't care if the character was worthwhile or if the character had moveset potential or if the character was even popular, just the fact that they were women

This is what I feel as well. Some people just wanted more female characters for the sake of filling an quota and it's definetly safe to say their request generally had nothing to do with being progressive.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah we do. Unlike villains, women are a large part of the target demographic here so you can't really group them together.
I know that when picking character for Smash what they do should be the main focus but who they are is also important.

I think Smash Wii U fixed most of that honestly. It had more female newcomers than any game before in the series. Even Avatar characters who had both male and female versions of the character got represented... I fail to see why new female characters should be a priority yet again.

I do support Dixie however, and she's one of the few actual popular female lead characters of Nintendo. Also Impa, Lyn, Krystal, Anna, but outside of Impa, there's other characters from the same franchise as the female characters I mentioned that will probably get priority over them. And they're male.

Dixie and K.Rool have about equal chances I feel.
Impa and Midna are pretty much the only Zelda characters you hear about nowadays.
Lyn and Anna are questionable, we might just not get a new FE character.
And Krystal will never make it in before Wolf...

Outside of these I don't think there's many characters within existing Nintendo franchises that have a chance. Could be wrong though.

If you wanna be so socially correct, it's about time we get characters from different color and ethnicities. Mii doesn't fix this at all.

We we need Anthony Higgs people, please understand.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Could have been worse, like people asking for more LGBT fighters when Nintendo has few notable ones to begin with and Corrin was chosen for more reasons than his own sexuality.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Could have been worse, like people asking for more LGBT fighters when Nintendo has few notable ones to begin with and Corrin was chosen for more reasons than his own sexuality.

Was that an actual thing?

If you wanna be so socially correct, it's about time we get characters from different color and ethnicities. Mii doesn't fix this at all.

The Inklings are guaranteed to have male and female alts with different skin colours to choose from. Also, as unlikely as he is, Tethu is also worth a mention (he is an adorable character)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

it's about time we get characters from different color and ethnicities. Mii doesn't fix this at all.

If we get Inklings, we could get an avatar character that has dark skin. What do you think of that?


Also Miis for life, brah.

We we need Anthony Higgs people, please understand.

I'm trying to think of main Nintendo characters that do have dark skin.

Aside from Inklings and Codename S.T.E.A.M.'s John Henry (and Anthony Higgs).

I can't think of any others.

 

[FunAtParties]

I think adding Robin, Corrin, Wii Fit to the list of strong female characters is kind of a cop out.

I think it'd be really sad that characters were really given extra consideration, just because they are/can be female, honestly. As others said before, they should be great characters on their own first.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I can't think of any others.

Doc Louis too. He invented the Star Punch!

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Doc Louis too. He invented the Star Punch!

Hey! Hippo people are a minority too

Really, many Nintendo series don't even focus on humans, and the ones that do have mostly white people. There's just not many minorities to draw from.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Hey! Hippo people are a minority too

Really, many Nintendo series don't even focus on humans, and the ones that do have mostly white people. There's just not many minorities to draw from.

It seems to me that there has been an increase of diversity in more recent Nintendo games like Codename STEAM and Splatoon.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Maybe about time Nintendo used people of different colors in their main games?

There's no reason why a game like Fire Emblem or even Mario shouldn't have a black character for example. I'd love to see a Fire Emblem game based on the Ethiopian-Itialian war during WW2 for example (Ethiopians rode LIONS I tell you, don't say it wouldn't be amazing.. in a way it could be Fire Emblem x Advance Wars...). But am getting off topic here...

White is still pretty 'default' in gaming, and that's pretty regressive.

To be real honest, it's also a reason I pushed for Impa, especially her Skyward Sword incarnation, so hard. She's one of Nintendo's first "black" or at least non-white main characters in a major Zelda game. It made me like the character more, I'll admit.

Now I also remember Ganondorf excists, but to have the sole ""black"" or non white character in Smash be the greedy, murderious, violent "King of Evil" fits way too many negative stereotypes.

So yeah I think that needs some fixing before forcing in any female characters just because of their gender. The whole gaming industry should actually try to fix this.

Doc Louis, maybe you should actually just join in bro.

 

[Chandeelure]

Females? Villains? Black?

