Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Union of Darkness]

People keep assuming the Snapchat leak came from this print shop, a place that the supposed leaker does not work for anymore. We've known this since yesterday.

We've also known that the supposed leaker works for another company doing the same thing since yesterday. This company has not yet responded to anything, nor can we see if they work for Nintendo, possibly due to NDA.

So no, this response means nothing because it's not the company he works for. He hasn't for two years, and they wouldn't be making Smash and Grinch material two years ago. It's the OTHER company we need to look at, the one that isn't responding.

So what is that other company?

 

[Dixie Kong]

Has Spawnwave said anything about Banjo?

 

[KingofKoopas]

Look at my rank or status (i don't remember how it is called).

It says "Pranked!"

Huh never noticed that before apparently i am a Smash Ace...

I can dig it

 

[Deleted member]

So, uh...Why is Sora being considered in now? Did something happen, or...?

To put it in very short terms so that this won't be a long post, Spawn Wave out of nowhere this year has been getting things consistently right whenever there happens to be a big-name rumor pop up. He knows most of this stuff either by weeks or months ahead of everyone else. Here's a good list:

• Nintendo's 2018 Fall Line-up
• Original September Direct Date
• Catherine: Full Body
• Dual Nintendo Directs in November 2018
• New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe
• Smash Switch bundle @ French Website
• Google's Project Steam
• Xbox One Phone Contract-esque "All Access" Endeavor
• Trine 4

Literally NO other "leaker" or info broker has been this consistent before, and his sources are saying that there'll be a reveal at The Game Awards. He's been guessing Sora a lot, and it's a bit weird. Possibly because of the Kingdom Hearts 3 hype, but that isn't coming to the Switch, so why guess Sora so much? Not to mention, he knows there's one more character. He broke that info first before anyone else did.

This is why I've been pushing December 6th to be possibly the biggest date we have for Smash speculation. **** Directs and **** the Grinch leak, The Game Awards is gonna be the true test.

 

[-crump-]

Photoshopped little mac guy, RelaxAlex, still seems to be going strong with his youtube channel. Curious how his name isn't more well known/immediately recognizable for how big the meme is.

RelaxAlax didn’t create the Photoshopped Little Mac gif, that originated here. He did include it in his video on the subject, but he wasn’t the one who started it.

 

[Narr]

So what is that other company?

ACP-PLV

 

[CosmicQuark]

I think Spawn has doubts on Geno and Banjo mainly due to how they can get the properties and how much of a splash it would make not just in the eyes of Smash fans, but in general, the gaming community. Remember, Banjo has been long gone for more than 10 years, and people don't know what the whole Bear and Bird mantle in Sea of Thieves is. He does want them in, don't get me wrong, he's just also looking at the other side to see how public reaction will be.

BUT, he does want to give a fair stance unlike everyone else so that he can provide both sides of the coin, unlike insiders saying it's fake or @papagenos going all in.

What matters most, though? That fateful day, December 6th. If we might actually get a reveal there at The Game Awards, and it just might happen to be Sora, literally every leaker and other info broker is BTFO'd. The Streak becomes a clean 10-0. Though, if there is a reveal there and it isn't Sora and he was actually right about guessing him, then we might have to think of how to go about if The Streak will go 10-0. I think to be fair, it should.

I'm not sure why Geno would be difficult--we know they're working with Square. And Verge's rumors do contain Minecraft (Microsoft) content--they also contain Incineroar, so Verge's status is certainly complicated. I just think he needs a better reason than that, because from what we know and has been rumored, they're not the "improbable" cases they would have been five years ago.

 

[Untouch]

Am I the only person unsettled that people are trying to pry into this man's personal life and find out where he works for a video game?

Really starting to feel this is going too far...

The community is going from company to company, person to person, dragging their reputation through the mud because they can't wait 2 weeks for info.

 

[Deleted member]

What's this "Pranked!" rank all about?

 

[Deleted member]

Oh boy, I love people who pretend like the internet wouldn't explode if ****ing Minecraft Steve got into Smash.

Like, if you really want Steve in Smash, and you got him, good for you. But Minecraft is literally one of the biggest memes now. People say they would laugh if Goku or Shrek got in, and while Steve makes more sense being an actual video game character, he's still just as much of a meme as they are.

