Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Ramen Tengoku]

Dunno about you guys, but I ain’t giving up on Rhythm Heaven just yet

As much as I adore Rhythm Heaven, I don't think it's happening. We already have the final stage count. And I Feel Like Sakurai would want a stage for each Franchise. (This isn't the Melee days)

 

[pupNapoleon]

I doubt it... That Animal Crossing announcement At the end makes it feel like Isabelle was Always intented to be revealed in this direct.

They had to specify "Stay tuned until the very end." If the audience has to be told, exactly, to follow along, it is not well crafted.
And well-crafted is something I consider synonymous with Nintendo.

 

[Pakky]

As much as I adore Rhythm Heaven, I don't think it's happening. We already have the final stage count. And I Feel Like Sakurai would want a stage for each Franchise. (This isn't the Melee days)

keep hope.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I’m not really sure about Dracula, we can see in the direct that attacks hitting his body have a mist effect signifying that you can only hurt him by attacking his head just like in the Castlevania games. Maybe attacking his body only does reduced damage, but If you can only damage him by attacking his head, then his hit box is actually going to be relatively small.

It's more about movement and such, Dracula is still a big immobile boss who's every movement is telegraphed, Skull Kid on the other hand is smaller than most of the characters and would look very unnatural just standing still and not flinching while you beat the snot out of him, he would only make sense if he were to dart around the room and be highly mobile, but with such a small character that becomes a huge pain and an awful boss fight at its very core.

A boss having a weak point is no issue at all, it's very common in sidescroller games like Metroid, Mega Man, and occasionally Kirby, but having a small frame is, both thematically and in terms of gameplay. There's a reason that the smallest bosses in those games are at worst level with the protagonist, and that's usually to hammer down some sort of rivalry theme (Meta Knight, Proto Man/Robot Masters, SA-X).

As I've said before, I really don't think he'll be a boss, doesn't mean he'll be playable either mind you, but it seems like the only thought behind the idea of him being a boss is "He's a bad guy, so he must be a boss" when it isn't that simple. All of the rules about nailing the personality of a character also apply to bosses, and I just don't see it being possible with Skull Kid within Smash's framework.

 

[pupNapoleon]

As much as I adore Rhythm Heaven, I don't think it's happening. We already have the final stage count. And I Feel Like Sakurai would want a stage for each Franchise. (This isn't the Melee days)

I think Rhythm Heaven would be a DLC contribution. It could not be mistaken for 'withheld content,' and promoting it afterward puts even more of a spotlight on the RH series.

 

[Jetsurge]

But, why not a character?

Because we only have room for one unique Sonic newcomer and Eggman in his Death Egg Robot or Egg Dragoon would be a good boss fight.

 

[Zorfendor]

I now legitimately feel Isaac is in the game. I dont think that was the direct we would have gotten last week. The ending was uncharacteristically off-set.

Yeah except it was tied to the Animal Crossing Switch reveal, so that probably didn't change.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

They had to specify "Stay tuned until the very end." If the audience has to be told, exactly, to follow along, it is not well crafted.
And well-crafted is something I consider synonymous with Nintendo.

I doubt any new franchises are getting into Smash. We got the final stage count and Sakurai wouldn't want A Character without a Stage.

 

[Deleted member]

People are really making conspiracy theories that this Direct was edited in any way, huh? Ok, let's just forget the fact everything that still got shown throughout this week was still shown in the Direct(MM11 demo, Civ VI, Pokemon Let's Go trailer, etc.)

 

[Kuon]

I wasn't expecting Isabelle at all. I was expecting someone huge like Geno or Skull Kid or Banjo and Kazooie, just like mostly everybody else.

