Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Danpal65]

Here, I'll write a little thing. A little thing about absence:

Spoiler

Most of what we're basing current newcomer speculation on is absense. Shadow is absent, therefore, he may be likely. Isabelle is absent, therefore, she seems likely. Skull Kid is absent, therefore he seems likely. This can be said about many, many characters.
However, present absense isn't always indicative of future inclusion, and that's a very worrying thing. Especially when it's the only thing you're able to base hope on. The complete lack of something can simply remain like that. Isaac was absent from Smash 4, and people thought this was telling of his inclusion, but he remained absent. The same can be said for Waddle Dee, or many, many fighters.

I doubt we'll see all the characters that are being speculated on. Absence isn't concrete. Even things that seem incredibly glaring. Sakurai may have wanted Knuckles over Shadow for the simple reason that Knuckles has more of a presence in Sonic. They may have decided the moon itself was better representation than Skull Kid. Isaac may not be viewed as relevant anymore.

Speculation can be difficult, especially when based on something so unsubstantial as a lacking, or an expectation, or a demand. And there's so many characters that seem likely, and the truth is not all of them may make it. Ashley was missing, and then she wasn't, and the same could happen to any of the characters we're speculating about.

But then again, there is a bit of hope to hold on to. Dark Samus and Chrom both because top contenders because things were missing, and they became characters. So I think it may be something to look into, but not too far.

With that out of the way, I'll talk about who I think may be likely, trying to base it on sheer "evidence" alone.

Unique Fighters:
Skull Kid

Spoiler: Skull Kid Reasoning

Is this one obvious? I won't really be adressing the villains theme right now, because it's likely a nonissue, but I can't deny that replacing Skull Kid with the Moon is a little suspicious. However, he seems a little uncertain right now, and I'm not sure where he'll end up at this point. I could see him as playable, or maybe a boss, or just a cameo or other form of representation that would require him not to be an AT. I'd like to see him playable, and I think he'd be a good fit, which is why I'm including him here.

Bandana Dee

Spoiler: Bandana Reasoning

Bandana Waddle Dee is a character that missed out on Smash 4. He was popular, sure, but not popular enough to even get a trophy. But his popularity has only increased, and so has his chances for this Smash. During the 8.8 Direct, we see a lot of Assist Trophies. The two that I'm going to talk about being Klaptrap and Kawasaki. Now, these both seem like they correspond with popular series that have had long-requested fighter additions. But my point being, K. Rool got in. I feel like these were almost insurance, things stopping K. Rool, and Bandana Waddle Dee, from being Assist Trophies. They aren't necessarily replacements, but almost pre-replacements. ATs that go along with the fighters.
And there's also the point of Dedede's final smash, being the Masked Dedede cage fight. Now, the only one in the audience for this fight in its souce material, Kirby Super Star Ultra, was Bandana Waddle Dee. And he's unmistakably not there in Smash. This wouldn't be too big of an issue (I get it, it's a dark stage fight, there wasn't timing for Dee to be included) BUT, This game in particular, Sakurai has been diligent about the inclusion in cameos in Final Smashes. Ness, Lucas, Mega Man, Shulk, Fox, Falco, presumedly Wolf, and even the Ice Climbers got cameos in their Final Smashes. So Dee's absense is rather glaring.

Isaac

Spoiler: Isaac Reasoning

So that little twitter image was cute, no? The one with the heroes fighting Rathalos. Apparently, that's a Golden Sun reference, which I don't understand why. I've never played golden sun, so i'll have to take everyone's word for it. But yeah, that's a big hint to me right there. Also, Isaac had a MASSIVE following on fanpolls for the ballot. He was everywhere, so it's undeniable that he's seen as someone who is heavily requested. These aren't necessarily new reasons, and I'm sure there's more, but I could see Isaac being in, definitely.

Echo Fighters:
Isabelle

Spoiler: Isabelle Reasoning

This one is a bit obvious, no? Even without Vergeben's intervention, I would've guessed Isabelle anyways. Replacing Animal Crossing's new golden girl with Kapp'n seems a little suspicious to me, and I don't see why they wouldn't have shown her off by now. My only thing at this point is whether she'll be an Echo or not. I could really see it going either way, and Animal Crossing could certainly use two unique fighters, but everyone seems to be saying echo, so that's where I put her for now.

