Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[A Distant Demon]

I mean we already got Bayo so...



Popularity is key.

Fixed that for you.

Bayo could be the exception based on special circumstances for all we know

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I guess if your definition of fun is bdsm...

Really?

Fixed that for you.

Bayo could be the exception based on special circumstances for all we know

That's true as well but I think a fun moveset is also key for these kinds of things.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I just hope Nintendo doesn't go so nuts with these third party characters that they forget their niche picks. There's some obscure Nintendo characters that I'd love to see.

Forget Takamaru, what about Lip? Or Funky Kong? The ultimate one would be F-Type from Stunt Race FX.

 

[FunAtParties]

Really?


That's true as well but I think a fun moveset is also key for these kinds of things.

Hey I mean everyone's got their thing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hey I mean everyone's got their thing.

Really?

I just hope Nintendo doesn't go so nuts with these third party characters that they forget their niche picks. There's some obscure Nintendo characters that I'd love to see.

Forget Takamaru, what about Lip? Or Funky Kong? The ultimate one would be F-Type from Stunt Race FX.

Funky Kong isn't obscure.

He's just minor.

 

[FunAtParties]

I just hope Nintendo doesn't go so nuts with these third party characters that they forget their niche picks. There's some obscure Nintendo characters that I'd love to see.

Forget Takamaru, what about Lip? Or Funky Kong? The ultimate one would be F-Type from Stunt Race FX.

That's honestly what bums me out about these kind of discussions. Yeah, we can go for every single icon in video game history, but we still don't have so many Nintendo characters, and it seems like people don't care about them anymore.

Before Smash 4, Lip, Ray, Starfy, Andy, Isaac, Saki, Sukapon, etc... all felt like they still had a chance to me. Now that Smash has 'evolved' from Nintendo's ultimate fighting game crossover to Video Game's ultimate fighting game crossover, it seems like those chances are starting to fade away.

 

[Megadoomer]

What about Simon Belmont from Castlevania?

Rest all are interesting in their own right, respectively.

Also, I'd say Lloyd Irving and Cress should be among the Bandai-Namco contenders as well. Same with Nightmare. Five notable choices overall, even if two are from the same series.

Simon would work well. I could easily picture him in Smash, but I guess I didn't think of him because I've never been able to get into the Castlevania series (I've tried several times, but Castlevania 1 seems like near-Ninja Gaiden or Battletoads levels of difficult, Super Castlevania 4 has some really bizarre decisions (as I recall, you die if the stage scrolls up and you fall down a pit to a place where a platform used to be - Super Mario Bros. 2 for the NES didn't have that limitation!), and Symphony of the Night seems really difficult to navigate (I have no idea where I'm supposed to be going, and at times, it feel like I accidentally wandered into areas where I'm not supposed to be yet because the enemies seem overpowered).

Lloyd and Nightmare could definitely work (especially since Tales of Symphonia has a similar control scheme to Smash); not familiar with who Cress is, though.

 

[Schnee117]

Lloyd and Nightmare could definitely work (especially since Tales of Symphonia has a similar control scheme to Smash); not familiar with who Cress is, though.

Cress is the protagonist of the original Tales game, Tales of Phantasia.
Though I'd personally prefer Yuri from Vesperia or Velvet from Berseria.

 

[PsychoJosh]

That's honestly what bums me out about these kind of discussions. Yeah, we can go for every single icon in video game history, but we still don't have so many Nintendo characters, and it seems like people don't care about them anymore.

Before Smash 4, Lip, Ray, Starfy, Andy, Isaac, Saki, Sukapon, etc... all felt like they still had a chance to me. Now that Smash has 'evolved' from Nintendo's ultimate fighting game crossover to Video Game's ultimate fighting game crossover, it seems like those chances are starting to fade away.

If Sakurai would just cool it with the damn clones and Fire Emblem characters, they'd have more of a chance.

Get rid of everyone from Fire Emblem who isn't Marth. That's what I'd do. They don't need to put in a character from every single one of the past five games. It'd be like if Final Fantasy got six separate reps in Smash. Cloud, Sephiroth, Terra, Kefka, Tifa and Barrett. It'd be gross overkill.

