Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Knight Dude]

I have a question that I'd like everyone to answer honestly.

I know a lot of people have wrote off the possibility of BotW or Odyssey getting a newcomer (mainly because they feel like there are better, more iconic options than Urbosa or Pauline), but I've concluded that there's a good chance we could get a character from either game just because of how ground-breaking each entry was for their respective franchise. I'm a little biased on this statement though, since I specifically support both Mipha and Pauline/Cappy.

So here's my question. Would you be genuinely upset if a Champion or Pauline/Cappy got in before someone more iconic/more requested like Impa/Skull Kid or Waluigi/Daisy, or would you welcome their addition because you understand how successful their game was?

(Edit: Doesn't matter if you think the character is likely. I just want to know if you'd be happy or upset with their inclusion.)

I wouldn't say upset is the right word to use. But if they don't look fun to play, then I'll be mildly dissapointed. It all depends if they happen to be fun to use.

I know I'm about to restart the fire, but what if the next newcomer revealed right before the tournament thing is indeed Ridley, and he is playable in the tournament just so people can try him out and see how well or weirdly he was implemented.

IF he ever gets in, one would hope it isn't an Alex in SF5 deal. Where a LOT of people wanted him in the game, but wasn't used much because he either wasn't good, or was too weird to use properly. Which is what I feel will happen since most heavy fighters in Smash don't have the best time, barring a few exceptions. IF he ever got in.

 

[NintenRob]

This is my current prediction roster. I admit Skull Kid isn't likely but I think it's overall good

 

[CAUP]

I also want to bring up something I haven't heard people talk about with the invitational: if the game has very similar physics to smash 4, smash 4 players could be the only players who have a real chance. You would have to only invite smash 4 players probably. If not, Melee players would probably just get washed and it wouldn't be entertaining. What do people think about this?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I also want to bring up something I haven't heard people talk about with the invitational: if the game has very similar physics to smash 4, smash 4 players could be the only players who have a real chance. You would have to only invite smash 4 players probably. If not, Melee players would probably just get washed and it wouldn't be entertaining. What do people think about this?

Well if its anything like the Smash 4 E3 event, there will be 4 player FFA and items. The Smash 4 players will have an advantage mechanically, but the unpredictable nature of items and stage hazards make game of origin moot imo.

 

[Knight Dude]

I also want to bring up something I haven't heard people talk about with the invitational: if the game has very similar physics to smash 4, smash 4 players could be the only players who have a real chance. You would have to only invite smash 4 players probably. If not, Melee players would probably just get washed and it wouldn't be entertaining. What do people think about this?

Well, it would be pretty bad for them. But blowups can be pretty fun to watch.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I also think you're overly discounting the general Smash skill of Melee players. Smash Bros game sense carries from game to game, it's just specific mechanics that are different. And this game is not going to have carbon-copy characters from Smash 4. I don't think either group will have a significant advantage over the other.

 

[CAUP]

I'm definitely not discounting how skilled melee players are- smash 4 players would just have way more hours. You're right though- it's so chaotic it shouldn't matter.

 

[Knight Dude]

I also think you're overly discounting the general Smash skill of Melee players. Smash Bros game sense carries from game to game, it's just specific mechanics that are different. And this game is not going to have carbon-copy characters from Smash 4. I don't think either group will have a significant advantage over the other.

That's a fair point too. A lot of Marvel players can and have transitioned from Marvel 2, to Marvel 3, to Marvel Infinite to Dragon Ball FighterZ. Although certain player do better in certain games.

 

[BluePikmin11]

My ol' friend @lightdasher created a moveset for Isabelle:

The way she is characterized and incorporated in Smash gameplay really lights up my brain with ideas and makes me want her more in the game. Now I want this cute puppy to be in Smash SO BADLY.

 

[StrangeMann]

I don't know if this video has been posted, but here's Rogersbase's video on indies in smash.

I agree on his points except feel that Shovel Knight and Shantae (or even minecraft Steve if you count him) would be more likely than an undertale rep.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Isabelle is one of those characters that I don't "support" necessarily, but I'd be happy to see her in the game. I could go for a cute, clumsy doggo who just wants to do her best.

