Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Pakky]

No worries, my source said we may or may not be getting a second season

MAY or MAY not??

That means Minecraft confirmed, Notch said that same phrase back in 2012 in a off handed conversation with his accountant!

 

[osby]

MAY or MAY not??

That means Minecraft confirmed, Notch said that same phrase back in 2012 in a off handed conversation with his accountant!

Nah, Minecraft won't get in. They said DLC is for fans and I don't like Minecraft and I'm the only fan that matters.

If Steve gets in, I will complain about it online and that would teach Nintendo ignoring the fans that actually matter aka me.

 

[Curious Villager]

I think the scare comes that Smash will lose it’s “Nintendo feel” if the game has an emphasis on third parties.

The fact of the matter is while the game isn’t about “Nintendo all-stars” anymore, it’s still a Nintendo game and Nintendo will still dominate the scene in that regard.

In my opinion, if we added in a ton of third party characters from main series, like adding in several sonic characters for example, the game would lose it’s star power. Would people like it? Probably. But it will still lose that star power. Third parties are meant to be exciting and to ignite memories.

I think many of us remember Snake’s reveal in brawl. Sonic’s reveal was also amazing in other ways. But a lot of us remember that feeling. And seeing them in always felt magical. It still does. All the third parties do. It’s about a balance though that will strike a chord in the hearts of the players of their memories.

I'm probably going to get crucified for saying this and there is probably a lot of legal mumbo jumbo for this but thinking about it. If Sakurai wants to make Smash more about gaming as a whole rather than keeping it within the scope of Nintendo. Why not make Smash multiplat at that point? I mean, you're adding characters that appeal more to audiences outside of Nintendo, why not give them easier access to the series then?

Its like opening up a vegetarian restaurant in an area where most people prefer to eat vegetarian food and running that for a number of years and then suddenly have a lot of meat food that you want to sell as well. Why not branch out at that point? (Not sure if that's a good analogy but hopefully you get the idea...)

I personally don't mind third parties with little to no history with Nintendo, but I think I would still like for them to not go too overboard with them. At least not yet, ease things in just slowly for now, like they did with Sonic and Snake back in Brawl when third party inclusions first became a thing.

 

[Pakky]

Nah, Minecraft won't get in. They said DLC is for fans and I don't like Minecraft and I'm the only fan that matters.

If Steve gets in, I will complain about it online and that would teach Nintendo ignoring the fans that actually matter aka me.

Its said that people are REALLY like this though.

I mean I'm pretty full right now on characters 4 more is fine who ever those four are.

Holy crap Joker is in though, look at this roster!

 

[FalcoXP]

I dont really like the idea of Steve being in Smash, personally.

But if he gets in, who am i to disagree?

 

[Saetanigera]

Here's a weird question for you guys, what video game characters would you like to see in smash that no one remembers.

For me, it's Slap from the sega cd game Panic!

Spoiler: NSFW

Nina: Dragon Fire (abdorkable angel mage)
Sheena Fujibayashi: Tales of Symphonia (abdorkable ninja summoner)
Kid: Chrono Cross (spunky thief)
Rose: Legend of Dragoon (the original anti-heroine)

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I dont really like the idea of Steve being in Smash, personally.

But if he gets in, who am i to disagree?

Sweet dreams are made of this

 

[osby]

Sweet dreams are made of this

Everybody's looking for something

 

[FalcoXP]

Did you guys update your smash ?

Did the patch 1.2.0 fixed or reduced the input lag?

I downloaded that yesterday, and I felt the controls more responsive (using GC Controller), but I don't know if I was just a personal perception.

 

[The Slayer]

Hmm, that perfectly fits:
Sora
Agumon
Crash
Banjo

Not sure about Agumon or Digimon in general. I guess virtual pet could be consider a video game and they don't lack games either. However, I feel like a Tekken/Soul character would fit in more since they have a thicker background through gaming. But once again, surprise factor could work into Agumon's favor.

Man, that Joker announcement really threw things out the window.

 

[Lollipopped]

Nah, Minecraft won't get in. They said DLC is for fans and I don't like Minecraft and I'm the only fan that matters.

