Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[TheCJBrine]

This looks so real.

It looks so real.

Chorus Kids look perfect; I saw someone mention "why not use original poses? They look similar to their official art, just with their limbs in different positions" but those poses are iconic, so there's no reason not to use them. The other characters are hard to judge since the mural is far away from the camera, but they still seem to fit.

Of course I'm taking it with a grain of salt, though it's hard because hype. If a character is missing, they probably didn't have Incineroar on that version of the mural because he comes later.

 

[MainJPW]

im just excited for the Mach Rider theme remix

I’m irrationally hyped now.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Did I know I would wake up into a world where I can say "Oh look, Wendy's responded to the Grinch leak"?

No. But I'm glad to be here.

Wendy's knows what's up too

Is it Geno?

— Wendy’s (@Wendys) October 24, 2018

 

[Deleted member]

Get notoriety for what? Losing his job and being known as the idiot that caused his own down-fall?

True... at this point I'm still in team hmmm but an starting to lean towards team real.... The only way this could be fake is if the guy decided to spend hours and hours of his time doing this (I guess he would have the resources for it now that we know where he works) for no reason other then to be out of a job and have 15 minutes of fame on the internet

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

This looks so real.

It looks so real.

Chorus Kids look perfect; I saw someone mention "why not use original poses? They look similar to their official art, just with their limbs in different positions" but those poses are iconic, so there's no reason not to use them. The other characters are hard to judge since the mural is far away from the camera, but they still seem to fit. The other characters are hard to judge as the mural pre-stitched-together is farther from the camera, but they seem to fit still.

Of course I'm taking it with a grain of salt, though it's hard because hype. If a character is missing, they probably didn't have Incineroar on that version of the mural.

I think a lot of evidence is leading to it being legit, but I think more stuff will happen later tonight or tomorrow.

 

[kylexv]

Alright, I'll go. This is assuming the leak is real, obviously:

First off, Shadow. Behind Ken, I always thought Shadow was the most likely echo fighter, especially after Richter was revealed. Sonic Adventure 2: Battle is one of the four Gamecube games I have the most fond memories of (along with Melee, Double Dash!!, and Pikmin 2). Although this isn't Tails, I'm perfectly happy with Shadow being in the game. In fact, he was probably the echo I wanted the most. 8/10

And then there's Ken. Out of all potential characters at this point, Ken was the closest to a lock. With virtually every leak including him at this point, and the most real-looking leak at this point including him, I've been prepared since August for his inclusion. I do appreciate Ken being here, but I probably would have preferred Akuma a little more. 5/10

Onto the unique newcomers, first, we have Isaac. I have never played Golden Sun, but the idea of a character that uses earth magic in Smash Bros. has always intrigued me a little. I have played him a little in Super Smash Flash 2, and he's pretty fun, but I'm not as excited for him as I am happy for the people that wanted him. 6/10

Next, we have the Chorus Kids. Along with Chrom (who's in already), the Chorus Kids were one of the two characters in the Gematsu leak that did not make it into Smash 4. I think its utterly amazing that these two both managed to get into the game. I've never played Rhythm Heaven, but I'm mostly excited to see how they play. 6/10

Then, we have Mach Rider. After Takamaru was confirmed to still be an Assist Trophy, I felt that the most likely retro character would be Balloon Fighter, mostly as a tribute to Iwata and his legacy. But I am perfectly fine with Mach Rider. He is this game's retro character, and I've found that I always have a soft spot for the retro characters (I play Game and Watch and R.O.B. occasionally, and the Ice Climbers are looking really fun this time around). I would just like to see what Sakurai came up with in terms of a moveset. 7/10

There are two big third-party characters in this leak, the first being Banjo. Never would I have ever thought Banjo would have a chance of making it onto the base roster. In fact, I can dig up a past post about it:

Anyone that thinks Banjo will be in the base roster is just setting themselves up for disappointment.

Yeah, look how that one's turning out. Regardless, it's going to reach Cloud-levels of absurdity if he is actually in the game. I got a trial version of the original on Xbox 360 years back, and I remember it being pretty fun, but I am definitely more happy for the sheer number of people that will be pleased about his inclusion. 9/10

Finally, the one character I've been wanting the most for this game (other than Ridley and K. Rool, of course): Geno. It's amazing seeing him here. I always thought Geno had a cool design and good moveset potential, so I am very happy that Sakurai might be actually implementing that into this game. I can't wait to play him if this is in fact real. 10/10

 

[lightdrago]

I now severely question Sakurai/Nintendo's logic of holding off that direct till November. Middle to Late October would have been better if only to prevent this (if it's real. I'm still skeptical). It's not like people would have lost interest. It's Smash for God's sake. Nobody would just forget about a title like that.

Whatever, I guess. They reap what they sow.