Shadow

Spoiler: Shadow Reasoning

Time for edge! Shadow is one I'm less confident about, but everyone seems to view him as a lock. Sure, he could be a decent echo, but I feel like he might be one who was just replaced. Knuckles is a better choice for an assist trophy, considering he's a bit more relevant to the Sonic series than Shadow is, but I'd like to see Shadow nevertheless, if not for the absurd edginess he exudes.

Notable Exemptions:
A Pokemon

Spoiler: Pokemon Reasoning

The only reason people think we're getting a Pokemon is because we've always gotten one, but I don't know if this'll be the case. I don't think I can quantify past preformance as indicative of future results in this case. We might get one, but I don't know which or when.

Geno

Spoiler: Geno Reasoning

Geno. This character is an enigma to me. I know barely anything about him. I don't know why he's not in any Mario games besides the RPG, I don't know why he's not Mario property (or if he'll be counted as a Mario character in Smash), and I don't know if Square Enix cares about him. At all. In fact, I feel like the only time anyone's talked about this character in the last decade is due to Sakurai. So will Geno be in the game? Nothing is leading me to believe so. Will Geno not be in the game? I have no idea. I don't even know what he'd do. I don't hate his design, certainly.

There are a few other ones I failed to mention that are names commonly thrown around. Some leaker's character of the week. Some third parties here and there. Third parties I find incredibly hard to predict because there's no baseline for how their series would be represented in Smash, because it isn't. I can't say a lot about it. I didn't talk about Dixie Kong because I really feel like she could go either way. Impa is like that too, despite me really wanting her. I probably don't have a lot of opinion on a character I didn't talk about. Unless it's Rex and Pyra. Don't even get me started.

Hey fellow Palmer!

You mentioned Rex & Pyra, which sounds like a crazy can of worms for you, but how about Elma? Feel she might be really feeling it in Ultimate?

 

[blackghost]

I'll try it too.

Tails for Smash, Lloyd for Smash.

Don't let me down leakers.

tails for smash AND tales for smash seems legit.

back when people discussed bayo and snake violence with the kratos violence, i think there is is a clear distinction. Bayonetta violence to me came of as over the top ridiculousness (much like the rest of her) in contrast kratos violence for much of his existence WAS his entire character. I think of kratos as the guy ripping off heads, tearing off limbs, and his grotesque kills against innocent characters and sometimes normal people. Snake and Bayonetta dont have that. Someone posted a video of all bayonetta tortore attacks, i wouldnt even feel comfortable putting a video of kratos violence here. While all three characters are violent i dont think bayonetta or snake were defined soley by their violence. Just the difference i personally see with kratos vs the other two.
Kratos to me has a similair problem MK has to ever get consideration in short. You can be a gaming icon known for a single thing to most people and that can get you removed from consideration. When capcom wanted to cross street fighter with another franchise they choose tekken a game that isnt even 2-d over mk. i think that speaks volumes.

 

[potato69]

I swear to god even if we don't get a RH rep, we at least need some of that sweet soundtrack added to the game. And by that I also mean some NEW ARRANGEMENTS. That alone would be the selling point for me.

I NEED SAMURAI SLICE MEDLEY AND KARATE MAN MEDLEY PLEASE SAKURAI

Smash 4 really dropped the ball on this. Only 2 songs on Miiverse of all stages is absolutely criminal.
GIVE US THE RH WE DESERVE, NINTENDO

 

[Momotsuki]

Ask and you shall receive. Took me 2 min... maybe it's not blurry enough

Spoiler

View attachment 162527

Pack it up, boys. No leak can top this one.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Before the group came along, we used to have a thread for Smash 4 that was dedicated entirely to leaks and rumors. So in speculation and social threads we'd only ever be talking about very special leaks or rumors; the leak that ultimately revealed the entire base roster comes to mind.

IIRC though, that thread eventually got locked because it unfortunately just got out of hand later on. I think the group that succeeded it eventually ended up meeting a similar fate, as well. Correct me if I'm wrong in either case.

Was a member of that thread. Those were the days.

We all were mad at each other.
All the time.