But Isabelle is huge. I mean, sure, she may have not been as highly requested or wanted, but she's honestly more appropriate as a newcomer than Geno, Skull Kid, or Banjo, being that she's the unofficial mascot of one of Nintendo's biggest series, Animal Crossing. Geno isn't really that big of a character. He was in one game from over 20 years ago. The only thing he's got going for him (aside from the fact that Sakurai wanted him in Brawl) is the fan demand. The same with Skull Kid. He played a major role in one Zelda game, and minor roles in a few other Zelda games. He's about as big as someone like Tingle or Midna. Banjo and Kazooie, again, are only big right now because of fan demand. I hope this doesn't come off as me being biased, but Isabelle makes so much more sense than they do because she's relevant and is considered a Nintendo All-Star, whereas the others are not. I apologize if this comes off as rude, but I'm just saying that Isabelle is not just some small character and definitely not a "waste of a slot", as some people claim. She's a really big deal and makes perfect sense to be in this game.

 

[Deleted member]

Who’s you’re most wanted Smash newcomers?
For me:
ANY new Zelda character
Flynn (Shin Megami Tensei)
Elma
Ryu Hayabusa
Bill Rizer (Contra)

 

[Pakky]

Because we only have room for one unique Sonic newcomer and Eggman in his Death Egg Robot or Egg Dragoon would be a good boss fight.

Says who? Really anything from Sonic like Chaos or Metal Sonic could also be a boss.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Isabelle was always meant to tie in with the AC announcement, I think that's obvious with how they set it up, it just seems weird to people because Smash wasn't actually meant to be the highlight of that announcement like we had been anticipating, AC was. Like, they didn't just whip up that Tom Nook scene in a week.

 

[LetterO]

Because we only have room for one unique Sonic newcomer and Eggman in his Death Egg Robot or Egg Dragoon would be a good boss fight.

Another fan rule begging to be disproven

 

[Jetsurge]

Who’s you’re most wanted Smash newcomers?
For me:
ANY new Zelda character
Flynn (Shin Megami Tensei)
Elma
Ryu Hayabusa
Bill Rizer (Contra)

Banjo Kazooie
Skull Kid
Geno
Tails
Dixie Kong

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Chaos Powers. Make it happen.

Personally, I'd prefer Tails.

To think that these are some of Ultimate's newcomers. What a contrast.

Two scaly, decayed looking monsters with cruel smiles, two muscular vampire hunters with serious expressions... and one smiling, cute puppy. Just absolutely perfect.

What's with smash fans and their slight hatred towards anything cute or feminine lol

Because some people are unreasonable.

I made my favorite part of the reveal trailer into a gif so I figured I'd share it. I'm sure there's a ton of meme potential to be had here.

Sonic Sez: Always obey the traffic signs, otherwise you can cause an accident. And that's no good.

Sidenote, can I just say how nice it is to have a non-humanoid female character, having a little bit of diversity among the female cast is really nice, adding Dixie would also help in this regard imo.

I was thinking the same thing. She also adds diversity to the female cast in terms of body structure.

Honestly Isabelle's command grab is the most exciting part of her moveset for me.

Her stop sign is my favourite move.

Didn't say it earlier, but I'm so glad Sakurai doesn't ignore new stars of Nintendo.

And people thought they were only going to focus on older characters.

And a Dr Eggman boss. He'll either be in Death Egg Robot from Sonic 2 or the Egg Dragoon from Unleashed.

I say go truly old-school and have him in his Egg Mobile with his wrecking ball.

 

[Deleted member]

I have a feeling that there will be a Pokemon Direct in early November or late October. It'll probably focus on detailing Pokemon Let's Go P/E more fully, updates to the Pokebank, as well as Integration with and new changes to Pokemon Go. Once Let's Go is released, they'll probably be able to give the first bit of information regarding Generation 8 of the mainline Pokemon games and how it'll be the first to be on a main console rather than portable (even though Switch is technically both). They'll probably play that up a bit, then finish the direct with the Pokemon Sun/Moon rep(s) for Smash Brothers Ultimate.

This direct could also come late October since it would only be a few weeks before Let's Go releases and would be a suitable holdover until November as far as Smash goes. With the reveal of only 1 newcomer this month and if they were to do a Pokemon Direct in October and reveal, again, only 1 newcomer, that would leave November to be another Smash-focused direct (to explain Spirits to us as well as many other things) and give another large amount of characters to be revealed; likely the last batch of newcomers unless they want to 'surprise' us with one final reveal in a trailer before the actual release date in December.

