Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[T-Hell]

This post made me cringe

Why are you applying such a negative characteristic to the word "gimmick"? Why is it bad to have characters that actually stand out and have unique traits?

What's so CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZY about that? Like why would you actually come out and say "I don't want interesting characters. I want basic move sets."

For the same reason you'd rather have yet another freaking monkey than a heavyweight pirate king crocodile.. Come on dude, you dismissed K.Rool's cannoball suggestion as an interesting move and yet you want a bazooka for Funky Kong.
I'm not telling you what you should or should not like but your argument against K.Rool's potential as an interesting character is pretty poor if you ask me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm just gonna say that it's hard to take you seriously when you're also the same person who argues that Pichu should come back from Melee.

What's the problem with that? It's a valid opinion. I'd love Pichu back. I love his gimmick. He's fun to play as and honestly the only thing that was really bad was his Target Test. He's nowhere good competitive-wise, but that's not surprising whatsoever with a "damage yourself" gimmick. He clearly made to not be a good character. But that's okay.

That said, it's better to reply to their argument instead of taking a jab at a post that's unrelated. His preference for Pichu coming back has nothing to do with why he's cringing. Some people don't like the work gimmick, and considering it is often used in a negative tone, I can understand why. I don't really consider it a problem myself, but to each their own.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Is this move set unique enough for you? https://zombiesaurian.deviantart.com/art/A-K-Rool-Moveset-Updated-8-24-15-542724062

No. I think whoever made this is trying way to hard and yet not hard enough. Sorry if my standards are "too high", but nothing in this move set makes for a remotely memorable fighter.

There's more to making a fighter than just filling in a list of inputs. I wanna see something that no other fighter has. I mentioned the examples earlier of what I'm talking about when I say that.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I'll probably ask this in the Ridley thread as well, but I'll also ask it here; how optimistic or pessimistic are some of you for Ridley's chances this time around?

Extremely pessimistic, for past games I was always very optimistic as I wanted to believe that Ridley might just not have been a big priority before that, but Brawl was the last game where you could seriously argue that, and with Sakurai coming out and just shutting down the idea completely I lost pretty much all hope of it happening. With Ridley having been requested so heavily for so long I'm pretty sure it's also a stance Sakurai has held for many many years now, it's not like with Villager or Pac-Man where on a second thought he could actually envision it, Ridley must have been considered and rejected at least twice.

I think I gave him a 1% on the Rate Your Chances thread, although that might have been a bit too skeptical, I think with such consistent and overwhelming popularity somewhere around 5-10% would be more correct.

This post made me cringe

Why are you applying such a negative characteristic to the word "gimmick"? Why is it bad to have characters that actually stand out and have unique traits?

What's so CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZY about that? Like why would you actually come out and say "I don't want interesting characters. I want basic move sets."

Characters don't need gimmicks to be interesting, you can make a fairly basic moveset very interesting by just making it synergize well with itself. I'm not saying that it's bad to have gimmick characters, I'm just saying that they largely don't appeal to me, I like characters that I can just sit down and instantly click with, the ones where you can just feel your way to how they're supposed to play . Also, I'd suggest you stop posting in such an aggressive tone, there's really no way my entirely subjective post should be able to incite any kind of offended reaction.

 

[Cosmic77]

What's the problem with that? It's a valid opinion. I'd love Pichu back. I love his gimmick. He's fun to play as and honestly the only thing that was really bad was his Target Test. He's nowhere good competitive-wise, but that's not surprising whatsoever with a "damage yourself" gimmick. He clearly made to not be a good character. But that's okay.

That said, it's better to reply to their argument instead of taking a jab at a post that's unrelated. His preference for Pichu coming back has nothing to do with why he's cringing. Some people don't like the work gimmick, and considering it is often used in a negative tone, I can understand why. I don't really consider it a problem myself, but to each their own.

There's nothing wrong with bringing back Pichu, but I don't think it's fair for him to criticize a speculatory moveset and say that it "sucks" if one of the characters he really wants back is a clone.