It got a bit personal (especially with my dumb self, I was a bratty little kid)

Pretty much what Luigi said. I too was a member, but I was much younger and childish (Sm4sh speculation took place my freshman year of High School, now I'm in my freshman year of College). I'd just come off of GameFAQs as well, so that didn't help.

There was a lot of elitism as the group was through invite only (or something like that), and lots of bitter arguments about the big bois (Gematsu, Ninka/Vaanrose, Tower of Smash). There was also a lot of blind trust in certain leaks because they had certain characters, something even I bought into at the time (thankfully I bought into Ninka/Vaanrose though), and discrediting of certain leaks because they lacked certain characters. I know that happens here, but at least the majority agrees that that's not logical. Back then, we didn't have that, so there were lots of fandom disputes as well.

When Ninka/Vaanrose got big we were there as it all unfolded (as both Ninka and Vaanrose are Smashboards members, and all official statements were made on Smashboards), and we had GameFAQs, 4chan, and Reddit breathing down our necks. That wasn't fun. And when the ESRB leak came out...hoo boy. Everyone went crazy. This was all back when the "character slot" theory was still a dominant force in speculation, so characters like Dark Pit, Duck Hunt, and Bowser Jr. were widely hated for being in over other, more popular characters.

I personally have a lot of good memories of my time there, and one of the reasons I started archiving "leaks" is because I wanted to bring the spirit of those discussions here, which I've hopefully done in a positive way. That being said, I completely understand why they didn't opt to do it again this speculation cycle, and agree with that decision.

 

[Slavic]

is this rhythm heaven??

or rhythm hell???

 

[potato69]

Ask and you shall receive. Took me 2 min... maybe it's not blurry enough

Spoiler

View attachment 162527

I just got reminded of when people believed claims of a chunky kong assist trophy in the smash 4 demo. those were wild times.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

If we get Rhythm Heaven music we HAVE to get this ****in' banger.

I find it really funny that the person who has all of these songs on Youtube is SilvaGunner of all people. I forgot he used to upload actual OSTs.

 

[Luigi The President]

Is that the title of the new game or something? It's a bit bold but i feel like it's warranted after sticker star

Spoiler

I personally don't see it, but then again I've never played a paper mario game. I know he's requested, but I really don't even know to what degree. I know he has fans, though, so that'd be good for them.

If you don't mind...it's late...can I give you a small school in his status as of right now...ok thank you if you read...

Yeah he's been quite well requested during and since the Ballot. In most fanpolls he'd make top 10, and in a wide variety top 5. In the SSB4Dojo compilation of 44K+ votes, he again made top 10. In a recent fanpoll of over 20K votes of who people wanted in Ultimate (on Twitter), Paper Mario placed 12th.

His requests have died down a bit since Paper Mario hasn't had a critical hit game for a long long time, but his support in 2015 was quite, quite heavy, which is IMO what actually matters since the roster was decided in 2015.

Thank you for your time...!!

 

[Idon]

If we get Rhythm Heaven music we HAVE to get this ****in' banger.

I find it really funny that the person who has all of these songs on Youtube is SilvaGunner of all people. I forgot he used to upload actual OSTs.

Nah there's 2 guys.

Siivagunner with a 2nd i capitalized, the parody guy,
And Silvagunner, the regular OST guy.

 

[WallyPalmer]

Hey fellow Palmer!

You mentioned Rex & Pyra, which sounds like a crazy can of worms for you, but how about Elma? Feel she might be really feeling it in Ultimate?

Yah Elma's chill. Nothing against Xenoblade. Just the two toddlers running around in their underwear.

 

[Luigi The President]

Pretty much what Luigi said. I too was a member, but I was much younger and childish (Sm4sh speculation took place my freshman year of High School, now I'm in my freshman year of College). I'd just come off of GameFAQs as well, so that didn't help.

There was a lot of elitism, and lots of bitter arguments about the big bois (Gematsu, Ninka/Vaanrose, Tower of Smash). There was also a lot of blind trust in certain leaks because they had certain characters, something even I bought into at the time (thankfully I bought into Ninka/Vaanrose though), and discrediting of certain leaks because they lacked certain characters. I know that happens here, but at least the majority agrees that that's not logical. Back then, we didn't have that, so there were lots of fandom disputes as well.