 

[MainJPW]

I don't typically humor the DBZ speculation for Smash.
But tbh if we were to get one I'd think we'd get Yamcha.
Simply because he'd be at a more "even" playing field than the others.

The shade constantly thrown at Yamcha is unbelievable. There are characters in Smash with better feats than Z-era characters anyway.

Creating a universe > planet busting. Defeating a Time buster > planet busting.

And apparently, Kirby is "infinite", so he can "infinitely" defeat a Dragon Ball character. It isn't until you get to Super where you start getting universal/multiversal characters like Beerus or Zeno and reality warping hax beings like Grand Priest.

But, why not a character?

We had a hard enough time getting first party villains in Smash.

 

[Kuon]

You joke, but...

Homura confirmed

Oh boy, oh my, as cool as that would be, because she is pretty awesome... If she gets in, he may as well put any non-videogame character in

 

[Jetsurge]

Another fan theory begging to be disproven

I'd love to be wrong and get both Tails and Eggman as unique newcomers. "You know what they say! The more the merrier!"

 

[Pakky]

We had a hard enough time getting first party villains in Smash.

All I'm saying is to keep one's self open. We don't know what's ahead.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Isabelle was always meant to tie in with the AC announcement, I think that's obvious with how they set it up, it just seems weird to people because Smash wasn't actually meant to be the highlight of that announcement like we had been gearing up to, AC was. Like, they didn't just whip up that Tom Nook scene in a week.

Yes, they were supposed to play off of each other. But were they supposed to be back to back? I doubt it.
There was an uncomfortably long break between the announcements. The level of sameness between the two pieces was off putting to anyone not a fan of the series. And lets not forget that we had to be told to watch until the end. *That is not the well crafted technique of Nintendo.

 

[Aurane]

>there's a new poll
>Isabellicious

its better than the other option but still

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Who’s you’re most wanted Smash newcomers?
For me:
ANY new Zelda character
Flynn (Shin Megami Tensei)
Elma
Ryu Hayabusa
Bill Rizer (Contra)

Any Rhythm Heaven Character
Elma
Bandanna Waddle Dee
Incineroar
Crash Bandicoot
Min Min

 

[WaxPython]

Only played animal crossing on the DS and this guy called mr resetti made sure I never touched the series again.

I'll just never understand the appeal of real life simulator video games.

 

[MainJPW]

Personally, I'd prefer Tails.

I want Tails more than Shadow. I'd actually prefer a Shadow echo and a Semi-clone Tails...or just Tails.

I was just saying IF they semi-cloned Shadow might as well throw that stuff in.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Yes, they were supposed to play off of each other. But were they supposed to be back to back? I doubt it.
There was an uncomfortably long break between the announcements. The level of sameness between the two pieces was off putting to anyone not a fan of the series. And lets not forget that we had to be told to watch until the end. *That is not the well crafted technique of Nintendo.

Tom Nook is literally watching Isabelle's trailer and talking about her having just gotten into Smash, it straight up wouldn't make sense for them to be seperated. The break in between the trailer and Tom Nook scene isn't even very long.

 

[Heracr055]

Who’s you’re most wanted Smash newcomers?
For me:
ANY new Zelda character
Flynn (Shin Megami Tensei)
Elma
Ryu Hayabusa
Bill Rizer (Contra)

Just Shantae or Lusamine.
Or just Monika

Edit: I think we have 5 characters left (combination of newcomers+echoes)

 

[Frizz]

But Isabelle is huge. I mean, sure, she may have not been as highly requested or wanted, but she's honestly more appropriate as a newcomer than Geno, Skull Kid, or Banjo, being that she's the unofficial mascot of one of Nintendo's biggest series, Animal Crossing. Geno isn't really that big of a character. He was in one game from over 20 years ago. The only thing he's got going for him (aside from the fact that Sakurai wanted him in Brawl) is the fan demand. The same with Skull Kid. He played a major role in one Zelda game, and minor roles in a few other Zelda games. He's about as big as someone like Tingle or Midna. Banjo and Kazooie, again, are only big right now because of fan demand. I hope this doesn't come off as me being biased, but Isabelle makes so much more sense than they do because she's relevant and is considered a Nintendo All-Star, whereas the others are not. I apologize if this comes off as rude, but I'm just saying that Isabelle is not just some small character and definitely not a "waste of a slot", as some people claim. She's a really big deal and makes perfect sense to be in this game.