Could you imagine Isabelle taking down someone like Bayonetta? What an odd world we live in that such a thing can potentially happen without mods.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I'm legit worried that I've missed out on something!

I keep seeing Savvy Stylist popping up. What the hell? When did this character seem so much like a shoe-in?
I do not mind nor care for the character in general, but I keep seeing this oddball popping up and I'm wondering if there was something I've missed here.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I'm legit worried that I've missed out on something!

I keep seeing Savvy Stylist popping up. What the hell? When did this character seem so much like a shoe-in?
I do not mind nor care for the character in general, but I keep seeing this oddball popping up and I'm wondering if there was something I've missed here.

I've seen next to nothing other than the occasional mention of Savvy Stylist.

 

[Ridel]

I don't know if this video has been posted, but here's Rogersbase's video on indies in smash.

I agree on his points except feel that Shovel Knight and Shantae (or even minecraft Steve if you count him) would be more likely than an undertale rep.

His points on Cave Story are so flawed it's not even funny.

"Cave Story is not relevant anymore"

This just isn't true, as it is still rereleased constantly and people still chat about it and other indie games (IE Blade Stranger, Brawlout) feature them as playable characters. Not to mention relvancy didn't stop Pit, ROB, GnW, or ICs from becoming playable characters.

"It popular in the east but not the west"

Really now. Everyone I've ever talked to have played or at least heard of Cave Story, thanks to it's status as a freeware game.

The whole video just seems heavily biased towards Undertale to the point where he grasps at straws or just makes up false pretenses to better push his ideas. I'm not really angered by the video but it def is not a very well thought out one.

 

[AadmM]

I'm not even a dog person at all (cats [or better yet, bunnies] all the way) and wasn't too keen on Duck Hunt showing up before, but I am all for Isabelle just because of her personality and how that would translate here.

I'd play as her over Villager every time!

 

[Lyndis_]

I've seen next to nothing other than the occasional mention of Savvy Stylist.

This is the first I've heard of it.

 

[PixelSun]

But the question is though. Who's going to be the 2nd newcomer? Place your bets!

I'm going with Rex & Pyra.

It could be an Arms character.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

This is my current prediction roster. I admit Skull Kid isn't likely but I think it's overall good

Skull Kid is somewhat likely. Majora's Mask is one of the most iconic Zelda games and he's a popular character. Also there was Majora's Mask 3D shortly after the last Smash game. He seems like the most likely Zelda newcomer.

I don't know why you chose Karate Joe. Seems like if you want a Rhythm Heaven Character, you should pick one that encompasses the overall series. Otherwise that would be like picking the wolf from Egg instead of Mr. Game & Watch. Wouldn't you expect a character that has something to do with rhythm instead of karate? As for Rayman and Style Savvy, I don't know where you got the idea for them.

And I'll be pissed if Rex & Pyra arent' together. I was gonna say, this is an overall realistic roster despite that I dont think there is gonna be cuts, but you cut the clones for no reason. And if you're gonna say that they are costumes, then don't even respond to this post.

 

[GaroMaster]

His points on Cave Story are so flawed it's not even funny.

"Cave Story is not relevant anymore"

This just isn't true, as it is still rereleased constantly and people still chat about it and other indie games (IE Blade Stranger, Brawlout) feature them as playable characters. Not to mention relvancy didn't stop Pit, ROB, GnW, or ICs from becoming playable characters.

"It popular in the east but not the west"

Really now. Everyone I've ever talked to have played or at least heard of Cave Story, thanks to it's status as a freeware game.

The whole video just seems heavily biased towards Undertale to the point where he grasps at straws or just makes up false pretenses to better push his ideas. I'm not really angered by the video but it def is not a very well thought out one.

I enjoy Roger's content, but I think he's almost certain to be disappointed if an indie character does not make it in.
Just a suggestion, but it's dangerous to expect characters that you want. It almost never ends well.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I think Isabelle would probably make a great Wolf-tier clone. She could use a lot of villager's ideas, but he/she's nothing more than a base. They could change her significantly while keeping her a clone so she'd still be relatively easy to make compared to a full character.