If Steve gets in, I will complain about it online and that would teach Nintendo ignoring the fans that actually matter aka me.

I know this post is satirical, but there's actually so many people who use this line of thinking regarding certain characters. Smash fans can be so selfish at times...

 

[Koopaul]

But what if that guy at the air port was cyborg Abraham Lincoln, how hype would that be?

True. I know these characters are cool. But you neglect the part of my post where I said "instead of an old friend".
That's the point. Why Joker and not Rayman? Why Cloud and not Pheonix Wright?

I know the characters chosen have bigger star power, but those other characters have a stronger bond with Nintendo. It just seems rude to invite someone to a party because they are more popular instead of a good friend who is less popular. And hell, it's not like those characters I mentioned are unpopular anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

Not sure about Agumon or Digimon in general. I guess virtual pet could be consider a video game and they don't lack games either. However, I feel like a Tekken/Soul character would fit in more since they have a thicker background through gaming. But once again, surprise factor could work into Agumon's favor.

Man, that Joker announcement really threw things out the window.

I'm thinking we might get Sans instead of Banjo or a Namco rep...
Oh, come on. He wouldn't be that bad.

 

[osby]

I'm thinking we might get Sans instead of Banjo or a Namco rep...
Oh, come on. He wouldn't be that bad.

I don't think he would be bad at all. Memes aside, Undertale is a great game and while it's heavily inspired by games like Earthbound, it's still pretty popular and influential.

His likeliness, on the other hand...

 

[Deleted member]

His likeliness, on the other hand...

Well... you'd be surprised.

 

[Deleted member]

True. I know these characters are cool. But you neglect the part of my post where I said "instead of an old friend".
That's the point. Why Joker and not Rayman? Why Cloud and not Pheonix Wright?

I know the characters chosen have bigger star power, but those other characters have a stronger bond with Nintendo. It just seems rude to invite someone to a party because they are more popular instead of a good friend who is less popular. And hell, it's not like those characters I mentioned are unpopular anyway.

The main problem with this analogy is that these are fictional beings and not actual people

I'm fairly sure Rayman isn't gonna get upset by Joker getting in Smash whereas an old friend would be very upset if you didn't invite them to a christmas party

 

[osby]

Well... you'd be surprised.

Surprise me

True. I know these characters are cool. But you neglect the part of my post where I said "instead of an old friend".
That's the point. Why Joker and not Rayman? Why Cloud and not Pheonix Wright?

I know the characters chosen have bigger star power, but those other characters have a stronger bond with Nintendo. It just seems rude to invite someone to a party because they are more popular instead of a good friend who is less popular. And hell, it's not like those characters I mentioned are unpopular anyway.

This is a way too emotional approach to the subject.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Well... you'd be surprised.

Why yes, yes we would be surprised if the pacifist side character from a game in it's infancy when the DLC was being planned ended up being the latest addition to a fighting game

 

[osby]

Why yes, yes we would be surprised if the pacifist side character from a game in it's infancy when the DLC was being planned ended up being the latest addition to a fighting game

"Infancy"? What?

 

[Deleted member]

Surprise me

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[FalcoXP]

Seems that im adding Inkling to my fav chars in Smash.

They're fun to use, maining the green one with the skull scarf.

 

[hazza5557]

Thank you so much... I definitely won't do it again! :3

What happened this time?

 

[ColietheGoalie]

"Infancy"? What?

The game came out in late 2015, pretty much around when planning for the next game was about to begin. I just mean I don't think the game had the fandom it has now yet.

 

[Wademan94]

Why yes, yes we would be surprised if the pacifist side character from a game in it's infancy when the DLC was being planned ended up being the latest addition to a fighting game

Just wanna point out that Undertale was released before Persona 5

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Its ok sweetie~ Just glad ya were able to get your account back

Oh? What happened? @GothFluttershy

 

[osby]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

"Sakurai played a game, so he'll add a character from it" isn't a good argument and second pic just proves some translator in Treehouse likes Undertale.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Honestly, Steve and/or Sans should absolutely not be ruled out.

They've got surprise factor, popularity, and unique gimmicks and styles that could test the developers as well as being really divisive and memes like a certain Plant's addition.