Perhaps I misinterpreted what he meant, but from my perspective, it just seems like his point is hypocritical.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Please tell me you're not actually proposing that is even slightly relevant. It's 100% a joke by Rare from over a decade ago. Like Wario stealing Koopa's kart in Mario Kart 64 and painting it purple.

The latter is true, though.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There's nothing wrong with bringing back Pichu, but I don't think it's fair for him to criticize a moveset someone else created for being too boring if one of the characters he really wants back is a clone.

Perhaps I misinterpreted what he meant, but from my perspective, it just seems like his point is hypocritical.

Okay, I see where you're coming from now.

Still, I think the idea that clones are an exception to the point being made is another thing.

Anyway, I don't want every character to be super unique either. I like moveset that flow well more than a gimmick in itself. And sometimes the gimmick can be a basic concept, like with Zelda and Sheik. Their movesets needed fixing here and there(moreso for Zelda) even when they had the transform ability. That was the issue, not the gimmick alone(which did not help, but it in itself doesn't justify why Zelda has terrible range, etc. When split, she didn't get any better, which shows the issue is more with her current moveset sucking).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

What the heck is a "trap character"?

A trap character would be a character that uses stationary objects as well as slow-moving and fast-moving projectiles to control the opponent's movement. An example of this would be Rocket Raccoon in the MvC series.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

For the same reason you'd rather have yet another freaking monkey than a heavyweight pirate king crocodile.

This post made me cringe even harder. "Another freaking monkey". I'm sorry, but the way you worded that post really sounding like something a child would write. Imagining Sakurai saying something like that makes me burst with laughter.

Sakurai just looks at Funky Kong and goes "No! No more freaking monkeys!!!" It's almost like Donkey Kong Country's universe mostly consists of monkeys.

Come on dude, you dismissed K.Rool's cannoball suggestion as an interesting move and yet you want a bazooka for Funky Kong.

Actually I said that Funky Kong is interesting because he would have a surfboard. The bazooka in combination for that makes for an actually interesting fighter.

It's a pretty pathetic argument. "AH HA! You said he had a bazooka, but King K. Rool has a gun! CHECKMATE"

I never said King K. Rool wouldn't work because guns aren't interesting. That's something you devised from your poor understanding.

As a matter of fact. I never said King K. Rool couldn't work. You're just shoving words in my mouth.

I'm not telling you what you should or should not like but your argument against K.Rool's potential as an interesting character is pretty poor if you ask me.

Maybe you should actually read into what my arguments are. Because you've shown no evidence that you have an even slight comprehending of what the meat of it was. All you seemed to have gotten out of what I said is "Gun bad. King K. Rool stupid. Monkey better than crocodile because monkey have bazooka. More monkeys! MORE MONKEYS!"

This whole post comes off as you raging because you're mad that somebody has doubts about a character you're obsessed with.

 

[Cosmic77]

Anyway, I don't want every character to be super unique either. I like moveset that flow well more than a gimmick in itself. And sometimes the gimmick can be a basic concept, like with Zelda and Sheik. Their movesets needed fixing here and there(moreso for Zelda) even when they had the transform ability. That was the issue, not the gimmick alone(which did not help, but it in itself doesn't justify why Zelda has terrible range, etc. When split, she didn't get any better, which shows the issue is more with her current moveset sucking).

Even though I'm against the idea of older Smash characters getting complete overhauls, Zelda really does need something to make her more viable. The addition of Phantom Slash didn't help in the least.

Not sure what her new move could be though. She didn't do too much in BotW that could work as a new down-special. Unless you count her Sealing power, but that seems more like Final Smash material if you ask me.

 

[T-Hell]

This post made me cringe even harder. "Another freaking monkey". I'm sorry, but the way you worded that post really sounding like something a child would write. Imagining Sakurai saying something like that makes me burst with laughter.

Sakurai just looks at Funky Kong and goes "No! No more freaking monkeys!!!"


Actually I said that Funky Kong is interesting because he would have a surfboard. The bazooka in combination for that makes for an actually interesting fighter.

I never said King K. Rool wouldn't work because guns aren't interesting. That's something you devised from your poor understanding.