 

[Ridel]

I enjoy Roger's content, but I think he's almost certain to be disappointed if an indie character does not make it in.
Rule of thumb for speculators: It's dangerous to expect characters that you want. It almost never ends well.

Indeed, I think this is the most important thing to keep in mind.

I'm not even really advocating for a Cave Story rep, it just baffles me how much he ignores or makes up just to hold on to false hope.

 

[AadmM]

I actually think an ARMS rep could very well show up at E3 given the mysterious lack of it in the tournaments lined up this year.

...Or, it could just be that between a new Smash and Splatoon DLC, along with the ARMS being finished and old news, there's just no place for it this time around. Probably that.

But I can dream. Ridley would be better anyway.

 

[Ridel]

I really hope the ARMS rep isn't Spring Man......but it likely will be.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I still find it possible that ARMS doesn't have a character til DLC.

 

[Ridel]

I actually an ARMS characters as an assist trophy is more likely but hey I like ARMS, if people want a character from ARMS in I'm down.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I actually an ARMS characters as an assist trophy is more likely but hey I like ARMS, if people want a character from ARMS in I'm down.

Yeah I'm not trying to reject the idea of an ARMS character being playable, but by the time Sakurai would've decided the roster, ARMS hadn't even been released, and maybe even publicly announced if the roster was decided in 2016. There was no guarantee ARMS was going to take off at all.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Honestly, if I can get Ribbon Girl, I'm all for it. I do not know much of ARMS, but a character based on it could be really interesting, going for that Dhalsim style.

 

[N3ON]

I'm working on my own Isabelle moveset, because I thought it would be a challenge. I tried not to lean too heavily on Villager's gimmick of utilization of items from within the game. It's a little different than the above one.

 

[AadmM]

I still fail too see how popularity or reception has any bearing on Smash, really.

First, Roy. Second, Other M Samus and Pyrosphere.

Smash makes things popular, more often than not. The other arguments against ARMS reps I can see though for what it's worth.

 

[Radical Bones]

I'm working on my own Isabelle moveset, because I thought it would be a challenge. I tried not to lean too heavily on Villager's gimmick of utilization of items from within the game. It's a little different than the above one.

Looking forward to seeing it.

Animal Crossing has so much depth to it, I don't think Isabelle needs to be a semi-clone or lean on Villager too much.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: give me Spring Man or give me death.

All jokes aside, I can absolutely see why people want a different character to represent ARMS. The cast is just so well designed, and, yeah, Spring Man is pretty vanilla compared to characters like Min Min, Helix, and Twintelle, but he's my absolute favourite NIntendo character since Olimar, and it just so happens that he is the face of the game. It seems that him getting in would upset a lot of people, and that alone would dampen his inclusion for me.

So now I'm not sure if I want him or not...

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I still fail too see how popularity or reception has any bearing on Smash, really.

First, Roy. Second, Other M Samus and Pyrosphere.

Smash makes things popular, more often than not. The other arguments against ARMS reps I can see though for what it's worth.

You're mentioning franchises that already existed though. ARMS did not exist to the public eye at that point. They're in completely different places.

 

[Autumn ♫]

If we get an Arms character, I totally want Minmin, although we probably most likely will get Springman. Maybe we'll get lucky and have 2 Arms characters?

 

[AadmM]

You're mentioning franchises that already existed though. ARMS did not exist to the public eye at that point. They're in completely different places.

Fire Emblem had no western presence prior to Melee though. Granted, that's splitting hairs a bit, but look what it's done for the series' popularity outside of Japan since. Technically ARMS could be in the same boat here as far as Smash is concerned. All comes down to what Sakurai knew/was told while working on the roster.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: give me Spring Man or give me death.

All jokes aside, I can absolutely see why people want a different character to represent ARMS. The cast is just so well designed, and, yeah, Spring Man is pretty vanilla compared to characters like Min Min, Helix, and Twintelle, but he's my absolute favourite NIntendo character since Olimar, and it just so happens that he is the face of the game. It seems that him getting in would upset a lot of people, and that alone would dampen his inclusion for me.