It's a meme to stuffy internet people who like to appear intellectual for hating something that is popular, especially if it's popular with children. It's basically the same thing as the Fortnite hate:

"Why is this bad?"

"Because it's popular and kids like it!"

"Why is THAT bad?"

"Because I said so, and my opinion matters more than everyone else's!"

Minecraft content being in would be huge, yes, but you're kidding yourself if you think it would somehow be a negative. The only people who will throw a fit are loud people on forums, which most likely weren't gonna buy the game anyway and just wanna look cool by bashing something that's popular to hate.

 

[marth_t90]

hope marth has a DLC where you can buy his downair melee hitbox that'd be nice

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Man, we are gonna go back and forth from this leak until the Direct started?

Well, I am going to hide in a cave waiting for either of the teams being debunked when the direct started. Whether good news or bad news.

If Team Fake wins, the salt and tears will flow and I like to sip those tears.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I think what makes this more real to me personally is just HOW divisive this is. ESRB leak was also super divisive and hard to point out what’s real and what’s fake, and even with this sources are scrambling to find the truth because some were told a certain character while others were told another. Overall the amount of uncertainty to it gives me hope.

I’d say it’s real but I could be wrong, the problem with going all in on one side or the other is you set yourself up for a bunch of people pointing fingers and saying “I TOLD YOU SO” when it’s wrong. You might even become a meme like the guy who said shulk was a photoshopped little mac, and who knows where that man is now. Just don’t put all your chips in one basket, for your own good.

What’s funny to me is that the ESRB leak showed way more and I knew it was real from the start, but people were desperate to disprove it because they didn’t want it to be real. This one shows way less yet is also being met with the same skepticism, this time because it’s “too good to be true”. I have my own doubts but I just feel this is real and the insiders are trying to keep hype saved for later or just plain save themselves.

I think we're all missing the real question here:

Spoiler

What am I looking at?
View attachment 171949

The ideal male body. You may not like it, but this is what it looks like. Order your Triforce of Power now.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh boy, I love people who pretend like the internet wouldn't explode if ****ing Minecraft Steve got into Smash.

Like, if you really want Steve in Smash, and you got him, good for you. But Minecraft is literally one of the biggest memes now. People say they would laugh if Goku or Shrek got in, and while Steve makes more sense being an actual video game character, he's still just as much of a meme as they are.

I mean. Just because Minecraft gets made fun of by adults going "LOOK AT THESE SPAWN PLAYING INFERIOR VIDEO GAMES THAN WHAT I PLAYED! MOCK THEM FOR THEIR TASTE!" doesn't mean it's no longer one of the most successful video games in history. And tbh you're no better, Geno only became popular because of a SMRPG song that was a meme back in the days wasn't he? Cause how else was the least noteworthy character in that game a popular request, let alone A request?

 

[osby]

You're right on everything except that Isabelle would definitely appeal to the casual crowd.

Also, don't forget all the preexisting characters; they work to draw in people too.

If preexisting characters counts, there was no reason for hardcore fans to complain ever, bulk of the fighters are from 80s and 90s.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I'm starting to wonder if this is fake.

I saw vaanrose's reply; I was almost sure that LED screen of the banner had a cloud in Point D that didn't match the current banner, as it seemed to have a bottom part that should've went past Bowser Jr.'s head, but oh well.

I'm not entirely sold on the leak, but I'm not against it either. The proof for it being fake is just as good as the proof for it being real.

Y'know, I just realized the problem with these insider guys; yeah, they can't say much or else they lose their source, but come on, why try to spoil anything at all? Because you want a reputation for being correct? Because you want internet fame? Because you want to show off that you know things most don't?

Anyway, I really think the next direct will make or break this leak; if a new character's pose in the mural doesn't match their pose in the leak, it's dead. If they do match, it's real. It's as simple as that. It's possible that the marketing stuff for the background is different due to how it's printed or something, so meh.

Also, has anyone shared this yet? It's from the B-K thread:

If this is fake, either they went through a bunch of mental hoops, or it's actually the guy involved in the leak and he just messed up.

Ok, so analyzing a leak is one thing.