Maybe you should actually read into what my arguments are. Because you've shown no evidence that you have an even slight comprehending of what the meat of it was. All you seemed to have gotten out of what I said is "Gun bad. King K. Rool stupid. Monkey better than crocodile because monkey have bazooka. More monkeys! MORE MONKEYS!"

It's almost like Donkey Kong Country's universe is populated by monkeys.

-Nope, it's just kinda funny to me that you want characters to be more unique or with gimnicks but you want another ape, why not more variety?

-As a matter of fact it was you who actually misunderstood me by thinking my post was all about a gun.

-And I am the childish here? Dude, I've read posts of you and I don't recall you being this hostile. Did you have a bad day?
Anyways if you're keeping that tone I'm just done with this because I don't like unfriendly discussions.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Finally, the heated debates about K. Rool and Ridley are going, and simultaneously at that

I think both are possible. I do find K. Rool more possible than Ridley, and the notion that he wouldn't play in a unique way is baseless. Thinking he couldn't be unique seems more like "I can't see him as unique bc I don't like him". For starters, Sakurai could make most characters unique. The guy created Duck Hunt as a playable character, so stop doubting that a character can be unique. Second, K. Rool has so much to work with across all his appearances. He doesn't need a gimmick, though I'm sure he could have one. I'd be really happy if he was just a really heavy zoner, as would all of his fans. Just keep him true to his character. If you don't like him, that's fine, nobody said you have to like every character in the game.

Ridley is a character that I really can't sink much effort into. I really want him, but I'm just going to believe Sakurai hasn't changed his stance. I love Metroid and would be excited if he became playable. I mained him on the Legacy XP PM mod. He was extra fun. But I just don't fully believe he'll be playable in a Sakurai game.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

-Nope, it's just kinda funny to me that you want characters to be more unique or with gimmicks but you want another ape, why not more variety?

It's like talking to a brick wall. That's like saying Rosalina's not unique because she's another princess.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

No. I think whoever made this is trying way to hard and yet not hard enough. Sorry if my standards are "too high", but nothing in this move set makes for a remotely memorable fighter.

There's more to making a fighter than just filling in a list of inputs. I wanna see something that no other fighter has. I mentioned the examples earlier of what I'm talking about when I say that.

Having a surfboard and bazooka makes an interesting character, but having a blunderbuss that shoots canonballs, spiked balls that can be left on the ground as a trap, poison clouds and can be used to propel the user forward along with being able to set electrical traps around the stage, having a propeller pack, summoning clap traps, having boxing moves and being an agile heavyweight isn't?

Do you want to tell me what made Greninja so unique? Because we've already gotten a ninja themed moveset in Sheik and a water themed moveset in Squrtile, and I don't see why combining the two themes into one character makes them unique.

 

[Chron]

Even though I'm against the idea of older Smash characters getting complete overhauls, Zelda really does need something to make her more viable. The addition of Phantom Slash didn't help in the least.

Not sure what her new move could be though. She didn't do too much in BotW that could work as a new down-special. Unless you count her Sealing power, but that seems more like Final Smash material if you ask me.

New Zelda Down Special: Summons BotW Link to follow/protect her until she realizes he's there and yells at him and he leaves.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Do characters like Greninja and Bowser Jr. not stand out?

I actually said that they did. Greninja is a water ninja and the only character who centers around the use of water. Bowser Jr rides a vehicle. They have interesting traits that make them stand out unlike, in my opinion, King K. Rool. Why are you asking me if they stand out when I already said that they did?

Having a surfboard and bazooka makes an interesting character, but having a blunderbuss that shoots canonballs, spiked balls that can be left on the ground as a trap, poison clouds and can be used to propel the user forward along with being able to set electrical traps around the stage, having a propeller pack, summoning clap traps, having boxing moves and being an agile heavyweight isn't?

I don't see what's so special about boxing gloves and a helicopter pack. It sounds like King K. Rool's entire potential revolves around his gun. Which isn't a bad idea.