So now I'm not sure if I want him or not...

My only problem with Spring Man, honestly, is just that he gives me serious Little Mac vibes from a design standpoint somehow.

Otherwise I'd be happy with him, while still preferring Min Min.

 

[Danpal65]

My ol' friend @lightdasher created a moveset for Isabelle:

The way she is characterized and incorporated in Smash gameplay really lights up my brain with ideas and makes me want her more in the game. Now I want this cute puppy to be in Smash SO BADLY.

Now look what you have gone and done. I really want Isabelle in Smash now. That is a really cute/clever moveset that is very distinct from the Villager one, but still feels very much animal crossing. Nice!

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Fire Emblem had no western presence prior to Melee though. Granted, that's splitting hairs a bit, but look what it's done for the series' popularity outside of Japan since. Technically ARMS could be in the same boat here as far as Smash is concerned. All comes down to what Sakurai knew/was told while working on the roster.

Exactly as you said, you're splitting hairs. Fire Emblem had already existed 9 years by the time Melee's roster would've been decided, 10 years by the time Melee was released. And this was when a lot of games weren't localized because Nintendo didn't believe they'd sell well in the West. ARMS didn't exist to anyone outside of Nintendo by the time this roster was decided.

 

[Ridel]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: give me Spring Man or give me death.

All jokes aside, I can absolutely see why people want a different character to represent ARMS. The cast is just so well designed, and, yeah, Spring Man is pretty vanilla compared to characters like Min Min, Helix, and Twintelle, but he's my absolute favourite NIntendo character since Olimar, and it just so happens that he is the face of the game. It seems that him getting in would upset a lot of people, and that alone would dampen his inclusion for me.

So now I'm not sure if I want him or not...

It's more like I think his abilities don't really translate well to Smash. Deflect really only works in a game like ARMS and Comeback isn't a really unique mechanic. I think of all the ARMS characters MinMin has the best potential for a moveset with her kicks not only serving as good normals but can also be used as a utility air dash for recovering or deflecting projectiles. Her dragon arm can also be used to represent the general arm charging mechanic in ARMS without being too complicated.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

My only problem with Spring Man, honestly, is just that he gives me serious Little Mac vibes from a design standpoint somehow.

Otherwise I'd be happy with him, while still preferring Min Min.

Yeah, I can see that. It just so happens that both characters share the same design elements that I love (Mac was my most wanted Smash 4 character). I wouldn't be upset if another ARMS character was chosen instead. Helix or Min Min would be ace as well.

Either way, there isn't a single character Sakurai could add to this game that would down-right make me angry or upset. Anything he puts in I'll be fine with. Sure, I have characters I would like to see, but just the fact that new characters are even happening is all I ever need to be satisfied with Smash.

 

[Freduardo]

His points on Cave Story are so flawed it's not even funny.

"Cave Story is not relevant anymore"

This just isn't true, as it is still rereleased constantly and people still chat about it and other indie games (IE Blade Stranger, Brawlout) feature them as playable characters. Not to mention relvancy didn't stop Pit, ROB, GnW, or ICs from becoming playable characters.

"It popular in the east but not the west"

Really now. Everyone I've ever talked to have played or at least heard of Cave Story, thanks to it's status as a freeware game.

The whole video just seems heavily biased towards Undertale to the point where he grasps at straws or just makes up false pretenses to better push his ideas. I'm not really angered by the video but it def is not a very well thought out one.

I can’t find any confirmation that 3d Quote model is for Brawlout. And Runner 3 seems equally possible.

Has Brawlout confirmed DLC?

 

[GaroMaster]

I think it's safe to say that at this E3, we will probably get at least one first party newcomer and one third party newcomer. It isn't ridiculous to expect since that's what happened to Smash 4 at E3 2013 and 2014.
Real talk, though. Imagine if they revealed Ridley at the Invitational. That would produce a reaction on par with the Twilight Princess E3 trailer reaction.