Going into the process of finding the dudes name, where he works, seeing what way they're connected to Video Games, watching a video on how that company does its marketing materials, analyzing that with the leak, and THEN analyzing said leak is just something entirely different.

Never stop, Smash Community.

 

[Opossum]

Anyone who is too young to qualify for AARP has no business calling themselves a boomer. Talk about cringeworthy.

 

[Mutsukki]

I'm starting to wonder if this is fake.

I saw vaanrose's reply; I was almost sure that LED screen of the banner had a cloud in Point D that didn't match the current banner, as it seemed to have a bottom part that should've went past Bowser Jr.'s head, but oh well.

I'm not entirely sold on the leak, but I'm not against it either. The proof for it being fake is just as good as the proof for it being real.

Y'know, I just realized the problem with these insider guys; yeah, they can't say much or else they lose their source, but come on, why try to spoil anything at all? Because you want to show off that you know things most don't? Because you want a reputation for being correct? Because you want internet fame?

Anyway, I really think the next direct will make or break this leak; if a new character's pose in the mural doesn't match their pose in the leak, it's dead. If they do match, it's real. It's as simple as that. It's possible that the marketing stuff for the background is different due to how it's printed or something, so meh.

Also, has anyone shared this yet? It's from the B-K thread:

If this is fake, either they went through a bunch of mental hoops, or it's actually the guy involved in the leak and he just messed up.

Honestly all this shows is that they also use Autocad, which is to be expected for this kind of company. The person who leaked or made the leak obviously works, or know someone who works, with advertising that much is certain.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

what if

the real leak is the friends we made along the way?

it would certainly explain Mach rider

 

[CantGetRidOfTheRidley]

Also, about the casual VS hardcore thing. There's BARELY anything for the casual fans. Brawl is 10 years old now. Older than some potential buyers. EVERYONE IS HERE wouldn't appeal to them as they wouldn't get the context. Inkling would as Splatoon is popular, Ridley wouldn't because Metroid is a niche franchise, CastleVania is something kids have no right to be playing ever since the game got good graphics and became bloody, K.Rool also has the "Is older than potential buyers" thing, Isabelle might appeal to them, Incineroar would likely appeal to them as a familiar face but the rest? Golden Sun has been dead, Mach Rider had a single game, Banjo js dead, Geno's Mii costume was the only thing they have to go off of, I doubt Street Fighter is popular with kids these days and Chorus Kids may be a bit too obscure for non Japanese kids. Shadow's going to be popular though I can guarantee that

No casual (or kid on top of that) thinks like this. Casuals don't go "awww man they added a crocodile but they didn't add *looks at best selling recent games* tetris block, angry bird, or minecraft steve. Guess I won't buy this". Casuals go "Wow they made a new smash game I can't wait to buy it and play with my friends I'll play as mario and you play the dragon". I'll go on a limb and say most casuals likely play characters they think look cool and that's it. Maybe a Pokemon too because everyone knows Pokemon. Also note there's different levels of casual. I would wager most video game players who would play smash but aren't big Nintendo fans but vaguely familiar with video games as a whole could still recognize castlevania and banjo, those are far from obscure.

 

[Confirmation]

It's a meme to stuffy internet people who like to appear intellectual for hating something that is popular, especially if it's popular with children. It's basically the same thing as the Fortnite hate:

"Why is this bad?"

"Because it's popular and kids like it!"

"Why is THAT bad?"

"Because I said so, and my opinion matters more than everyone else's!"

Minecraft content being in would be huge, yes, but you're kidding yourself if you think it would somehow be a negative. The only people who will throw a fit are loud people on forums, which most likely weren't gonna buy the game anyway and just wanna look cool by bashing something that's popular to hate.

I mean, I find Steve a bad choice because he'd basically be a blocky Link. Sword, bow, explosives, the only thing that could set him apart is building (which would be ridiculous) and potions.

 

[Paperchampion23]

So what is that other company?

I forget the name but look through Papagenos's comments from like 2 hours ago. The source/guy/leaker now works for a similar company that does similar things. The companies are even similarly named.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

I think we're all missing the real question here:

Spoiler

What am I looking at?
View attachment 171949

That's Chadondorf

 

[Tart]

People wanted the teak to be real so damn bad that it clouded their judgment. I assume it's just because most leaks are pretty effortless and that no one assumed someone would go through a little effort to make their leak seem believable.