When Ninka/Vaanrose got big we were the first group to receive it (as both Ninka and Vaanrose are Smashboards members), and we had GameFAQs, 4chan, and Reddit breathing down our necks. That wasn't fun. And when the ESRB leak came out...hoo boy. Everyone went crazy. This was all back when the "character slot" theory was still a dominant force in speculation, so characters like Dark Pit, Duck Hunt, and Bowser Jr. were widely hated for being in over other, more popular characters.

I personally have a lot of good memories of my time there, and one of the reasons I started archiving "leaks" is because I wanted to bring the spirit of those discussions here, which I've hopefully done in a positive way. That being said, I completely understand why they didn't opt to do it again this speculation cycle, and agree with that decision.

Tower of Smash, damn those were the days...
Yeah, Ninka/Vanroose was always something. And don't even get me started on the ESRB leak.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't have some good memories of it though, and good acquaintances.

 

[blazefan519]

If we get Rhythm Heaven music we HAVE to get this ****in' banger.

I find it really funny that the person who has all of these songs on Youtube is SilvaGunner of all people. I forgot he used to upload actual OSTs.

Ah I see you are a man of culture as well. But real talk, if we get Karate Joe, we have to have this play in the background.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz3MmAvOhOQ
I'd be lying if I said that I wouldn't sing along with this.

 

[hazza5557]

Has anything happened in the last 8 hours?

 

[Shroob]

We talking Chorus Kids again?

It wouldn't surprise me if Sakurai went back to salvage them.


I mean, he got Chrom in.


In Etika's own words(Surprisingly)

"ONLY ONE MISSIN' NOW IS DA CHORUS KIDS"

 

[7982Brick]

We talking Chorus Kids again?

It wouldn't surprise me if Sakurai went back to salvage them.


I mean, he got Chrom in.


In Etika's own words(Surprisingly)

"ONLY ONE MISSIN' NOW IS DA CHORUS KIDS"

Well judging by this leak looks like he skipped chorus kids and went straight to karate Joe. Which sucks since I prefer the chorus kids but I'm sure this leak is fake.

 

[nintenplayer]

If we get Rhythm Heaven music we HAVE to get this ****in' banger.

I find it really funny that the person who has all of these songs on Youtube is SilvaGunner of all people. I forgot he used to upload actual OSTs.

*In Plankton's voice* YES!!!

We also need Remix 5 from Silver, that one is AWESOME!
And as far as regular minigames go, other than Samurai Slice medley and Karate Man medley I mentioned earlier, we need;

A jazzy remix of Monkey Watch
A rock remix of See-Saw
And an orchestra remix of Blue Birds
As well as Tap Trial, Ringside, Air Rally, Rhythm Rally, Lockstep... THE LIST CAN GO ON FOREVER

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Pack it up, boys. No leak can top this one.

Just a last one...

Here's one for you Idon . I think this one is blurry enough

Spoiler

 

[potato69]

Well judging by this leak looks like he skipped chorus kids and went straight to karate Joe. Which sucks since I prefer the chorus kids but I'm sure this leak is fake.

I wouldn't be so quick to believe a "leak" that implies Nintendo is working on Smash Ultimate with computers from the late 90s

 

[7982Brick]

I wouldn't be so quick to believe a "leak" that implies Nintendo is working on Smash Ultimate with computers from the late 90s

I know which is why I said that ”I'm sure it's fake”.

 

[LetterO]

The song we deserve in this game.

best RH song fight me

respectfully disagreed

 

[Deleted member]

Just a last one...

Here's one for you Idon . I think this one is blurry enough

Spoiler

View attachment 162528

Will you be the first to give an image leak for Gengar?

 

[potato69]

respectfully disagreed

Ah yes, my second favorite RH song child. Hopefully we get every vocal track from RH.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Will you be the first to give an image leak for Gengar?

I have nothing better to do in the moment so... yeah give me about 5 min

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Tower of Smash, damn those were the days...
Yeah, Ninka/Vanroose was always something. And don't even get me started on the ESRB leak.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't have some good memories of it though, and good acquaintances.

The Leak Group was how I met most of the people I know in this thread, like Swamp, BluePikmin, You, Vaanrose, Rie Sonomura, etc. I liked it because everyone was so accepting of me after I got rudely banned from GameFAQs for an error from their website (If any GameFAQs mods/admins are reading this, can I at least speak to you guys about unbanning my account? It's inconvenient not being able to post).