 

[Baskerville]

Cress is the protagonist of the original Tales game, Tales of Phantasia.
Though I'd personally prefer Yuri from Vesperia or Velvet from Berseria.

After playing Project X Zone I have to say I like Yuri more than I do Lloyd. Also, I read that in Japan, Yuri is the most popular character from the series, so popular that they actually had to ban him (along with Leon) because he won the popularity poll too many times.

 

[Deleted member]

If Sakurai would just cool it with the damn clones and Fire Emblem characters, they'd have more of a chance.

Get rid of everyone from Fire Emblem who isn't Marth. That's what I'd do. They don't need to put in a character from every single one of the past five games. It'd be like if Final Fantasy got six separate reps in Smash. Cloud, Sephiroth, Terra, Kefka, Tifa and Barrett. It'd be gross overkill.

Literally nothing you said in this post makes any bit of sense whatsoever.

 

[FunAtParties]

If Sakurai would just cool it with the damn clones and Fire Emblem characters, they'd have more of a chance.

Get rid of everyone from Fire Emblem who isn't Marth. That's what I'd do. They don't need to put in a character from every single one of the past five games. It'd be like if Final Fantasy got six separate reps in Smash. Cloud, Sephiroth, Terra, Kefka, Tifa and Barrett. It'd be gross overkill.

I agree he should chill with FE, but I think widdling it down to Marth would be overkill. My opinion has always been Marth, Ike, and Chrom, with the open possibility of a fourth character if they prove to have some large significance to the series, or the marketing around the series like the other three do. I think 3-4 characters is a nice sweetspot.

I would like to move away from clones. I saw there necessity back when the roster was smaller, but with 50+ characters adding clones for niche fanbases makes little sense to me.

 

[Schnee117]

If Sakurai would just cool it with the damn clones and Fire Emblem characters, they'd have more of a chance.

Clones have never taken anyone's "slot"
With Melee it was those 6 or you got nothing (they had enough time for 6 clones but not one full character).
With Smash 4 they were intended to be alt costumes but differences came up in later development that justified making them separate.

The characters for Smash 4 were decided in 2012 (aside from the clones). Robin never took anyone's "slot" (well he took Chrom's due to being more unique but that's besides the main point), Lucina was a last minute clone because stuff happened in development, Roy was the only choice to fill the criteria of Melee veteran (Mewtwo was to test the waters for DLC despite also being a Melee veteran whilst Pichu and Young Link aren't as popular as him in regards to Smash) and Corrin was for promotional purposes, no one else really fit here.

Regardless the whole concept of "slots" is silly.

Get rid of everyone from Fire Emblem who isn't Marth. That's what I'd do.

Thank god you aren't directing because then we lose 3 unique movesets.

 

[Megadoomer]

If Sakurai would just cool it with the damn clones and Fire Emblem characters, they'd have more of a chance.

Get rid of everyone from Fire Emblem who isn't Marth. That's what I'd do. They don't need to put in a character from every single one of the past five games. It'd be like if Final Fantasy got six separate reps in Smash. Cloud, Sephiroth, Terra, Kefka, Tifa and Barrett. It'd be gross overkill.

Those situations aren't really comparable, considering that most of the Final Fantasy characters that you mentioned are from the same game.

If I had to pick one Fire Emblem character to cut (six is definitely overkill), I'd go with Roy. Marth, Ike, Robin, and Corrin offer a lot in terms of gameplay, and I can see why Lucina made it in, considering her popularity among the Fire Emblem fanbase.

It just seems like having two Marth clones on top of everything else seems like overkill, and the main justification for bringing back Roy was that he was the most popular Melee veteran... not counting the characters who made the jump to Brawl, Mewtwo, or Dr. Mario. Considering that his opposition in that category consisted of Pichu and Young Link, that seems like fairly flimsy reasoning. (then again, maybe he's more popular than I give him credit for; I'm not overly familiar with the Fire Emblem or hardcore Melee fanbases)

 

[Deleted member]

I would like to move away from clones. I saw there necessity back when the roster was smaller, but with 50+ characters adding clones for niche fanbases makes little sense to me.

