Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Will]

Ho,ho! Did something interesting come to light recently?

no i think you're just forgetting a good chunk of things

 

[Pakky]

no i think you're just forgetting a good chunk of things

I don't have any stake in anything, and the simplest of updates could prove this wrong any day. However, I just find it odd, that out of 1200 characters with a nice amount of MOTHER representation, both major villains who are linked to together are nowhere to be seen.

Funnier still both villans have... A LOT of forms, like Porky really could be 4 or 5 spirits and a boss but he's not.

 

[Saetanigera]

I enjoy Smash Bros greatly and am one of the top 3 players locally, but I've returned a fighting game for comboing me to death IN THE TUTORIAL. "Git Gud Scrub" is not a professional review.

 

[Will]

I don't have any stake in anything, and the simplest of updates could prove this wrong any day. However, I just find it odd, that out of 1200 characters with a nice amount of MOTHER representation, both major villains who are linked to together are nowhere to be seen.

not when you can believe spirits don't deconfirm characters

 

[Pakky]

not when you can believe spirits don't deconfirm characters

Honestly, until I get some evidence that the ship is starting to sail for me. Not even being rude or dread-filled but what is the argument that says spirits don't deconfirm characters?

I'm to convince myself that this is not the case but things keep me leaning elsewhere.

 

[Zinith]

I'M BACK!!!! AND TIRED AS EVER!!!

I just want to say Merry Christmas since it's still only an hour away from midnight from where I'm at lol.

Anyways, I might get a picture of what I got for Christmas tomorrow when I'm probably more awake.

 

[Will]

Honestly, until I get some evidence that the ship is starting to sail for me. Not even being rude or dread-filled but what is the argument that says spirits don't deconfirm characters?

Just that a Spirit is made doesn't necessarily mean the character in question is forever locked and deconfirmed. Trophies from before have been redone like Lucas and Mewtwo. We have several Spirits that are preexisting characters in different forms or named after weapons, because the Spirits with those names are Fighter Spirits.

When I mean "you're forgetting things" though, I mean upcoming games. Fire Emblem, Yoshi's Crafted World, Daemon X Machina, etc.

 

[RyuhoFox]

Game Journalists get paid to review games. If that's not what a professional is, then none of them deserve to be where they are.

Honestly a lot of them these are kind of showing that they dont deserve to be where they are considering how much contempt they seem to have for gamers. :/

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Had this ever been brought up? Its a few days old but...

 

[perfectchaos83]

Had this ever been brought up? Its a few days old but...

"Dataminers"

****'s fake. Game's been scrubbed enough at this point.

 

[Dee Dude]

Again with the argument on Spirits?

They don’t replace Trophies, they’re directly involved in gameplay affecting the fighters you play as, so unless they outright reprogram an existing Spirit into a Fighter one, I’m firmly on the boat that Spirits deconfirm characters.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

"Dataminers"

****'s fake. Game's been scrubbed enough at this point.

I would be hyped if this was true. Its got Banjo and Sylux would definitely be icing on cake. Sadly chances are it probably isn't...

 

[perfectchaos83]

Again with the argument on Spirits?

They don’t replace Trophies, they’re directly involved in gameplay affecting the fighters you play as, so unless they outright reprogram an existing Spirit into a Fighter one, I’m firmly on the boat that Spirits deconfirm characters.

That's not exactly true. Just add a new spirit for the fighter and rename the old one. It's not hard.

Not sure why people always try to make things seem more difficult than they are.

 

[Will]

They don’t replace Trophies

I'm pretty sure that's half their purpose.

 

[Pakky]

Just that a Spirit is made doesn't necessarily mean the character in question is forever locked and deconfirmed. Trophies from before have been redone like Lucas and Mewtwo. We have several Spirits that are preexisting characters in different forms or named after weapons, because the Spirits with those names are Fighter Spirits.

When I mean "you're forgetting things" though, I mean upcoming games. Fire Emblem, Yoshi's Crafted World, Daemon X Machina, etc.

Here are some things I've thought about

- Do forms of characters/weapons matter?

Well no, its kinda sorta a cop out but Rock Mario isn't Mario, if that makes any sense. However flawed this may sound Rock Mario is Mario under the influence of a power-up but it is not 'purely' Mario.

As oppose saying having a spirit of BWD, like there's no avoiding that that's BWD. There's no wiggle room or anything more to say when it comes to situations like that, its just "Here's in the character the actual character, they are a spirit."

-Are we to put Spirits to the same looking glass as Trophies?

Ehh, see this is hard for me, because of trophies despite taking time to make depending on the character don't do anything. There's no coding involved no event to be made when constructing a trophy. I know most if not all Spirits are just jpegs but A LOT of them have specified events and stats, ect. So on the surface, they seem more involved then, well a resource that you just display on a self sometimes.