Do you want to tell me what made Greninja so unique? Because we've already gotten a ninja themed moveset in Sheik and a water themed moveset in Squrtile, and I don't see why combining the two themes into one character makes them unique.[/QUOTE]
I mean that's just stupid. Squirtle isn't in Super Smash Bros 4 and none of Greninja's moves even resemble Sheik's because Sheik doesn't have the power of water.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

New Zelda Down Special: Summons BotW Link to follow/protect her until she realizes he's there and yells at him and he leaves.

Zelda's new down special: Stop Following Me!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Do you want to tell me what made Greninja so unique? Because we've already gotten a ninja themed moveset in Sheik and a water themed moveset in Squrtile, and I don't see why combining the two themes into one character makes them unique.

• He had the first chargeable Neutral B projectile that travels slower the more it is charged
• His down air allowed him to bounce off an opponent on hit

That's pretty much the extend to the truly new things he brought to the table, mechanically speaking. Outside of that, he is just a non-clone that has a distinct enough gameplay.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

While I have my doubts on whether K.Rool would be playable or not (I think a DKCR3 with K.Rool returning would massively boost his chances), I do think he could be a worthwhile addition. An idea that just came to my mind was based on the fact that he changes his theme in every game he played the villain.

If we apply that to a moveset in Smash, what about a costume change moveset? Not a stance change, but a costume set. His down B could swap between King, Kaptain, and Baron costumes. Each would add a different effect to his moveset, such as fire or electricity. Kinda sounds to me like a heavyweight version of Shulk minus the stat changes. It would just alter his effects, but could change knockback and hitstun I suppose.

At least that seems more interesting or true to character than him just being a kitchen sink character.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

• He had the first chargeable Neutral B projectile that travels slower the more it is charged
• His down air allowed him to bounce off an opponent on hit

That's pretty much the extend to the truly new things he brought to the table, mechanically speaking. Outside of that, he is just a non-clone that has a distinct enough gameplay.

I mean if you look at it from a pessimistic fanboy perspective sure. Reminds me of the guy who called Rosalina "Space Peach".

 

[Cosmic77]

New Zelda Down Special: Summons BotW Link to follow/protect her until she realizes he's there and yells at him and he leaves.

Zelda's new down special: Stop Following Me!View attachment 140037

Her new down-special could also be...

Actually, this particular scene gets brought up so many times as is. I'm just going to say three words and see if people know where I'm going with this.


- Down-special
- Frog
- Pants

 

[Chron]

If we apply that to a moveset in Smash, what about a costume change moveset? Not a stance change, but a costume set. His down B could swap between King, Kaptain, and Baron costumes. Each would add a different effect to his moveset, such as fire or electricity. Kinda sounds to me like a heavyweight version of Shulk minus the stat changes. It would just alter his effects, but could change knockback and hitstun I suppose.

At least that seems more interesting or true to character than him just being a kitchen sink character.

Like how Samus can change her weapon by taunting in PM.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Her new down-special could also be...

Actually, this particular scene gets brought up so many times as is. I'm just going to say three words and see if people know where I'm going with this.


- Down-special
- Frog
- Pants

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Anyways, you know who else would make a great trap character utilizing stationary setups and projectiles, and also has a ton of (literal) tools that can be used in other interesting and unique ways, and has had a ton of games, mostly on Nintendo consoles?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I mean if you look at it from a pessimistic fanboy perspective sure.

I'm looking at it from a gameplay perspective, not an aesthetic perspective, and when you compare to characters like and, he doesn't really bring in any super-revolutionary "gimmicks" to the Smash Bros franchise. You're also making a false comparison by implying I actually dislike Greninja by stating he isn't that super-unique despite the fact I actually enjoy playing as him.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I actually said that they did. Greninja is a water ninja and the only character who centers around the use of water. Bowser Jr rides a vehicle. They have interesting traits that make them stand out unlike, in my opinion, King K. Rool. Why are you asking me if they stand out when I already said that they did?


I don't see what's so special about boxing gloves and a helicopter pack. It sounds like King K. Rool's entire potential revolves around his gun. Which isn't a bad idea.