It's still up in the air on whether or not it's real or fake, but I feel that people who were 100% on team real were just drunk on hype and were a bit too gullible.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Honestly all this shows is that they also use Autocad, which is to be expected for this kind of company. The person who leaked or made the leak obviously works, or know someone who works, with advertising that much is certain.

orrrr they pirated autocad

just a thought

 

[KingofKoopas]

Ok, so analyzing a leak is one thing.

Going into the process of finding the dudes name, where he works, seeing what way they're connected to Video Games, watching a video on how that company does its marketing materials, analyzing that with the leak, and THEN analyzing said leak is just something entirely different.

Never stop, Smash Community.

Yeah seriously let's not dox the guy! Christ!

 

[larlargaming]

honestly if fake, some of these characters could be for DLC

 

[P1ZZ4CHU]

Once again, why do people have an hard time to understand the Point of View of an Insiders?
They CANT tell you EXACTLY or SHOW proof that it's fake because that would Break the relationship of trust that they have with their sources, that sometimes took years to build up.
Heck, most of them made comment, like the VG247 guy, Spawn-Wave and others saying that the problem is that Incineroar is not here at all or the lack of Pokémon rep is weird.
They can't talk more about others characters because those characters would probably break it and be easy to trace back to their sources. Heck, most of them probably got the autorization to talk about Incineroar from their sources after Vergeben's got his time to shine.

Like, legit, anyone who ever made some basic journalism knows what's up. It's not like there one people saying it's fake, it's literally every insiders with some Smash info, that are usually VERY trustworthy who says so-

Let's not diss them completely, and be comprehensive too- that's why team "Hmmm" is best bet.

I don't think taking them at their word is any more productive. Maybe it's just my personal experience coloring my perspective, but I distinctly remember being burned hard by "insider info."

Once upon a time there was a man named Paul Gale, who was a high society book writer with contracts in the video game industry. He ran a martial arts and entertainment blog, and sometimes posted things he'd obtained as rumors. He was the first one to reveal Playstation All-Stars to the world all the way back when its working title was Playstation Title Fight. He posted screenshots, debug info, and early character concepts that turned out to have been scrapped later.

WELL.

He liked to have fun. After the initial info, in the interest of protecting his sources, he started to post picture riddles (obvious ones but it was just for fun) about characters that were supposed to be in. We all believed it 100% because why wouldn't we? He was credible.

One of those riddles was a bunch of bullets arranged in a way to spell "La Li Lu Le Lo."

Guess which hint didn't come true?

Point being, even someone with that much access could at some point get tossed out of the loop. These people aren't infallible no matter their track record, and unless they put up actual incontrovertible evidence, we have no choice but to evaluate their claims based on what we have. Credibility can only take you so far in the entertainment industry, and despite all their certainty, at the end of the day they're only a step or two above us in the food chain.

 

[CosmicQuark]

What’s funny to me is that the ESRB leak showed way more and I knew it was real from the start, but people were desperate to disprove it because they didn’t want it to be real. This one shows way less yet is also being met with the same skepticism, this time because it’s “too good to be true”. I have my own doubts but I just feel this is real and the insiders are trying to keep hype saved for later or just plain save themselves.

The ideal male body. You may not like it, but this is what it looks like. Order your Triforce of Power now.

Yeah, the picture quality and content of this leak is a lot worse. But even those who think it's fake, like SpawnWave, preface it with "it does look real and have a lot of things going for it," before going through their reasoning why they think it's fake. It's why I think it's likely, but not certain. And I just feel like in order to be convinced otherwise, there has to be an equal or more substantial evidence/reasoning to cast doubt on it.

 

[Deleted member]

man y'all its WILD that the grinch who stole christmas is being discussed about in a smash leak and no one blinks an eye. 2018 smash is ****in wild, imagine showing this thread to smashboards pre-brawl. damn

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Anyone who is too young to qualify for AARP has no business calling themselves a boomer. Talk about cringeworthy.