I'm gonna go with the mindset of everything having a shot, so that way, if it happens, I won't be fully flabbergasted and brag that I somewhat knew it later on.

 

[osby]

The game came out in late 2015, pretty much around when planning for the next game was about to begin. I just mean I don't think the game had the fandom it has now yet.

Just wanna point out that Undertale was released before Persona 5

As they said. Plus, fandoms can be built pretty quickly nowadays.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Just wanna point out that Undertale was released before Persona 5

As they said. Plus, fandoms can be built pretty quickly nowadays.

Touche

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Touche

Even better. Sometimes Smash is the gateway that leads to characters and their respective franchises building up even stronger fanbases.

 

[Deleted member]

Except your essay really wasn't that well worded and came off more as a rant than anything else. If you so desperately want the attention, here it is:

1. Again, since Namco Bandai owns the IP in America, they would have to be involved in negotiations for Solaire in Smash since it is a WORLDWIDE game, and not just Japanese. Therefore, Solaire is a Namco Representative.
2. Unless your uncle is a Japanese copyright lawyer he has no authority in this situation. Your attempt to appeal to Ethos is weak and feels more like "My uncle works at Nintendo and..."than anything else.
3. Like I said, Namco Bandai would be involved in negotiations for Solaire, and unless you work for Namco Bandai, From Software, or Nintendo you have no idea how those negotiations would go. It could be as easy as you could say, but it's likely a lot more complex and you're oversimplifying it to make a strawman argument.
4. This is easily your worst paragraph as it's nothing more than opinion passed off as fact.
   1. Again, you make a strawman argument against Lloyd by oversimplifying the points for him as "2.5D anime-JRPG protagonist"
   2. The idea of getting all wildcards is kind of supported by Sakurai and Reggie's statements, but you don't cite them, and it's up to interpretation. More than likely Joker was a way of starting strong out of the gate, and we'll get characters of varying popularity and surprise instead of "all wildcards" like you assume
   3. Your rant about other Tales of characters being chosen over Lloyd directly contradicts this Sakurai interview wherein he says this:

This was in 2016 by the way. Tales of Symphonia did amazing things for the series as it was THE title that broke the Tales of series into the West. Tales of Beseria likely wouldn't exist without Symphonia, or would be DRASTICALLY different, given that after it the Tales of team began taking feedback from fans and conducting research about how to appeal to Western fans. The impact of Tales of Symphonia is what makes Lloyd such a strong competitor.

Your entire argument is undermined by the blatant bias shown within it, and is hardly "well worded." Don't accuse me of not supporting my points when your's were never well supported to begin with.

So me pointing out your obvious deflection and incompetence to follow up on your own points means I'm guilty of "desperately wanting the attention"? I'm just trying to have a discussion here buddy. No need to get defensive.

1. Something you don't seem to understand is how owning specific IPs in overseas environments works for the native land. I tried to explain it in my original post, but I'll try harder this time:
Say your name was Bob and you owned an ice cream parlor. You called this Bob's Ice Cream Parlor. Now say you had a gentleman with well-kept black hair, a suit and tie, and glasses come up to you with a very pretty looking business card saying he was the American representative for a Swiss advertising agency named Swiss Relations. You give the gentleman a call and he explains to you how his company takes a 20% cut of all your internal margins in exchange for representing your ice cream parlor. This includes marketing, dealing with lawsuits, potentially working with partners to make your product better. All the good stuff. You accept his offer without any additional conditions, and sign on to a 1-year contract. Bob's Ice Cream Parlor is now owned by Swiss Relations, and they agree to take all of your profits and return 80% of them to you on a certain basis; usually bi-weekly, like a standard paycheck.
Now, say Swiss Relations is a really crap company. They hire dime-an-hour lawyers to help you through a lawsuit and you lose because of it, costing you millions of dollars. They run a few internal advertisements but otherwise, there's no real marketing for your product. They come up with no good ideas and because of that, your business is down 15% on the year, on top of the 20% you're giving them. They're a parasite to your company, and that's terrible because they own you now and you can never get rid of them! Right? Well no, not exactly. After the contract runs out, you can not sign a new one and instead take back your company; there's no contract binding your company to them anymore, so the original clause defining the company is the only one that stands, which in this case would be that Bob's Ice Cream Parlor belongs entirely to Bob. Swiss Relations is no longer involved in your company.