Do you want to tell me what made Greninja so unique? Because we've already gotten a ninja themed moveset in Sheik and a water themed moveset in Squrtile, and I don't see why combining the two themes into one character makes them unique.

I mean that's just stupid. Squirtle isn't in Super Smash Bros 4 and none of Greninja's moves even resemble Sheik's because Sheik doesn't have the power of water.

Ok, what makes Greninja so much more unique than K. Rool? Having water swords for his Smash attacks? I still think you could make K. Rool an interesting trap character.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Her new down-special could also be...

Actually, this particular scene gets brought up so many times as is. I'm just going to say three words and see if people know where I'm going with this.


- Down-special
- Frog
- Pants

Oh... Oh yeah. I got it. This perfect scene, this wondefurl... View.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

One other thing...Zelda fans may get what they want in newcomers, but not the way they expect it.

While the only thing we know about Link is that he’s going to have a different visual design, we have no idea how that might affect the way he plays. I also believe that we may see a Breath of the Wild inspired Princess Zelda as well.

Depending on how much is changed, the work involved could very well match that of a brand new character. More or less, a Zelda rework similar to that of the rework of Bowser we got in Wii U/3DS would effectively be on par with getting a brand new character.

Just something to consider there. Just because they’re already in Smash doesn’t mean they wouldn’t count as a newcomer after receiving an entire rework. It may be the same character, the work and time involved is something completely different.

 

[Louie G.]

I think K. Rool's chances are decent at best. He was obviously a popular choice in the Ballot, they went out of their way to design a Mii costume for him despite his lack of recent appearances (and based off of his SNES appearances, at that). While I think Dixie Kong's chances are a good deal higher, K. Rool is a character whose popularity can't be ignored and depending on how heavily the Ballot will be weighed for character picks (the implication was that it would at least have some bearing on the roster) K. Rool could have a legitimate shot. I'm not holding my breath but I would love to see it.

Ridley's fate lies solely in whether Sakurai changes his mind or not. He's done it before with Villager, if he can think up a way to incorporate Ridley and stay true to his character then we could very well see him this time around. By default I'm pessimistic, I don't expect Ridley because as it currently stands all we have to work off of is Sakurai saying "I don't think I could pull it off". Simply based on what we do know, I would say his chances are very slim. Would make for an amazing surprise, though.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I think what Zelda needs isn't her strengths enhanced but at least one of her many crippling downsides pulled back. To wit

• Very Tall
• Very light
• Very slow
• awkward animations
• heavy reliance on sweetspots
• sourspots aren't even good for combos
• Fixed trajectory recovery
• Sole projectile puts her into helplessness because she wasn't helpless enough

Compare to Peach who

• Is Shorter & heavier (I'll attribute it to the petticoats)
• Has Multiple recovery options
• Has Sweet spots on few attacks
• Who's Sourspots aren't terrible
• Runs faster

Any I missed?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I actually said that they did. Greninja is a water ninja and the only character who centers around the use of water. Bowser Jr rides a vehicle. They have interesting traits that make them stand out unlike, in my opinion, King K. Rool. Why are you asking me if they stand out when I already said that they did?

Perhaps you said this just recently today and I overlooked it, in which case pardon me for that, but if not, then I just have to say that I don't read every single post in this thread because I'm not constantly here to keep up with every last page. I couldn't be aware of your thoughts on them if I simply never saw a post of yours in question that referred to them.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I think what Zelda needs isn't her strengths enhanced but at least one of her many crippling downsides pulled back. To wit

• Very Tall
• Very light
• Very slow
• awkward animations
• heavy reliance on sweetspots
• sourspots aren't even good for combos
• Fixed trajectory recovery
• Sole projectile puts her into helplessness because she wasn't helpless enough

Compare to Peach who

• Is Shorter & heavier (I'll attribute it to the petticoats)
• Has Multiple recovery options
• Has Sweet spots on few attacks
• Who's Sourspots aren't terrible
• Runs faster

Any I missed?

It'd be great if they would make her sweetspots bigger, tone down her knockback, and make sourspots slightly more useful. She has a ridiculous amount of kill power but absolutely no consistency. Just make her more consistent, and adjust some of her laggier options, and she's a decent character. I'd like to see some moves changed too, but I'll be happy with just a more balanced character.