Just like all the articles that go "Millenials don't like X" when it's saying "People who were born between 1980 and 2000 don't like X". Think someone made a chrome extension to automatically change Millenial into that lol

 

[osby]

No casual (or kid on top of that) thinks like this. Casuals don't go "awww man they added a crocodile but they didn't add *looks at best selling recent games* tetris block, angry bird, or minecraft steve. Guess I won't buy this". Casuals go "Wow they made a new smash game I can't wait to buy it and play with my friends I'll play as mario and you play the dragon". I'll go on a limb and say most casuals likely play characters they think look cool and that's it. Maybe a Pokemon too because everyone knows Pokemon. Also note there's different levels of casual. I would wager most video game players who would play smash but aren't big Nintendo fans but vaguely familiar with video games as a whole could still recognize castlevania and banjo, those are far from obscure.

I had zero idea what a Banjo was when I wasn't a big Nintendo fan.

Also, casual don't mean "I don't know a video game character except Mario", it's more like "I play what's around, not decade old games".

 

[FalcoXP]

what if

the real leak is the friends we made along the way?

it would certainly explain Mach rider

Your avatar makes it better

 

[Phyr]

I remember a few times, particularly in recent memory of him being wrong on leaks before. I really wouldn't put much stock in him these days.
View attachment 171944

I would like to paste this into his face in the resetera topic to be honest.

The "burden of proof is in true" is one of the silliest thing i've ever heard, specially when he says that all the proof and evidence hinting to true is fake. The guy is holding straws, like he has always do. If he is not the one with the info, nobody is. He has been like this for 14 years now (used to be a Pokemon journalist a loooong time ago, in 2nd and 3rd gen). so it's nothing strange to me.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Photoshopped little mac guy, RelaxAlex, still seems to be going strong with his youtube channel. Curious how his name isn't more well known/immediately recognizable for how big the meme is.

Regardless you def have a very good point. I wasn't around for ESRB (well I was around for the speculation cycle, just didn't know about the leak) but everything I'm hearing and seeing about this leak seems to correspond very well with how ESRB went.

The thing is, though, that argument rests on people's feelings and intuitions, which are purely subjective. Feeling a certain way about a leak has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it's factual and legitimate.

The circumstances seem similar to the ESRB but we can't say that confirms it because, well, it doesn't. It's definitely interesting to note the similarities though.

RelaxAlax has been wrong about two things in his whole life: Shulk being a photoshopped Little Mac, and Makoto being best girl.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Ok, so analyzing a leak is one thing.

Going into the process of finding the dudes name, where he works, seeing what way they're connected to Video Games, watching a video on how that company does its marketing materials, analyzing that with the leak, and THEN analyzing said leak is just something entirely different.

Never stop, Smash Community.

The fact that 95% of that lines up with what we know though should tell people that this is either real or some actual real life plot twist designed by like 10 different world class mystery writers. How, if fake, can one person masterfully do all of this without a shred of inconsistency (I'm not talking about background art people so don't bring it up)?

 

[KingofKoopas]

honestly if fake, some of these characters could be for DLC

without a doubt the demand would be there because of this leak.

 

[Mutsukki]

orrrr they pirated autocad

just a thought

Uh... yeah sure! You can pirate AutoCad and still not know how to use it though ahaha

A lot of these autocad templates are standard for advertising companies, but you still have to know a little bit about the program (which is admitidelly not a user-friendly one at all)

 

[Deleted member]

I had zero idea what a Banjo was when I wasn't a big Nintendo fan.

Also, casual don't mean "I don't know a video game character except Mario", it's more like "I play what's around, not decade old games".

You didn't know who banjo was? dumbass its like one of the most popular instruments, what are you 10 years old?

obvious joke

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, I find Steve a bad choice because he'd basically be a blocky Link. Sword, bow, explosives, the only thing that could set him apart is building (which would be ridiculous) and potions.

He would work nothing like Link. Like, at all. That's like saying every sword user in the game is Link because they use a sword.

Steve has pretty much unlimited potential for what you could want him to be. He could be a traditional sword fighter, he could be a stage control gimmick character, he could have multiple projectiles for spacing, he could have inventory systems like Villager and Isabelle, and the list goes on.

To each their own, though. I'm not saying people have to like Steve, I just don't think he's as horrible an idea everyone seems to think he is. The hate MC gets from people on the internet will never cease to confuse me, TBH.