 

[CosmicQuark]

That roster leak seems like absolute nonsense. It's basically "Every requested/suspected/leaked character, plus a couple that were cut/considered for previous games. Anyone could put that together.

Also, that's probably way too many characters. Sakurai explicitly said that we should expect the character announcements to decrease, as though to say that the August Direct gave a false impression due to how packed it was. He said at E3 "Don't expect too many new fighters," and then two months later gives us five (with three Echo Fighters), which probably only left a few remaining reveals, but gave the impression that the next Direct would probably have just as many fighters, which is unlikely.

I'm reminded of the "codename" leak that was basically the same thing, just with more flair. The codename leak also had way too many characters, and they were all the obvious picks. Not that that's unbelievable, since this game has generally been going for obvious picks anyways, but there's no way all of them are going to make it like in this leak. Ashley got deconfirmed, after all.

Reminder: the number of newcomers for each game was 14 in Melee, 18 in Brawl, and 15 in Smash 4 (not counting Echoes and DLC). Right now we're at 9 newcomers, 4 of them Echo Fighters (with a more work put into them than those in Smash 4). I doubt we're going to get more than 3 more fully new characters at most.

That "leak" isn't impossible, I just don't think it's very likely.

1. Why would Sakurai fill a game with characters people want? Huh
2. No, not anyone could reconstruct the background from the mural, create new renders for characters, move characters around.
3. He never said character announcements would decrease. Read what he said. He said things would be slowing down. That's referring to pacing, not the amount of characters.
4. The codename leak was text. If this is fake, it's a reconstruction of the mural. How the **** are they the same?
5. According to this leak, there is 10 unique newcomers. Less than all of those. Adding echoes it matches Smash 4, and every game up to this point had increased character count, not stayed the same. Same goes to "Don't expect too many fighters." That's too subjective of a statement to make or break any leak--compared to what? Previous games? What the next game would have been, projecting? Including or not including echoes? Should we only expect Ridley as some expected back at E3? More than that could have been "too many."

There's so much wrong in here. I'm skeptical of this leak, and it would be nice to debunk it. But not getting the facts straight and treating subjective opinions as objective fact ain't how you debunk things.

 

[Iridium]

I legitimately want Sakurai to view this thread and see what we've become. We need some official confirmations soon, stat.

 

[Ring-a-Sheep]

Have whatever opinions you want about the leak, but at least admit saying something is "impossible" is 100% invalid

 

[Deleted member]

I'm dropping Shulk in favor of Grinch if this is legit.

 

[MagnesD3]

My ratings

Shadow: 8/10
My first sonic game was Sonic Adventure 2 Battle so I definitely have nostalgia for the character even though the games weren’t kind to him after. Also he’s super iconic to sonic. Hope he’s a semi clone like Isabelle.

Ken: 2/10
I love street fighter but ken is bland as hell, he is the iconic player 2 but still meh..

Issac 5/10
He reps a new series and he’s iconic, I don’t care too much since he is another sword wielder but I’m happy for his fans and I always thought the giant psychic hand was cool

Chorus Kids 3/10
Reps a new series and could have a really unique moveset so that’s cool I guess

Geno 5/10
He’s a cool character but idk if he really deserves to be in but it’s whatever his fans will finally be happy, I’d much rather have Paper Mario though

Mach Rider 3/10

He was gonna be in melee so it’s cool he’s being revisited and I think his moveset will turn out really unique, idk he’s iconic at all but maybe he is because of the whole nes retro argument but oh well

Banjo Kazooie 10/10

My favorite game and my most wanted character. Old Nintendo favorite who will have finally returned home, high moveset potential, really popular and iconic, opens up the door with Microsoft. I’ll probably cry if I see his trailer lol.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He is a Royal Knight , and the RKs sometimes make bad things becouse Yggdrasil ordered.

Omnimon killed like milions of inocent Digimon in the X-Evolution Movie.

Considering Sakurai tends to go for the most iconic appearances, I doubt the characterization would be anything other than Diabolomon's movie. Speaking of didn't that guy get a new form like, last week?

 

[papagenos]

GET ON THE BIKE LOSERS

If this leak turns out to be true...as much as im excited for Geno and Banjo and Isaac... Mach Rider making it in makes me very happy, that was the reason i made my first video about smash ultimate, was to get a "mach rider" theory out there. Sooo crazy if it actually comes true.

 

[CannonStreak]

I am not so sure abotu Imran's post about this leak. He may seem credible, but he said he doesn't know the final roster, and he did not even say he knew of one character on the final roster. Plus, on that topic where he said that, he did not even respond to those who asked if he knew anyone on the roster. How does he not know if this is not the final roster if he knows nothing of it and how do we know he is not lying? Just because you are credible does not mean you are credible all the time. Not saying I believe this leak, I am still on Team Hmmmmm.