 

[RandomAce]

Well this started to escalate quickly while I was gone.

I’m not against King K. Rool, but a lot of the move sets people make for him are just a recollection of a bunch of things he did shoved in as one character, which made him just feel bland to me. When making a move set you need to come up with an encompassing theme that is true to character and start from there.

For Example:

While I have my doubts on whether K.Rool would be playable or not (I think a DKCR3 with K.Rool returning would massively boost his chances), I do think he could be a worthwhile addition. An idea that just came to my mind was based on the fact that he changes his theme in every game he played the villain.

If we apply that to a moveset in Smash, what about a costume change moveset? Not a stance change, but a costume set. His down B could swap between King, Kaptain, and Baron costumes. Each would add a different effect to his moveset, such as fire or electricity. Kinda sounds to me like a heavyweight version of Shulk minus the stat changes. It would just alter his effects, but could change knockback and hitstun I suppose.

At least that seems more interesting or true to character than him just being a kitchen sink character.

What I really liked about this was that it gave King K. Rool an interesting ability that is true to character that makes for an interesting move set. There are some characters that work fine without any gimmicks like Greninja because they have an interesting base move set, however some characters can also benefit from unique abilities to help them stand out.

If King K. Rool did really well in the ballot, which shows, I hope Sakurai or however is working on him creates an interesting move set.

I think what Zelda needs isn't her strengths enhanced but at least one of her many crippling downsides pulled back. To wit

• Very Tall
• Very light
• Very slow
• awkward animations
• heavy reliance on sweetspots
• sourspots aren't even good for combos
• Fixed trajectory recovery
• Sole projectile puts her into helplessness because she wasn't helpless enough

Compare to Peach who

• Is Shorter & heavier (I'll attribute it to the petticoats)
• Has Multiple recovery options
• Has Sweet spots on few attacks
• Who's Sourspots aren't terrible
• Runs faster

Any I missed?

Peach also has moves and her floating ability which allows her to create combos.

I just hope that they balance her more and make her animations less awkward. The series has proven time and time again that Zelda is a strong character in BOTW and in prior games, but she is potrayed as a helpless princess in Smash.

 

[Gearkeeper-8a]

K. Rool makes more sense as a actual stance character that a "trap" character, having 2 o 3 moves that can use for set up trap doesnt make you one, in fact i think that one of the problems veterans have is that their movesets arent as focused as the newcomers especially the DLC, example jigglypuff, zelda, pre smash 4 bowser

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Frankly, the problem is that Zelda’s current moveset simply doesn’t work. It’s great that some of her attacks are strong, but if you can’t ever effectively hit the sweet spots, who cares? There’s also very little in the moveset to allow for combos or setups into the smashes or strong attacks. Basically, nothing meshes well.

I wonder if she hasn’t changed until now because that aspect of her moveset was made to separate her as much as possible from Sheik, the faster, more physical side of Zelda.

Again, I think the best course of action is to start over and match designs with Link. Make her Breath of the Wild Zelda, make her faster, more physical with kicks involved, and make the Champion abilities her special attacks. She can keep the jab of the magic burst. She could replace her tilts with faster kicks or something to that effect.

As far as her archetype...hm. I’m not sure as of yet. If she keeps strong magic as smashes, she needs some sort of move to bait and then trap someone to follow up on. For example, Wii Fit Trainer has her 3-hit A combo that, if it hits properly, plants the opponent in the ground.

At the very least if Zelda is made to bait opponents into a combo, resulting in a stronger Smash, that might work.

 

[Deleted member]

Well as for the rumor hard proof I still required I need to see it to believe

Now I got another rumor not smash related but...

https://gonintendo.com/stories/3058...uses-donkey-kong-country-speculation-with-a-s

A new DK game man got be made for the switch and supposivly rare is working on it

So if the kermlings are in that game you know a particular characters chances could potential shoot the moon

This is worth keeping in mind. The flyer was taken down by Nintendo Switch Italia on Instagram and you cannot find it there. When they tried to explain the situation, it came off as damage control likely one of the interns teased that they're making a new DK game. While not quite a confirmation, it's a hint that we'll be getting a new DK game, likely to be announced soon.