I remember meeting Pushdustin before he was an admin and before he created SourceGaming. Dude was one of our top leakbusters back then, as he was one of the only people who had access to and could translate Sakurai interviews and Japanese media (this is before SourceGaming came along and made all of the translated material widely available).

Oh how time flies.

 

[Chrono.]

Well, so far no one has been able to disprove the Karate Joe leak.

 

[Luigi The President]

The Leak Group was how I met most of the people I know in this thread, like Swamp, BluePikmin, You, Vaanrose, Rie Sonomura, etc. I liked it because everyone was so accepting of me after I got rudely banned from GameFAQs for an error from their website (If any GameFAQs mods/admins are reading this, can I at least speak to you guys about unbanning my account? It's inconvenient not being able to post

I remember meeting Pushdustin before he was an admin and before he created SourceGaming. Dude was one of our top leakbusters back then, as he was one of the only people who had access to and could translate Sakurai interviews and Japanese media (this is before SourceGaming came along and made all of the translated material widely available).

Oh how time flies.

Oh yeah Dustin was ALWAYS in it.
It feels like I knew a celebrity before he took off! Was an incredibly nice dude even to my rude jerk young self.

I remember not too many of our leakbusters, but I know every leak would be busted much quicker if Burb was here.

 

[Danpal65]

Well, so far no one has been able to disprove the Karate Joe leak.

There’s a karate joe rumour?

 

[Chrono.]

There’s a karate joe rumour?

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/430751563

This thing.

 

[Shroob]

If we DO get Karate Joe, I have a hard time imagining the trailer living up to this glorious creation.

 

[Idon]

Just a last one...

Here's one for you Idon . I think this one is blurry enough

Spoiler

View attachment 162528

Don't do this to me.

 

[Flynn__]

Well, so far no one has been able to disprove the Karate Joe leak.

Calling that a leak is a stretch, though.

 

[Danpal65]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/430751563

This thing.

So we’re expected to believe Nintendo is continuing to use Windows 98? Looks just as fake as any of the other pieces of nonsense floating around (which is to say very).

 

[Chrono.]

Calling that a leak is a stretch, though.

It's a habit at this point lol.

 

[Nethermoosen]

If you don't mind...it's late...can I give you a small school in his status as of right now...ok thank you if you read...

Yeah he's been quite well requested during and since the Ballot. In most fanpolls he'd make top 10, and in a wide variety top 5. In the SSB4Dojo compilation of 44K+ votes, he again made top 10. In a recent fanpoll of over 20K votes of who people wanted in Ultimate (on Twitter), Paper Mario placed 12th.

His requests have died down a bit since Paper Mario hasn't had a critical hit game for a long long time, but his support in 2015 was quite, quite heavy, which is IMO what actually matters since the roster was decided in 2015.

Thank you for your time...!!

Guess you missed the 20,000 voter Japan poll where he got 13th.

 

[Chrono.]

So we’re expected to believe Nintendo is continuing to use Windows 98? Looks just as fake as any of the other pieces of nonsense floating around (which is to say very).

Yeah I don't particularly believe it, but it's an unique one at the very least.

Don't think anyone has tried to make a leak based off the files meant for the blog.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Will you be the first to give an image leak for Gengar?

There you go, another blurry leak just for you I even added a little surprise for Luigi The President .

Spoiler

 

[Shroob]

Oh that's right.


This is most likely completely unrelated, but...


In regards to the Karate Joe leak, some user on le leddit earlier today from the UK posted that "Rhythm Paradise" appeared in the selectable series icons for them on the righthand sidebar on the side, and they even provided a screenshot.


No one else saw it though, and that ****'s easy to fake so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Luigi The President]

Guess you missed the 20,000 voter Japan poll where he got 13th.

That's the one I meant where he placed 12th, my bad, it was 13th.
That's the poll tho!

 

[Chrono.]

Oh that's right.


This is most likely completely unrelated, but...


In regards to the Karate Joe leak, some user on le leddit earlier today from the UK posted that "Rhythm Paradise" appeared in the selectable series icons for them on the righthand sidebar on the side, and they even provided a screenshot.


No one else saw it though, and that ****'s easy to fake so take it with a grain of salt.

Do you have that screenshot?