 

[Graizen]

Considering Sakurai tends to go for the most iconic appearances, I doubt the characterization would be anything other than Diabolomon's movie. Speaking of didn't that guy get a new form like, last week?

Not a new form , Omnimon has variations.

And i think he will go for the Games version of Omnimon in this case.

 

[PsySmasher]

I mean even if the leak is fake there's one good thing to come out of this:

Wendy's tweeting about Smash.
I'm forever a Wendy's guy.

 

[Potato_]

We'll know soon enough.

Feels like that's been the thread's mantra for weeks.

At least November 8th is looking likely.

 

[Diem]

Consider what we would've thought of "all veterans plus K. Rool, Ridley, Chrom, and Dark Samus" back in the day.
I don't know why people keep bringing up "it's all the requested and suspected characters", seeing as that's a lot of what we've gotten so far. This is clearly the game where we're gonna get that.

Oh I agree that that's what the game is gunning for. My early predictions from months ago were that we were going to get Geno, Isaac, Banjo Kazooie and the like. Vergeben even kept saying that a Gen VII Pokémon was going to be in the game, and I didn't believe it, because there were several characters that were much more requested than any Pokémon, so it wouldn't fit with the pattern of announcements so far.

But then Ashley got deconfirmed, which showed that not all hugely requested characters were going to make it.

And then Isabelle happened, not as an Echo Fighter, which showed that it might not all be fanservice picks, since she primarily appeals to the casual audience.

And Vergeben seems adamant that Incineroar is going to be in the game, which isn't even the Pokémon that a lot of people would have wanted.

So now we're at a stage where almost anything can happen. For all we know, Geno, Isaac, and Banjo Kazooie aren't going to be in the game at all. I have faith in at least Geno, but nothing is as certain as it once was.

Guess I have to say it again.

If your only real qualm against it is 'it's more than I expected', you don't have a very good argument to call it fake.

Sakurai LIVES to overperform and surpass expectations. And for the millionth time, he said to expect less in both Brawl and Smash 4.

Which is why I didn't say it was impossible, just very unlikely.

Given that they had to bring back 7 or so veterans with brand new assets and other changes, on top of the 9 characters we already have, and all the other work that's going into the game, getting 7 more characters at once, which would place the number of newcomers at 16, after Sakurai has twice said to temper our expectations... I don't buy it.

It could happen. I'd love for it to happen. But I like to err on the side of caution.

 

[Weeman]

Everyone who doesn't give Geno a 10/10 smells bahd.

 

[Iridium]

I'm dropping Shulk in favor of Grinch if this is legit.

Is it because Shulk's the true leaker that we never suspected?

 

[staindgrey]

True... at this point I'm still in team hmmm but an starting to lean towards team real.... The only way this could be fake is if the guy decided to spend hours and hours of his time doing this (I guess he would have the resources for it now that we know where he works) for no reason other then to be out of a job and have 15 minutes of fame on the internet

Well, he wouldn't be out of a job if he faked it.

 

[Sigran101]

Pros:
- Background would have to have been made from scratch
- Unlike previous banner leaks, tons of characters were moved around to make room for the newcomers
- Newcomers all seem to be unique character models--dynamically posed and detailed (e.g., Conductor for Chorus kids, Isaac using vines)
- The guy who took the picture works for a French advertising company with ties to Bandai Namco (this part confirmed, though he could still have faked it)
- Insiders saying it's either fake or incomplete (but not dismissing it entirely)

Cons:
- TOO MANY CHARACTERS
- Oh, about the actual leak itself? I dunno, shadows.
- EDIT: Forgot Incineroar, but so did this banner Thanks @Good Guy Giygas

I could be wrong, but isn't a lot of that pro leak evidence the same kind of thing people said about the Palutena leak in smash 4?

 

[CrunchyCHEEZIT]

Wendy's knows what's up too

Is it Geno?

— Wendy’s (@Wendys) October 24, 2018

> we live in a timeline where Geno is mentioned by name in a ****ing Wendy's tweet

Good god. Am I in bizarro world?

 

[KMDP]

Consider what we would've thought of "all veterans plus K. Rool, Ridley, Chrom, and Dark Samus" back in the day.
I don't know why people keep bringing up "it's all the requested and suspected characters", seeing as that's a lot of what we've gotten so far. This is clearly the game where we're gonna get that.

Some people are still stuck in the Brawl/Smash 4 mindset of "must be relevant with one or two exceptions", it seems.

 

[Deleted member]

Is it because Shulk's the true leaker that we never suspected?

Shulk is a photoshopped Smashified Grinch. It's literally this render:

 

[osby]

Oh I agree that that's what the game is gunning for. My early predictions from months ago were that we were going to get Geno, Isaac, Banjo Kazooie and the like. Vergeben even kept saying that a Gen VII Pokémon was going to be in the game, and I didn't believe it, because there were several characters that were much more requested than any Pokémon, so it wouldn't fit with the pattern of announcements so far.