It probably won't matter for the base roster (unless Retro contacted Sakurai about it), but it will play a role as potential DLC content. Since I'm confident the Kremlings are returning for the next DK game, if K. Rool fails to show up in the base game, my bet is that he'll be DLC sometimes next year.

I actually feel a little bad for Sakurai when it comes to choosing a DK newcomer.


It hurts to say this, but Dixie, Funky, and even Cranky make way more sense at this point than K. Rool would. Not only has the big dude mysteriously vanished for over a decade, but the other three Kongs have all been playable in the newest DKC game (and in Dixie's case, she's been playable in two older classic DKC games AND was actually considered for Brawl).

I adore K. Rool, but just like how I feel with Ridley and Metroid, I'd rather get someone besides K. Rool as a newcomer than to get nothing at all. Unfortunately, I don't think everyone else shares that sentiment. Fans have been pretty vocal, and I'm afraid that Sakurai might be too hesitant to consider adding another DK character if the character isn't K. Rool.

In other words, the massive demand for K. Rool may have caused an all-or-nothing situation where if we don't get him, we don't get anyone.

I would not put the blame on the fans if we don't get a third DK character, that goes solely on Sakurai. Frankly, Sakurai probably believes it's better to add no one than to add someone he considers to be mediocre for sake of representation.

The "Dixie was considered for Brawl" argument isn't nearly as strong as people think because she planned in the context of being Diddy's duo and then didn't get added on her own then or the next game. She's probably under the same boat as Ridley in that Sakurai doesn't visualize her working on as a character much like how he doesn't see Ridley working out for Smash. If Tropical Freeze wasn't enough for her to get in, a port (which would be coming out far after this game's roster would be decided upon) that does nothing extra for her won't change anything. She won't be getting in independently of K. Rool and that means getting in as the fourth character likely under a different director who may find her interesting. I also don't see Sakurai considering Cranky or Funky Kong. A lot of people have this assumption at least subconsciously that Sakurai will cave in and add a "Third Dee-Kay Rep" just to make people shut up and "muh recency," as if we're supposed to believe that more game appearances will suddenly convince Sakurai to add Ridley. Recency serves no effect other than for Sakurai to decide "who isn't getting in?"

DK in general hasn't exactly been treated favorably by Sakurai last game; only one new stages while Kid Icarus gets two, no newcomers, seven remixes of Jungle Hijinx in a franchise blessed with beautiful music (and even mislabled one Tropical Freeze soundtrack in Smash as something else), and no ATs. If a huge revival of one of gaming's seminal franchise results in such tepid output for such a big crossover, what does that say about who he thinks could be added from it? That's he's probably not going to add one of the Kongs on his own.

I'd like to remind people that it took fan demand to get Diddy Kong in during a downtime in the DK series and because of that, it's going to take the fans taking matter into their own hands to convince Sakurai that there are still characters worth adding, not "reps". That's why DK fans, because almost all of K. Rool fans have played and fell in love with the DK series, banded together and fought for K. Rool's inclusion during the Ballot. Not only do we want K. Rool in Smash and to return to the DK franchise like he deserves to, we want to see better representation of Donkey Kong in all areas; characters, stages, items, ATs, music, etc. K. Rool, with him being the most unique newcomer DK has to offer now, might be the one to open the door for DK contents to flow in but maybe also for Sakurai to consider western third-parties.

The fans speaking up for K. Rool are not going to keep us from getting a newcomer, it might be what gets us one.

 

[Gearkeeper-8a]

you can thank retro for that, they dont want to use k. Rool for whatever reason, he hasn't appeared in a Donkey kong game in like 10 years, hell more people know about funky and cranky that the "main" antagonist, relevancy in their own series is important not essencial but important.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

This is worth keeping in mind. The flyer was taken down by Nintendo Switch Italia on Instagram and you cannot find it there. When they tried to explain the situation, it came off as damage control likely one of the interns teased that they're making a new DK game. While not quite a confirmation, it's a hint that we'll be getting a new DK game, likely to be announced soon.