No, we need more spherical characters.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think adding Robin, Corrin, Wii Fit to the list of strong female characters is kind of a cop out.

Well, what do we call them then?

If we can't call them female, we can't call them male for the same reason.

Are they just avatars?

There's no reason why a game like Fire Emblem or even Mario shouldn't have a black character for example. I'd love to see a Fire Emblem game based on the Ethiopian-Itialian war during WW2 for example (Ethiopians rode LIONS I tell you, don't say it wouldn't be amazing.. in a way it could be Fire Emblem x Advance Wars...). But am getting off topic here...

Let's have FE stick to the middle ages.

Lions tho.

excists

HISSSSS

That spelling.

Now I also remember Ganondorf excists, but to have the sole ""black"" or non white character in Smash be the greedy, murderious, violent "King of Evil" fits way too many negative stereotypes.

To be fair, Ganondorf is freaking awesome.

But fair point.


That said, I'm starting to think that Nintendo not having characters with dark skin isn't the problem. Once I got rid of the "main" character criteria, I thought of tons of cool Nintendo characters with darker skin.

The problem isn't that they don't exist, cause there are tons of cool ones that do. It's that there aren't many main ones.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Maybe about time Nintendo used people of different colors in their main games?

No mention of Tethu from Ever Oasis and Elma?

 

[Zerp]

Females? Villains? Black?

No, we need more spherical characters.

Dark Matter confirmed.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Was that an actual thing?

Yes, in GameFaqs of all places.

But definitely not here.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That's right.

Can't believe I forgot about Elma.

I'd love Elma in Smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No mention of Tethu from Ever Oasis and Elma?

I have no idea who they are actually.

Also, what if the next Smash is an actual port... With the engine of Wii U's Smash , extra characters extra modes and that's it.

And we get a second game as well, just like last time. But the game will be a crossover with another popular fighting game series, as Tekken, Street Fighter or even Marvel vs Capcom. Or a combination of all, the game playing as a sort of 2.5D game, sort of mesh up between Smash and Pokken.

Or what if Smash and Pokken get a sort of hybrid game?

Would you guys be open to such changes?

 

[FunAtParties]

Well, what do we call them then?

If we can't call them female, we can't call them male for the same reason.

Are they just avatars?.

I mean yeah that's what they are lol.

I guess I can see it the other way too, but it's definitely not the same as being a character that's solely female. A lot of people don't even associate 2/3 of those characters with their female alts (mainly because they are alts and not the first choice). Same goes for Villager.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

For real though.

Elma is pretty much the perfect solution to our discussions.

• She's female.
• She's black.
• She's a main character.
• She's part of a series that's getting a lot of recent traction (Xenoblade).
• She's well liked.
• She has unique moveset potential with her dual blade/dual gun combo.
• From an extremely notable post Smash Wii U/3DS game. (Xenoblade Chronicles X)

She's kind of an amazing candidate when you think about it.

Only con is that she faces competition in her own series.

So Diddy Kong That is Elma.

Tethu is this cute dude.

 

[Kirbeh]

I'm honestly not a fan of adding characters for the sake of meeting some sort of quota. If a character gets it in, it should be on their merits as a character. I like characters for who they are, not what they are.

That said, if we're on the subject then these are possible contenders that I'd personally like to see:

Tethu - If Ever Oasis does well enough. I hope it does, but it doesn't seem to be getting much attention sadly. The little guy is too cute to ignore imo.

Anthony Higgs - IF and only if they do more with him in the future. The only new Other M character that I liked, but they still didn't do much of anything with him. I like the fact that he's close to Samus, so hopefully they bring him back and flesh him out. So long as it doesn't involve making it an Other M 2...

Doc Louis - I'm still very supportive of Doc Louis, even if it's as a clone/semi-clone of Mac. He's Little Mac's mentor and taught him everything he knows, so I think he could work. What I'd like even more though is for a new Punch-Out!! that follows Doc in his prime on his road to becoming the world champion.

Twintelle - If ARMS does well, I think Spring Man is more or less a given in the future. Once he's accounted for however, she already seems like a popular choice, though I'd still say it's too early to really tell given that these characters were only just recently revealed and the game isn't even out yet. We'll have to see who remains popular after the game has been out for a while.