Clones aren't added for the sake of adding them anymore. Brawl was the last time that was done, and it was more along the lines of "extra characters to include if there's time" (and even then, only two actually made it; Toon Link and Wolf) rather than "add more characters last minute to beef out the roster" like Melee.

We only got two new clones in Smash 4 (and a returning one in Dr. Mario), and they weren't added for the sake of adding them as clones. Hell, they weren't even planned to be separate clone characters. They were supposed to be costumes. And said costumes were given slight tweaks that made them function differently from the originals, so they were given their own spaces on the character selection screen as a result.


Really, Melee was the only time clones were an "issue" in both the number of new additions and in roster filler reasoning.

 

[FunAtParties]

Clones aren't added for the sake of adding them anymore. Brawl was the last time that was done, and it was more along the lines of "extra characters to include if there's time" (and even then, only two actually made it; Toon Link and Wolf) rather than "add more characters last minute to beef out the roster" like Melee.

We only got two new clones (and a returning one in Dr. Mario), and they weren't added for the sake of adding them as clones. Hell, they weren't even planned to be separate clone characters. They were supposed to be costumes. And said costumes were given slight tweaks that made them function differently from the originals, so they were given their own spaces on the character selection screen as a result.


Really, Melee was the only time clones were an "issue" in both the number of new additions and in roster filler.

Your entire argument just sounds like you spinning it. They were added as costumes, and upgraded for no reason other than to appease niche fanbases. The slight tweaks don't add a ton of depth to most of the clones either, they really don't serve a whole lot of purpose outside of fanservice.

Melee's clone were much more necessary, and better done imo. FIlling out the roster made sense back then, and the changes to the characters in that engine added a lot of depth, and those slight tweaks changed their playstyles entirely.

Don't get me wrong, there's a hadful of 'Luigified' clones in Smash 4 that stand out from their hosts. Characters like Luigi, Toon Link, Falco, Lucas, and Ganondorf stand far apart from the characters they derived from, but newer additions like Lucina, and Dark Pit, and some of the returning vets are still lazily done, last second (or worse DLC) choices that really have no business being there outside of making the roster bigger.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Funky Kong isn't obscure.

He's just minor.

Give him the Flame Runner and he'll be the most broken character in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Your entire argument just sounds like you spinning it. They were added as costumes, and upgraded for no reason other than to appease niche fanbases.

Stopped reading there.

Believe whatever you want.

 

[Schnee117]

Your entire argument just sounds like you spinning it. They were added as costumes, and upgraded for no reason other than to appease niche fanbases. The slight tweaks don't add a ton of depth to most of the clones either, they really don't serve a whole lot of purpose outside of fanservice.

Except the slight tweaks are the exact reason why the clones became their own thing.
The words came straight from the horse's mouth, there is literally no reason to doubt what he said.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They were added as costumes, and upgraded for no reason other than to appease niche fanbases.

They were upgraded as bonuses cause they had extra time.

Even if they were niche fanbases.

Explain to me why that's a bad thing, when it didn't take time away from anything else?

Remember, they tweaked them as much as they could before stopping. They had less time than they did in Melee.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Your entire argument just sounds like you spinning it. They were added as costumes, and upgraded for no reason other than to appease niche fanbases. The slight tweaks don't add a ton of depth to most of the clones either, they really don't serve a whole lot of purpose outside of fanservice.

You can't say someone is spinning something and then put your own spin on it.

It also implies that fanservice that doesn't negatively affect any other aspect of the game is a bad thing which is strange.

 

[Luminario]

I still feel like less people would complain about Fire Emblem characters if they branched out with the weapons instead of only generally using swords. People would probably still complain, but less.
Hey how badly do you lot think would it be received if Roy was demoted to a Marth alt along with Lucina in the next game? Like, if he was low enough priority and they didn't have enough time to create his moveset again.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Literally nothing you said in this post makes any bit of sense whatsoever.

I'm sorry that English isn't your first language. Don't worry, you'll get the hang of it.