I wholeheartedly agree. It's not like I despise Isabelle for getting in the game or anything, I'm actually glad that she's in. She just wasn't at the top of my list of most likely newcomers, since it was pretty clear that with Ridley and K. Rool that Smash Ultimate was taking a more fan demand approach to things. Isabelle's made numerous further appearances since her debut in New Leaf, such as Animal Crossing Pocket Camp and Amiibo Festival, so she definitely has the right to be in Smash and she definitely fits in much more well when compared to some of the other characters on the roster.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I want Tails more than Shadow. I'd actually prefer a Shadow echo and a Semi-clone Tails...or just Tails.

I was just saying IF they semi-cloned Shadow might as well throw that stuff in.

I don't think its impossible to see a unique Tails and a clone Shadow.
What is weird to me is having so much Castlevania without getting more Sonic.

 

[Kuon]

>there's a new poll
>Isabellicious
View attachment 164130
its better than the other option but still

Eh, it's vague. But I don't mind, because Isabelle was the second most hyped Smash Ultimate reveal for me thus far (the most hyped being the E3 reveal)

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

It's more about movement and such, Dracula is still a big immobile boss who's every movement is telegraphed, Skull Kid on the other hand is smaller than most of the characters and would look very unnatural just standing still and not flinching while you beat the snot out of him, he would only make sense if he were to dart around the room and be highly mobile, but with such a small character that becomes a huge pain and an awful boss fight at its very core.

A boss having a weak point is no issue at all, it's very common in sidescroller games like Metroid, Mega Man, and occasionally Kirby, but having a small frame is, both thematically and in terms of gameplay. There's a reason that the smallest bosses in those games are at worst level with the protagonist, and that's usually to hammer down some sort of rivalry theme (Meta Knight, Proto Man/Robot Masters, SA-X).

As I've said before, I really don't think he'll be a boss, doesn't mean he'll be playable either mind you, but it seems like the only thought behind the idea of him being a boss is "He's a bad guy, so he must be a boss" when it isn't that simple. All of the rules about nailing the personality of a character also apply to bosses, and I just don't see it being possible with Skull Kid within Smash's framework.

I agree, I don’t think Skullkid is going to be a boss either, I was mainly pointing out that at least with Dracula, the boss fight seem to be more dynamic than before, having weak points and transformations.

Spreaking of weak points and transformations, I’d love it if we got Metal Gear REX as a boss battle, we already have an in-game model for it. You would first have to destroy the radar dish to force the pilot to open up the cockpit, who would be none other than Liquid Snake! Then the New weak point would be the opened cockpit, just like in actual metal gear boss fight. All the while dodging lasers, missiles, and giant stomps from the mech.

 

[Cosmic77]

Yes, they were supposed to play off of each other. But were they supposed to be back to back? I doubt it.
There was an uncomfortably long break between the announcements. The level of sameness between the two pieces was off putting to anyone not a fan of the series. And lets not forget that we had to be told to watch until the end. *That is not the well crafted technique of Nintendo.

Seemed pretty normal to me. Nintendo is notorious for saving big announcements till the very end of a Direct, and the announcement of a new AC fits that bill.

(Edit: Oh, you're talking about the gap between Nook and the official AC reveal? Seemed to be an intentional tie-in. Why else would Tom Nook mention that he has to build new homes for his friends?)

 

[pupNapoleon]

Tom Nook is literally watching Isabelle's trailer and talking about her having just gotten into Smash, it straight up wouldn't make sense for them to be seperated. The break in between the trailer and Tom Nook scene isn't even very long.