Now, the main thing to take here is by signing a contract where you agree to a specific royalty amount, you're not actually giving them 20%. What you're actually doing is giving them 100%, and they're agreeing to return 80% to you. Even though, legally, the contract states that you're forfeiting the entire company, or in FromSoftware's case, the entire IP in exchange for being returned a net sum on a specifically stated basis, the company really doesn't belong to Swiss Relations (or Bandai Namco) outside of that specific contract. After the contract expires, you can choose whether or not to sign a new one. Clearly, you want to be a good supporter of the company or IP in the specific area, whether it be to a certain market or just based on geography outside of a certain area. Otherwise, they can drop you and never look back.

This is how it is with FromSoftware and Bandai Namco when it comes to Dark Souls outside of Japan. No, I don't work for either company, but to say the general logistics of law don't apply to someone handling a specific IP would be foolish. Sure, Bandai Namco WOULD have some representation in the IP outside of Japan, but not as much as you seem to think. This is something Bandai Namco would still, very likely, agree with just because Dark Souls and FromSoftware is huge for them and something they'd rather not lose if they have the choice. Calling Dark Souls and/or Solaire a "Bandai Namco representative" would be correct in some ways, incorrect in others, and as a whole just VERY misleading.

2. Oh, no. I was just bringing up my uncle to explain where I get my information from. He has nothing to do with this situation at all and I fully apologize if I made it seem like I was trying to give him any authority. You can forget I even mentioned him if you'd like.

3. But, do you know how the legal negotiations would go? You seem to be trying to completely disregard my entire argument just because I wouldn't know how negotiations would go, but you don't seem to know either. The fact here is that I'm simply just trying to use the knowledge of the system that I, personally, know to explain how things could go. Nobody here knows for sure, and trying to emphasize legal jargon in an internet forum discussion about a video game is foolish and I think you trying to say I'm the fallacious one in this situation is laughable.
Just to mention, I've already agreed that Bandai Namco would have to be involved in the negotiations, just not in as wide of a scope as you seem to think. So I'm confused as to why you keep bringing it up.

4. I think it's funny that you open up this point by saying "it's nothing more than opinion passed off as fact" because when have I EVER said anything of mine in my original post should be taken as fact? I'm literally just trying to have a conversation, and how do you converse among facts? You don't, you converse among opinions because they're the only thing that can be refuted! This is an internet forum; take everything anyone says with a grain of salt! Why do I even need to tell you this?
4.1 - If I'm oversimplifying something, explain to me how I am, not just that I am.
4.2 - I personally don't believe that we're gonna get 5 outrageous wildcards; I've been saying for quite some time that the last 1 or 2 reveals will likely be very obvious, but surprising just because we were expecting something bigger. I don't really see why I need to have sources when I'm just making personal predictions? Honestly not sure if you even know what you're arguing for anymore.
4.3 - The Sakurai interview is a great point to make, and just shows how little we really know. "It has to be Lloyd" being supplemented by points of how big Symphonia was for the West can be a huge turning point for why he makes it in IF a Tales rep does, but we can never be too sure until it does happen. But looking at the past, the fact that it took Ridley 2 full games to make it in after all the Western hype around him during the Brawl speculation era, despite an onslaught of Fire Emblem characters that not too many people cared about outside of Japan making it in amidst the Ridley-less timespan, leads me to believe that Sakurai still values what his homeland wants over what his Western fans want.
It's ALL speculation and guessing what could happen based off of what little info we have so far. We can both agree with that, right? That none of us know for sure what will happen, and we can only speculate? Unless you have insider information; that'd be great! Then I wouldn't need to argue since it would be factual information, considering FACTS CAN'T BE ARGUED, ONLY THE OPINIONS SURROUNDING THEM. And that, my friend, is exactly why we're even arguing in the first place.