Clones have never taken anyone's "slot"
With Melee it was those 6 or you got nothing (they had enough time for 6 clones but not one full character).
With Smash 4 they were intended to be alt costumes but differences came up in later development that justified making them separate.

The characters for Smash 4 were decided in 2012 (aside from the clones). Robin never took anyone's "slot" (well he took Chrom's due to being more unique but that's besides the main point), Lucina was a last minute clone because stuff happened in development, Roy was the only choice to fill the criteria of Melee veteran (Mewtwo was to test the waters for DLC despite also being a Melee veteran whilst Pichu and Young Link aren't as popular as him in regards to Smash) and Corrin was for promotional purposes, no one else really fit here.

Regardless the whole concept of "slots" is silly.

No it isn't. In fact it's the only logical way to make fighting games. When you make a fighting game you have a limited budget to make only so many characters, and can't justify it through the idea of "just adding DLC later" as that makes multiple assumptions about consumers: that they have an internet connection, that they're comfortable buying digital add-ons, that they have enough money to drop another $60 on add-ons, etc. So yes, there are limited slots and limited space for characters. The alternative is the notion that you have unlimited space, unlimited time and unlimited money to develop characters which isn't true at all, even for a big company like Nintendo.

Your arguments don't disprove the concept of slots, in fact you even reinforced the idea by saying that Robin took Chrom's slot. I say all these characters took slots that could've gone to more characters from more franchises.

Thank god you aren't directing because then we lose 3 unique movesets.

Uh, what? Did you even think about this? Three unique movesets for six characters is a terrible ratio. We gain more unique movesets from more having unique characters that replace them. Trading three unique movesets for six unique movesets is an amazing trade off. Your logic is backwards and makes absolutely no sense.

 

[FunAtParties]

Stopped reading there.

Believe whatever you want.

Sakurai-

"There are 3 fighters [Lucina, Dark Pit, and Doctor Mario] that are alternate models (clones) in the game. Each was originally a color variation, but during development, they were given balanced characteristics."

Wth? Sakurai said he made the characters as costumes at first and upgraded them. Why else would he do it, for ****'s and giggles?

You do you bro. Smashboards gonna smashboard.

Except the slight tweaks are the exact reason why the clones became their own thing.
The words came straight from the horse's mouth, there is literally no reason to doubt what he said.

I'm confused, do you mean he made them clones because they were naturally tweaked? I mean, Dr Mario in PM shows us this isn't really a thing, what are you getting at?

 

[Megadoomer]

Sakurai-

"There are 3 fighters [Lucina, Dark Pit, and Doctor Mario] that are alternate models (clones) in the game. Each was originally a color variation, but during development, they were given balanced characteristics."

Wth? Sakurai said he made the characters as costumes at first and upgraded them. Why else would he do it, for ****'s and giggles?

You do you bro. Smashboards gonna smashboard.

I can at least see the reasoning behind two of them - Dr. Mario gives them the opportunity to bring back Mario's Melee moveset, which gives the option for people who don't like using the FLUDD to go back to the way it was. Meanwhile, Lucina seems to serve as a more beginner-friendly Marth, since you don't need to worry about incredibly specific spacing to be effective.

Not sure about Dark Pit; I believe the justification was that it would be out-of-character for him to use the Sacred Treasures, but that seems like a stretch given that Smash Bros. has never been 100% accurate about that sort of thing.

 

[FunAtParties]

They were upgraded as bonuses cause they had extra time.

Even if they were niche fanbases.

Explain to me why that's a bad thing, when it didn't take time away from anything else?

Remember, they tweaked them as much as they could before stopping. They had less time than they did in Melee.

I didn't say it was a bad thing, I just don't like it. You can put your pitchfork down now.

I just prefer the do to other things with that time like make more costumes, I know opinions are crazy.

You can't say someone is spinning something and then put your own spin on it.

It also implies that fanservice that doesn't negatively affect any other aspect of the game is a bad thing which is strange.

When did I spin it?

Anyway, I don't think fanservice is bad, but I think there are more ways to do so then add characters, especially since it's such a touchy topic.