One thing I did forget is Sylux so I too would put him on the table to address the point you brought up about new games.

Now, this could be said for Porky if they choose to promote MOTHER 3, though he could just be a collection of spirits.

So really to wrap things up, character absences are weird and I put wavering stock in new games.

 

[Will]

That's not exactly true. Just add a new spirit for the fighter and rename the old one. It's not hard.

Not sure why people always try to make things seem more difficult than they are.

Fighter Spirits are also an incentive to go to the Shop and clear Classic Mode, otherwise there's no clear reward. They're not indicators of who is and who isn't worthy of the Smash invitation.

Here are some things I've thought about

- Do forms of characters/weapons matter?

Well no, its kinda sorta a cop out but Rock Mario isn't Mario, if that makes any sense. However flawed this may sound Rock Mario is Mario under the influence of a power-up but it is not 'purely' Mario.

As oppose saying having a spirit of BWD, like there's no avoiding that that's BWD. There's no wiggle room or anything more to say when it comes to situations like that, its just "Here's in the character the actual character, they are a spirit."

-Are we to put Spirits to the same looking glass as Trophies?

Ehh, see this is hard for me, because of trophies despite taking time to make depending on the character don't do anything. There's no coding involved no event to be made when constructing a trophy. I know most if not all Spirits are just jpegs but A LOT of them have specified events and stats, ect. So on the surface, they seem more involved then, well a resource that you just display on a self sometimes.

One thing I did forget is Sylux so I too would put him on the table to address the point you brought up about new games.

Now, this could be said for Porky if they choose to promote MOTHER 3, though he could just be a collection of spirits.

So really to wrap things up, character absences are weird and I put wavering stock in new games.

You mind adding Magnus and Saki to your list while you're at it?

 

[osby]

They don’t replace Trophies, they’re directly involved in gameplay affecting the fighters you play as, so unless they outright reprogram an existing Spirit into a Fighter one, I’m firmly on the boat that Spirits deconfirm characters.

That doesn't sound hard, tbh.

 

[Pakky]

That's not exactly true. Just add a new spirit for the fighter and rename the old one. It's not hard.

Not sure why people always try to make things seem more difficult than they are.

Now that's a good 'octcom's razor' styled answer.

It puts me in a hard state though, why even make two?

Though Nintendo is kinda goofy when it comes to these types of things so. I don't know.

 

[Will]

Now that's a good 'octcom's razor' styled answer.

Isn't Snake's fighter spirit a new render, actually? I can't remember.

 

[KarneraMythos]

Time to bust out my gray-area opinions. Sorta like how I believe Ultimate is a mix between a port and a sequel – as in not being heavily one or the other, so place those pitchforks down, please – I think Spirits deconfirm characters for the Fighter's Pass. It's possible, but not guaranteed, that certain Spirits may get "upgraded" in future Fighter's Passes. We only know that the DLC characters are not Spirits because the Spirits themselves fill a different role. However, the spirits don't necessarily have to be death sentences for characters, at least not yet.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If these were the DLC characters I'd be pretty satisfied to be honest.

Banjo-Kazooie
Erdrick
Joker (Confirmed)
Lloyd Irving
Piranha Plant (Confirmed)
Sylux

 

[perfectchaos83]

Time to bust out my gray-area opinions. Sorta like how I believe Ultimate is a mix between a port and a sequel – as in not being heavily one or the other, so place those pitchforks down, please – I think Spirits deconfirm characters for the Fighter's Pass. It's possible, but not guaranteed, that certain Spirits may get "upgraded" in future Fighter's Passes. We only know that the DLC characters are not Spirits because the Spirits themselves fill a different role. However, the spirits don't necessarily have to be death sentences for characters, at least not yet.

This, exactly. Though I take a more liberal approach and also include Assists in that pool. We've already got conditionals on assist trophy appearances restricted by stage and if certain assists are already spawned, so removing potential fighter assists is also a possibility.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I miss the Magnus AT

 

[Saetanigera]

Bayonetta's fighter spirit is named Bayonetta (Bayonetta 2). Who says they even need to rename a spirit that's in the game to add a fighter spirit?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The 8.5 input frame delay from the pro controller + laggy online = would rather sound my ****.

I even had fun with Smash For's online, as bad as that game was.

That's saying a lot.

It’s definitely dependent on the internet then, because I hardly ever have substantial issues when I play online, and i’m at about 2.1 mil GSP with about 6 characters.

 

[Zinith]

Apparently I missed a "Poochy War" earlier or something?

 

[Pakky]

Isn't Snake's fighter spirit a new render, actually? I can't remember.

Haha not sure myself

Bayonetta's fighter spirit is named Bayonetta (Bayonetta 2). Who says they even need to rename a spirit that's in the game to add a fighter spirit?

Haha, good point forgot about that.

Weird how the game gives them two different voice tracks in sound mode too.