I almost feel like you didn't even fully read my original post when you call it biased, not well-worded, and not supporting of my own points. I feel like I did a great job not inciting any bias into it, and defined my own points quite well (which, let me remind you that I only "accused" you of not supporting your own points because you literally didn't, you quite literally deflected without actually explaining your points). Why do you think I didn't, just because I disagree with you or is there something more to it? Let's have a conversation, man. No need to get upset over a video game.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh? What happened? @GothFluttershy

What happened this time?

I made an alt account...

 

[ClaTheBae]

So me pointing out your obvious deflection and incompetence to follow up on your own points means I'm guilty of "desperately wanting the attention"? I'm just trying to have a discussion here buddy. No need to get defensive.

1. Something you don't seem to understand is how owning specific IPs in overseas environments works for the native land. I tried to explain it in my original post, but I'll try harder this time:
Say your name was Bob and you owned an ice cream parlor. You called this Bob's Ice Cream Parlor. Now say you had a gentleman with well-kept black hair, a suit and tie, and glasses come up to you with a very pretty looking business card saying he was the American representative for a Swiss advertising agency named Swiss Relations. You give the gentleman a call and he explains to you how his company takes a 20% cut of all your internal margins in exchange for representing your ice cream parlor. This includes marketing, dealing with lawsuits, potentially working with partners to make your product better. All the good stuff. You accept his offer without any additional conditions, and sign on to a 1-year contract. Bob's Ice Cream Parlor is now owned by Swiss Relations, and they agree to take all of your profits and return 80% of them to you on a certain basis; usually bi-weekly, like a standard paycheck.
Now, say Swiss Relations is a really crap company. They hire dime-an-hour lawyers to help you through a lawsuit and you lose because of it, costing you millions of dollars. They run a few internal advertisements but otherwise, there's no real marketing for your product. They come up with no good ideas and because of that, your business is down 15% on the year, on top of the 20% you're giving them. They're a parasite to your company, and that's terrible because they own you now and you can never get rid of them! Right? Well no, not exactly. After the contract runs out, you can not sign a new one and instead take back your company; there's no contract binding your company to them anymore, so the original clause defining the company is the only one that stands, which in this case would be that Bob's Ice Cream Parlor belongs entirely to Bob. Swiss Relations is no longer involved in your company.

Now, the main thing to take here is by signing a contract where you agree to a specific royalty amount, you're not actually giving them 20%. What you're actually doing is giving them 100%, and they're agreeing to return 80% to you. Even though, legally, the contract states that you're forfeiting the entire company, or in FromSoftware's case, the entire IP in exchange for being returned a net sum on a specifically stated basis, the company really doesn't belong to Swiss Relations (or Bandai Namco) outside of that specific contract. After the contract expires, you can choose whether or not to sign a new one. Clearly, you want to be a good supporter of the company or IP in the specific area, whether it be to a certain market or just based on geography outside of a certain area. Otherwise, they can drop you and never look back.

This is how it is with FromSoftware and Bandai Namco when it comes to Dark Souls outside of Japan. No, I don't work for either company, but to say the general logistics of law don't apply to someone handling a specific IP would be foolish. Sure, Bandai Namco WOULD have some representation in the IP outside of Japan, but not as much as you seem to think. This is something Bandai Namco would still, very likely, agree with just because Dark Souls and FromSoftware is huge for them and something they'd rather not lose if they have the choice. Calling Dark Souls and/or Solaire a "Bandai Namco representative" would be correct in some ways, incorrect in others, and as a whole just VERY misleading.

2. Oh, no. I was just bringing up my uncle to explain where I get my information from. He has nothing to do with this situation at all and I fully apologize if I made it seem like I was trying to give him any authority. You can forget I even mentioned him if you'd like.

3. But, do you know how the legal negotiations would go? You seem to be trying to completely disregard my entire argument just because I wouldn't know how negotiations would go, but you don't seem to know either. The fact here is that I'm simply just trying to use the knowledge of the system that I, personally, know to explain how things could go. Nobody here knows for sure, and trying to emphasize legal jargon in an internet forum discussion about a video game is foolish and I think you trying to say I'm the fallacious one in this situation is laughable.
Just to mention, I've already agreed that Bandai Namco would have to be involved in the negotiations, just not in as wide of a scope as you seem to think. So I'm confused as to why you keep bringing it up.