I can at least see the reasoning behind two of them - Dr. Mario gives them the opportunity to bring back Mario's Melee moveset, which gives the option for people who don't like using the FLUDD to go back to the way it was. Meanwhile, Lucina seems to serve as a more beginner-friendly Marth, since you don't need to worry about incredibly specific spacing to be effective.

Not sure about Dark Pit; I believe the justification was that it would be out-of-character for him to use the Sacred Treasures, but that seems like a stretch given that Smash Bros. has never been 100% accurate about that sort of thing.

My personal disdain towars Doc is because 1) he'd make a great costume and 2) I hate FLUDD, but yes I see the reasoning.

I really don't like having beginner friendly types of characters in general, I like characters to stand out on their own, but yeah that was his reasoning, so I guess I can't say much more on that.

Thanks for not killing me like the others lol.

 

[Schnee117]

No it isn't. In fact it's the only logical way to make fighting games. When you make a fighting game you have a limited budget to make only so many characters, and can't justify it through the idea of "just adding DLC later" as that makes multiple assumptions about consumers: that they have an internet connection, that they're comfortable buying digital add-ons, that they have enough money to drop another $60 on add-ons. So yes, there are limited slots and limited space for characters. The alternative is the notion that you have unlimited space, unlimited time and unlimited money to develop characters which isn't true at all, even for a big company like Nintendo.

Your arguments don't disproe the concept of slots, in fact you even reinforced the idea by saying that Robin took Chrom's slot. I say all these characters took slots that could've gone to more characters from more franchises.

Well done, you completely missed the entire point, which is that no-one had a slot taken from them (aside from Chrom) because they'd have to have had a spot on the roster in the first place.

Uh, what? Did you even think about this? Three unique movesets for six characters is a terrible ratio.

There's FOUR unique movesets from the fire Emblem cast. Marth (Lucina and Roy are derivatives), Ike, Robin and Corrin.
You elected to cut three of them.
4/6 but really it's 4/5 because Lucina is a last minute clone.

We gain more unique movesets from more having unique characters that replace them. Trading three unique movesets for six unique movesets is an amazing trade off. Your logic is backwards and makes absolutely no sense.

That's not how Smash development works, at all.
- Take three unique movesets away because you're just swapping them out for the three you cut.
- Lucina was a last minute clone and had less development time than a regular character. You now lose another moveset because it doesn't work that way.
- Roy is literally the only one where you might gain a new moveset on the assumption that they built him up entirely from scratch. But again, he was the only viable candidate for the reasoning of as to why he was a DLC character.
- You've also gained another unique moveset from seemingly nowhere at all.

All I've gotten from this is that you have no clue on how Smash development works despite Sakurai sharing a lot of insight about it.

Sakurai-

"There are 3 fighters [Lucina, Dark Pit, and Doctor Mario] that are alternate models (clones) in the game. Each was originally a color variation, but during development, they were given balanced characteristics."

Wth? Sakurai said he made the characters as costumes at first and upgraded them. Why else would he do it, for ****'s and giggles?

Also Sakurai (Same article):

Since their functionality had differences, forms were separated from each other. However, it was vital that this didn’t increase the required man-hours. Some relative tuning was sufficient as it wasn’t necessary to create balancing from scratch.

If you're gonna quote him, get the whole thing

Also from the article:

This is like a free dessert after a luxurious meal that was prepared free of charge. In a restaurant with this type of service, I don’t think there’s anybody who would say, “Change this to a meat dish!!”

Yet, I’m told [to do that] about Smash Bros. But, I guess since a lot of them are children, it cannot be helped.

Very applicable currently.

I'm confused do you mean, he made them clone because they were naturally tweaked? I mean, Dr Mario in PM shows us this isn't really a thing what are you getting at?

He made them clones because differences cropped up when developing them as alternate costumes.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Not sure about Dark Pit; I believe the justification was that it would be out-of-character for him to use the Sacred Treasures, but that seems like a stretch given that Smash Bros. has never been 100% accurate about that sort of thing.

Alph was also planned to be a possible clone but Dark Pit took less time to make so he was the final character.