But then Ashley got deconfirmed, which showed that not all hugely requested characters were going to make it.

And then Isabelle happened, not as an Echo Fighter, which showed that it might not all be fanservice picks, since she primarily appeals to the casual audience.

And Vergeben seems adamant that Incineroar is going to be in the game, which isn't even the Pokémon that a lot of people would have wanted.

So now we're at a stage where almost anything can happen. For all we know, Geno, Isaac, and Banjo Kazooie aren't going to be in the game at all. I have faith in at least Geno, but nothing is as certain as it once was.


Which is why I didn't say it was impossible, just very unlikely.

Given that they had to bring back 7 or so veterans with brand new assets and other changes, on top of the 9 characters we already have, and all the other work that's going into the game, getting 7 more characters at once, which would place the number of newcomers at 16, after Sakurai has twice said to temper our expectations... I don't buy it.

It could happen. I'd love for it to happen. But I like to err on the side of caution.

Is there a specific reason why Smash fandom doesn't count characters that loved by casual audiences from fanservice?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not a new form , Omnimon has variations.

And i think he will go for the Games version of Omnimon in this case.

Meant Diabolomon, sorry for not clarifying

Again, most iconic appearances are preferred

Everyone who doesn't give Geno a 10/10 smells bahd.

Yes because we should trust the sense of small of a man named after urine

 

[The_Naraotor]

I want to believe that leak but how many times I've been deceived so ...

"Me: Waiter BOY I'll have huge mountain of salt please !"

"Waiter boy: Is this mountain will suffice sir ?" (show picture)

Me:

 

[PK-remling Fire]

I want this leak to be true so badly. Geno, Isaac, AND Banjo just seem too good to be true!

 

[JacobLeBeauOFFICIAL]

Also, gotta love how despise all this, pac man gives no ****s at all by the danger and competition.

 

[Deleted member]

Let's meet up to see the new Grinch movie.

 

[Luigi The President]

Oh I agree that that's what the game is gunning for. My early predictions from months ago were that we were going to get Geno, Isaac, Banjo Kazooie and the like. Vergeben even kept saying that a Gen VII Pokémon was going to be in the game, and I didn't believe it, because there were several characters that were much more requested than any Pokémon, so it wouldn't fit with the pattern of announcements so far.

But then Ashley got deconfirmed, which showed that not all hugely requested characters were going to make it.

And then Isabelle happened, not as an Echo Fighter, which showed that it might not all be fanservice picks, since she primarily appeals to the casual audience.

And Vergeben seems adamant that Incineroar is going to be in the game, which isn't even the Pokémon that a lot of people would have wanted.

So now we're at a stage where almost anything can happen. For all we know, Geno, Isaac, and Banjo Kazooie aren't going to be in the game at all. I have faith in at least Geno, but nothing is as certain as it once was.


Which is why I didn't say it was impossible, just very unlikely.

Given that they had to bring back 7 or so veterans with brand new assets and other changes, on top of the 9 characters we already have, and all the other work that's going into the game, getting 7 more characters at once, which would place the number of newcomers at 16, after Sakurai has twice said to temper our expectations... I don't buy it.

It could happen. I'd love for it to happen. But I like to err on the side of caution.

Ashley isn't really near the status of K. Rool, Ridley, Geno, Isaac, or Banjo. IMO they're the 5 S tiers. Everyone below that isn't.
I don't think Isabelle being unique changed everything like we seem to think.

As much as I've defended the guy...Verge could be wrong.

 

[Buzzwole]

I just really hope that if this ends up being fake, people still remember what an incredible roster this is, even without any of these leaked characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Is there a specific reason why Smash fandom doesn't count characters that loved by casual audiences from fanservice?

Because they aren't brought up 50 times a day in speculation threads on forums.

That's about the only reasoning.

 

[papagenos]

> we live in a timeline where Geno is mentioned by name in a ****ing Wendy's tweet

Good god. Am I in bizarro world?

Might have to get Wendys on the way home...

This is some grade A marketing.

 

[Deleted member]

I just really hope that if this ends up being fake, people still remember what an incredible roster this is, even without any of these leaked characters.

Indeed.

 

[praline]

I kinda think the leak moght be real.

 

[Luigi The President]

> we live in a timeline where Geno is mentioned by name in a ****ing Wendy's tweet

Good god. Am I in bizarro world?

Yes. The food twitter mentioned video game.

TONIGHT WE EAT WENDY.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I could be wrong, but isn't a lot of that pro leak evidence the same kind of thing people said about the Palutena leak in smash 4?

I'd have to defer to those who were around the time to say if it's a valid comparison. Open to critiques, if any of the logic doesn't follow. I'm still highly skeptical of this leak--but I've tried finding ways of looking at it critically and haven't come up with much.