 

[KarneraMythos]

This, exactly. Though I take a more liberal approach and also include Assists in that pool. We've already got conditionals on assist trophy appearances restricted by stage and if certain assists are already spawned, so removing potential fighter assists is also a possibility.

I agree and disagree at the same time in regards to Assists. At the moment, I can't see any getting upgraded, at least not within a 2-3 year period of Ultimate's post-launch cycle. That being said, assuming this is the final Smash game, I can see Sakurai return to the game (if he isn't already pumping out other DLC content) and take some artistic licenses here and there with the Assist stipulations.

Through a long enough time, I can definitely see some Assists getting those juicy promotions as if they were entering a new game, and my train of thought runs on the idea that the content we get in between now and then should feel as if Ultimate was getting a "Turbo Edition EXE:Late Xrd" style update once enough content accumulates.

 

[DevaAshera]

this ain't T rating anymore though

I like 's being the same though, I am 100% confident that it's the 4Kids guy but actually trying.

You can't tell me that you can't hear a whiff of Spanish accent in that sentence.

Both are named Eric, but that's about it.
Kirby: Right Back At Ya's voice actor for Meta Knight was Eric Stuart.
Super Smash Bros. series' voice actor for Meta Knight is Eric Newsome,

 

[PLATINUM7]

Isn't Snake's fighter spirit a new render, actually? I can't remember.

It's from the Metal Gear Legacy Collection.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I agree and disagree at the same time in regards to Assists. At the moment, I can't see any getting upgraded, at least not within a 2-3 year period of Ultimate's post-launch cycle. That being said, assuming this is the final Smash game, I can see Sakurai return to the game (if he isn't already pumping out other DLC content) and take some artistic licenses here and there with the Assist stipulations.

Through a long enough time, I can definitely see some Assists getting those juicy promotions as if they were entering a new game, and my train of thought runs on the idea that the content we get in between now and then should feel as if Ultimate was getting a "Turbo Edition EXE:Late Xrd" style update once enough content accumulates.

Simply put, in the long term, it makes zero sense to lock any character out as DLC and, if I'm going to be honest (IMO), I see AT promotions happening before Spirit only characters get promoted. I feel the upper echelon of the assist trophy characters have more going for them as potential inclusions than the upper echelon of the Spirit Exclusive characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Bayonetta's fighter spirit is named Bayonetta (Bayonetta 2). Who says they even need to rename a spirit that's in the game to add a fighter spirit?

Bayonetta has two Fighter Spirits. One for her default and one for her Bayonetta 1 alt.

Weird how the game gives them two different voice tracks in sound mode too.

Because in Japanese, the Bayonetta 1 alt uses the English voice while the Bayonetta 2 default uses Japanese voiceclips.

 

[Gentlepanda]

oh goody, three of the spirits in the upcoming mario event are timed exclusives that you can't get outside of very specific hours for those four days

that's not a completionist's nightmare or anything

 

[DutchPichu]

oh goody, three of the spirits in the upcoming mario event are timed exclusives that you can't get outside of very specific hours for those four days

that's not a completionist's nightmare or anything

Where did you find this?

 

[perfectchaos83]

Where did you find this?

It's in the game in the spirits menu. Next event is Mario focused and there's 3 spirits exclusive to it.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Where did you find this?

In the game.

Notification came up not long ago.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I forgot that this was a thing.

SPのバレルおかしくないですか pic.twitter.com/2gSFFuUKfT

— wzkk (@goyoodaagoyouda) December 17, 2018

In general, Diddy’s Rocket Barrels as a offensive tool are massively buffed! All the time you Up B on stage will cause an explosion now. Gives Diddy a much needed unpredictable KO option. Am loving it!

 

[DutchPichu]

It's in the game in the spirits menu. Next event is Mario focused and there's 3 spirits exclusive to it.

Ah, okay. Was looking for news items. Haven’t played Smash today.

 

[Saetanigera]

Simply put, in the long term, it makes zero sense to lock any character out as DLC and, if I'm going to be honest (IMO), I see AT promotions happening before Spirit only characters get promoted. I feel the upper echelon of the assist trophy characters have more going for them as potential inclusions than the upper echelon of the Spirit Exclusive characters.

In a choice between the top spirits and the top assists, I'd go with the spirits, tbh.
Chunli
Wolf Link & Midna
Camilla
Shantae
Mythra
Twintelle
vs
Ashley
Krystal
Shovel Knight
Skull Kid
Spring Man
Waluigi

 

[LetterO]

In a choice between the top spirits and the top assists, I'd go with the spirits, tbh.
Chunli
Wolf Link & Midna
Camilla
Shantae
Mythra
Twintelle
vs
Ashley
Krystal
Shovel Knight
Skull Kid
Spring Man
Waluigi

You forgot Isaac and Shadow when it comes to top assists.