It probably won't matter for the base roster (unless Retro contacted Sakurai about it), but it will play a role as potential DLC content. Since I'm confident the Kremlings are returning for the next DK game, if K. Rool fails to show up in the base game, my bet is that he'll be DLC sometimes next year.

There is also the fact the CEO of Retro Studios supported the Kremling Kampaign on twitter.

I would not put the blame on the fans if we don't get a third DK character, that goes solely on Sakurai. Frankly, Sakurai probably believes it's better to add no one than to add someone he considers to be mediocre for sake of representation.

The "Dixie was considered for Brawl" argument isn't nearly as strong as people think because she planned in the context of being Diddy's duo and then didn't get added on her own then or the next game. She's probably under the same boat as Ridley in that Sakurai doesn't visualize her working on as a character much like how he doesn't see Ridley working out for Smash. If Tropical Freeze wasn't enough for her to get in, a port (which would be coming out far after this game's roster would be decided upon) that does nothing extra for her won't change anything. She won't be getting in independently of K. Rool and that means getting in as the fourth character likely under a different director who may find her interesting. I also don't see Sakurai considering Cranky or Funky Kong. A lot of people have this assumption at least subconsciously that Sakurai will cave in and add a "Third Dee-Kay Rep" just to make people shut up and "muh recency," as if we're supposed to believe that more game appearances will suddenly convince Sakurai to add Ridley. Recency serves no effect other than for Sakurai to decide "who isn't getting in?"

DK in general hasn't exactly been treated favorably by Sakurai last game; only one new stages while Kid Icarus gets two, no newcomers, seven remixes of Jungle Hijinx in a franchise blessed with beautiful music (and even mislabled one Tropical Freeze soundtrack in Smash as something else), and no ATs. If a huge revival of one of gaming's seminal franchise results in such tepid output for such a big crossover, what does that say about who he thinks could be added from it? That's he's probably not going to add one of the Kongs on his own.

I'd like to remind people that it took fan demand to get Diddy Kong in during a downtime in the DK series and because of that, it's going to take the fans taking matter into their own hands to convince Sakurai that there are still characters worth adding, not "reps". That's why DK fans, because almost all of K. Rool fans have played and fell in love with the DK series, banded together and fought for K. Rool's inclusion during the Ballot. Not only do we want K. Rool in Smash and to return to the DK franchise like he deserves to, we want to see better representation of Donkey Kong in all areas; characters, stages, items, ATs, music, etc. K. Rool, with him being the most unique newcomer DK has to offer now, might be the one to open the door for DK contents to flow in but maybe also for Sakurai to consider western third-parties.

The fans speaking up for K. Rool are not going to keep us from getting a newcomer, it might be what gets us one.

I'm surprised Dixie didn't get a Mii costume.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

How would people feel if they announced DKC1 Remastered with the new graphical style from DKC Returns/Tropical Freeze at E3? Sort of like what they did with Crash Remastered. I'd be really happy with that. I think it'd be a good way to introduce the younger generation to K. Rool in his original appearance, and it would also bring back many older gamers who experienced it back when the first DKC was released.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

How would people feel if they announced DKC1 Remastered with the new graphical style from DKC Returns/Tropical Freeze at E3? Sort of like what they did with Crash Remastered. I'd be really happy with that. I think it'd be a good way to introduce the younger generation to K. Rool in his original appearance, and it would also bring back many older gamers who experienced it back when the first DKC was released.

Crash N. Sane Trilogy remade 3 games, not just one unlike your suggestion. Having the first 3 DKC games remade like N. Sane would work even better.

 

[Nekoo]

So, if we're using Mii Costume as an Argument for K.Rool, does it mean a Tales of Protagonist have a chance thanks to Llyod Irving costume? Or that Geno who was as popular than K.Rool now during the Brawl days will make it? Or that Chrom won't get memed and appears?

Also...Anyone can remind me the list of Characters Mii costume that went on around the time the ballot was on?