Plenty more females that are actually plausible as well: Viridi, Medusa, Elma, Daisy, Isabelle, Ashley, insert assorted FE characters (Anna, Azura, Lyn, etc.), Inklings (who count as both of course), Nikki, Krystal, Lip and Ayumi as retro reps, etc, etc. We go over them pretty often.

As I said though, I'm not going to support a character on the basis that they're female or "x" attribute. They need to be good characters like all the ones I listed above (well, those are good imo at least )That just seems silly to me and doesn't do the character in question justice if all they are to you is a check box to mark off for the sake of diversity.

 

[Luminario]

Diddy is simply saying that we should avoid asking for women just because they were women. If he didn't think girls had any place, Impa wouldn't be his number one pick for everything.

Ah gotcha~

I think Smash Wii U fixed most of that honestly. It had more female newcomers than any game before in the series. Even Avatar characters who had both male and female versions of the character got represented... I fail to see why new female characters should be a priority yet again.

I do support Dixie however, and she's one of the few actual popular female lead characters of Nintendo. Also Impa, Lyn, Krystal, Anna, but outside of Impa, there's other characters from the same franchise as the female characters I mentioned that will probably get priority over them. And they're male.

Dixie and K.Rool have about equal chances I feel.
Impa and Midna are pretty much the only Zelda characters you hear about nowadays.
Lyn and Anna are questionable, we might just not get a new FE character.
And Krystal will never make it in before Wolf...

Outside of these I don't think there's many characters within existing Nintendo franchises that have a chance. Could be wrong though.

If you wanna be so socially correct, it's about time we get characters from different color and ethnicities. Mii doesn't fix this at all.

We we need Anthony Higgs people, please understand.

I suppose most complaints about the lack of diversity are to be taken up with Nintendos franchises in general, as they're the ones creating this deficiency which is then being mirrored in Smash. They really gotta take a page out of Overwatch's book when it comes to diversity.
We've also got Isabelle and Ashley as likely enough, with Nikki, Daisy, Lip, and Adeleine as a few unlikely candidates off the top of my head, so not getting any female characters past Inklings isn't really understandable.
Regarding having people of colour in Nintendo games, they really have not done enough for that at ALL and they had so many chances, especially with FE and Mario like you said. They could have kept Daisy's darker skin, made Rosalina black, gave Robin and Corrin various skin tones, gave the ICs darker skin, the list goes on. Anthony would probably work super well, shame the only thing retained from Other M for Smash were the heels.

Could have been worse, like people asking for more LGBT fighters when Nintendo has few notable ones to begin with and Corrin was chosen for more reasons than his own sexuality.

There's a severe lack of anything LGBT too, as the only notable characters I can think of are Corrin and Birdo (Vivian, Niles and Rhajat aren't exactly main characters).

Also, what if the next Smash is an actual port... With the engine of Wii U's Smash , extra characters extra modes and that's it.

And we get a second game as well, just like last time. But the game will be a crossover with another popular fighting game series, as Tekken, Street Fighter or even Marvel vs Capcom. Or a combination of all, the game playing as a sort of 2.5D game, sort of mesh up between Smash and Pokken.

Or what if Smash and Pokken get a sort of hybrid game?

Would you guys be open to such changes?

Smash Switch being a port wouldn't be the that bad at all, since the only thing that usually matters most are the characters so all they gotta do is add more and it's a hit.
Nintendo VS Capcom would be super cool. It would be a good way to see Nintendo characters in a new light as a fighter away from Smash.
I wouldn't say Smash with Pokken's mechanics would work that well, but Pokken with Smash's mechanics would probably be super fun.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They could have kept Daisy's darker skin,

wat?

made Rosalina black,

I'll disagree there. I think Rosalina has to be ghost like in a way, so paler skin makes sense to me.

gave Robin and Corrin various skin tones

Would not mind this at all.

 

[FunAtParties]

Having a slightly darker skin tone =/= black, or else everyone would be calling Ganondorf Smash's only black guy.

 

[Chandeelure]

Dark Matter confirmed.

Spherical, asexual, black and villain?