Post. Credit. Scene. But I will watch again just to confirm.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I now legitimately feel Isaac is in the game. I dont think that was the direct we would have gotten last week. The ending was uncharacteristically off-set.

While it does make sense that a reveal with a geomancer may involve earthquakes, and that would be insensitive given the timing, I don’t know whether an Isaac reveal at this time would have been the best idea for Nintendo in the first place.

As popular as Isaac (and Banjo, and the puppet) are, they are on the whole very obscure characters from long dead games whose popularity derives almost solely from the Smash fanbase. Nintendo knows that Smash is their big game of the year, but after it took over the E3 direct (and was even the most memorable part of the March direct), non-fans are getting annoyed at it taking over.

The only way it would have made sense to reveal one of those characters in a general direct would be if a rerelease or reboot of that game was inbound. Otherwise, a more well-known reveal would always have been more likely. Isaac and co. would be a better reveal for a Smash direct - similar to K. Rool’s - it would generate the maximum hype for the proper audience, and not leave the general fanbase confused with a “literally who.”

We’ve definitely been spoiled by having a Smash direct already and getting the majority of the E3 direct.

 

[Deleted member]

I definetly think the Isabelle is worthy of being in Smash, I just think a whole lot of people (myself shamefully included) just feel into the same trap seemingly every Smash fan sees to fall into: letting the hype go to their head.

 

[pupNapoleon]

While it does make sense that a reveal with a geomancer may involve earthquakes, and that would be insensitive given the timing, I don’t know whether an Isaac reveal at this time would have been the best idea for Nintendo in the first place.

As popular as Isaac (and Banjo, and the puppet) are, they are on the whole very obscure characters from long dead games whose popularity derives almost solely from the Smash fanbase. Nintendo knows that Smash is their big game of the year, but after it took over the E3 direct (and was even the most memorable part of the March direct), non-fans are getting annoyed at it taking over.

The only way it would have made sense to reveal one of those characters in a general direct would be if a rerelease or reboot of that game was inbound. Otherwise, a more well-known reveal would always have been more likely. Isaac and co. would be a better reveal for a Smash direct - similar to K. Rool’s - it would generate the maximum hype for the proper audience, and not leave the general fanbase confused with a “literally who.”

We’ve definitely been spoiled by having a Smash direct already and getting the majority of the E3 direct.

I was angry with the that thought about Isaac when it was stated, it seemed incredibly insensitive.
But the more I consider it the harder it is for me to distance myself. That direct ended in a notoriously unpolished manner.

 

[Pakky]

I want Tails more than Shadow. I'd actually prefer a Shadow echo and a Semi-clone Tails...or just Tails.

I was just saying IF they semi-cloned Shadow might as well throw that stuff in.

Shadow is significant, BUT Tails and Eggman just matter more.

Like at this point if Sonic got 4 reps it wouldn't even be weird.

 

[Kuon]

I wholeheartedly agree. It's not like I despise Isabelle for getting in the game or anything, I'm actually glad that she's in. She just wasn't at the top of my list of most likely newcomers, since it was pretty clear that with Ridley and K. Rool that Smash Ultimate was taking a more fan demand approach to things. Isabelle's made numerous further appearances since her debut in New Leaf, such as Animal Crossing Pocket Camp and Amiibo Festival, so she definitely has the right to be in Smash and she definitely fits in much more well when compared to some of the other characters on the roster.

And that's fine. Everyone has their wants, but I'm glad we agree that she's an important character and makes sense to be in the game (I don't like to use the term 'deserves', so I'll instead say it 'makes sense' for her inclusion)

 

[pupNapoleon]

I definetly think the Isabelle is worthy of being in Smash, I just think a whole lot of people (myself shamefully included) just feel into the same trap seemingly every Smash fan sees to fall into: letting the hype go to their head.

Isabelle. It feels to me more like a checkmark on a necessary list. Which is how Ridley, K Rool, and Inkling were, but this one was just a smirk to me.
Animal Crossing is a feel-good game. I'm happy to see the playable puppy.
Also, of course. She is our second Dog character!
I want more. I want so. Many. More.


Aroof!