Dark Pit probably would have had more differences if there was more time.

I didn't say it was a bad thing,

really have no business being there outside of making the roster bigger.

Yeah you did.

Hey how badly do you lot think would it be received if Roy was demoted to a Marth alt along with Lucina in the next game? Like, if he was low enough priority and they didn't have enough time to create his moveset again.

Pretty badly.

Adding an alt is one thing.

Demoting a character to an alt is another. People would REALLY not like that.

 

[FunAtParties]

Schnee117 , I see.

I still have no idea how those functionality differences were to occur. As I said earlier, Pm's costumes showed wholesale changes can be made to a character's look and projectiles, while still allowing them to function exactly the same. If it truly took them less time to just make a new character then make the costume work then I guess I'm wrong.

It'd be nice for a smash modder to chime in on this.

Swamp Sensei

Spoiler

Lol that spin tho. Take it the way you want bro, your mind's already made up.

If you want to know what I meant by that, it's simple, in reality they're kind of pointless. Pointless doesn't mean bad, but Sakurai himself says he includes characters to bring a unique experience. They really don't. Nor do they serve a purpose that some other character already has. Dr. Mario is kind of purposeless altogether, Lucina has Marth's kit, and Awakening is already repped by Robin, and Kid Icarus already got it's due with Pit, Palutena, those assist trophies, stages, and Palutena's guidance.

So you tell me what the point of adding them was from really any perspective?

Are them being there bad? No. But to me, and others it's not exactly good either. They're just there. To some of you it's good because you like them, and that's fine, but don't expect everyone else to be heaping praise onto them.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Wth? Sakurai said he made the characters as costumes at first and upgraded them. Why else would he do it, for ****'s and giggles?

To make the game better and make more fans happy.

EX as a fan of Dark Pit and Lucina, them being upgraded made me happy.

Logically, since it is free content that didn't detract from anything else, anyone who simply doesn't care for those characters won't lose anything. The only people who potentially might lose are people who just straight up hate one of those 2 characters, which isnt many since those 2 are popular. (Lucina much more of course)



It's always been a win-win situation at best, and win-neutral at worst. Fans gain characters. People who don't care don't lost ANYTHING since there is nothing to be lost.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Well done, you completely missed the entire point, which is that no-one had a slot taken from them (aside from Chrom) because they'd have to have had a spot on the roster in the first place.

So... you're saying that the reason they don't have a spot on the roster is because they don't have a spot on the roster.

Okay then.

There's FOUR unique movesets from the fire Emblem cast. Marth (Lucina and Roy are derivatives), Ike, Robin and Corrin.
You elected to cut three of them.
4/6 but really it's 4/5 because Lucina is a last minute clone.

That's still terrible. I'd trade that for six unique movesets in a heartbeat. It's made zero difference.

That's not how Smash development works, at all.
- Take three unique movesets away because you're just swapping them out for the three you cut.
- Lucina was a last minute clone and had less development time than a regular character. You now lose another moveset because it doesn't work that way.
- Roy is literally the only one where you might gain a new moveset on the assumption that they built him up entirely from scratch. But again, he was the only viable candidate for the reasoning of as to why he was a DLC character.
- You've also gained another unique moveset from seemingly nowhere at all.

Fine. Let's take the idea that the development time and budget given to Lucina and Roy combined is the same as having one unique character.

Alright, we get five unique characters instead of six. Still much better than what we have now.

I don't see why you're not counting the three unique movesets as part of the total. You were the one who brought up the total number of unique movesets in the first place.

 

[FunAtParties]

To make the game better and make more fans happy.

EX as a fan of Dark Pit and Lucina, them being upgraded made me happy.

Logically, since it is free content that didn't detract from anything else, anyone who simply doesn't care for those characters won't lose anything. The only people who potentially might lose are people who just straight up hate one of those 2 characters, which isnt many since those 2 are popular. (Lucina much more of course)



It's always been a win-win situation at best, and win-neutral at worst. Fans gain characters. People who don't care don't lost ANYTHING since there is nothing to be lost.

Which is what I was saying before...