Top tier newcomer choice.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Having a slightly darker skin tone =/= black, or else everyone would be calling Ganondorf Smash's only black guy.

Okay fair enough.

But there are a lot of black people who have "slightly darker skin."

 

[Curious Villager]

Well, at least Smash has cared a lot about the characters who identify as attack helicopters.

Seriousness though, I agree that characters should be more added for their own merits rather than just filling in some quota.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Anthony Higgs missed his chances by not returning in Federation Forces.

To be completely honest, I would take a Federation Trooper as playable character to. That's one extra for the 'heavy weight quota'.

 

[Luminario]

wat?

Daisy had darker skin than she does now with her old design (you can see it in Peach's Melee Daisy alt)

I'll disagree there. I think Rosalina has to be ghost like in a way, so paler skin makes sense to me.

I dunno, I've seen pretty cool looking fanart with Rosi having dark skin. Your reasoning makes sense though.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Anthony Higgs missed his chances by not returning in Federation Forces.

To be completely honest, I would take a Federation Trooper as playable character to. That's one extra for the 'heavy weight quota'.

Another avatar character too.

You could pick the gender of your trooper.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Having a slightly darker skin tone =/= black, or else everyone would be calling Ganondorf Smash's only black guy.

This has been going on since Melee.

Couple of Melee players even commented about that in videos. Jokingly mostly, but still.

For some reason I'd think Waluigi being black would suit extremely well. Especially cause of his purple color scheme. Rosalina too, as queen of the cosmos this is only natural.

I'd like any Nintendo character with dreads to.

Maybe I should just support Eddy from Tekken or something?

 

[FunAtParties]

Okay fair enough.

But there are a lot of black people who have "slightly darker skin."

Thats true, but we also know their heritage, and other distinguishing traits which is what makes them "black"; I've seen many white people with darker skin as well.

We all know what people are calling for when they ask for black characters, and Elma just isn't it. I do believe Twintelle is meant to be black, but outside of her and Higgs, I can't think of any truly black Nintendo characters. Of course there's Mii alts, the Inkling alts, outside of that I can't think of any.


Diddy Kong I feel like characters like that wouldn't work well as just being switched to being black. I wish they made more characters with this in mind though. ARMS only having 1 black character is kind of ridiculous seeing that black people have had the biggest impact on the sport they're parodying.

I think characters like Mach Rider, if that series ever gets revived would be a great place to start when it comes to making characters black. I mean his face hasn't been revealed yet anyway. Excitebiker too, really anyone with some ambiguity left.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

That's right.

Can't believe I forgot about Elma.

I'd love Elma in Smash.

I'd be cool with Elma in Smash. I wonder how likely she is?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Fire Emblem has a new universe almost eveytime. Instead of medieval Europe, they could go for a African setting next time. Reinvent the classes and weapons much like in fates, in which Hoshiro had a far more traditional Asian setting (coming from Japan, this of course is far more likely).

African warriors are already well known for their 'dark' magic and spear fighting. Now go about you make a main character just like that? Magic dude from 'Egypt', Lion Rider from 'Ethiopia', have Great Knight ride rhinos and elephants. Have Paladins ride zebras or camels. Cavaliers on wildebeasts. Pair up system using animals in general?

Or just include Devdan / Danved. He was SUCH a ****ing bro.

 

[UserKev]

Don't forget Wonder Black from The Wonderful 101. He's from India I heard but still looks close enough.

Also, to be serious, Ganondorf is no where near black, kiddos. Unless you were joking, my bad.

 

[Megadoomer]

I'd be cool with Elma in Smash. I wonder how likely she is?

I guess that depends on when they start development on the next Smash or when Xenoblade 2 comes out. I haven't been following Xenoblade 2 too closely (the art style is off-putting, and I still need to play through Xenoblade and Xenoblade Chronicles X), but it could be a situation like Dixie where Tropical Freeze was seemingly announced/released too late for a character from it to be considered for Smash.

 

[Chandeelure]

Well, at least Smash has cared a lot about the characters who identify as attack helicopters.

Seriousness though, I agree that characters should be more added for their own merits rather than filling in some quota.

You forgot Bayonetta, she is the best attack helicopter because she spins and shoots at the same time just like one.