4. I think it's funny that you open up this point by saying "it's nothing more than opinion passed off as fact" because when have I EVER said anything of mine in my original post should be taken as fact? I'm literally just trying to have a conversation, and how do you converse among facts? You don't, you converse among opinions because they're the only thing that can be refuted! This is an internet forum; take everything anyone says with a grain of salt! Why do I even need to tell you this?
4.1 - If I'm oversimplifying something, explain to me how I am, not just that I am.
4.2 - I personally don't believe that we're gonna get 5 outrageous wildcards; I've been saying for quite some time that the last 1 or 2 reveals will likely be very obvious, but surprising just because we were expecting something bigger. I don't really see why I need to have sources when I'm just making personal predictions? Honestly not sure if you even know what you're arguing for anymore.
4.3 - The Sakurai interview is a great point to make, and just shows how little we really know. "It has to be Lloyd" being supplemented by points of how big Symphonia was for the West can be a huge turning point for why he makes it in IF a Tales rep does, but we can never be too sure until it does happen. But looking at the past, the fact that it took Ridley 2 full games to make it in after all the Western hype around him during the Brawl speculation era, despite an onslaught of Fire Emblem characters that not too many people cared about outside of Japan making it in amidst the Ridley-less timespan, leads me to believe that Sakurai still values what his homeland wants over what his Western fans want.
It's ALL speculation and guessing what could happen based off of what little info we have so far. We can both agree with that, right? That none of us know for sure what will happen, and we can only speculate? Unless you have insider information; that'd be great! Then I wouldn't need to argue since it would be factual information, considering FACTS CAN'T BE ARGUED, ONLY THE OPINIONS SURROUNDING THEM. And that, my friend, is exactly why we're even arguing in the first place.

I almost feel like you didn't even fully read my original post when you call it biased, not well-worded, and not supporting of my own points. I feel like I did a great job not inciting any bias into it, and defined my own points quite well (which, let me remind you that I only "accused" you of not supporting your own points because you literally didn't, you quite literally deflected without actually explaining your points). Why do you think I didn't, just because I disagree with you or is there something more to it? Let's have a conversation, man. No need to get upset over a video game.

my man writing a damn bible out here

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Sakurai definitely is a man who can work magic but keep in mind that he tends to stay true to the source material when he puts characters in. That’s why I too have my doubts on MK characters being in Smash because MK is a brutal game and always has been and it would be weird to put in Scorpion/Sub-Zero without the blood and gore.

I mean, I couldn't see Bayonetta without being violent as well, she literally has Torture Attacks in her games. Violent characters are allowed in Smash Bros, Bayonetta and Joker have shown that.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I sometimes think about things so deeply and ask for other's opinions, and then all I got was: "It's not that deep lol"

Those two who are in a little argument right now? At least appreciate that you get such detailed responses. That's something you can both appreciate about the other, right?

We have fun here.

 

[FalcoXP]

Sakurai definitely is a man who can work magic but keep in mind that he tends to stay true to the source material when he puts characters in. That’s why I too have my doubts on MK characters being in Smash because MK is a brutal game and always has been and it would be weird to put in Scorpion/Sub-Zero without the blood and gore.

Well Snake and Bayonetta both come from M Rated games and here we are

 

[Deleted member]

Now that Dyllybirdy has it too, it seems like I'm the only one that doesn't have Smash Ultimate yet!

 

[FalcoXP]

I sometimes think about things so deeply and ask for other's opinions, and then all I got was: "It's not that deep lol"

Those two who are in a little argument right now? At least appreciate that you get such detailed responses. That's something you can both appreciate about the other, right?

We have fun here.

Well, personally I really like to give detailed responses, but Im not a native english speaker, so... some ideas are easier for me to explain in my language but I have a hard time translating it to english at times lol.

Gotta try hard I guess.

 

[Wademan94]

Now that Dyllybirdy has it too, it seems like I'm the only one that doesn't have Smash Ultimate yet!

Nope, you’re not alone.

 

[FalcoXP]

Now that Dyllybirdy has it too, it seems like I'm the only one that doesn't have Smash Ultimate yet!

Amazon delayed your order?

The game is nuts, hope you get it soon.