I really don't understand why we're going in circles here, your reply is literally to a comment trying to defend that very point. You're pretty much agreeing with me.

 

[Megadoomer]

Fine. Let's take the idea that the development time and budget given to Lucina and Roy combined is the same as having one unique character.

Alright, we get five unique characters instead of six. Still much better than what we have now.

That's definitely not the case. Even if several clone characters were removed, it wouldn't mean that a unique character could be added in their place.

I find the amount of characters that Fire Emblem got to be excessive, to say the least, but removing everybody but Marth is going way too far in the opposite direction.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So... you're saying that the reason they don't have a spot on the roster is because they don't have a spot on the roster.

He's saying that the characters chosen took no one's spot because the spot was always theirs barring the Chrom and Robin situation.

That's still terrible. I'd trade that for six unique movesets in a heartbeat. It's made zero difference.

You wouldn't get six unique movesets.

You'd get four. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!!

The time to make a clone is a fraction of the time to make a unique character.

Roy and Lucina probably took 2/3 of the amount of time of say Robin and that's fine.

Let's take the idea that the development time and budget given to Lucina and Roy combined is the same as having one unique character.

You can't do that.

You can't take the time used to make Lucina (done at the last minute of the base game) and Roy (a DLC character) and magically put them together. That's not how development works.

It was either Lucina, Dark Pit and Doc or nothing. Roy doesn't magically get more development just because Lucina got less.

Use your brain here.

Which is what I was saying before...

I really don't understand why we're going in circles here, your reply is literally to a comment trying to defend that very point. You're pretty much agreeing with me.

Admittedly, your tone made it seem like a bad thing.

Though maybe an error in communication happened.

 

[Schnee117]

Alright, we get five unique characters instead of six. Still much better than what we have now.
.

I don't know where you're getting five characters from, unless you still assume Lucina takes as long as a unique character.
We should be getting four because Lucina's development time isn't even remotely close to that of a unique character and that's operating on the assumption that Roy was built entirely from scratch.

I don't see why you're not counting the three unique movesets as part of the total. You were the one who brought up the total number of unique movesets in the first place.

I don't count those three because they're cancelled out by you cutting three unique movesets (Ike, Robin and Corrin).

You maybe have a net gain of one, maybe net gain zero.
That's not worth cutting five characters that people like just because they're from Fire Emblem.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm sorry that English isn't your first language. Don't worry, you'll get the hang of it.

A Distant Demon
.....permission to roast?

 

[A Distant Demon]

A Distant Demon
.....permission to roast?

Just because you are a fire type doesn't mean you get to do that.


That's my job. . .well me Falkoopa, and AEM but that is another matter.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

A Distant Demon
.....permission to roast?

Golden, don't do it.

It isn't worth it.






To move discussion along, what kind of changes do you expect Smash 4 newcomers to get?

Not major moveset overhauls. Just little ones.

Things like having a different Bair then .

 

[A Distant Demon]

To move discussion along, what kind of changes do you expect Smash 4 newcomers to get?

Not major moveset overhauls. Just little ones.

Things like having a different Bair then .

I assume Lucina and Dark Pit are off the table for this matter.


I could see Roy or Lucas getting a new move or two based on DLC perhaps making them hard to really go in depth on decloning but not too much

Palutena could very well get different specials if custom moves were abandoned, and I wold hope she does.

IMO duck hunt will probably get a few changes based on how clunky a few of his moves are but maybe not new moves.

I cant think of anyone else getting changed other than maybe final smashes now that there will be mroe power in the system to do wacky things again.

 

[Arcadenik]

What about Simon Belmont from Castlevania?

I liked this post for Simon Belmont. Yes. He absolutely should be in Smash IMO. I have always been a fan of Castlevania since the NES days. I have had memories with the SNES, N64, GBA, and DS games.

If Simon gets in Smash, then I hope he brings with him a stage (probably based on the first level of the NES game), Assist Trophy (maybe SOTN version Alucard), Mii Fighter costumes like Trevor Belmont and Richter Belmont, several trophies like Shanoa and Soma Cruz, and beautiful music.

Simon Belmont is definitely my most wanted third party character.